10.8 GM Build out...

[JohnDoe98]

Let's see new features: airplay. period. (do you really want me to count in notes taking a divorce from mail and reminders taking a divorce from ical? how about facebook and twitter, or the messaging app and notifications?)

Lion's auto-save and versions alone was worth it for me. iCloud's better integration, Retina (HiDPI mode), Notification Center and PowerNap are make ML worth it alone. Everything else is added bonuses. To purchase that kind of functionality from third-party apps would have costs pretty much the exact same thing. I think your needs are very different from the majority of us.

I honestly do think and I am not trolling anyone here, that this is a service pack. I know it's tough to hear this for some of you guys, but I can't change my assessment of it because of that. It's a service pack to lion, rushed and presented out of the blue, to put lion behind them. Of course apple being apple would never admit they were issuing a service pack, so they just added a couple of mickey mouse ios like (how unexpected...) apps and functionalities, added airplay to ship a few more atvs too, and did their fixes and enhancements for lion. They didn't even manage to update it on par to the darwin kernel that ios has...

Yes, it is. But the Combo is a HUGE improvement on Snow Leopard. And if you count both packs together, there are tons of new features.

----------

yeah but a, ms's timeframe has been much wider, and b. 8 is a new os with much much progress over and under the hood over a long time of development, mountain lion is notes, twitter, airplay and growl, and game center. I don't think there's any comparison there. Maybe combined the two lions can be compared to windows 8, although they 'd still fall short I guess.

Windows 7 was released 2009. Windows 8? Let's compare ML vs Windows 8. I think Apple's offering is very competitive, and not only price wise. In what regard does ML fall short? And don't give me techy specs and stuff that is transparent to the overwhelming majority of people.

 

[50548]

Although I don't think Windows, in any form or version, is even remotely comparable to Mac OS since its inception, I must side with Blow45 on this one.

Repeating what I've written elsewhere: I want to make it clear that I am probably one of the most vocals "fanboys" out there, having converted at least 15 people to Mac over the last 5 years.

Moreover, I absolutely hate Windows in all its forms. However, the point I am trying to make is that Apple NEEDS to devote further resources to the OS X team in order to: (i) fix outstanding issues; (ii) come up with new features on the basis of experienced users' feedback, and NOT on automatic presumptions that whatever appears on iOS must be replicated on OS X.

I have also noted a number of other problems which are being either deliberately ignored by Apple, or for which there are no specific resources available, such as:

- the pathetic Airport Utility (the availability of version 5.6 notwithstanding);
- the even more pathetic OS X Server (or what remains of it);
- the less-than-ideal implementation and performance of OpenGL/GPU drivers;
- lack of built-in video codecs for Safari and QuickTime (why do I have to install the now-dead Perian for that?);
- lack of possibilities to tweak settings such as mouse polling rates (so as to avoid jumpy cursors in third-party mouses);
- resolution-independence options as referred to above - I mean, Apple has ALWAYS been at the forefront of handicapped people's needs - but now even Windows makes it easier to maximize UI elements as a whole;
- 64-bit awareness and multithreading across the board (I have EIGHT cores waiting to be used and only HandBrake or a handful of pro apps employ them!);
- basic Blu-Ray support (not that I care either, but why not?);
- dual/triple monitor unified desktop support;
- Safari memory leaks (not that I personally care with 16GB of RAM);
- iMessages' disk space bug (which ends up consuming all RAM plus all available space in the startup disk);
- better WebDAV and so on;
- a growing disregard for Apple UI standards across the board.

In other words, absolutely nothing relevant apart from iOS and Cloud-driven tweaks. No Finder revamp, no iTunes streamlining, no new file system, no expanded codec media support, no consistent UI, no new server tools. Sad to know. As for speed, Lion is already blazing fast on my iMac...so it seems to me ML should be a free upgrade.

So there you go; or do you really want me to care about on-screen reminders? For this we already have Growl. And you must all agree with me: Launchpad was definitely not Apple's finest hour, to be very polite.

 

[cgk.emu]

no one was personally attacked, it's the interwebs, it's a joke, have some humour, everything doesn't have to be so serious. I actually had a lot of fun writing that mock write home letter.

