If you re that smart, why don't you have your own multi-billion tech corporation?
Then you can show those losers at Apple how to do things
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Yosemite looks terrible!
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If you re that smart, why don't you have your own multi-billion tech corporation?
Then you can show those losers at Apple how to do things
Says the guy who was preaching respect to those that have a different taste and opinion just a few posts ago
Although I do certainly share the sentiment when I think about people wanting the skeuomorphic UI back
Just because I can respect other people's right to have a different opinion, that doesn't mean I will agree with or share that opinion. I hate Brussels sprouts too. Some people love them. I don't understand why they'd want to eat that nasty stinky little cabbage wanna-be, but hey, they can have my lifetime share.
Well, I'm smart enough to remember my apostrophes, but half of everything is opportunity. Steve Jobs sold blue box phone phreaking setups to raise money to start Apple from what I've read, so maybe we should all become criminals to achieve that status? Really, though, the argument you present is of the absolute weakest type. Equating MONEY with right, wrong or intelligence lacks any kind of foundation in any type of logical argument I've ever seen. Bill Gates made his fortune copying Apple for Windows on an inferior operating system (Dos) that he also mimicked from yet another developer (Gary Kildall) and then set about screwing over IBM with a technicality in his contract that allowed him to sell Dos to everyone else too. Brilliant? I don't know. An opportunist that would use every dirty business trick in the book to squash the competition? Yes, indeed.
Frankly, I'd rather be a poor man of righteous dignity like example set by someone named Jesus (whether one believes in him or not, the story sets a good example of righteous, pious behavior) than a rich money grubbing egotist that takes credit for all the actual technical work of the people around him. Throw in never donating to charity and you get Steve Jobs (Bill Gates at least did something useful with some of his money). Frankly, I think Scott Forstall did more actual work to make the iPhone a success than Steve Jobs, but Steve got all the credit and Forstall got the boot.
Ah, yes early X-Windows. That truly is the best example of a hideous looking flat GUI (far far worse than Yosemite). How many decades went by before someone made any effort to improve it? I can't think of much improvement until after Linux came out. Even then, KDE was imitating Windows 3.1 which was a poor copy of the Classic Mac OS. The early Amiga OS and Atari ST window systems weren't much better looking. But what are you going to do with just 4-16 colors? What excuse does Yosemite have?
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If you re that smart, why don't you have your own multi-billion tech corporation?
Then you can show those losers at Apple how to do things
I can think of lots of multi-billion dollar corporations that don't give a damn about the likes/convenience and dislikes/inconvenience of their customers.
After all these years of caring, I was just hoping that Apple wouldn't want to suddenly join that group.
Etan
well, just upgraded the wife's MBP to yosemite... the looks are indeed meh, but did not bother me as much, not nearly as crappy as windows 8.
i liked the new fonts, the smoothing/subpixel rendering thing seems to work better than on mavericks, maybe the transparency helps. this is on a 1280x800 display (2012 mbp 13").
rightzoom does not work (meh), and the green button fullscreen is crap, had to do a quick hack with BTT or else the wife would complain
other than that it seems OK, all 3rd party stuff on statusmenubar works fine, even fan monitors and menumeters...
maybe i'll upgrade my two macbooks when 10.10.2 is out... only worried about if/how vmware fusion 6 runs on yosemite, maybe i'll need to upgrade it.
is there an nvidia webdriver for yosemite available yet?
cheers
i liked the new fonts, the smoothing/subpixel rendering thing seems to work better than on mavericks, maybe the transparency helps. this is on a 1280x800 display (2012 mbp 13").
rightzoom does not work (meh), and the green button fullscreen is crap, had to do a quick hack with BTT or else the wife would complain
other than that it seems OK, all 3rd party stuff on statusmenubar works fine, even fan monitors and menumeters...
maybe i'll upgrade my two macbooks when 10.10.2 is out... only worried about if/how vmware fusion 6 runs on yosemite, maybe i'll need to upgrade it.
is there an nvidia webdriver for yosemite available yet?
