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… I think the big things being talked about in this thread are about simply having personal priorities that are different than the ones that Apple chose. Design is about trade offs. …

Design is about more than trade-offs.

In many ways, Apple appears to place great emphasis on the personal nature of at least some of its products. The wish for customers to view Apple Watch™ as Apple's most personal device ever. The single-user nature of iPhone OS, then iOS on iPhones and iPads. And so on.

There's a long and happy tradition of Apple operating systems, for Mac hardware, giving consideration to the wishes and priorities of an extremely broad range of user types.

Development of Yosemite went against that tradition.

My firm beliefs, as a user of Mavericks: Yosemite pleases a relatively narrow range of user types and does so in ways that fall too far below the design standards, the user interface standards, that are justifiably expected by some very experienced Mac users.

(That word 'some' is not an invitation for someone to argue/imply, for the umpteenth time, that majority opinion of looks/design is somehow better, or more important, than minority opinion of such things.)
 
Yosemite is a double bagger

Yep, you heard me...that girl that you went out with in high school, banged in the parking lot and never told anyone about because she was hideous? Her name was Yosemite.

Functional? Absolutely! Well-versed and knows every position and trick. That doesn't change her face though.

Glowing blue folders? Seriously? Hideous flat neon icons? UGH...oh, and when did iTunes get its period and turn red?

Also I had to wait a month for the new iCloud functionality rolled out with Yosemite to sync with my new phone? BS

Jobs would not have allowed this if he were still with us.

Just calling it as I see it. Discuss....No, wait...don't misunderstand me....still love all things Apple as I wait for my 5K to be delivered. I just think someone has lowered the standards. Now discuss... :D:D:D:D
 
Just calling it as I see it. Discuss....No, wait...don't misunderstand me....still love all things Apple as I wait for my 5K to be delivered. I just think someone has lowered the standards. Now discuss... :D:D:D:D
http://www.cultofmac.com/162823/linux-creator-linus-torvalds-i-love-my-macbook-air/
You sad it right on the spot, man. No need to discus anymore. Plainly the best hardware company for computers at the moment is Apple.
I like industrial design, but dislike tendency of forcing on user experience that is clearly wrong. For me even from that perspective things are stupid, if Apple want me to lock my self to their vision, they have to put every possible resource they have and give me something really WOW. Something seriously worth using. You can not fool me with lust videos and cool narrative. Apple was never follower of trends. Apple created the trends. Flat interface is clearly Microsoft easy way idea, and its working for them perfectly because flat interface ignores idea of rich graphical experience and designers are left behind the developer. And Microsoft is structured in a way that is very hard to ship on design basis. Apple is build by design first principle, decision to go Metro is clearly biggest mistake ever. It used to be other way around. Somebody may be remembers this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eEG5LVXdKo
Every move was with Differentiation purpose. Nowadays. We all are big family and share seamlessly your information with our partners. Yea Apple wins now but Metro is Microsoft Trojan Horse:))
For me direction is clear. Linux box/ Apple hardware/ Virtualization of specific apps that are unique. The rest is history for the books.
 
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No reason to manipulate the results of your own polls :p Its not even close to '1 out of 3'. The worst case, 1 out of 6 users dislike Yosemite's UI, the reality is probably closer to 1 out of 8 or even 1 out of 10. Which is quite a good result for a major UI redesign to be frank.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1772847/ (your poll) - out of all people that made a statement about Yosemite looks, 22% have answered 'not the prettiest OS X' , and only 13% have answered 'the ugliest OS X'

Now you're trying to manipulate the results. If you add up all ugly, don't care and I can't decide, you get right around 30%, just like I said. :rolleyes:. I'm not sure how you're "adding". You can't count "I don't care" (apathy) as an endorsement of Yosemite.

Furthermore, 49% did NOT find Yosemite to be the best looking version of OS X (i.e. they don't necessarily consider it "ugly" but that infers they liked a prior version better in the "better than Mavericks, at least" option. I don't call 51%, which is almost 1 out of 2 not being crazy for Yosemite quite the landslide you seem to want people to believe it is (i.e. if they really loved Yosemite they would have picked prettier than ALL versions). Spin it any way you want, but given many comments indicating they find it lacking even if they like it better, it needs work. Sadly, almost 1/3 think they should have just left it alone to begin with.
 
Now you're trying to manipulate the results. If you add up all ugly, don't care and I can't decide, you get right around 30%, just like I said. :rolleyes:. I'm not sure how you're "adding". You can't count "I don't care" (apathy) as an endorsement of Yosemite.

Nope, its you who is manipulating the results. By your logic, if you make a Coke vs. Pepsi poll and 20% will say 'Coke', 5% will say 'Pepsi' and remaining 75% will say 'i drink both', then you will conclude that 80% hate Coke?