As for justifying my opinions, I thought I already did? You know this back and forth of arguments can drag on and on non stop. If I feel I have sufficiently covered my ground arguying about it, there's not much else I can add, is there?

Opinions don't need to be justified. Opinions are your free expression, many folks here don't get that.

 

[JohnDoe98]

- the pathetic Airport Utility (the availability of version 5.6 notwithstanding);

Agreed here. Airport Utility 6 sucks compared to the old 5.6. It got a little better in the last update but still disappointing it isn't fully-featured. And along the same lines, Quicktime X sucks compared to Quicktime 7 Pro. Serious what's taking so long to finally complete X so that we can send 7 to the trash bin?

- the even more pathetic OS X Server (or what remains of it);

Not competent to comment on this one.

- the less-than-ideal implementation and performance of OpenGL/GPU drivers;

Can you say more here? I thought OpenGL was fully supported.

- lack of built-in video codecs for Safari and QuickTime (why do I have to install the now-dead Perian for that?);

I'm not sure I agree on this one. Had you asked me one year ago I would have fully agreed. But now pretty much all videos I come across are using H.264 or x264. Also, though Perian will be discontinued, it still works perfectly well and will receive one more update. Frankly on this point I think web developers need to get with the program and just adopt h264 or x264 and html 5.

- lack of possibilities to tweak settings such as mouse polling rates (so as to avoid jumpy cursors in third-party mouses);

Shouldn't this be addressed by third-party software?

- resolution-independence options as referred to above - I mean, Apple has ALWAYS been at the forefront of handicapped people's needs - but now even Windows makes it easier to maximize UI elements as a whole;

In the Retina models this has pretty much been accomplished now hasn't it? And since all future Macs will likely be Retina, I'm not sure I understand this to be a big problem going forward.

- 64-bit awareness and multithreading across the board (I have EIGHT cores waiting to be used and only HandBrake or a handful of pro apps employ them!);

Um, all Apple software other than iWork which will likely receive an update upon ML's release is now 64bit, and most of it won't even benefit from multithreading. This sounds like a third-party developer problem so you will need to say more.

- basic Blu-Ray support (not that I care either, but why not?);

Screw Blu-Ray. I hope they focus their attention elsewhere, it's antiquated tech so far as I'm concerned.

- dual/triple monitor unified desktop support;

Fair enough.

- Safari memory leaks (not that I personally care with 16GB of RAM);

Safari 6 has memory leaks?

- iMessages' disk space bug (which ends up consuming all RAM plus all available space in the startup disk);

Haven't heard about this, is this present in ML GM?

- better WebDAV and so on;

Don't know anything about this, so can't comment.

- a growing disregard for Apple UI standards across the board.

Point taken, though I obviously disagree.

And you must all agree with me: Launchpad was definitely not Apple's finest hour, to be very polite.

I most certainly do not. Launchpad is wonderful. I'd be happy to rid myself of the Dock entirely; so far as I'm concerned, the Dock is now entirely antiquated. I wish ML had an option to hide it permanently.

 

[Killa Aaron]

Although I don't think Windows, in any form or version, is even remotely comparable to Mac OS since its inception, I must side with Blow45 on this one.

Repeating what I've wrote elsewhere before: I want to make it clear that I am probably one of the most vocals "fanboys" out there, having converted at least 15 people to Mac over the last 5 years.

Moreover, I absolutely hate Windows in all its forms. However, the point I am trying to make is that Apple NEEDS to devote further resources to the OS X team in order to: (i) fix outstanding issues; (ii) come up with new features on the basis of experienced users' feedback, and NOT on automatic presumptions that whatever appears on iOS must be replicated on OS X.