cheers
well, just upgraded the wife's MBP to yosemite... the looks are indeed meh, but did not bother me as much, not nearly as crappy as windows 8.
i liked the new fonts, the smoothing/subpixel rendering thing seems to work better than on mavericks, maybe the transparency helps. this is on a 1280x800 display (2012 mbp 13").
rightzoom does not work (meh), and the green button fullscreen is crap, had to do a quick hack with BTT or else the wife would complain
other than that it seems OK, all 3rd party stuff on statusmenubar works fine, even fan monitors and menumeters...
maybe i'll upgrade my two macbooks when 10.10.2 is out... only worried about if/how vmware fusion 6 runs on yosemite, maybe i'll need to upgrade it.
is there an nvidia webdriver for yosemite available yet?
cheers
Yosemite looks very much like it's been designed for retina screens. On my rMBP it looks nice, but it looks like utter crap on my 11" air.
Yosemite looks very much like it's been designed for retina screens. On my rMBP it looks nice, but it looks like utter crap on my 11" air.
You hit the nail on the head!
If this was done deliberately, it is gross malfeasance.
If done without testing adequately on non-retina screens, it was gross incompetence.
Either way, it is inexcusable.
Etan
There are 95 pages in this thread which should answer your question.
See also:
blurry font on yosemite
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6602718
Yosemite font size is too small for vision impaired
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6611325
Re: How do I increase the font size for the URL and favorites bars in Safari?
https://discussions.apple.com/message/26880662#26880662
font size in favorites toolbar
https://discussions.apple.com/message/26972848#26972848
Re: Yosemite: how to increase menu font size?
https://discussions.apple.com/message/27157659#27157659
etc.
Respectfully,
Etan
thanks for the links! interesting stuff.
but don't feel like those guys at all... at least for the while i tried it.
i guess one man's blurry is another man's 'smooth'
and my eyesight is not great... 41 years and done LASIK to get rid of 3+ degrees of shortsightedness like 10 years ago... worked well, but today I kinda regret it as my vision for 'close' things like monitors was superb before that.
cheers
but don't feel like those guys at all... at least for the while i tried it.
i guess one man's blurry is another man's 'smooth'
and my eyesight is not great... 41 years and done LASIK to get rid of 3+ degrees of shortsightedness like 10 years ago... worked well, but today I kinda regret it as my vision for 'close' things like monitors was superb before that.
cheers
I can think of lots of multi-billion dollar corporations that don't give a damn about the likes/convenience and dislikes/inconvenience of their customers.
After all these years of caring, I was just hoping that Apple wouldn't want to suddenly join that group.
Etan
Thanks to the world of conditioned humans (social media) and marketing. Everyone wants to be liked and not left out. Everybody wants to be the same.
Various
It is reasonable to an aspect of design to focus on a minority of users (say, the seven or eight percent with a pure Retina environment) if that minority focus is coupled with a wish, by the designers, for the majority of users to be not adversely affected.
A few discussions elsewhere
A couple of these have appeared before (they're worth repeating)
but not and least: About the OS X Yosemite v10.10.1 Update | Hacker News. Least worthy because when it was read alongside other Hacker News pages, I realised a hypocritical approach to down-voting opinion-based commentary.
Thanks. Bookmarked.
X Window System
Coincidentally a few hours ago I saw what might have been an XDarwin-related app in screenshots of someone's very pleasantly restrained customisation of Yosemite.
Off-topic: thanking and respecting each other
OT from Yosemite, for a moment concerning 'showing respect whilst disagreeing' https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20506210#post20506210 rounds up a few wishes for a feature to complement the generic 'Like' feature in an improved interface to the forum.
Claws retracted for conversation, please, ladies and gentlemen. We (that includes me) can do better
It is reasonable to an aspect of design to focus on a minority of users (say, the seven or eight percent with a pure Retina environment) if that minority focus is coupled with a wish, by the designers, for the majority of users to be not adversely affected.
