16" MacBook Pro ghosting / smearing...

[katastropoulos]

I noticed a difference in what is referred to as "smearing".
Early december I bought the base Core i9 MacBook Pro 16" and noticed this effect because it was mentioned here in the forum. It did not bother me at all but was quite noticeable especially in dark mode.

I sent the machine back because it was crazy loud and ordered the same base Core i9 MacBook Pro again two days ago. The new model is still quite loud when connected to an external 4K monitor but the "smearing" is reduced noticeably in comparison to the model I got early december.

So I can confirm that there are different displays in these laptops, interesting. I am not sure if I will keep this one, I bought it directly from Apple and will test it for a week before coming to a conclusion.

I primarily use it for software development.

 

[Donnation]

I noticed a difference in what is referred to as "smearing".
Early december I bought the base Core i9 MacBook Pro 16" and noticed this effect because it was mentioned here in the forum. It did not bother me at all but was quite noticeable especially in dark mode.

I sent the machine back because it was crazy loud and ordered the same base Core i9 MacBook Pro again two days ago. The new model is still quite loud when connected to an external 4K monitor but the "smearing" is reduced noticeably in comparison to the model I got early december.

So I can confirm that there are different displays in these laptops, interesting. I am not sure if I will keep this one, I bought it directly from Apple and will test it for a week before coming to a conclusion.

I primarily use it for software development.

An easy way to show this would be to video your "about this Mac" page showing your model and then drag the settings window around and let us take a look to see if it looks any different.

 

[shardey]

I noticed a difference in what is referred to as "smearing".
Early december I bought the base Core i9 MacBook Pro 16" and noticed this effect because it was mentioned here in the forum. It did not bother me at all but was quite noticeable especially in dark mode.

I sent the machine back because it was crazy loud and ordered the same base Core i9 MacBook Pro again two days ago. The new model is still quite loud when connected to an external 4K monitor but the "smearing" is reduced noticeably in comparison to the model I got early december.

So I can confirm that there are different displays in these laptops, interesting. I am not sure if I will keep this one, I bought it directly from Apple and will test it for a week before coming to a conclusion.

I primarily use it for software development.

When you are connected to an external display, your computer is using the dedicated video card which is why the fans are loud. You could download Macsfancontrol and set the fans to spin faster at a lower temp and ramp up a bit quicker so it wouldn't hit the threshold and aggressive try to cool it down.

 

[emraha06]

I noticed a difference in what is referred to as "smearing".
Early december I bought the base Core i9 MacBook Pro 16" and noticed this effect because it was mentioned here in the forum. It did not bother me at all but was quite noticeable especially in dark mode.

I sent the machine back because it was crazy loud and ordered the same base Core i9 MacBook Pro again two days ago. The new model is still quite loud when connected to an external 4K monitor but the "smearing" is reduced noticeably in comparison to the model I got early december.

So I can confirm that there are different displays in these laptops, interesting. I am not sure if I will keep this one, I bought it directly from Apple and will test it for a week before coming to a conclusion.

I primarily use it for software development.

if it is so easy to solve this problem by panel upgrade then why all the models from 2016 to 2020 have this issue?If you make a research you will notice this problem occurs more than 5 years.

Apple’s concern about battery life makes bad quality peripherals for these devices.
They announce hours of battery life at the risk of poor quality displays. These devices are presented as premium products of Apple but have terrible ghosting and smearing and backlight bleeding.

It may sound weird but Apple managers also use MacBook Pro 16 with backlight bleeding and ghosting in their offices like us. This would be unacceptable for me if i were a manager. Apple has to put regular mode and quality mode to Mac OS which users prefer battery life and quality. It is not true make people suffer about these issues because of battery life concern...

i believe that the display of your new device is not different from the old one. You may experience subjective perceptional mistake. If you take your new device to a store and take photo with same camera of the ufo ghost test image you will notice that.

 

[emraha06]

I have an 2019 15" and it definitely don't!

Actually it's a hell of a machine!

could you please prove it by taking a photo during ufo ghost test or swapping in apps screen

 

[emraha06]

My 16-inch doesn't suffer from ghosting, but just registered to let you know:
Someone on a German Apple forum reported that installing 10.15.2 Beta 4 not only solved the popping issue on his 16-inch but also ghosting. Maybe it's worth trying.

you have to prove it by taking picture of screen with external camera during ufo ghost test

 

[impulse462]

could you please prove it by taking a photo during ufo ghost test or swapping in apps screen

you have to prove it by taking picture of screen with external camera during ufo ghost test

no one has to prove anything to anyone. furthermore, these picutres im assuming are all taken with with auto focus and auto shutterspeed meaning that the comparisons are completely unscientific for anything. just because you experience ghosting and your experience is ruined doesn't mean you can demand people "prove' something that doesn't exist using a completely unscientific method