I have also noted a number of other problems which are being either deliberately ignored by Apple, or for which there are no specific resources available, such as:

- the pathetic Airport Utility (the availability of version 5.6 notwithstanding);
- the even more pathetic OS X Server (or what remains of it);
- the less-than-ideal implementation and performance of OpenGL/GPU drivers;
- lack of built-in video codecs for Safari and QuickTime (why do I have to install the now-dead Perian for that?);
- lack of possibilities to tweak settings such as mouse polling rates (so as to avoid jumpy cursors in third-party mouses);
- resolution-independence options as referred to above - I mean, Apple has ALWAYS been at the forefront of handicapped people's needs - but now even Windows makes it easier to maximize UI elements as a whole;
- 64-bit awareness and multithreading across the board (I have EIGHT cores waiting to be used and only HandBrake or a handful of pro apps employ them!);
- basic Blu-Ray support (not that I care either, but why not?);
- dual/triple monitor unified desktop support;
- Safari memory leaks (not that I personally care with 16GB of RAM);
- iMessages' disk space bug (which ends up consuming all RAM plus all available space in the startup disk);
- better WebDAV and so on;
- a growing disregard for Apple UI standards across the board.

In other words, absolutely nothing relevant apart from iOS and Cloud-driven tweaks. No Finder revamp, no iTunes streamlining, no new file system, no expanded codec media support, no consistent UI, no new server tools. Sad to know. As for speed, Lion is already blazing fast on my iMac...so it seems to me ML should be a free upgrade.

So there you go; or do you really want me to care about on-screen reminders? For this we already have Growl. And you must all agree with me: Launchpad was definitely not Apple's finest hour, to be very polite.

That Messages bug is no joke, i was like WTF is making my iMac so slow. I eventually had to open Activity Monitor just to kill off the process from leeching the resources.

Haven't heard about this, is this present in ML GM?

Yes it is.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Opinions don't need to be justified. Opinions are your free expression, many folks here don't get that.

Even prejudiced opinions like bigotry, sexism, racism? No, all opinions should be justified, or at the least, justifiable. No one can stop you from forming the opinions you do, but we sure as well can scold you for not only having them but expressing them, and we ought to whenever we have that opportunity.

 

[cgk.emu]

Even prejudiced opinions like bigotry, sexism, racism? No, all opinions should be justified, or at the least, justifiable. No one can stop you from forming the opinions you do, but we sure as well can scold you for not only having them but expressing them, and we ought to whenever we have that opportunity.

Come on, go preach somewhere else. His comments weren't in the slightest racist, bigoted, sexist, or anything of the sort. We are talking about COMPUTERS here, get real man. STOP TAKING IT SO SERIOUSLY.

 

[fat jez]

Actually I can't think of any way of how this isn't a service pack.

Because I've yet to see a Service Pack that lets you do a full clean install of an OS? Usually it's fixes to an existing software installation.

 

[iBug2]

Because I've yet to see a Service Pack that lets you do a full clean install of an OS? Usually it's fixes to an existing software installation.

Bah, again with this service pack nonsense? What's a service pack and what's a new OS? Where do you draw the line? SL wasn't even a service pack imho and it didn't really have many new consumer oriented features.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Come on, go preach somewhere else. His comments weren't in the slightest racist, bigoted, sexist, or anything of the sort. We are talking about COMPUTERS here, get real man. STOP TAKING IT SO SERIOUSLY.

Regardless of subject, some opinions are best left unsaid, like for example when people post factual inaccuracies regarding computers. If you didn't want me commenting on your opinion, you shouldn't have posted it. Now let's stop derailing the thread.

 

[dyn]

.
- the pathetic Airport Utility (the availability of version 5.6 notwithstanding);

Version 6 seems like a work in progress which is rather annoying. Get it done THEN ship it.

- the even more pathetic OS X Server (or what remains of it);

Apple never ever did a good job in this area. They should have dropped it some time ago and went for open source stuff like OpenLDAP and the Windows version: Active Directory. Especially the latter is very import. They could then have ditched the entire server and Xsan line including OS X Server and get those folks on the project to integrate with other systems.

- lack of built-in video codecs for Safari and QuickTime (why do I have to install the now-dead Perian for that?);

That is something we've had for years now. Never really understood why you couldn't install additional codecs like in Linux and Windows. There simply do not seem to be a lot of Mac codecs around.