Maybe the greatest problem with Apple's wishful thinking towards users of non-Retina displays: the company's failure to properly communicate that wish. (It's fair to say that lack of communication also exacerbated the negative reactions of some of the customers who upgraded to Lion. In an ideal world, the 2011 lessons from that negativity should have prevented Apple from making the the similar mistake in 2014.)
A few discussions elsewhere
A couple of these have appeared before (they're worth repeating)
- Mac OS X Yosemite Under the Magnifying Glass - BOLD by Pixelapse (2014-06)
- Mac OS X Yosemite Under the Magnifying Glass | Hacker News
- Yosemite Thoughts on blurriness and design ecosystems - Atlassian Blogs (2014-06-11)
- Yosemite Thoughts on blurriness and design ecosystems | Hacker News
- OS X Yosemite: I went back to Mavericks. Medium (2014-10)
- OS X Yosemite: I went back to Mavericks | Hacker News
- OS X Yosemite: A new design built just for Retina Macs | Macworld (2014-10-16, highlights)
- ignore the code: Yosemite's Visual Design (2014-10-25, highlights)
- Yosemite's Visual Design | Hacker News
- OS X Yosemite Design Fail - Eye Candy vs. Usability | Revelry Labs (2014-10-28)
- OS X Yosemite Design Fail Eye Candy vs. Usability | Hacker News
- IntelliJ has historically looked pretty native on MacOS X. At least until Yosemi... | Hacker News (2014-12-02)
Thanks. Bookmarked.
X Window System
Coincidentally a few hours ago I saw what might have been an XDarwin-related app in screenshots of someone's very pleasantly restrained customisation of Yosemite.
Off-topic: thanking and respecting each other
Just because I can respect other people's right to have a different opinion, that doesn't mean I will agree with or share that opinion. I hate Brussels sprouts too. Some people love them. I don't understand why they'd want to eat that nasty stinky little cabbage wanna-be, but hey, they can have my lifetime share.
OT from Yosemite, for a moment concerning 'showing respect whilst disagreeing' https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20506210#post20506210 rounds up a few wishes for a feature to complement the generic 'Like' feature in an improved interface to the forum.
Claws retracted for conversation, please, ladies and gentlemen. We (that includes me) can do better
Yosemite looks very much like it's been designed for retina screens. On my rMBP it looks nice, but it looks like utter crap on my 11" air.
IMHO it looks better on nearly ANY smaller display than it does on a large display. A smaller display hides the over simplification of everything, whereas a larger display brings all the problems out. If I take a 13" MacBook Pro and put the mouse cursor over the Safari icon in the dock (I have mine set to enlarge the icon) you will see all the fine details put into the icon on Mavericks and earlier OS X releases. Do the same thing with it in Yosemite and it looks like a kiddy icon....maybe we should call them "kiddycons" instead of "icons" ...which is lacking detail. Now if I take the same unit and attach it to a 21" display what was an enlarged icon in the dock is now about the size of the regular, unmagnified icon in the dock, and the kiddycon will look just like what it is. Apple doesn't seem to be paying much attention to detail...or they've lost the people that knew how to do that.
...yes, I woke up this morning, took a look at Yosemite, and it was still ugly.
IMHO it looks better on nearly ANY smaller display than it does on a large display. A smaller display hides the over simplification of everything, whereas a larger display brings all the problems out. If I take a 13" MacBook Pro and put the mouse cursor over the Safari icon in the dock (I have mine set to enlarge the icon) you will see all the fine details put into the icon on Mavericks and earlier OS X releases. Do the same thing with it in Yosemite and it looks like a kiddy icon....maybe we should call them "kiddycons" instead of "icons" ...which is lacking detail. Now if I take the same unit and attach it to a 21" display what was an enlarged icon in the dock is now about the size of the regular, unmagnified icon in the dock, and the kiddycon will look just like what it is. Apple doesn't seem to be paying much attention to detail...or they've lost the people that knew how to do that.
...yes, I woke up this morning, took a look at Yosemite, and it was still ugly.