Furthermore, 49% did NOT find Yosemite to be the best looking version of OS X

I hope you are trying to be funny here. I never claimed that people are ecstatic about Yosemite's looks (funnily enough, according to your pool, they seem to be). My claim was that people like you, who completely dislike the new visual style, are in a clear minority. It sounds as if you were saying that there are only two camps, people who love Yosemite and people who hate it. I think its pretty obvious to assume that there is also a big group who does not exhibit such strong feelings. So you have to either count it in, or count it in. But please don't try to sell us that anyone who does not have a strong opinion about Yosemite is a hater.
 
Usually i dont feel the need to response to this kind of questions but to be perfectly clear and specific. Here we go:

1. Simplification is not bad thing when is used like a design direction. KISS principle:) But when is used for only reason to exist is always flawed and ignores idea of a depth and emotional response. Simplification must have functional limits, try to simplify design of a spoon, yes you can remove most of the thing but you have to think that spoon is a tool for feeding. And have to obey ergonomic ideas. More specific: When removing contrast of interface and adding transparency you have to remember that your target audience is big in age span, and if young people have strong eyesight oldest don't see between translucency effects, thin font and reduced overall contrast. There is another thing, power user needs contrast also. Lack of contrast is painful in long working sessions. There is a lot more, but this is enough for your question.

That illustrates my point exactly. When you actually get down to specifics, you come up with issues that can be adjusted in the settings with a couple of checkboxes. Which would seem to indicate that they did remember that their target audience is big in age span.

2.Calling people names is not my thing. I simply reflect, when i am confronted with clearly unprofessional question i respond unprofessionally, but there is tolerance after all.

"Semi-pro wannabe with need of fashion statement and vanity based reality distortion field."

"Am i part of minority, may be last generation of critical thinking humans?"

"wishful ignorance is new mantra"

"This os looks like its done by non educated designers, without professional supervision, people that believe that design is made with Photoshop, and have not heard about pen and paper or Gestalt Principles of perception."

Condescending insults, name calling, stereotypes, and unsupported conclusions.

3.If you are calling Gestalt psychology stereotype, may i suggest to look in this with more attention.

I was referring to your stereotyping of mass consumers and Apple users.
 
Interlude, pause for thought (off- then on-topic)

Condescending insults, name calling, stereotypes, and unsupported conclusions.

Enough time has passed for me to encourage some reflection, some self-reflection.

It's amazing how bad you can convince yourself something is when you only focus on what you see as negatives. :)

BaldiMac, I wonder whether you negatively focused only on the least balanced viewpoints of others. :)

Why would you think that I was responding to anything else?

Generally: when the word 'you' is used in a forum – without eye contact, without a quote, without a name – I assume that the word 'you' is to everyone listening, viewing or reading. That was my assumption when I read the post about only focusing on negatives.

More specifically: when a person's name is given – in an attempt to dismiss that person's decades of experience with Macs as being of no more value than the experience of a switcher from Windows (a Mac novice), with a poke of the tongue – then anyone/everyone listening, viewing or reading may perceive that the intention is to insult one person alone, in a way that's overtly childish.

… platitudes, vague pronouncements, and unsupported insults … Doesn't seem very balanced to me. …

… not wrong about? Specifically.

… I just find the claims that you highlighted lacking in specifics. … Why is calling people names and throwing out stereotypes a valid design critique?

It may be difficult to take seriously a wish for valid design critique, or wishes for specifics, when those wishes are from someone who previously chose to be childish, dismissive and insulting. The likelihood of that person responding in a way that is both (a) balanced and (b) adult may be not high.

BaldiMac: would you like me to be a little more specific? Before answering that question, please know that my quoting and linking above was somewhat restrained. Also, I can be childish, and so on. I'm happy to leave the question unanswered.

… Calling people names is not my thing. I simply reflect, when i am confronted with clearly unprofessional question i respond unprofessionally, but there is tolerance after all. …

With an emphasis on tolerance and professionalism, let's get back on topic to the looks of Yosemite.
 
Tolerance and professionalism (let's get back on topic)

I respect people's subscription preferences, but I hope that tkermit continues to contribute from time to time. I don't recall anything inflammatory, anything unnecessarily personal about tkermit's posts here or elsewhere (and I don't plan to go looking).

----​

With an emphasis on tolerance and professionalism, let's get back on topic to the looks of Yosemite … thanks …
 
Random question: I'm not a fan of the new coloring of Safari as it perpetually looks like an inactive window. Is there a way to change the color to something darker? Does that make sense?
 
Preferring something other than Apple's choice of colour for windows

… Safari … looks like an inactive window. Is there a way to change the color to something darker? …

Yosemite and the future Flavours 2 : interacto (2014-09-16)

– that's my first guess. I experimented with a pre-release of Flavours on Mavericks.