- lack of possibilities to tweak settings such as mouse polling rates (so as to avoid jumpy cursors in third-party mouses);

This is actually a Windows-UNIX problem. Windows does it completely different from UNIX stuff. Windows users who switch to Linux or OS X find the mouse polling on Linux/OS X to be annoying but people from Linux/OS X switching to Windows find the Windows one to be extremely annoying. I switched from Windows to Linux/FreeBSD to OS X/FreeBSD and I find the Windows one to be very awkward. The UNIX polling is very predictable and allows for very accurate and quick mousing. The Windows one is jumpy, it makes the mouse go everywhere. It feels like it is the root cause of RSI.

- resolution-independence options as referred to above

That'll be the day. You can go out and buy any Mac you want and have the letters as big as you want. No more squinting because the letters are too small! Apple only seems to care for people who are blind, the ones with bad eyesight are left in the cold.

- 64-bit awareness and multithreading across the board

If by that you mean apps like Aperture, iMovie and such then I'm with you. We have the computing power and those apps can use it so why not let them? From what I see with Final Cut Pro X they are able to do it and probably will in time. Fingers crossed!

- dual/triple monitor unified desktop support;

Haven't they now got this in Mountain Lion?

- Safari memory leaks (not that I personally care with 16GB of RAM);

That and the numerous security bugs in it as well. Hey, maybe they should simply ditch it, that would be the easiest

- better WebDAV and so on;

Better WebDAV, better FTP in Finder but also better and more VPN options and firewalling (use pf or ipfw instead of that ubercrappy appfirewall!).

So there you go; or do you really want me to care about on-screen reminders? For this we already have Growl.

Unfortunately yes. Growl and its developers shoot be banned from this planet. It is definitely NOT a central place for notifications unless you consider all of your displays hooked up to the Mac as being the centre... It just puts up those obtrusive alerts everywhere disrupting you from doing what you were doing. Luckily Notification Centre in Mountain Lion is smarter than that and doesn't show this behaviour. It is what Growl should have been in the first place.

And yes, it is hilarious when somebody has set up Growl to notify him whenever he's being highlighted on IRC. This allows for some nice teamwork by continuously highlighting the person. After such a session most people uninstalled Growl because they couldn't do anything on the machine any more

And you must all agree with me: Launchpad was definitely not Apple's finest hour, to be very polite.

Not sure about this one though. The problem with /Applications is that some apps and the MAS depend on it quite heavily. Any changes you do there can cause strange problems later on. With Launchpad you have the luxury of making nearly any change you want without affecting the contents in /Applications and therefore not running the risk of causing strange problems later on. The only problem is that they left out one very import functionality in Lion: search in Launchpad. You can search in /Applications, use letters to find the app so this should at least be in Launchpad. Luckily it now is. As long as it searches only on the page you are looking at that is (else it would be like Spotlight and that would be useless because we already have that). I hope somebody hear can clear this one up!

 

[csalm87]

Mountain Lion GM edition runs like a cheetah (VERY FAST) here, but I disabled all the useless features like:
* GateKeeper
* Notification centre
* Time Machine
* Spotlight
* Automatic updates
... and everything else I don't need or use (and runs in background) with my DAW based Mac (Cubase, Live and Reason).
LOVE IT

These features might be useless to you, but Time Machine and Spotlight are EXTREMELY useful for me. Also when Facebook integration is included in the fall Notification Center will be awesome too.

----------

f anyone is on the Gold Master of MT Lion; can you please let me know if they brought back the "Activity" in the New Safari? In Safari, under Window - Activity...! Thanks! =)

Huh. I didn't even realize it's not present in the current version. What do ya know.

 

[dyn]

I read somewhere that the "activity" window is now part of the web inspector (you need to activate the develop menu for that).

 

[monkeybagel]

Windows 7 was released 2009. Windows 8? Let's compare ML vs Windows 8. I think Apple's offering is very competitive, and not only price wise. In what regard does ML fall short? And don't give me techy specs and stuff that is transparent to the overwhelming majority of people.

This is very worrisome for me. We can blame google for this starting with Chrome - but the whole idea of a rapid release cycle for a commercial OS is for the birds. Compared to Microsoft, Apple does not support their OS very long at all. 10.5 has virtually zero support now, and is the only option for PowerPC users (that want OS X). 10.5 was released October 26, 2007 and is not even five years old. Many new applications will not run on it, including x86 applications.

