10.8 GM Build out...

[Comeagain?]

Who cares if they update the os kernel to the latest version? Are you joking? No it doesn't really change anything for the end user, so they might as well revert back 3 kernels of darwin? Are you serious in saying it doesn't benefit the end user? Jesus Christ.

To say it runs faster than lion, isn't really a compliment, seeing as lion was dirt slow, slower than the linuxes, much slower than windows 7. As far as older systems go, which ones are you talking about? The ones apple is force obsoleting? And we shall see how faster it is than lion, when the proper stats about this come out after release.

It's not a mere $20, it's a billion dollars for apple, for a service pack, that a lot of us are forced to upgrade to because lion was such a poor release to begin with.

Ok, so what does the version of Darwin in iOS 6 have that this version doesn't, that makes it so much better?

It was slow yes. For me, older system means 2007 iMac, 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, with 2GBs of RAM. It's almost as fast as Snow Leopard for me. If you have a preffered method of testing speed, I still have a Snow Leopard partition (and Lion, and even Windows 8) and I will gladly test it for you.

It's a mere $20 for users. What difference does it make what Apple makes? Everyone is well aware of the price Apple charges. This is no different. Are you saying that Apple developers should work for free? Not charge for a years worth of work by hundreds of developers?

 

[stiligFox]

yeap, but it is a collection of fixes and enhancements.

I think at the end of the day we are playing with semantics. In all honesty, is this closer to a service pack or to a new os?

True, but not previously released little patches Yes it's semantics, and it's silly. I guess you could say that this should be free since Apple could've waited 2 years and released this instead of Lion, but... Idk. Personally I think the fixes and added bits are worth $20, but I can see how for others it is not.

 

[cvaldes]

Better re-check your iTunes agreement

iTunes doesn't stop working on older systems. Note that you aren't forced to upgrade to the latest version of iTunes either.

As a matter of fact, when you try to install major Apple software upgrades, you are prompted to accept the terms and conditions of the new end user license agreement. If you refuse, nothing happens. The new software is not installed, but the old software is not removed. It's as if nothing occurred.

Maybe some of the newest store functionality isn't available on older versions of iTunes, but a three-year old copy of iTunes running on Mac OS X Leopard will sync fine with an iPod classic.

Those AACs you ripped on iTunes from CDs in 2007 will still play. Those MP3s you ripped on WinAmp from CDs in 2002 will still play.

Again, Apple Inc. does not force you to upgrade. It's entirely the end user's choice.

 

[alstrike]

I fail to understand why someone that has 1200-2000$ to spend on a Mac won't fork 20$ for the OS.

It's really sad...

 

[stiligFox]

iTunes doesn't stop working on older systems.

Maybe some of the newest store functionality isn't available on older versions of iTunes, but a three-year old copy of iTunes running on Mac OS X Leopard will sync fine with an iPod classic.

Those AACs you ripped from CDs in 2007 will still play.

Heck I remember using iTunes, 9 I think? on a PowerPC running Leopard. You can usually run iTunes on older machines for a good while.

 

[tom vilsack]

My 2007 macbook can't run this...errrr apple!

 

[nuckinfutz]

http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html

Yeah. Merely just a service pack

 

[blow45]

Ok, so what does the version of Darwin in iOS 6 have that this version doesn't, that makes it so much better?

It was slow yes. For me, older system means 2007 iMac, 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo, with 2GBs of RAM. It's almost as fast as Snow Leopard for me. If you have a preffered method of testing speed, I still have a Snow Leopard partition (and Lion, and even Windows 8) and I will gladly test it for you.

It's a mere $20 for users. What difference does it make what Apple makes? Everyone is well aware of the price Apple charges. This is no different. Are you saying that Apple developers should work for free? Not charge for a years worth of work by hundreds of developers?

Yes a kernel upgrade makes the os that much better, I am sorry to say.

