I'm guessing the wait was because they knew about the issues, and tried to fix them without making the laptops bigger, couldn't and released them as is
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2018 i9 MacBook Pro throttling discussion [merged]
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I'm guessing the wait was because they knew about the issues, and tried to fix them without making the laptops bigger, couldn't and released them as is
No, not at all! Of course they have to release the laptops, otherwise they will lose sales and not be competitive. And i'm not saying they had to change the whole design. Even some simple things, like better quality thermal paste (costing like what, 1 dollar?) could give a 5 degrees difference, which translates in better performance. Just saying. I'm just a bloody architect, not an electrical engineer
Right now I'm considering to return my i9 32gb the moment it arrives due to this news. I think those saying that this is not Apple's responsibility but Intel's, are forgetting that Apple are the ones selling these laptops to consumers. They must have had this information and decided to release it anyway and ask the price premium for it.
I use my MacBook Pro 2014 for rendering, large Photoshop documents and programming, often intertwined during the day and I waited since 2014 for the release of a Macbook Pro with 32gb ram, as I'm often filling up the 16gb I have. So when these were announced my first reaction was 'Finally!', was very happy and I bought one straight away. I earn my money with it and if I can save some time I'm willing to pay for it so I chose the I9. It's about to arrive within the next 5 days, but now I just don't know.
For those saying that all laptops with this CPU have this problem and that I could've/should've known this would happen, or that it's just physics: As a consumer I shouldn't have to take this into account. A well designed product works as advertised and doesn't let the top of the line CPU run consistently at a lower clock speed especially at this price level. It's not what I expect when I pay €4500,- for a laptop. I expect it to work as advertised.
So now I guess I have two options; wait for next year for a 10nm cpu or buy another laptop (in between). Or perhaps accept the fact that this is the laptop they released and that it costs €4500,- in the hope that through adjusting fan curves they can help it somewhat, but I don't think I can. As an Apple consumer since 2006 I may finally make the switch.
I use my MacBook Pro 2014 for rendering, large Photoshop documents and programming, often intertwined during the day and I waited since 2014 for the release of a Macbook Pro with 32gb ram, as I'm often filling up the 16gb I have. So when these were announced my first reaction was 'Finally!', was very happy and I bought one straight away. I earn my money with it and if I can save some time I'm willing to pay for it so I chose the I9. It's about to arrive within the next 5 days, but now I just don't know.
For those saying that all laptops with this CPU have this problem and that I could've/should've known this would happen, or that it's just physics: As a consumer I shouldn't have to take this into account. A well designed product works as advertised and doesn't let the top of the line CPU run consistently at a lower clock speed especially at this price level. It's not what I expect when I pay €4500,- for a laptop. I expect it to work as advertised.
So now I guess I have two options; wait for next year for a 10nm cpu or buy another laptop (in between). Or perhaps accept the fact that this is the laptop they released and that it costs €4500,- in the hope that through adjusting fan curves they can help it somewhat, but I don't think I can. As an Apple consumer since 2006 I may finally make the switch.
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No, not at all! Of course they have to release the laptops, otherwise they will lose sales and not be competitive. And i'm not saying they had to change the whole design. Even some simple things, like better quality thermal paste (costing like what, 1 dollar?) could give a 5 degrees difference, which translates in better performance. Just saying. I'm just a bloody architect, not an electrical engineer
Since they claim to lead the industry, if they knew full well they were gonna have overheating laptops, why not lead the way and become the first to use liquid metal instead of thermal compound?
Ugh, this is looking bad. I sincerely hope that this is a power management bug. If I see anything like this in the laptop I have ordered, its definitely going back.
Edit: there is something I just don't get. The 2016/2017 MBP had better thermals than the Dell XPS 15". The XPS had clear throttling where the MBP showed stable sustained performance. And reportedly Dell hasn't changed anything about their cooling system. So why is it faring so much better with identical CPUs now?
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Well, I am going to test mine rigorously. And if it indeed severely underperforms compared to the competition, its definitely going back.
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I'm not sure how Apple stores are with returning opened and used laptops? I've (luckily) never had to do this before, but I'm afraid to even open it to test it if it causes troubles with returning.
When you buy at Apple you generally have 14 days return period, no questions asked. But check first, I've heard that there are restocking fees in some countries.
If you decide to stay with Mac you could save a bunch of money by opting for the lowest clocked i7. A 6-core, 32 GB laptop will still be a powerhouse even at 2.2 GHz base clock and I really don't think you'll notice or care about the difference between that and the severely throttled 2.9 GHz model. Imagine what else you could do with €400 or however much the upgrade costs where you are. I'd return it.
Apple have really screwed up this generation of MacBook Pros.
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In that specific test they are comparing an XPS with the 2.2gh 8750H, to a MBP with the 2.6gh 8850H one. So i believe that the MBP, just because it clocks higher, it throttles more, due to the temps that these .4gh give. In few words i believe that the most logical buy right now is the 8750H. It seems it throttles less. The major issue is with the i9 one, and to a lesser degree with the 8850H one... Just a guess...