Windows Vista was released on November 2006. It will be supported until April 11, 2017 and will receive security updates. Vista is not one of Microsoft's good releases, but they do stand behind it.

My fear is that Apple will start a minor annual update for OS X, and if you are either not on the current version or the one behind it, you will be deal new applications that will not be compatible. If you upgrade to the current version, some of your current applications with break. VMware Fusion does not run on Mountain Lion right now (unless you are running the beta of Fusion). Microsoft Office 2011 is horribly slow (not aware of a fix to that). Apple apps are fine, as expected. If you don't upgrade to the current OS X, you will not be able to run cutting edge applications. If you do upgrade, you will break some applications that you use and depend on now and will have to wait and perhaps pay for newer versions.

Snow Leopard was the last version of OS X that really did full screen well for multiple monitors. I am sure that there are some people still on it for that reason alone. I no longer have multiple monitors on my Macintosh so I can't test it on Mountain Lion, but I just see the platform becoming fragmented. They are taking a rapid release cycle idea from google's playbook, and will be getting the horrible fragmentation from google's playbook to go along with it if they are not careful.

 

[50548]

That Messages bug is no joke, i was like WTF is making my iMac so slow. I eventually had to open Activity Monitor just to kill off the process from leeching the resources.

Yes it is.

In my post I was just talking about Lion - now you are saying that such NASTY iMessages bug is STILL present in ML? So things are even worse than I'd thought...

 

[Killa Aaron]

In my post I was just talking about Lion - now you are saying that such NASTY iMessages bug is STILL present in ML? So things are even worse than I'd thought...

yep it's still present, but it's hard to reproduce.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

- 64-bit awareness and multithreading across the board (I have EIGHT cores waiting to be used and only HandBrake or a handful of pro apps employ them!);

no new file system

no consistent UI

Multithread support needs to come application-side, this is NOT an OS issue.

Huh? Why would they introduce a new filesystem just for the sake of it? Marketing? What issues do you have with the current one?

No consistent UI? Rubbish. Maybe less than before (I don't know), but to say "no" is just simply untrue and trolling. Name ONE widely available desktop UI which has greater consistency than OS X.

 

[blow45]

Huh? Why would they introduce a new filesystem just for the sake of it? Marketing? What issues do you have with the current one?

if every company had the same cult following they would rationalize any lack of development away, of course they would end up doing the same kind of close to non existent development that apple are doing to os x, because they would be able to rely on said "fans" to get away with it.

But this fairy tale changes when it's up to third party hardware providers that apple use. Then it's apple pushes technology forward with (lg, sharp's, samsungs) retina, apple is pushing technology forward with (samsung's, toshiba's) ssds, etc. etc.

I wonder if the same type of software development mentality share by apple and every other dime a dozen apple apologist was shared by apple's hardware makers were we'd be now:

Retina, what the hell do we need retina for? Isn't 1080p enough? Just how small pixels do you need to have, What issues do you have with the current i5 cpu, pretty fast hd, pretty fast ssd, pretty great display?
Why bother?

But at the same time you get to hear, why should they develop a new fs, just for marketing? Cause of course unlike sticking on someone else's retina display, a new fs, requires effort and money spent, and time, and hard software problems to solve. It doesn't just require using your clout to bully a few manufacturers around for whoever gives you the best price and sticking that on your device and making 50% margin products...

While at the same time apple has stayed with an archaic kernel, one of the worst modern programming languages in terms of memory management, amongst other things, an old as dust fs with patch ups etc. etc. And it's always throw more hardware to the problem, cause anyway we need to obsolete those old macs so they buy more.

Can't figure out how to do resolution independence effectively? No problemo scale up to twice the resolution and adjust it to the screen size, nvidia makes great gpus anyway... then what happens? The retina macbook pro lags, wow? Who'd have thunk that, who 'd have thunk that apple would be doing piss poor software development with the 200-strong people they got going for os x (when half of them are not shifted to work on ios that is)...

I ll repeat it once gain, os x, these days, in terms of evolving, in terms of proper software development os x is a joke. I don't think I d use anything else but os x (although recently I have very much started contemplating switching to windows or nix) but to talk about software DEVELOPMENT and os x, this is the biggest most profitable joke of the last 4 years.