I don't want you to test it for me man, I ll just wait for the various pc rags to test it, thanks though, honestly. Can you solve a conundrum I have? Lion slowed my 24" core 2 duo imac to an uprecedented extent. I have two of them. One with sl, and the other with lion. One flies, the other is the slowest system I 've worked on. I migrated to lion cause I wanted to keep my mobile me account btw in icloud. Now what should I do, apple don't support this mac, should I stay with the dreadful lion? Should I hack my way up to ml?

On to your last point: Like I said, I think no one in their right mind thinks this warrants a billion dollars. No they shouldn't work for free, but their work should be appropriately priced. You know much ms charges for any recently bought 7 system to upgrade to 8? $14. And it's a software that's been years in development, it's not a bunch of bug fixes and enhancements, and apps for notes and reminders. It's a software that's faster than 7, which was already faster than vista and (to a large extent) xp.

And another thing, since they switched to a yearly cycle (good luck to all of us with that btw...) how come they are not charging for ios upgrades and they are charging for os x upgrades?

----------

True, but not previously released little patches Yes it's semantics, and it's silly. I guess you could say that this should be free since Apple could've waited 2 years and released this instead of Lion, but... Idk. Personally I think the fixes and added bits are worth $20, but I can see how for others it is not.

they probably would have waited for 2 years if lion wasn't such a fiasco.

They 've rushed this out the door for damage control, it's apparent by everything.

Mountain lion was meant to be a new snow leopard and they 've not even managed to upgrade the kernel to where ios is right now the way they rushed it out the door.

Every "feature" added sounds like a poor excuse to just get something shipped and put lion behind them.

Quite a few people from the os x team would have been without jobs had Steve been around, that's for sure.

 

[cvaldes]

Heck I remember using iTunes, 9 I think? on a PowerPC running Leopard. You can usually run iTunes on older machines for a good while.

The current version of iTunes (10.6.3) is officially supported by Apple to run on a PPC G4 machine with OS 10.5.8. Playing a standard definition video requires a 1.0GHz G4 processor and 512MB of RAM.

Heck, a 12" PowerBook G4 (2004) can run the current iTunes.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Oh no, it's $20 on top of the $30 that Lion cost! That makes it, uh, almost 50% the cost of the cheapest Windows 7 upgrade if you count from Snow Leopard! (Yes, Microsoft finally figure it out and will charge a lot less for Windows 8.)

I have a Core 2 Duo iMac purchased in late 2006. It came with Tiger.

To upgrade to Leopard cost $129 (although I spent $189 for the "Family Pack" because I had five machines to install it on, which makes it drop to ~$38 per machine.)
To upgrade to Snow Leopard cost $29 (again, I paid for the Family Pack to upgrade the Intel machines (three of 'em), $49 - or ~$15 per machine.)
To upgrade to Lion (only one machine capable of running Lion) cost $29.

That is a total upgrade cost of (for one machine only) $187, or a "Family Pack" price for up to five machines of $267.

(Which, when you amortize it out to the amount I paid per machine I installed each on, $82 to reach Lion on one machine, $53 each for three machines to reach Snow Leopard, and $38 each for two machines to reach Leopard. (Admittedly, both Leopard machines started with versions prior to Tiger, too.)

By contrast, my *ONE* Windows Vista Ultimate upgrade cost $260, followed by my *ONE* Windows 7 Ultimate upgrade which was free from Microsoft through a promotion. So my one Windows gaming system, even with a free second upgrade (which should have cost $220,) cost only $7 less than upgrading all my Macs from Tiger to the latest releases up through Lion.

My Windows laptop cost $150 to upgrade to Windows Vista Business, then another $140 to upgrade to Windows 7 Professional. My Media Center PC cost $110 to upgrade to Windows Vista Home Premium, and I got a sale on the Windows 7 Home Premium, only $70.

Before you bitch about $20, try putting it in perspective. The extra features may seem like "only a service pack" to you, but there are enough new features to warrant it being a new release to most people - even if only a $20 new release.

Also remember that first-generation iPod touch users had to pay $9.95 to get from iPhone OS 1.x to iPhone OS 2.x! And another $4.95 to get to iOS 3!

 

[Comeagain?]