Good analysis. For those that keep saying its taste not quality, its quality. You measure graphics the same as diamonds, using magnification.
Anyone remember back in the Tiger days the rumors about OS X going to resolution independence with a vector based GUI? Apparently, they abandoned that effort. Too bad, that would have been true progress instead of a flat paint job.
They weren't just rumours, apparently RI was included in some form in the developer previews of Mac OS X Tiger: http://arstechnica.com/staff/2006/04/3720/
Experimental RI was actually shipped with normal OS X for several releases (somewhere around Leopard to Lion if I remember correctly). The current retina display software is based on those experiments. Eventually, Apple has decided to limit pixel magnification factors to 2x with flexible backing buffer resolution (this way that can still emulate 'true' RI) — their previous RI implementation involved non-fixed pixel magnification factor with find backing buffer resolution. As to the reasons behind that decision, we can only guess. In my opinion they chose this approach because it offers superior image quality and performance with excellent software compatibility. Ultimately, this is what allowed OS X developers to update their software to retina within very short periods of time, while other platforms (with traditional RI approach) still struggle (e.g. Windows).
P.S. By the way, the OS X drawing API is set up in a way to support flexible scaling. So 'true' RI could still be happening in the future. If the application's drawing code is written according to Apple's guidelines, it should still work properly when that future comes.
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Reviews, taste, personal opinion, fair criticism
+1
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20536108#post20536108
Amongst John Siracusa's recommendations:
Yosemite and the Eyestrain, today, from someone who has been familiar with the OS for more than six months:
Not embarrassingly pleasing; much more pleasing.
More on sterility: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20535345#post20535345
OK, so we probably have more people agreeing than disagreeing with the Ars Technica review as a whole. We probably also have a majority of readers not questioning the taste the personal opinion of John Siracusa.
In topics such as this I lost count of the number of times that criticism of an observation was essentially "that's just your personal opinion" or "that's just your taste", or words to those effects almost as if it's inappropriate to have a personal taste or opinion with regard to the looks of something. A handful of the more memorable episodes, from July:
There's surely a place for taste and opinion in this topic and I can't fault reviewers for making emotive recommendations based on personal opinions but let's not forget that most reviewers are like us readers biased in some way. If we're to criticise (respectfully, positively and negatively) each other's opinions in this topic: we can be equally critical of reviewer's opinions.
+1
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20536108#post20536108
Amongst John Siracusa's recommendations:
Yosemite and the Eyestrain, today, from someone who has been familiar with the OS for more than six months:
Not embarrassingly pleasing; much more pleasing.
More on sterility: https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20535345#post20535345
OK, so we probably have more people agreeing than disagreeing with the Ars Technica review as a whole. We probably also have a majority of readers not questioning the taste the personal opinion of John Siracusa.
In topics such as this I lost count of the number of times that criticism of an observation was essentially "that's just your personal opinion" or "that's just your taste", or words to those effects almost as if it's inappropriate to have a personal taste or opinion with regard to the looks of something. A handful of the more memorable episodes, from July:
There's surely a place for taste and opinion in this topic and I can't fault reviewers for making emotive recommendations based on personal opinions but let's not forget that most reviewers are like us readers biased in some way. If we're to criticise (respectfully, positively and negatively) each other's opinions in this topic: we can be equally critical of reviewer's opinions.
What they need to do is stop worrying about GUI elements which neither hinder nor help you. How about concentrating on functionality such as editable address bar in finder windows, and I don't mean path, I mean address so you can use just about any address and have it display it. I can add these things by tweaking but these days with many things internet or cloud based, the finder is becoming old and primitive and needs an overhaul joining finder, spotlight and safari in one or something similar.
Just because I can respect other people's right to have a different opinion, that doesn't mean I will agree with or share that opinion. I hate Brussels sprouts too. Some people love them. I don't understand why they'd want to eat that nasty stinky little cabbage wanna-be, but hey, they can have my lifetime share.
