When was the last time Apple did an OS update with the phrase "rock-solid" embedded in the installer graphics; 2004?, 2006?
They need to do that again.
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Yosemite looks terrible!
- Thread starter OldGuyTom
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They need to do that again.
For me, 10.9.0 was pretty much "rock solid".
It is clear that the laws of software development even apply to Apple. The quality is going to suffer first if features, delivery date and resources aren't balanced right.
Apple has Cheapen the Look
I think that Apple has cheapen the look of its operating system with Yosemite!!
I think that Apple has cheapen the look of its operating system with Yosemite!!
I think that's a good reason why he was asking for non-Windows suggestions.
As an Apple user since the 80's myself, I have to say I despise Windows which I also have to use but Yosemite and iOS7 and iOS8 are really making me consider what other options I have as well.
And that's too bad because for all 3 of them I love the features and what they can DO. I just can't say enough times how much I hate the way it looks. There's no reason our OS's should look like they were designed by a 12 year old girl taking a break from drawing barbies and unicorns. Ive needs to stop with the bright colors and pastels! If I want that I'll go buy a Lite-Brite to play with!
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I didn't use the word "hate" in regards to the poll results. Thus, you clearly seem to enjoy making things up. I can conclude that the remaining 80% don't neccessaritly prefer either one. Thus, one CAN conclude that Yosemite is not a huge "improvement" or people WOULD prefer it. Your job seems to be to make people think everyone likes Yosemite's GUI. My point is that they simply should not have changed it. There was nothing wrong with the looks of Mavericks. Change just for change's sake is pointless, IMO.
Yes, I do happen to dislike the "cartoonish" look of Yosemite. This is 100% Johnny Ive's doing. It looks similar to iOS7 and 8. Scott Forestall is responsible for iOS6 and earlier. It is clear to me that my tastes are in line with Scott's vision, not Johnny's vision. OS X created a "new" look back at the start of the century that was different and appealing. I had an "Aqua" theme for Linux before I ever got a Mac. I chose the theme because it was COOL looking and new. Who ever saw an interface with a gel cap look before?
I HAVE seen flat 2D "cartoonish" interfaces before (every Lucasfilm adventure game ever made had flat cartoonish interfaces). There's nothing "new" here. It's a morphic change here, not actual innovation. It's like taking a filter in Photoshop and applying it to something that already exists. How does that compare to creating an entirely NEW theme? It doesn't. It's the difference between innovation and imitation. We invented the VCR. The Japanese bought the technology and imitated it. Some say they improved it along the way. That's what I see here. Imitation with some improvements along the way to the OS. This is no OS XI. But it's not refinement either.
It's cartoonish, which is like the difference between watching Star Wars the movie and Star Wars "Rebels". The latter is vastly inferior and catered mostly to kids. OS X is continually modified to easier to use by people who don't know how to use computers. This wouldn't be bad if they kept it also usable by computer experts (i.e. Star Wars the movie appealed to both). I can't stand to watch Rebels or The Clone Wars cartoons. They're kiddified. They don't appeal to normal adults. They only appear to fanatics and kids. OS X is heading in that direction. It's starting to only appeal to fanatics and people who can't use a Windows computer because it's too complicated.
Yes, that's why I had six choices in the poll, because I believed there were only two camps.
Haters are going to hate. You appear to hate hearing that Yosemite isn't FANTASTIC looking. I see it as a big step backwards in functionality, regardless of its visual appeal due to it being harder to use at a glance. OS X's appearance reached its peak at Snow Leopard. I could live with Mavericks, but it was clearly a big step towards iOS6. Yosemite simply completes the step towards Johnny Ive's imitative cartoonish 2D attempt to destroy Scott's legacy. I believe Steve Job's vision was Scott's vision and Johnny is trying to make a name for himself by changing everything he can get away with. Tim Cook probably is for this since he's trying to get out from under Steve's shadow and prove Apple can still "innovate". Sadly, making a Mac Pro into a trash can isn't my idea of "innovation". If they could do it without killing functionality, it would be fine. But OS X is now harder to use at a glance. The GUI is starting to get in the way visually (harder to see window edges, etc.) The Mac Pro only works for a small market segment that doesn't need expansion slots, etc. all in the name of a different LOOK rather than a functional change that has a look that supports that function.
