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Ant3000

macrumors 6502
Jul 20, 2015
374
46
UK
Hi, yes, I agree the card is a bit overkill for a Mac Pro 1.1 but it does give the option of reusing this card should I buy a newer Mac Pro of this style.
My understanding is that flashing will give boot screens and the card should be reported correctly in System Profiler. Not sure if performance is improved much - I think it depends on the card.
 

hwojtek

macrumors 68020
Jan 26, 2008
2,274
1,277
Poznan, Poland
Without having done the in-depth read-up on netkas etc... could someone tell me in a nutshell what I could gain from flashing my HD6870 installed in my mac pro 1.1 ?

Boot screens and a nice(r) description of the card in your "About this Mac".


- will flashing my HD6870 put a 32 bit bootloader on my card so it will show the osx boot screens?
No. It will put Apple EFI firmware which is 32/64-agnostic.

- If flashing the card would not produce the benefit of showing boot screens - will the flashing at least give me better support or performance in osx (e.g. proper recognition of the card instead of ATI Radeon HD 6xxx )

Boot screens and card recognition are the sole point of flashing.

Hi, yes, I agree the card is a bit overkill for a Mac Pro 1.1 but it does give the option of reusing this card should I buy a newer Mac Pro of this style.

Far from overkill. I run an R9/280x (essentially a rebranded Radeon 7970) and it suits the two quad core CPUs just nicely. Future proof in terms of an imminent upgrade to a 4,1 Mac Pro.
BTW the flashing itself does not significantly impact the performance (unless the flash file itself has been tinkered with and higher GPU/video memory clocks have been programmed into it). Actually, the Apple clock frequencies tend to be slightly below their PC equivalents, rendering the cards a small bit slower.
 
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Ant3000

macrumors 6502
Jul 20, 2015
374
46
UK
Far from overkill. I run an R9/280x (essentially a rebranded Radeon 7970) and it suits the twin-quad core CPUs nicely.
BTW the flashing does not impact the performance (unless the flash file itself has been tinkered with and higher GPU/video memory clocks have been programmed into it).
Hi Wojtek, does the R9/280x / 7970 have any issues with power requirements in a 1.1? I assume not if you are running it.
 

hwojtek

macrumors 68020
Jan 26, 2008
2,274
1,277
Poznan, Poland
Mine (Sapphire, IIRC) is powered by stock GPU power connectors on the MP motherboard and has never skipped a beat, I play Grid Autosport or Civ5 turned to maximum settings, no problems at all.
 

Ant3000

macrumors 6502
Jul 20, 2015
374
46
UK
Is that the 3gb version and does it have 6 and 8 pin power inputs or 2 x 6pins? Sounds good!
Did you flash it?
 

Sko

macrumors 6502
Oct 17, 2009
285
59
Germany
- will flashing my HD6870 put a 32 bit bootloader on my card so it will show the osx boot screens?
- will my HD6870 even 'run' that 32 bit code ? - I assume the card is 64bit?
- If flashing the card would not produce the benefit of showing boot screens - will the flashing at least give me better support or performance in osx (e.g. proper recognition of the card instead of ATI Radeon HD 6xxx )

Your Mac Pro 1,1 requires an EBC-firmware which does in fact exist on netkas' made by blacksheep, but without boot screen. It will only give you proper/cosmetic OS recognition.
 
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hwojtek

macrumors 68020
Jan 26, 2008
2,274
1,277
Poznan, Poland
Yes, the 3GB. I used a 6-8 adapter on one of the connectors. Did my firmware by myself using some portions of the Apple 7950 ROM from Netkas forum, so the card is recognized as a 7950, that doesn't bother me at all though and I have never really tried to modify the firmware so it would show "R9/280x" (yes, you can edit the name directly in the firmware).
Your Mac Pro 1,1 requires an EBC-firmware which does in fact exist on netkas' made by blacksheep, but without boot screen. It will only give you proper/cosmetic OS recognition.
Use this firmware only if this is exactly the same card, though. You'd be better off with dumping the ROM in Windows and then modyfing it with the script from Netkas forums by combining the stock firmware and the actual EFI part.
 