Now and in the future, for Yosemite, there may be alternatives to Flavours. Loosely speaking, I should describe Flavours and the like as 'patching' the operating system. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Simply proceed with caution.

Loosely speaking, Yosemite is by default less accessible than Mavericks. So try the Accessibility pane of System Preferences. Does it help to increase contrast?

I don't expect that change of contrast to darken the frame of any window, but it may become easier to distinguish between windows.

Alternative suggestions, anyone? Thanks.

(I guess that third party products will target windows in general, not windows of Safari in particular.)
 
Random question: I'm not a fan of the new coloring of Safari as it perpetually looks like an inactive window. Is there a way to change the color to something darker? Does that make sense?

You could try Chrome, Opera, or Firefox.
 
This is just my opinion but I reckon it looks anus. And prefer the older look. The dock looks fugly to me.

This is on a Mac Mini with a non apple monitor attached.
 
Kaleidoscope and a QOTW


"… two of the schemes included with Kaleidoscope, designed by Arlo Rose, formerly of Apple's Human Interface Design Center …"​

Those are too much for my liking.

Two of the four below are far better for me than what Apple did to Yosemite.

It's for Mac OS 9.1 so I don't expect to use it with Mavericks ;-) but if something comparable to Kaleidoscope will be developed by a third party – and if that thing could fix what's most broken for me, I'd buy it … then maybe retry Yosemite.

That said, I doubt that any third party product will be able to fix what's currently broken for me. But thanks.

… I reckon it looks anus. …

That is without a doubt a quote of the week.

FMT, for your further entertainment: https://twitter.com/oursonwelles/status/492618259716665344
 
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From what I read from Mac App store Yosemite review

I can't resist to think that Sir Jonathan Ive must have an eyesight way beyond 20/20. Cause readability of iOS 7 and Yosemite is the most prevalent complaint you can find on either macrumors forums or app store.
 
OS X used to just get out of the way, and let you get on with it. Minimal distractions and a lot of clarity in the design made it more a productive environment than most other operating systems. Slowly, OS X has been losing this advantage. Notifications, modality, and now, those white toolbar buttons that are constantly fighting for attention, and the ridiculous transparency effects.

Transparency in the toolbars so the content shows through "...gives a sense of context...". No Apple: scrollbars give a sense of context. The transparency is an unneeded distraction.

I wouldn't be surprised in a version or two, it ends up much like Windows XP, with the constant system tray notifications, an even more garish color scheme, and other productivity hostile "features".

Just wanted to give this post a re-tweet. While the design continues to evolve and some things look spectacular (a retina screen will do that) it just gets in the way now. That's the verbal diarrhea that Windows is famous for and it does seem like OS X is trending towards too many notifications and distractions.
 
The only reason they can get away with this is because Windows is such a joke. I'm sticking with Mavericks.
 
Just wanted to give this post a re-tweet. While the design continues to evolve and some things look spectacular (a retina screen will do that) it just gets in the way now. That's the verbal diarrhea that Windows is famous for and it does seem like OS X is trending towards too many notifications and distractions.

Well at least Apple doesn't prevent us from controlling these distractions:
 

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Just wanted to give this post a re-tweet. While the design continues to evolve and some things look spectacular (a retina screen will do that) it just gets in the way now. That's the verbal diarrhea that Windows is famous for and it does seem like OS X is trending towards too many notifications and distractions.
I totally get what you're saying here. Something I can't stand on Windows at work are the constant banners, pop-up windows and pop-up balloons constantly bugging you about anything. It's one of those reasons why I can't stand Chrome compared to Safari:

- Do you want to login with your Google Account?
- Do you want to translate this page?
- Do you want to stop the translation of pages in Dutch forever?
- Etc.

And most famously how Windows handles a USB stick being plugged in:

- Oh look a new USB stick!
- I'm going to install said USB Stick
- I'm looking for drivers for the USB stick
- I found drivers for the USB stick
- I'm currently in the progress of installing the USB stick
- I've finished installing the USB stick
- You can now use the USB stick
- What's the default action you want to perform when the USB stick is plugged in?

I might be overstating it a bit, but you get the general idea. On OS X the USB stick just appears on the desktop after a second or so.

I'd hate it if OS X would start doing the same. For now you can turn off all notifications on a per app basis or completely. Here's more info:
http://www.tuaw.com/2014/03/18/how-to-permanently-remove-notification-center-from-os-x/
 
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Nope, its you who is manipulating the results. By your logic, if you make a Coke vs. Pepsi poll and 20% will say 'Coke', 5% will say 'Pepsi' and remaining 75% will say 'i drink both', then you will conclude that 80% hate Coke?