Form should follow function, not the other way around if you want a functional product instead of a fashion product.
This right here sums everything up PERFECTLY!!! Very well said! Although I fear we're in the minority of enjoying what Scott has done and not liking at all what Ive has done.
I didn't use the word "hate" in regards to the poll results. Thus, you clearly seem to enjoy making things up. I can conclude that the remaining 80% don't neccessaritly prefer either one. Thus, one CAN conclude that Yosemite is not a huge "improvement" or people WOULD prefer it. Your job seems to be to make people think everyone likes Yosemite's GUI. My point is that they simply should not have changed it. There was nothing wrong with the looks of Mavericks. Change just for change's sake is pointless, IMO.
Yes, I do happen to dislike the "cartoonish" look of Yosemite. This is 100% Johnny Ive's doing. It looks similar to iOS7 and 8. Scott Forestall is responsible for iOS6 and earlier. It is clear to me that my tastes are in line with Scott's vision, not Johnny's vision. OS X created a "new" look back at the start of the century that was different and appealing. I had an "Aqua" theme for Linux before I ever got a Mac. I chose the theme because it was COOL looking and new. Who ever saw an interface with a gel cap look before?
I HAVE seen flat 2D "cartoonish" interfaces before (every Lucasfilm adventure game ever made had flat cartoonish interfaces). There's nothing "new" here. It's a morphic change here, not actual innovation. It's like taking a filter in Photoshop and applying it to something that already exists. How does that compare to creating an entirely NEW theme? It doesn't. It's the difference between innovation and imitation. We invented the VCR. The Japanese bought the technology and imitated it. Some say they improved it along the way. That's what I see here. Imitation with some improvements along the way to the OS. This is no OS XI. But it's not refinement either.
It's cartoonish, which is like the difference between watching Star Wars the movie and Star Wars "Rebels". The latter is vastly inferior and catered mostly to kids. OS X is continually modified to easier to use by people who don't know how to use computers. This wouldn't be bad if they kept it also usable by computer experts (i.e. Star Wars the movie appealed to both). I can't stand to watch Rebels or The Clone Wars cartoons. They're kiddified. They don't appeal to normal adults. They only appear to fanatics and kids. OS X is heading in that direction. It's starting to only appeal to fanatics and people who can't use a Windows computer because it's too complicated.
Yes, that's why I had six choices in the poll, because I believed there were only two camps.
Haters are going to hate. You appear to hate hearing that Yosemite isn't FANTASTIC looking. I see it as a big step backwards in functionality, regardless of its visual appeal due to it being harder to use at a glance. OS X's appearance reached its peak at Snow Leopard. I could live with Mavericks, but it was clearly a big step towards iOS6. Yosemite simply completes the step towards Johnny Ive's imitative cartoonish 2D attempt to destroy Scott's legacy. I believe Steve Job's vision was Scott's vision and Johnny is trying to make a name for himself by changing everything he can get away with. Tim Cook probably is for this since he's trying to get out from under Steve's shadow and prove Apple can still "innovate". Sadly, making a Mac Pro into a trash can isn't my idea of "innovation". If they could do it without killing functionality, it would be fine. But OS X is now harder to use at a glance. The GUI is starting to get in the way visually (harder to see window edges, etc.) The Mac Pro only works for a small market segment that doesn't need expansion slots, etc. all in the name of a different LOOK rather than a functional change that has a look that supports that function.
Form should follow function, not the other way around if you want a functional product instead of a fashion product.
100% agreed. When we compare the UI of two versions of OS, it should be evaluated without taking functionality improvements into consideration. Following this rule, if we consider iOS 6 and iOS 7, we should ask ourselves which one looks better pretending there was no control center and etc. in iOS 7. And if we are talking about looking, then readability should be the bottom line here. If one is better than the other, then readability should be at least equal to the other. Unfortunately the looking of iOS 7 is in no way better than iOS 6 in terms of readability. You can argue that the transparency effect in iOS 7 is charming but that's already irrelevant here because it's done at the expense of readability.