Y man, I ll just wait for the various pc rags to test it, thanks though, honestly. Can you solve a conundrum I have? Lion slowed my 24" core 2 duo imac to an uprecedented extent. I have two of them. One with sl, and the other with lion. One flies, the other is the slowest system I 've worked on. I migrated to lion cause I wanted to keep my mobile me account btw in icloud. Now what should I do, apple don't support this mac, should I stay with the dreadful lion? Should I hack my way up to ml?

Try it on ML first. That's my suggestion. If you can find reliable hacks for it, then go for it. It is faster.

 

[blow45]

http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html

Yeah. Merely just a service pack

scrolled through this is a few seconds, bug fixes and enhancements, exactly a service pack.

Let me sum all this up: a share button, airplay, a notes and reminders app. And chinese.

I am thrilled though about pinch to zoom in text edit! Wow, $20 well worth spent I say.

----------

Before you bitch about $20, try putting it in perspective. The extra features may seem like "only a service pack" to you, but there are enough new features to warrant it being a new release to most people - even if only a $20 new release.

Also remember that first-generation iPod touch users had to pay $9.95 to get from iPhone OS 1.x to iPhone OS 2.x! And another $4.95 to get to iOS 3!

What are the new features?

And I 'd still like to know, why isn't ios costing anything to upgrade? Seeing as the best development teams are in ios where most of the work is done, evidenced by darwin kernel first going to ios, how come one has to pay for os x?

What new features are there, other than airplay? Which should have gone into lion to begin with.

Your points on windows costs are well taken btw, with the small exception though is that apple has been mostly maintaining the os from leopard onwards, not really updating it.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Oh no, it's $20 on top of the $30 that Lion cost! That makes it, uh, almost 50% the cost of the cheapest Windows 7 upgrade if you count from Snow Leopard! (Yes, Microsoft finally figure it out and will charge a lot less for Windows 8.)

http://www.apple.com/osx/how-to-upgrade/

Step 2

"Make sure you have Lion or the latest version of Snow Leopard"

 

[JackieTreehorn]

scrolled through this is a few seconds, bug fixes and enhancements, exactly a service pack.

Let me sum all this up: a share button, airplay, a notes and reminders app. And chinese.

I am thrilled though about pinch to zoom in text edit! Wow, $20 well worth spent I say.

----------



What are the new features?

And I 'd still like to know, why isn't ios costing anything to upgrade? Seeing as the best development teams are in ios where most of the work is done, evidenced by darwin kernel first going to ios, how come one has to pay for os x?

What new features are there, other than airplay? Which should have gone into lion to begin with.

Your points on windows costs are well taken btw, with the small exception though is that apple has been mostly maintaining the os from leopard onwards, not really updating it.

- Gatekeeper
- Messages
- Notification Center
- Power Nap (admittedly, not for all)

To name just a few. Or do you believe that UAC and Aeroflip were also just service-pack addons for Windows?

 

[nuckinfutz]

Let me sum all this up: a share button, airplay, a notes and reminders app. And chinese.

I am thrilled though about pinch to zoom in text edit! Wow, $20 well worth spent I say

iCloud Document Library
Quicktime X Quick Sync encoding
Notification Center
Game Center
Dictation (with punctuation)
iMessage
Power Nap (Automatic software updates)
Time Machine supports multiple drives
Airplay mirroring
Sharing everywhere (easily)

Sounds like good stuff and easily worth $20 to me.

 

[mrbyu]

Is it faster than Lion? Lion performs horribly on my 2011 MBP

How the heck? On my 2011 MBA it was always lightning fast. I've never experienced any kind of lag (save for Safari's top pages screen )... Now I'm pretty sure that Lion really needs SSD to perform perfectly... and a clean install!

Maybe Mountain Lion will be better optimized to work correctly on hard drives as well.

 

[stiligFox]

Now I'm pretty sure that Lion really needs SSD to perform perfectly... and a clean install!

I always recommend a fresh install with no restore of any settings when a new OS comes out. I've noticed a lot of issues occur after upgrades, and things start getting muddled!

 

[sireShonBohn]

scrolled through this is a few seconds, bug fixes and enhancements, exactly a service pack.