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rthpjm

macrumors 6502a
Jan 31, 2011
720
309
U.K.
No. It will put Apple EFI firmware which is 32/64-agnostic.
Strictly speaking EBC (EFI byte code) is an EFI standard. It abstracts the function calls to make them compatible with either 32bit or 64bit EFI platforms. When I read some of the documents, it implies a few coding considerations, which happily the Apple engineers took the care and time to do. That's why the ATI family of cards have been easier to make backwardly compatible with 1,1 and 2,1 MacPros.

EBC is analogous to Java code, it is portable. Byte code is an intermediate format.

Netkas and the guys over at his forum were able to extract the EBC section of Apple supplied AMD/ATI cards, figure out how to remove some restrictions/protections, such that the EBC could be appended to a stock BIOS ROM. The typical approach is to dump a copy of your card's ROM, then use an editor to append the EBC to the end, and then fix up a couple of locations so that the Hybrid ROM advertises the fact that there are now two ROM sections available in the firmware. Everyone is encouraged to use their own card's ROM as the donor since it means the card manufacturer and model IDs don't get mixed up, which can cause some issues.

The Apple EFI environment will find the EBC section, and use that to initialise the EFI display environment. There's still a lot of issues with card physical and logical data paths, but most cards match closely enough that Apple's EFI environment can then push the video signal out via the digital connectors, hence we get to see the boot screens. The EBC doesn't need to be that complex because the EFI environment doesn't need high performance.

Once The EFI hands control over to the MacOSX kernel, its job is done. The OS then uses the full feature set from the original BIOS section, matching the (driver) kernel extention (kext). That's why most BIOS-only cards begin working once Mac OS X is booted.

Unfortunately for MacPro owners, almost all Apple-compatible Nvidia cards have full-blown 64-bit EFI sections (not EBC), which is why most Nvidia cards are not compatible with our old Macs for boot screens, (they still work great once the OS is loaded). The EFI sections would need to be re-written to be compatible with 32-bit EFI hosts, or re-written to compile into EBC.
 
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NZXTInerTia

macrumors member
Jul 7, 2016
96
21
Minnesota
Anyone have any ideas on why my 1,1/3GHz/240GB SSD/10.11.5 El Capitan/GTS450 machine keeps crashing? Happens at random times, especially whenever I try and update it, but still at random.
 

rthpjm

macrumors 6502a
Jan 31, 2011
720
309
U.K.
Anyone have any ideas on why my 1,1/3GHz/240GB SSD/10.11.5 El Capitan/GTS450 machine keeps crashing? Happens at random times, especially whenever I try and update it, but still at random.
Do you have any 512MB RAM sticks in the machine?

They are known to cause this type of random reboot...
 

NZXTInerTia

macrumors member
Jul 7, 2016
96
21
Minnesota
Do you have any 512MB RAM sticks in the machine?

They are known to cause this type of random reboot...

I have a single 4GB memory module, obviously meeting all of the typical Mac Pro specifications. I'm planning on adding another 8GB to the machine soon, so I'll have the capability to switch them around to see if one is damaged, so on.
 

cdmawolf

macrumors member
Feb 26, 2016
63
10
I have a single 4GB memory module, obviously meeting all of the typical Mac Pro specifications. I'm planning on adding another 8GB to the machine soon, so I'll have the capability to switch them around to see if one is damaged, so on.

Checked for a red LED lit on the memory card(s)?
 

NZXTInerTia

macrumors member
Jul 7, 2016
96
21
Minnesota
Checked for a red LED lit on the memory card(s)?

The memory sticks, nor the memory risers have any red lights on them. They come on for a split second at boot, and turn off right away. There are no red lights before, during, or after the crash. I can post the crash data, but I don't know if that would help any.
 