Jonathan Ive, if he's really responsible for all of this, has no business doing operating system interfaces. He's great at hardware, but let's face the facts, he's basically designing boxes that enclose hardware, nothing more nothing less. Being able to design a slick looking box does not put one in the same class as Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, or Leonardo Da Vinci. It simply means one designed an encasing for a product that likely helped the marketing of the product.
If an Apple computer looked like one of the clunkers from a PC manufacturer, would people actually not buy it because the user interface looked bad but the hardware looked good? I don't think so. A good looking unit is a nice touch, but it's the user interface that people are staring at probably in excess of 95% of the time, not the appearance of the hardware.
If I open up a Finder window in list mode, Yosemite looks like a first cut version of Linux. Give me a break. The icons are overly simplified, the colors are obnoxious, and I get the impression it was just slapped together.
This is ridiculous.
If an Apple computer looked like one of the clunkers from a PC manufacturer, would people actually not buy it because the user interface looked bad but the hardware looked good? I don't think so. A good looking unit is a nice touch, but it's the user interface that people are staring at probably in excess of 95% of the time, not the appearance of the hardware.
If I open up a Finder window in list mode, Yosemite looks like a first cut version of Linux. Give me a break. The icons are overly simplified, the colors are obnoxious, and I get the impression it was just slapped together.
This is ridiculous.
People, perceptions, problems within the software
Too much of the software product is ridiculous: yes. Seriously ridiculous. However
Blame
I have not seen enough to convince me that Jony Ive, or any other individual at Apple, is 'responsible' for the way that Yosemite was developed. With the opening post as an example
later clarified
but I can't find that blog post.
That's not me doubting OldGuyTom. Maybe that part of the opening post involved a paraphrase, or maybe the original (blog) post was edited or removed following a realisation that Ive's true words were paraphrased, or taken out of context, or any number of possible reasons. Of all the possibilities, I'll go with this one for now:
If it transpires that Ive was not ultimately responsible, I'll be unsurprised. Maybe someone else someone who had an excess of enthusiasm for an operating system (more than for appropriate UX) latched on to what she or he thought would be appropriate for Mac users. And ran with that thought. And ran, and ran, and ran.
If the those responsible share my stubbornness, in the face of criticism, about an idea of what's 'best': naming and shaming will worsen any existing impasse. (I have to treat that as fact; my stubbornness is almost without bounds!) Simply:
This topic could easily have turned into a borderline tirade against the thoughts, the perceptions of an individual. Of the opening poster, perhaps. Or tirades against the perceptions of groups of people. Instead, these discussions seem to be overwhelmingly focused on the software. That's great. With that in mind
here's something contentious (debatably not a fact). To the people who believe that reactions such as 'Yosemite looks terrible' arise from problems with perception: such beliefs are problematic. Almost without exception:
Please note, I do not suggest that every such problem is serious. Some are minor or close to negligible. (I do sometimes exaggerate, but this is not one of those times.)
Too much of the software product is ridiculous: yes. Seriously ridiculous. However
Blame
I have not seen enough to convince me that Jony Ive, or any other individual at Apple, is 'responsible' for the way that Yosemite was developed. With the opening post as an example
later clarified
"I got that from a blog (somewhere) where the author was enthusiastically praising the complete removal of skeuomorphism and 3D effects from the user interface. He was also touting how everyone loved iOS 7 because iPhone sales went up, completely neglecting the fact that
"
but I can't find that blog post.
That's not me doubting OldGuyTom. Maybe that part of the opening post involved a paraphrase, or maybe the original (blog) post was edited or removed following a realisation that Ive's true words were paraphrased, or taken out of context, or any number of possible reasons. Of all the possibilities, I'll go with this one for now:
- the blogger went beyond simple neglect maybe his excess of enthusiasm caused him to exaggerate, to express his own wishes as if it they reflected the wishes of someone else, maybe a leading designer within one of the most talked-about organisations on the planet, a person whose works were already famous and hotly debated.