Enjoy your notes and reminders apps btw...

 

[nuckinfutz]

Ojective C now ranks 4th in a list of the most popular programming languages


Makes sense. The work done to replacing "old man" GCC was done in quick order. LLVM/LLDB and other tools will form the future of iOS and OS X development. Good times.

I think we see a new filesystem soon (within two OS X revisions). It may have been beneficial to wait because SSD is revamping how computing architecture is managed at the storage level. I think whatever comes will be optimal for Apple's uses. ZFS is nice but it's really Enterprise level and what may be needed for Apple is something that is a bit less ambitious and focused on Apple's mix of products which is 60% mobile.

I can't really fault Apple. They're executing well on their strategy. We've come a long way from the times of Yellow Box, Red Box and the two headed monster that was Carbon and Cocoa.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

an old as dust fs with patch ups etc. etc.

What was that? a few hundred words? Not once did you bring up a single problem with the existing filesystem. You then proceed to argue 10 points which have nothing to do with my question regarding filesystems.

You're drawing analogies between my asking about why we need a new filesystem with why should we have a higher res on a screen or a higher CPU clock?

Firstly, those are trivialities and are things which increase incrementally over time. They are "nice to haves".

What characteristics do I and every other user with half a brain want in a filesystem? Stability and maturity. Following after this would be compatibility. A completely new filesystem most definitely is not mature or compatible (by definition) and they are almost never production-level stable. Being on the bleeding edge with regards to filesystems is a really good way to kiss your data goodbye.

What you derisively refer to as "old as dust", I refer to as "mature".

NTFS (Windows default FS) was originally introduced in 1993. EXTx (the default Linux FS), originates from it's first release in 1992. HFS+ (OS X default FS) was introduced in 1998.

Even putting aside the fact that your trolling/ignorant argument regarding filesystem age falls apart given the FS of both Linux and Windows are significantly older, are you seeing a pattern here with regards to the age of filesystems? Do you think there might be a reason why these programmers, who are far more educated on the topic than yourself are choosing to do this?

In any area of Information Technology, whether it is programming, databases, webdesign/hosting, project work, consultancy, OS, hardware design, algorithms ... ANYTHING... the biggest mistake you can make is to mess with people's data. By this I mean steal/lose/corrupt/expose. It is the golden rule and once broken, it is almost impossible to gain their trust back entirely. In the end, people don't care about CPU clock speed which is 100Mhz faster, or broken hardware which is covered by warranty and they will forgive you for almost anything except messing with their data.

This is why people who make filesystems are EXTREMELY conservative when it comes to filesystem development.

So, with these things in mind, are you able to form even one well thought out argument as to what is lacking in HFS+ which would necessitate the need for an entirely new filesystem?

 

[blow45]

I was just writing a full reply to you, then I cmd x it, if you think you merit a reply calling me and every user with a half brain, you live in your bubble. You can continue enjoying your little bubble world then, seeing as you are very satisfied in thinking you are correct. Of course if you talked like that face to face to me you 'd probably be in a ditch or something, but it's the interwebs so anything goes I guess.

let me tell you something bubble boy, how many data corruption cases have been noted with the third party zfs add on. Yeah that's right zero. How many users data did flashback expose, oh about 500,000 people's. So much for messing with people's data, and exposing them like you said. You know where apple went running to after that mess happened, karperski, where the real security programming goes on. Not the joke one in os x. If lg, samsung, intel, amd etc. etc. had taken the same lackadaisical approach to their hardware that apple is taking with their software we 'd still be using 100gb hard drives and pentiums. Apple can by kasperski, every kasperski on the solar system, and probably in our inhabited galaxy. Yet they haven't. Their approach to software development in os x, has been a joke. Unlike the approach of their hardware suppliers which have had intense research and concentrated efforts put in their work. You can't shift teams back and forth ios and os x, cause you won't be able to even get os x to the latest darwin kernel...

You see now why you are talking from somewhere else other than your mouth, and don't take this the wrong way, I mean you are talking from the position of an apple zealot.