Let me sum all this up: a share button, airplay, a notes and reminders app. And chinese.

I am thrilled though about pinch to zoom in text edit! Wow, $20 well worth spent I say.

The really lucky thing for Windows users was when they got that free Windows update of "Flame" spyware from the government. I have to say it's nice that they didn't have to pay for all the new capability that brought to their systems.

It's a grand new world you know, where we can all wonder about collusion between shady corporations like Microsoft and the government as they infiltrate our lives and spy on us in ways we really shouldn't have to think about. I guess that's the Microsoft way of updating your user experience.

 

[Korovka]

Does anybody fix the problem with non-Apple SSD (OCZ OCtane 1tb), which boots only in Safe mode (with Shift pressed)? It was in DP4 and now in GM. Apple won't fix it (I mailed hundred times about it both to Apple and to OCZ).

 

[icoffee]

1st: if you try to justify torrenting Mountain Lion by saying its a service pack (and never purchasing a copy) you are forgetting that thousands of people hours went into the new features and code.I can wait to go into your place of work and steal your newer product because it's just a small change from the previous one. Listen to yourselves, you already admitted that there was change!

2nd: While Mountain Lion might be what Lion should have been, that lame argument could be applied to anything. The 2008 model of my car "should have" been the 2012 model, Windows XP should have been 7, this Coca Cola should have been a Dr.Pepper (joking on that one)....do any of those arguments justify me stealing a newer and "superior" product? No. Upgrade you immoral fools and pay your dues.

3rd: Mountain Lion isn't just about those few apps. It's fast as hell and reminds me of those 10.4 Tiger days. There's a lot of change under the hood and all of the included apps have also been updated. This ain't a pig with some new lip gloss which is exactly what Win 8 is.

 

[bushido]

Likely not "Software Updates" will take you to the App Store "Updates Tab", you wont be able to update an application that you don't have a valid purchase for.

actually, the software updates work just fine without loggin in. they just share the same window as purchased mac store apps updates now

 

[NewAnger]

More like "for lack of a graphics card".

The real world impact of Moore's law has really lessened in the past few years. Unless you are a gamer or videographer, the impact of Core i7s just isn't apparent for the vast majority of web/email/office users. Apple is a hardware company, so they have to do *something* to get you to upgrade.

And this is not a reason for me to quit using my 2008 black MB. It's still as good as it was on day one and fits my purposes 100%. There are ways to get ML to install on a 2008 MB and I may try it but for now, my MB is perfect to me the way it is.

I'll install ML on my 2010 MB first.

 

[maclook]

And this is not a reason for me to quit using my 2008 black MB. It's still as good as it was on day one and fits my purposes 100%. There are ways to get ML to install on a 2008 MB and I may try it but for now, my MB is perfect to me the way it is.

I'll install ML on my 2010 MB first.

My 2007 Blackbook was still running perfectly when I upgraded to a 2011 MBA. The MBA is a massive step up from that MB but I could see myself still happily using the Blackbook had I never upgraded. I'm a little annoyed that both of my Macs have been stuck with Intel integrated graphics though....

 

[NewAnger]

My 2007 Blackbook was still running perfectly when I upgraded to a 2011 MBA. The MBA is a massive step up from that MB but I could see myself still happily using the Blackbook had I never upgraded. I'm a little annoyed that both of my Macs have been stuck with Intel integrated graphics though....

Well, I don't use my MBs for anything other than syncing with my iPhones/iPods and also using them for downloading HD Videos from iTunes.

My black MB just sits here connected to a 24" Samsung monitor serving up iTunes videos. That's it's only purpose it's had for the past year.

My 2010 MB is just for the syncing as I said and surfing. Don't need anything better and I can easily see myself using it for another two years or so.

 

[tmoerel]

No thumb drive. There is nowhere close you can't take a laptop to and download? Does anyone in the sticks have a laptop?

Yes....i know a bunch of photographers/videographers living in the bush in Africa which are using laptops. Nearest town is 300kms away. Internet they have is via GSM phone. No way you can download an OS over that!