If it transpires that Ive was not ultimately responsible, I'll be unsurprised. Maybe someone else someone who had an excess of enthusiasm for an operating system (more than for appropriate UX) latched on to what she or he thought would be appropriate for Mac users. And ran with that thought. And ran, and ran, and ran.
If the those responsible share my stubbornness, in the face of criticism, about an idea of what's 'best': naming and shaming will worsen any existing impasse. (I have to treat that as fact; my stubbornness is almost without bounds!) Simply:
- beating a person when she or he may be already down in some way is likely to prove counterproductive.
This topic could easily have turned into a borderline tirade against the thoughts, the perceptions of an individual. Of the opening poster, perhaps. Or tirades against the perceptions of groups of people. Instead, these discussions seem to be overwhelmingly focused on the software. That's great. With that in mind
here's something contentious (debatably not a fact). To the people who believe that reactions such as 'Yosemite looks terrible' arise from problems with perception: such beliefs are problematic. Almost without exception:
- where there's negative reaction to the UX (user experience) or appearance/looks of Yosemite, that reaction is primarily attributable to problems that are within OS X 10.10.
Please note, I do not suggest that every such problem is serious. Some are minor or close to negligible. (I do sometimes exaggerate, but this is not one of those times.)
Umm... OK UI design isn't the best but I can live with it as I've seen worse in my past 30 years.... Not by much but it happened.
Now is there a chance to remove those ***ing annoying black dots under every opened application in the dock ? makes me unconsciously wanting to wipe the screen.... and to be honest it's getting on my ******** nerves.
Thanks.
Now is there a chance to remove those ***ing annoying black dots under every opened application in the dock ? makes me unconsciously wanting to wipe the screen.... and to be honest it's getting on my ******** nerves.
Thanks.
Yosemite Dock-related topics
First try the Dock pane of System Preferences.
Screenshot of Mavericks attached. Indicator 'lights' in Mavericks, black dots in Yosemite.
Yeah, I agree, the black dots annoyed me in Yosemite. For a few weeks I tried working without the indicators in Mavericks, eventually I found it easier to work with the lights.
Further information:
First try the Dock pane of System Preferences.
Screenshot of Mavericks attached. Indicator 'lights' in Mavericks, black dots in Yosemite.
Yeah, I agree, the black dots annoyed me in Yosemite. For a few weeks I tried working without the indicators in Mavericks, eventually I found it easier to work with the lights.
Further information:
- post 9 under The New Dock is Easy to Theme! – please aim for that topic, if you can
- https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20270275#post20270275 today under OS X 10.10 Yosemite: All The Little Things
- – and so on; plenty of places to begin.
Attachments
Thanks ! Well yes I can remove the black dots from settings but I will lose track of minimized apps. If only we had the choice.
I'm having a look at DockMod 3. Looks promising.
Dock design and look is a complete failure to be honest but the OS itself is faster than Mavericks ( at least on my 14,2 iMac )
Quickly scanned the post and it reconfirmed one thing that I always believe:
Light users are happy with almost anything. As long as its something new, then it's considered "gorgeous, refreshing and modern".
Personally I'll have to agree with a mate who replied on page one. "It just doesn't seem to look slick or professional". That's it. In this sense it's far aways from "the best UI work in years". Actually I thought people would be crazy to make a statement like that.. Apple has done some really fine work in terms of UI design if you look back in the history. However this one, the colour is like a 7 year old's pick.
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And too many unnecessary moving parts, e.g., inside address bar, search bar.
Light users are happy with almost anything. As long as its something new, then it's considered "gorgeous, refreshing and modern".
Personally I'll have to agree with a mate who replied on page one. "It just doesn't seem to look slick or professional". That's it. In this sense it's far aways from "the best UI work in years". Actually I thought people would be crazy to make a statement like that.. Apple has done some really fine work in terms of UI design if you look back in the history. However this one, the colour is like a 7 year old's pick.