Hey, comment away, not trying to stop you.
As for 1kg, hey, as I said - you're welcome to use what you prefer. For me, I carry my laptop everywhere I go. I'm not the world's strongest guy, but I can carry quite a lot - still, believe me, when you have that thing hanging from your shoulder for hours, 1kg does make a big difference. For me, at least.
Just the tone of your reply tells me how little you care about the fact that people have different expectations of their hardware. But for me, a 3kg laptop is not a laptop I plan on using, ever. Does that make it a bad laptop? Of course not. Just not a good laptop for me.
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Agreed. I barely notice my MBP when I carry it all day around my shoulder. But just adding my iPad to the bag, and after an hour, my shoulder starts to hurt.
1kg is big in laptops.
If Apple were waiting for an excuse to make another 17" laptop, I couldn't think of a better reason than this emerging throttle-gate. Even with the same thickness as current MBPs, a 17" model would offer a significantly larger case area and volume to support a bigger and better cooling system that might go a long way to addressing this significant throttling.
But Apple doesn't appear to be a company that listens to users much anymore.
But Apple doesn't appear to be a company that listens to users much anymore.
They listen but they are absolutely obsessed with releasing the lightest and thinnest portable lines (im)possible. Functionality is not a priority.
Actually for a while what I've been thinking is they should move to a 16", 14", 12" format across the range. reduce the bezel sizes, ...***gasp*** make it a little thicker if needed for cooling.
Does it make a "big difference" to wear a coat?
How do short, weak female police officers wear a 6 lbs kevlar vest every day for 5, 10 or 20 hours, 8 or more hours a day?
Does it make a "big difference" to wear everyday clothes (no shoes), plus carry keys, a cell phone and wallet? That's 6 or more pounds.
The weight difference between a MacBook and mbp is 1 pound, not 1 kg btw. At least get your facts straight if you are going to use them for hyperbole.
I ran some more detailed tests today.
It throttles. It throttles very badly on default / automatic fans. It's not very bad on max speed.
If you check the description I recorded both tests and uploaded those, so you can watch them side by side in real time.
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It throttles. It throttles very badly on default / automatic fans. It's not very bad on max speed.
If you check the description I recorded both tests and uploaded those, so you can watch them side by side in real time.
So, this is a failure both on the part of intel and on apple's part for inadequate testing before release.
Newsflash: none of this matters since apple just released some new emoji's! Yaaay!
Newsflash: none of this matters since apple just released some new emoji's! Yaaay!
this seems a bit more like it. (admittedly not compared against other current i7s and i9s)
I have a hard time blaming Intel for this one, the system's integrator should be well aware of the component characteristics. A CPU that runs hot should be factored into their decision making process.
[doublepost=1531947266][/doublepost]Furthermore, in my testing the power load on the i9 is _lower_ than my 2014 i7.
Are Apple and Intel working together so that there is at least some minimal communication about minimum standards for cooling: re, brand and amount of thermal past, necessity of heat sinks, dimensions of an enclosure?
These two companies must have had an ongoing, working partnership, at least informally for several decades now. I'm not saying design flaws can be totally avoided, but they should be minimized or very infrequent on a 3rd revision.
Really nice, saw the whole video here, and skimmed through the other 2.I ran some more detailed tests today.
It throttles. It throttles very badly on default / automatic fans. It's not very bad on max speed.
If you check the description I recorded both tests and uploaded those, so you can watch them side by side in real time.
Can you explain the drop at 9:56 for the i9? it seems a little random to me.
And how will the throttling look with "in-place large FFts" compared to the "blend" test that you are running (especially on the i9)?
Being strong or weak makes no difference when it comes to comfort. Silly argument.
That is ridiculous. We’re talking about added, not total weight. At one point, all the weight combined becomes unpleasant to carry all day. Besides, what frigging clothes and keys are you carrying if they weigh 3kg, ffs?
1kg makes a difference in a laptop. Please, spare me the manly rugged bs.
I’m talking about the weight difference between Queen6’s 2.8kg Asus laptop and a 1.8kg 15” MacBook Pro. At least read the posts if you are going to use them for ridicule.
Intel have an internal Apple Engineering Team - that do nothing except work with Apple on their upcoming products.
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If it's not clear already, let me make it so: EVERY APPLE LAPTOP IS A THROTTLED MACBOOK. THERE IS NO PRO LINE AND THERE ARE NO PRO MODELS.
I can't explain it, my expectation is thermal throttling happening on a CPU level where it's refusing more power until it cools down.
The types of testing here both load the CPU to near full power so in terms of endurance / temperature testing it shouldn't have a huge impact.
The types of testing here both load the CPU to near full power so in terms of endurance / temperature testing it shouldn't have a huge impact.
I ran some more detailed tests today.
It throttles. It throttles very badly on default / automatic fans. It's not very bad on max speed.
If you check the description I recorded both tests and uploaded those, so you can watch them side by side in real time.
How do you "set the fan curve to maximum" ??