 

[BarrettF77]

I think some panels are better than others and if this enhances motion or clarity it is possible. You see it on televisions all the time and let’s be honest. Apple isn’t going to win any quality control awards any time soon

 

[emraha06]

no one has to prove anything to anyone. furthermore, these picutres im assuming are all taken with with auto focus and auto shutterspeed meaning that the comparisons are completely unscientific for anything. just because you experience ghosting and your experience is ruined doesn't mean you can demand people "prove' something that doesn't exist using a completely unscientific method

My words does not mean an order, they mean a request and if someone accepts the request, i especially write a thank them for their effort and kindness. As you mentioned i ask this by the words "could you please"

 

[impulse462]

My words does not mean an order, they mean a request and if someone accepts the request, i especially write a thank them for their effort and kindness. As you mentioned i ask this by the words "could you please"

yeah i get what youre getting at, but my main point is that there is no such thing as "proving" no ghosting. only proving ghosting exists.

 

[jinnyman]

no one has to prove anything to anyone. furthermore, these picutres im assuming are all taken with with auto focus and auto shutterspeed meaning that the comparisons are completely unscientific for anything. just because you experience ghosting and your experience is ruined doesn't mean you can demand people "prove' something that doesn't exist using a completely unscientific method

UFO shots I made in this thread are actually done using slow motion video capture on iPhone at 240hz. It's not a perfect mean to compare and I don't think those examples are comparable with other people's using the same method. But I think my comparison among the stuffs I owned (MPB 16", MBP13", Thinkpad P1, LG 27ud88) are done in same condition and method.

Based on my comparison, all three laptops showed similar ghosting (P1 being the worst) while my external was very responsible with minimal ghosting.

 

[Ries]

yeah i get what youre getting at, but my main point is that there is no such thing as "proving" no ghosting. only proving ghosting exists.

'no such thing as "proving" no ghosting'. He is not asking to prove ghosting doesn't exists, he is asking to show that he doesn't have it and that is provable.

My screen doesn't have "red spots" viewing this image.

Proof: Picture of screen without red spots.

 

[BarrettF77]

The takeaway here is that not all cameras are going to capture something the same and there are variables. The only way to know for sure is to conclusively compare side by side and even then it's subjective.

Motion defects are just more difficult than stationary ones like the light bleed I posted last week. I could say I don't have motion blur or not visible to my eyes and the camera say otherwise. Just as in the pics of light bleed last week I showed and the corners were greatly exaggerated. This however is not what I was seeing when I looked at my screen.

We will just have to use our own eyes and baseline off a standard we each find acceptable. I have 2 more coming this week and will compare against the 16" in my possession currently. SO that' is 3 16 models and against my 15" model. This will be a ok sample size but definitely not conclusive. I'm throwing in the towel if the new machines are bad or have issues.

 

[impulse462]

'no such thing as "proving" no ghosting'. He is not asking to prove ghosting doesn't exists, he is asking to show that he doesn't have it and that is provable.

My screen doesn't have "red spots" viewing this image.

Proof: Picture of screen without red spots.

thats really not how proofs work. if something exists, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. in this case, the default case is the screen having no ghosting, so people have to prove it exists.

anyway more on topic, these 16" do have slow response time not dissimilar to the previous 2016-2019 butterfly computers. i don't have my 2013 MBP anymore to compare to, but i never noticed any ghosting until this thread. i do have one friend who works as a visual effects artist at a major hollywood studio with this computer. he didn't notice ghosting either on this particular computer, however he said it is a strong consideration when purchasing new hardware amongst his colleagues (as you might imagine). ill ask him if any of his colleagues have issues with the 16" screen.

 

[Viamusic10000]

if it is so easy to solve this problem by panel upgrade then why all the models from 2016 to 2020 have this issue?If you make a research you will notice this problem occurs more than 5 years.

Apple’s concern about battery life makes bad quality peripherals for these devices.
They announce hours of battery life at the risk of poor quality displays. These devices are presented as premium products of Apple but have terrible ghosting and smearing and backlight bleeding.

It may sound weird but Apple managers also use MacBook Pro 16 with backlight bleeding and ghosting in their offices like us. This would be unacceptable for me if i were a manager. Apple has to put regular mode and quality mode to Mac OS which users prefer battery life and quality. It is not true make people suffer about these issues because of battery life concern...

i believe that the display of your new device is not different from the old one. You may experience subjective perceptional mistake. If you take your new device to a store and take photo with same camera of the ufo ghost test image you will notice that.

