Yeah in normal use I don't think the ghosting is an issue for me. It's about equal to my Phillips 4k monitor. I think Apple should make an OLED laptop honestly. I wonder what the ghosting on the XDR is like.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
16" MacBook Pro ghosting / smearing...
- Thread starter StONE_ROdGEr
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Am I right in thinking, that outside scrolling, this is a non-issue?
I.e. when it comes to tv/movies/animation - it should be fine because televisions have much lower response rates than even the slowest monitors/computer screens?
Apologies if that's a stupid/silly/incorrect, I know jack about screen tech.
I.e. when it comes to tv/movies/animation - it should be fine because televisions have much lower response rates than even the slowest monitors/computer screens?
Apologies if that's a stupid/silly/incorrect, I know jack about screen tech.
Well, just a couple of days into the ownership of the Y740 and I'm already running into a litany of strange problems. External displays just occasionally won't work, sometimes the trackpad won't work until seemingly some sort of driver starts up, the keyboard will randomly forget my lighting settings and go back to rainbow barf. Sometimes the screen will just flicker. The panel appears to have been mounted *slightly* to the left in the frame. The battery isn't even lasting longer than an hour and a half with *just a web browser open on 75% screen brightness*. Yeah, I guess there's no such thing as a perfect laptop.
Last night I went to the Apple store figuring that if I could see any sort of "ghosting" that would bother me, I'd walk out and figure something else out. Guys- I just couldn't. Even when I really tried, I just couldn't see any difference between the panel on the 16" and the 13" right beside it in the store. I think this problem lies on the very edge of what's perceptible to the naked eye. Maybe I just have bad eyes, but I picked up a 16" and I have no regrets thus far.
Last night I went to the Apple store figuring that if I could see any sort of "ghosting" that would bother me, I'd walk out and figure something else out. Guys- I just couldn't. Even when I really tried, I just couldn't see any difference between the panel on the 16" and the 13" right beside it in the store. I think this problem lies on the very edge of what's perceptible to the naked eye. Maybe I just have bad eyes, but I picked up a 16" and I have no regrets thus far.
This is the important thing. If it doesn’t bother you, that’s fantastic. Sounds like a much better machine! ?
I wish I could join you, but once you notice it you ain’t not gonna notice it ?. Glad you’re happy with your purchase. Here’s hoping the 13/14” this year will be better for me.
I wish I could join you, but once you notice it you ain’t not gonna notice it ?. Glad you’re happy with your purchase. Here’s hoping the 13/14” this year will be better for me.
Yeah, luckily I can’t seem to notice it even when I’m desperately trying to, so I think I’m in the clear. I also can’t see the difference between 144 and 240hz monitors, though, so maybe I just have bad eyes lol.
It seems like it’s probably something certain people are sensitive to like PWM flicker on OLEDs.
Are you looking at this website in dark mode? It’s impossible to not notice it if you scroll at a medium speed. I didn’t notice ghosting before either but now that I know about it I see it on lcd’s everywhere
I notice the normal artifacting that I see on all 60hz screens. That was honestly my biggest point of contention with the accounts in this thread until it became as widespread and accepted of a problem as it has- if someone tells you to look for trailing on any 60hz panel you will be able to see it. That’s why I think some of the testing that’s been going outside of just the anecdotal evidence has been very important to determining whether it’s a real issue. I would still love to see one of these Slow-Mo UFO tests of the 16” compared to a panel with a similar response time like an XPS 15.
Tried to test with this thread in dark mode compared a 2019 13” and I definitely do see what you guys are talking about. I believe you now- it’s certainly a “real” phenomenon. Still doesn’t bother me much and I don’t think I would’ve ever noticed it being any worse than the older models if I hadn’t been looking for it specifically. I wouldn’t call it a “defect” from what I can tell, it seems to be in line with other professional (read:non-gaming) laptop offerings from competitors. I may stop by Best Buy later and recreate the slow mo ufo test on some high end Dell and HP offerings to compare.
Whats the terminal command to check the presumed “batch” again? I can’t find it anymore because it’s buried so far back in this thread lol.
Whats the terminal command to check the presumed “batch” again? I can’t find it anymore because it’s buried so far back in this thread lol.
I have now tested several 16" and it seems to be small difference between them.
It seems that most tests are conducted via testufo.com. My experience, after 20-25 tests (MBP 2013-2019 13"-16"), it is simpler to scroll white text slowly on black background, i.e forums.macrumors.com.
It easy to see differents when the reference MBP (2013/13") is standing beside the test MBP.
The 2013/13" has no, or very little, blur when scrolling text slowly. Some of my 16" test machines has blurry text but not all which surprise me a lot.