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And too many unnecessary moving parts, e.g., inside address bar, search bar.
That'll teach you to take the web seriously!
There are all sorts of self appointed experts making all sorts of claims about everything.
One thing, however, is that Ive is now the head of the UI division if I'm not mistaken, so ultimately it is his responsibility.
I took a look at the Apple site and people there are removing it for the very same reasons listed in this post. Apple, however, has been known to delete posts that don't reflect well on them, so how may will stay up only time will tell.
The worst part of all is they don't listen to feedback unless they get a gazillion people all saying the same thing. You'd think they'd seriously look at real bugs/problems like the OS ignoring NFS network activity and going to sleep anyway despite it, but despite numerous feedback attempts to get it fixed, they do NOTHING. I even attempted to get others to leave feedback, but either they ignored it or people don't care about NFS networking support. As such, I'm forced to leave the computer on 24/7 to ensure my home theater XBMC-based ATV boxes can use the network reliably.
I left feedback about the left/right mounted docks not migrating like the bottom one can to other monitors. The last I checked, they haven't done anything about that either. They DON'T CARE. But those are REAL functional issues, not eye candy BS nonsense. But they seem more interested in working on the latter instead, users be damned.
I left feedback about the left/right mounted docks not migrating like the bottom one can to other monitors. The last I checked, they haven't done anything about that either. They DON'T CARE. But those are REAL functional issues, not eye candy BS nonsense. But they seem more interested in working on the latter instead, users be damned.
having used mac since the power PC days, yosemite looks like it escaped out the back door of toys r us from a hand held barbie tablet.
hard to define edges of windows
folders that look bland and designed by a 10 year old
buggy and jerky Ui
and that finder icon with a smile you want to wipe of its face
it has some good features, but the look of a kids toy, with pastel colours. transparency? why why why.
hard to define edges of windows
folders that look bland and designed by a 10 year old
buggy and jerky Ui
and that finder icon with a smile you want to wipe of its face
it has some good features, but the look of a kids toy, with pastel colours. transparency? why why why.
They don't have time for that, they have a new OS to ship in 10 months.
Well....not gonna lie. I disliked the UI first but after 2 days I gotta admit that I'm starting to like it.
Not that it's appealing, but it's easier on my eyes than the glossy shiny 3D animated Mavericks Dock.
The icons need some work tho... still don't get the red Itunes icon. It's on her period or... ?
Not that it's appealing, but it's easier on my eyes than the glossy shiny 3D animated Mavericks Dock.
The icons need some work tho... still don't get the red Itunes icon. It's on her period or... ?
Sign this petition to bring back the old UI (at least as an option):
https://www.change.org/p/tim-cook-d...ption-to-go-back-to-the-old-theme-in-yosemite
https://www.change.org/p/tim-cook-d...ption-to-go-back-to-the-old-theme-in-yosemite
U must be kidding yourself or ? Apple doesn't even care about lawsuits let alone petitions.
Remember the iMac smudgy screen ? that cloudy dirty LG panel that needs replacement every couple of months affecting almost every iMac 27" I've seen since 2009 ? Ahem.. guess what... more than 100k of complaints, petitions, forum threads with 3 Million views and even a ***** lawsuit. Yep they didn't give a damn about it. 4 years later, they fixed it... HOW ? quite simple, they introduced a newer iMac. Problem solved ( Ahem... not really )
http://www.iphonehacks.com/2013/10/apple-hit-class-action-lawsuit-faulty-27-inch-imac-displays.html
https://discussions.apple.com/message/20819070#20819070
http://www.change.org/p/apple-recall-the-2009-2011-imacs
http://thebookofw.com/imac-smudged-screens-and-apples-list-of-excuses/
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2300580?start=60&tstart=0
http://www.change.org/p/apple-inc-provide-replacement-for-faulty-screens-in-imacs-from-2009-to-2011
list is endless... my iMac 27" late 2013 screen also suffer from dirt behind the screen but tolerable ( lower right corner... )
Don't waste your time buddy, unless your Mac bends, Apple is always right.
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