It makes complete sense to prioritize battery life over display quality in a laptop. If you want bad battery life and a good display buy a gaming laptop. Backlight bleed on mine is very small btw.

 

[BarrettF77]

I don't believe that battery life can be so severely impacted by a higher refresh screen. If that were the case the iPad Pro would be destroyed in how much power it takes to use it. Not suggesting go with a 1000 nit 240 hz model, but if there was a will there would be a way.

The short answer is dollars and profits margins. Apple wants those over putting a nice screen.

 

[adgoodma]

I bought and returned a 16'' MacBook. The difference between my 2015 was too much. The screen was bright and beautiful, but the ghosting was so jarring that I couldn't keep it. Considering getting a 2019 15'' for a discount.

 

[Viamusic10000]

I don't believe that battery life can be so severely impacted by a higher refresh screen. If that were the case the iPad Pro would be destroyed in how much power it takes to use it. Not suggesting go with a 1000 nit 240 hz model, but if there was a will there would be a way.

The short answer is dollars and profits margins. Apple wants those over putting a nice screen.

Isn’t the ghosting more because of the response time?

 

[BarrettF77]

I bought and returned a 16'' MacBook. The difference between my 2015 was too much. The screen was bright and beautiful, but the ghosting was so jarring that I couldn't keep it. Considering getting a 2019 15'' for a discount.

My only issue is the graphics card for the 5500 is so much better than the trash 460 in my current machine. It's just not even in the same league and I like the new keyboard more. Once you go back you gradually forget about it, but man, I wish these things could be replaced independent of one another and by the user at that. Such as the display.
[automerge]1578938760[/automerge]

Isn’t the ghosting more because of the response time?

Yes, and also refresh rate. Look at the 60hz to 120hz iPad Pro comparison videos in slow mo. Likely both. But that's my point, a iPad Pro can do it, yes it's ARM based, but these have bigger batteries and so the impact should be marginal at best. Especially given we have more thickness to work with and this has the largest FAA allowed battery. Any other gaming machine will also have a smaller battery or the same.

If given the option of moving the display to a higher refresh and degraded battery or longer and slower refresh, these options could be toggled if Apple wanted to work with LG for example.

 

[Andrioshe]

Oh boy, i ordered my 16" 32 GB a week ago .. when I read this thread I am worried as **** now.

It will arrive on next friday and I hope I will not notice it as much..

 

[RougeCode]

Hello,

I have a MBP 16 i9 5500M 1To from Amazon.fr with LP160WT1-SJA2 and i have ghosting. I compare with my external screen Eizo FS2434 (IPS) with overdrive options. When overdrive is off, my Eizo has ghosting too. With standard mode, chase squares test is clean. With enhanced mode, i have reverse ghosting.

Test URL : https://www.testufo.com/chase

My conclusion : Apple has not enable overdrive mode by default on MBP16.

 

[Ries]

thats really not how proofs work. if something exists, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. in this case, the default case is the screen having no ghosting, so people have to prove it exists.

There are several videos and screen shots of ghosting, he claims his doesn't have it, so according to you, the burden of proof is on him.

 

[MacBookGamer]

thats really not how proofs work. if something exists, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. in this case, the default case is the screen having no ghosting, so people have to prove it exists.

anyway more on topic, these 16" do have slow response time not dissimilar to the previous 2016-2019 butterfly computers. i don't have my 2013 MBP anymore to compare to, but i never noticed any ghosting until this thread. i do have one friend who works as a visual effects artist at a major hollywood studio with this computer. he didn't notice ghosting either on this particular computer, however he said it is a strong consideration when purchasing new hardware amongst his colleagues (as you might imagine). ill ask him if any of his colleagues have issues with the 16" screen.

The default case is that ghosting exists since displays without ghosting are more rare. Also, every test shows ghosting. Zero tests show a flawless display.

His display ghosts too. He just doesn’t know what it looks like and/or got conditioned to it.

 

[impulse462]

There are several videos and screen shots of ghosting, he claims his doesn't have it, so according to you, the burden of proof is on him.

The default case is that ghosting exists since displays without ghosting are more rare. Also, every test shows ghosting. Zero tests show a flawless display.

His display ghosts too. He just doesn’t know what it looks like and/or got conditioned to it.

lmao at both of these

 

[harrisonjr98]

Well, my unit went back at the end of the 14 days but not for the ghosting. Catalina (presumably it's Catalina and not the hardware?) is entirely ****ed with external displays and desk setups in a lot of ways, many USB devices can't wake the thing from sleep, output to the display is hit or miss and fans ramp up randomly. Back to the waiting game!