Needless to say that it would be smashing if Apple has any ideas why some 16" looks not too bad and others 16 are bad. Not extremely bad I may add, but you can spot the different.
It seems that most tests are conducted via testufo.com. My experience, after 20-25 tests (MBP 2013-2019 13"-16"), it is simpler to scroll white text slowly on black background, i.e forums.macrumors.com.
It easy to see differents when the reference MBP (2013/13") is standing beside the test MBP.
The 2013/13" has no, or very little, blur when scrolling text slowly. Some of my 16" test machines has blurry text but not all which surprise me a lot.
Needless to say that it would be smashing if Apple has any ideas why some 16" looks not too bad and others 16 are bad. Not extremely bad I may add, but you can spot the different.
@stephanc, I agree that it's simpler to scroll through text to observe the smudging issue (and yes it's an issue if you use this laptop to surf the web and scroll through texts). Compared to the first gen retina screens there is a lot more blurring now on the MBP 16 inch (at least on my machine). Strangely enough I saw a recent 15" MBP yesterday and the screen performed quite well compared to a first gen retina screen (ie. no observable blurring), although I saw previous posts and threads on the same issue (blurring) on previous 15" models. Again, some people observed it on their 15" while others weren't able to see it. You stated that some of your 16" test machines have more or less blurry text, is there any chance you can record the difference side by side on video? Also, I would be interested to know which panels are used in the different machines (SJA-1 through SJA-4). Anyway, for me it's a bummer to see that a first gen MBP retina screen easily outperforms the newest 16" MBP on motion blur when scrolling through texts.
The best 16" yet tested was in Stockholm this Christmas. I am situated in Norway. However I will go to Sweden this weekend and see if I can find any MBPs to test.
In fact if you scroll through text you will notice that scrolling is not completely fluent (ie. like there are some frames missing in between and there is some ), but this has been the case for years now and it doesn't bother me either. The real issue (at least for me) is the pixel blur when scrolling. A higher frame rate like 120 Hz would make the transitions smoother but would not solve the motion blur. This has to do with LCD panel response times and given the different opinions it seems that not everyone seems to have a screen with the same slow response times. If I compare a mid-2012 MBP there is no observable motion blur, on the 2019 16 inch however, text blurring is easy to observe even for the untrained eye. My son has a cheap Asus non-gaming laptop and even his screen has no text blurring issues. Either some of us are stuck with a specific slow performing panel while other have a normal function panel or people got used to this blur effect over the years on Macbook pro.
Everyone has a screen with a low rrsponse time and some people are more sensitive to it than others. I wouldn’t have even notified it if it hadn’t been brought up since I was used to LCD ghosting
My old friend, the Cinema-screen 27", is also blurring now. Not much but little. I have never notice it before since start to use it. Maybe 8 years ago. My thought is: when you know what to look for you can spot it everywhere.
If your eyes are not sensitive they will be sensitive after reading this thread.
If anything, for me, this thread has highlighted how many people don't perceive this stuff naturally ?
Compared the 16"mbp to my 4k ips monitor and I can't tell much of a difference. Can see a little blur on the expose animations but that's it .
While I haven't seen any worse ghosting on the 16" personally, the uniformity is atrocious. Called today as it's the last day of the return period and I"m bailing. Can't do advanced exchange and at this price point I've gotten one with keyboard issues and the other with display and both the speakers pop on them.
Will wait for the next gen to release and revert back to a clean install on my 2016 15" 2 TB model. 16" is on the left with the light bleed under the camera and the bottom left corner a ripple in the backlight. The right is the 15" and as you can see is uniform. The corners aren't that bad and both at max brightness.
Will wait for the next gen to release and revert back to a clean install on my 2016 15" 2 TB model. 16" is on the left with the light bleed under the camera and the bottom left corner a ripple in the backlight. The right is the 15" and as you can see is uniform. The corners aren't that bad and both at max brightness.
^^^Those are both terrible, you're kidding yourself if you think the one on the right is uniform.
The one on the right is over exposed so the corners aren’t like that in real life. It’s a smidge brighter. But yes, Apple displays overall are crap. Won’t argue that point. But in day to day life it’s never at full brightness and looks uniform. Normal every day use the 16” issues can be seen.
But that’s apple for you. Charge a premium and deliver something less. One of the reasons I no longer feel bad about multiple returns. Garbage in, garbage comes back to Apple.
Such as scrolling on a dark background and seeing the light bleed ad mid brightness from the top of the display in light outdoor conditions. If its was minor you wouldn't see it in normal day viewing, but you can.
I spoke to Apple yesterday and they set the return up, and are trying to work with me on getting a new unit. It is a positive when you can get some people who are intelligent and interested to resolve your problem and fingers crossed I get a unit that is w/out defect.