2018 i9 MacBook Pro throttling discussion [merged]

[Mockletoy]

Of course it isn’t silly, silly. The poster mentions the possibility of the 2017 model beating the i9 in performance. So, the question is, does he think the base i7 perform better than the top spec 2017? Because if he says of course if does, then I’ll have him watch the video again and if the 2018 i7 does perform better than the 2017 i7, does he still think the i9 will perform slower than the 2017 model. You’re over reading.

I think it’s quite silly to suggest someone should pay an extra $300 for a crippled “upgrade” that does not work as designed and advertised.

Whether it is or is not faster in some cases is irrelevant since it is not as fast as it should be, meaning you simply aren’t getting what you’re paying for in a direct and literal sense.

 

[Hitrate]

I too am being respectful as well as trying to state out facts and using common sense here. If the base 2018 hexagon core performs better than the 2017 i7, wouldn’t it be common sense, and even after watching some of these videos, that the i9 would too perform better generally than the 2017 i7?

No intention of belittling but it is true how everyone seems too fixated on a single video when there are now tons of over videos online, yes confirming throttling on the 2018 models, but also still confirming that 2018 models do perform better than 2017 models. Whether or not there is an issue with the throttling, thermals...of course there is, no one is arguing with that. I agree that there is. But focusing on the point of performance between the Mac systems, the 2018 models do perform better.

Hotter and slower fans is not a better performance depending on what you’re using it for, so your statement is false.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

I think it’s quite silly to suggest someone should pay an extra $300 for a crippled “upgrade” that does not work as designed and advertised.

Whether it is or is not faster in some cases is irrelevant since it is not as fast as it should be, meaning you simply aren’t getting what you’re paying for in a direct and literal sense.

Umm...no one is suggesting to pay an extra $300 dollars. We ladies and gentlemen, are simply testing out real life performance. No one is also suggesting that Macbook Pros are not crippled. You’re just starting to divert.

 

[Ploki]

Had a 2011 MBP and still runs at 103C, CPU in general are extremely durable. Other minor components tend to give up first.

Q-6
[doublepost=1532184551][/doublepost]

Right now now I'm mulling it over as the GPU is the weakest link, equally there's always something better around the corner...

Q-6

well... yeah.. but this is a 3y old GPU we're talking about right now, and DDR4 which apple 2 years ago explicitly stated *it won't use* because of battery life.
add throttling to this, and i'm pretty sure this years MBP is one big compromise... this is what's holding me back.

I've just tried volta and limiting TDP to 45w. It works. cinebench is now consistently scoring 1000+ on my i7 2.6

dang, that beats i9 by 100.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

Hotter and slower fans is not a better performance depending on what you’re using it for, so your statement is false.

So because the CPUs are hotter and the fans are slower immediately means less performance? Oh gosh...someone smack me in the face. Lol
[doublepost=1532190234][/doublepost]

well... yeah.. but this is a 3y old GPU we're talking about right now, and DDR4 which apple 2 years ago explicitly stated *it won't use* because of battery life.
add throttling to this, and i'm pretty sure this years MBP is one big compromise... this is what's holding me back.



dang, that beats i9 by 100.

Makes you wonder though what performance difference it’s would make also limiting the i9 as well.

 

[Mockletoy]

Umm...no one is suggesting to pay an extra $300 dollars. We ladies and gentlemen, are simply testing out real life performance. No one is also suggesting that Macbook Pros are not crippled. You’re just starting to divert.

No, I’m simply reminding you that, faster than the 2017s or not, the 2018s appear to be simply defective.

It’s possible that Apple may be able to somewhat ameliorate those defects via firmware updates, and that users might be able to somewhat ameliorate those defects with undervolting, aggressive fan curves, and power limiting.

But suggesting that people should buy the defective 2018 machines because even in their defective state they are faster than the 2017 machines is ... well, I strongly disagree with that entire mode of thinking, as a matter of principle.

You are arguing that the 2018 machines are faster. Well, so what? They’re still broken. I’d rather have a somewhat slower machine that isn’t broken.

And someone IS suggesting that people pay an extra $300 for a useless upgrade: Apple is, right there on the MacBook Pro BTO page.

 

[dogslobber]

The Dell machines with the i9 chip have the same throttling issue. It's not specific to Apple.