I didn't use the word "hate" in regards to the poll results. Thus, you clearly seem to enjoy making things up. I can conclude that the remaining 80% don't neccessaritly prefer either one. Thus, one CAN conclude that Yosemite is not a huge "improvement" or people WOULD prefer it. Your job seems to be to make people think everyone likes Yosemite's GUI. My point is that they simply should not have changed it. There was nothing wrong with the looks of Mavericks. Change just for change's sake is pointless, IMO.

Yes, I do happen to dislike the "cartoonish" look of Yosemite. This is 100% Johnny Ive's doing. It looks similar to iOS7 and 8. Scott Forestall is responsible for iOS6 and earlier. It is clear to me that my tastes are in line with Scott's vision, not Johnny's vision. OS X created a "new" look back at the start of the century that was different and appealing. I had an "Aqua" theme for Linux before I ever got a Mac. I chose the theme because it was COOL looking and new. Who ever saw an interface with a gel cap look before?

I HAVE seen flat 2D "cartoonish" interfaces before (every Lucasfilm adventure game ever made had flat cartoonish interfaces). There's nothing "new" here. It's a morphic change here, not actual innovation. It's like taking a filter in Photoshop and applying it to something that already exists. How does that compare to creating an entirely NEW theme? It doesn't. It's the difference between innovation and imitation. We invented the VCR. The Japanese bought the technology and imitated it. Some say they improved it along the way. That's what I see here. Imitation with some improvements along the way to the OS. This is no OS XI. But it's not refinement either.

It's cartoonish, which is like the difference between watching Star Wars the movie and Star Wars "Rebels". The latter is vastly inferior and catered mostly to kids. OS X is continually modified to easier to use by people who don't know how to use computers. This wouldn't be bad if they kept it also usable by computer experts (i.e. Star Wars the movie appealed to both). I can't stand to watch Rebels or The Clone Wars cartoons. They're kiddified. They don't appeal to normal adults. They only appear to fanatics and kids. OS X is heading in that direction. It's starting to only appeal to fanatics and people who can't use a Windows computer because it's too complicated.

I hope you are trying to be funny here. I never claimed that people are ecstatic about Yosemite's looks (funnily enough, according to your pool, they seem to be). My claim was that people like you, who completely dislike the new visual style, are in a clear minority. It sounds as if you were saying that there are only two camps, people who love Yosemite and people who hate it. I think its pretty obvious to assume that there is also a big group who

Yes, that's why I had six choices in the poll, because I believed there were only two camps. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

does not exhibit such strong feelings. So you have to either count it in, or count it in. But please don't try to sell us that anyone who does not have a strong opinion about Yosemite is a hater.

Haters are going to hate. You appear to hate hearing that Yosemite isn't FANTASTIC looking. I see it as a big step backwards in functionality, regardless of its visual appeal due to it being harder to use at a glance. OS X's appearance reached its peak at Snow Leopard. I could live with Mavericks, but it was clearly a big step towards iOS6. Yosemite simply completes the step towards Johnny Ive's imitative cartoonish 2D attempt to destroy Scott's legacy. I believe Steve Job's vision was Scott's vision and Johnny is trying to make a name for himself by changing everything he can get away with. Tim Cook probably is for this since he's trying to get out from under Steve's shadow and prove Apple can still "innovate". Sadly, making a Mac Pro into a trash can isn't my idea of "innovation". If they could do it without killing functionality, it would be fine. But OS X is now harder to use at a glance. The GUI is starting to get in the way visually (harder to see window edges, etc.) The Mac Pro only works for a small market segment that doesn't need expansion slots, etc. all in the name of a different LOOK rather than a functional change that has a look that supports that function.

Form should follow function, not the other way around if you want a functional product instead of a fashion product.
 
I believe when my current generation of Apple hardware starts going south, the replacements will be non-Apple.

Any ideas for non-Windows alternates? I'm thinking Linux, FreeBSD, etc.

I think the opinion on design of a user interface is quite personal and this thread shows it. Although most like it.
I'm not that thrilled about the "flat" interface design, but it's apparently the spirit of time and I'm still stuck in the 80's with most of things.

What I do think is interesting is to move away from Mac because of the look of the interface. I moved to Mac because of the better products they build, not the glossy interface. Perhaps that is personal too, but I'm not sure if turning your back on Apple, because their user interface is not to your liking, is a good decision. Perhaps that is personal too.

Try Windows 8 and you'll know why your turned to apple.
 
Try Windows 8 and you'll know why your turned to apple.

True, but troublesome Apple software like Yosemite will certainly not attract more platform switchers.

If the design was the only broken part of Yosemite, I wouldn't care. Obviously there are more issues than normal.
 
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