Well, I'm smart enough to remember my apostrophes, but half of everything is opportunity. Steve Jobs sold blue box phone phreaking setups to raise money to start Apple from what I've read, so maybe we should all become criminals to achieve that status? Really, though, the argument you present is of the absolute weakest type. Equating MONEY with right, wrong or intelligence lacks any kind of foundation in any type of logical argument I've ever seen. Bill Gates made his fortune copying Apple for Windows on an inferior operating system (Dos) that he also mimicked from yet another developer (Gary Kildall) and then set about screwing over IBM with a technicality in his contract that allowed him to sell Dos to everyone else too. Brilliant? I don't know. An opportunist that would use every dirty business trick in the book to squash the competition? Yes, indeed.
Frankly, I'd rather be a poor man of righteous dignity like example set by someone named Jesus (whether one believes in him or not, the story sets a good example of righteous, pious behavior) than a rich money grubbing egotist that takes credit for all the actual technical work of the people around him. Throw in never donating to charity and you get Steve Jobs (Bill Gates at least did something useful with some of his money). Frankly, I think Scott Forstall did more actual work to make the iPhone a success than Steve Jobs, but Steve got all the credit and Forstall got the boot.
Ah, yes early X-Windows. That truly is the best example of a hideous looking flat GUI (far far worse than Yosemite). How many decades went by before someone made any effort to improve it? I can't think of much improvement until after Linux came out. Even then, KDE was imitating Windows 3.1 which was a poor copy of the Classic Mac OS. The early Amiga OS and Atari ST window systems weren't much better looking. But what are you going to do with just 4-16 colors? What excuse does Yosemite have?
Couple of points, read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates
and you will find what you said about Bill Gates to be nonsense.
another point:
Apple OS at the time of MS-DOS was hardly better, and with regard to Amiga OS which was a true priority driven multitasking OS, how long before Apple did that? and don't even bother mentioning task switching which is all Apple and MS could achieve..
It seems a lot of people really hate Yosemite. I didn't really want to fool around with it yet because I was having some hardware problems with my own system, and when I saw the over-abundance of negative reviews in the App Store I just thought I'd let Apple fix all the bugs before even attempting to try it.
Are there any up-to-date statistics on how reliable the thing is and how many people don't like the way it looks? The one comment that stands out in my mind from one of the App Store reviews was the phrase "nursery school looks" which doesn't exactly sound like high praise.
Are there any up-to-date statistics on how reliable the thing is and how many people don't like the way it looks? The one comment that stands out in my mind from one of the App Store reviews was the phrase "nursery school looks" which doesn't exactly sound like high praise.
Do you really think Bill Gates does this out of pure altruism? ...or to save taxes? Something useful yes...Sorry for the distraction, back to Yosemite's awfulness now.
I don't. But there are a couple of things that bug me - yet they didn't stop me from upgrading.
Of all the "major bugs" reported, the only one I've been experiencing so far is the AFP renaming thing. Annoying yes but considering I'm not using AFP often, it's something I can live with until Apple fixes it.
At the risk of sounding off topic, I disagree.
...While not 100% crazy about the new look, I got used to it. I love the new Spotlight, I don't mind the new icons, I don't care for dark mode as it's not a "dark theme" per se, I actually like how the latest iTunes is organized... And on top of all this, 10.10 is rock-solid and fast. I'm not saying the bugs are exaggerated, but I just haven't experienced them. I haven't had a single incompatibility issue so far either (I work with Pro Tools, a lot of audio apps and plugins, Adobe CC...)Maybe you can try it on a separate partition and see how it goes from there?
There's certainly some altruism there, which is a lot more than can be said about Jobs.
It is entirely possible that Steve Jobs simply chose to make charitable contributions anonymously rather than basking in the light of public generosity as some others choose to do. We don't know one way or another. Hence I for one refrain from sitting in judgment on him or his private life.
I just wish, not only for the sake of his family and loved ones, but also for all of us Apple users, that he were still here and in good health. If so, it is unlikely that we would be dealing with this monstrosity called Yosemite.
Etan
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