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Ant3000

macrumors 6502
Jul 20, 2015
374
46
UK
That might be your problem - I am sure Apple say they must be in pairs. How did you install El Cap, Target Disk?
if you have ordered another 8gb (2x4) you may need one more or one less to work properly. The inside of the side panel has a pic showing the positioning.
 

NZXTInerTia

macrumors member
Jul 7, 2016
96
21
Minnesota
That might be your problem - I am sure Apple say they must be in pairs. How did you install El Cap, Target Disk?
if you have ordered another 8gb (2x4) you may need one more or one less to work properly. The inside of the side panel has a pic showing the positioning.

I just went on eBay and ordered 4x 2GB memory modules, they should be here Monday. I'll probably just end up removing the single 4GB module that I have now, unless I can find another single unit online somewhere.

I loaded El Capitan on my SSD while it was installed in my MacBook, then I replaced the SSD in my MacBook, and added the Boot.EFI files to the Mac Pro SSD via a USB to SATA adapter.
 

NZXTInerTia

macrumors member
Jul 7, 2016
96
21
Minnesota
Have you just got this or have you had it running with just the one memory module with an earlier OS?

I just purchased the machine, it came with the single RAM module. I had it running Lion flawlessly with the one module. Seems like these crashes are common with El Capitan.
 

owbp

macrumors 6502a
Jan 28, 2016
719
245
Belgrade, Serbia
El Capitan is very sensitive to ram in 1,1/2,1 Mac Pros.
Frequent crashes with 512 mb modules, won't install from pre-patched installer if detects less than 12gb and so on...
What does Console Log says about crashes?

P.S. I would also try installing memory in equal pairs. Especially since you can buy 16gb (4x4gb) for some change cash these days.
 
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Ant3000

macrumors 6502
Jul 20, 2015
374
46
UK
Not common in my experience - I have had Yosemite and El Cap running for months with no issues at all. Running the latest OS on a 10 year old machine is pretty good going but it helps if you hit the specs required. The pairs of RAM spec has been around since these were new so not surprising it crashes - more surprising is the fact it didn't crash under Lion.
 

NZXTInerTia

macrumors member
Jul 7, 2016
96
21
Minnesota
Not common in my experience - I have had Yosemite and El Cap running for months with no issues at all. Running the latest OS on a 10 year old machine is pretty good going but it helps if you hit the specs required. The pairs of RAM spec has been around since these were new so not surprising it crashes - more surprising is the fact it didn't crash under Lion.

Interesting. Well, my HD5870 and 4x2GB memory modules are on the way. So I'll get back to updating everyone when those arrive.
 

owbp

macrumors 6502a
Jan 28, 2016
719
245
Belgrade, Serbia
I wasn't in disagreement, running El Cap since January with just few crashes - always GPU related (actually Radeon frame buffer kext).
But I always had symmetrical pairs on both ram risers.
 

Ant3000

macrumors 6502
Jul 20, 2015
374
46
UK
Hi owbp, my comment was to the original poster as they appear to have an out of spec set-up and therefore get crashes - unsurprisingly. Hopefully the new RAM will fix their issue. I think I am getting a bit defensive when anyone criticises these great old machines :)
 
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NZXTInerTia

macrumors member
Jul 7, 2016
96
21
Minnesota
Hi owbp, my comment was to the original poster as they appear to have an out of spec set-up and therefore get crashes - unsurprisingly. Hopefully the new RAM will fix their issue. I think I am getting a bit defensive when anyone criticises these great old machines :)

I am in complete and total agreement. I absolutely love these old machines, I've wanted one for an extremely long time. So when I moved, and then needed an HTPC, and my girlfriend agreed to go half (which is a score in itself) I was ecstatic. I'm too impatient to wait for my new hardware, so it's gonna be a slow week. This will actually be my second most "modern" Mac. Everything else I've owned and used has barely supported Tiger. lol
 
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