 

[544263]

Hooray…..

Just released, 10.8 GM build.

Downloading as I type….

Sounds cool, but isn't. I just went back to 10.7 because i have to sacrify too many important small little details i love (battery remaining time in menu, apple+ctrl+alt+8 to invert screen colors, visual feedback in Apple Mail while downloading mails, buggy left sidebar in finder ... ).

I really do think dictation and airplay are cool features, but why would i want to give up a perfectly working system for such not-very-often-used ones.

I'd prefer a solution to make dictation + AirPlay work on 10.7 and i'll be happy ...

 

[SlCKB0Y]

I was just writing a full reply to you, then I cmd x it, if you think you merit a reply calling me and every user with a half brain

I didn't say you had only half a brain. I said:

What characteristics do I and every other user with half a brain want in a filesystem? Stability and maturity.

Presumably you want stability and maturity in a filesystem and if this is the case, then I was not referring to you as a half brain. Please try and follow this basic logic.

How many users data did flashback expose, oh about 500,000 people's.

Flashback is not a filesystem and has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

See this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I mean you are talking from the position of an apple zealot.

I'm not an Apple zealot. I have a degree in Computer Science, I've worked for a number of years as a system administrator in a Linux environment with about a thousand physical servers and many times this virtualised.. To a much lesser degree I work on Windows server, FreeBSD and Solaris.

At home I use Android on phones and tablets, Linux on servers and OS X on my laptop dual booted with Windows 7. I've used Linux extensively since about 1997. I have never owned an iOS device and apart from an iBook I had for a year in 2004/2005, I've used OS X for only the last year. This makes me an Apple zealot?

Bottom line is, you simply do not have a well thought out argument as to what is lacking in HFS+ which would necessitate the need for an entirely new filesystem

You've tried to make excuses not to address this, you've tried to misrepresent my argument, dismissed my well thought out response as being the product of an "Apple zealot". You've name called, even threatened a complete stranger on the internet with physical violence and pretty soon you'll pull out the last weapon in the troll arsenal which is to ignore my questions all together..

What you haven't done is provided a well thought out argument as to what is lacking in HFS+ which would necessitate the need for an entirely new filesystem....because you've got nothing. You haven't even been able to name one feature or issue which would require this.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

Of course if you talked like that face to face to me you 'd probably be in a ditch or something, but it's the interwebs so anything goes I guess.

See any similarity??

 

[blow45]

I think I missed that reply on how many data corruption cases third party zfs has caused to the mac platform, their support forums surely don't evidence any.

Flashback wasn't a straw man at all, I answered your point that apple is taking care to not have user data be "stolen/.../exposed" that's why they are being careful to not implement a new fs.

If they are being so careful about user data, and this is the reason for not moving ahead with a new fs (cause I thought it was partly to do with coughing it up to sun...) how come flashback exposed 500,000 users data, stole 500,000 users data, and they then went crying to karpserski.

This is my larger argument, and it's validated, that on the whole they are not developing their software, they are simply maintaining it and doing so poorly, whenever they can get some resources off of ios to work on it.

(btw, you know people would take you more seriously if you dropped the condescension with linking straw man arguments in wiki)

In terms of what is lacking in hfs+, I am not going to give you a list of say the advances of zfs over hfs+ since you know how to use wiki you can look them up, I am just going to reverse the question for you. What is/was missing from i5 for consumer notebooks that intel has to come up with a new iteration of the cpu in a short time? CPU developments could stop where they are the average consumer won't notice. But intel continues to develop their hardware, unlike apple that for a long time has been sitting on their butt in terms of real os development, at least for the last 3-4 years and just throwing more hardware to it, more flashy slap on features, and some minimal maintenance and optimization. This is stagnation.

And it's well evident why it's happening because they don't really care, they will sell the macs anyway without hiring more people, without doing more complex software development, with keeping the same small teams shifting back and forth from ios, with being a step back in the kernel than ios.

Their hardware makers though, do care, because their livelihood depends on developing their products, so apple can slap them on a mac or an ipad and claim they are moving technology forward. As for the world's most advanced os? It's actually the world's least advanced consumer os, legacy os's exempted.