 

[M.Rizk]

The Dell machines with the i9 chip have the same throttling issue. It's not specific to Apple.

They do, but not as bad as Apple. Apple did a pretty bad job at it.

 

[Mockletoy]

The Dell machines with the i9 chip have the same throttling issue. It's not specific to Apple.

It appears that the XPS doesn’t throttle nearly as quickly or to the same extent. But, it’s not really relevant anyway. That’s sort of like saying, “Ford is selling cars with defective engines,” and having someone else say, “Well, so is Chevy, so it’s not just Ford.”

Well, fine. That sounds like a good reason to buy neither a Ford nor a Chevy until they get their crap sorted out.

 

[Ploki]

So because the CPUs are hotter and the fans are slower immediately means less performance? Oh gosh...someone smack me in the face. Lol
[doublepost=1532190234][/doublepost]

Makes you wonder though what performance difference it’s would make also limiting the i9 as well.

yeah, this actually makes me hopeful for i9...
if it can sustain 3.0ghz i'm okay with that.

 

[surfari]

Battery life seems on par or better than my 2017 3.1GHZ i7. I've not timed it to see actual battery life from 100% to full drain. The Apple battery life #'s they quote are for a display that is turned way down and etc. I keep mine turned all the way up, or why buy a fancy display? Why should I stain my eyes in bright sunlight? Kill the battery not my eyes as they aren't replaceable! If you stream or watch 1080 or 4k video the battery life goes much quicker. Ave battery life on my 2017 was 2.5 to 4.5 hrs. I will say that the fans come on less often on my 2018 i9 and the bottom of the case is not as hot.

 

[M.Rizk]

It appears that the XPS doesn’t throttle nearly as quickly or to the same extent. But, it’s not really relevant anyway. That’s sort of like saying, “Ford is selling cars with defective engines,” and having someone else say, “Well, so is Chevy, so it’s not just Ford.”

Well, fine. That sounds like a good reason to buy neither a Ford nor a Chevy until they get their crap sorted out.

This just means that you cannot expect much of an i9 out of a slim laptop like the MBP or the XPS 15. Did Apple/Dell do wrong including them in such slim laptops? Maybe, but let's not forget that although they are not offering their full potential, they are still offering a higher performance compared to the i7 variant.

If you want an i9 that doesn't throttle then here you go:

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

No, I’m simply reminding you that, faster than the 2017s or not, the 2018s appear to be simply defective.

It’s possible that Apple may be able to somewhat ameliorate those defects via firmware updates, and that users might be able to somewhat ameliorate those defects with undervolting, aggressive fan curves, and power limiting.

But suggesting that people should buy the defective 2018 machines because even in their defective state they are faster than the 2017 machines is ... well, I strongly disagree with that entire mode of thinking, as a matter of principle.

You are arguing that the 2018 machines are faster. Well, so what? They’re still broken. I’d rather have a somewhat slower machine that isn’t broken.

And someone IS suggesting that people pay an extra $300 for a useless upgrade: Apple is, right there on the MacBook Pro BTO page.

Umm, why don’t you read your original comment regarding the video?

You said, why does any of this matter...then you go about saying you have this gaming computer...then you go about talking about how the new MacBooks are crippled (of which I agree), so I’m explaining to you, it matters because some people are trying to make a decision and some people are trying to be more informed if performance between these Macbook Pros are negligible or not and to try and dispel the idea that the new macs are a slouch which they are not but at the same time not performing to maximum potential.

And remember, throttling happens under a huge load not the entire time you use the machine, this happens as well with most windows laptops with the i9, does it throttle as much, some do, some dont.

$300 for a “useless” upgrade? That my friend is relative when you can get a bit more out of it despite not being as much as expected.

Lastly, not everyone wants to go back to Windows, some people prefer FCP, most MacBook Pro users need portability, if you have a better suggestion on what they should get instead of these crippled machines, let us know.
[doublepost=1532191015][/doublepost]

This just means that you cannot expect much of an i9 out of a slim laptop like the MBP or the XPS 15. Did Apple/Dell do wrong including them in such slim laptops? Maybe, but let's not forget that although they are not offering their full potential, they are still offering a higher performance compared to the i7 variant.

If you want an i9 that doesn't throttle then here you go:

Exactly...
[doublepost=1532191243][/doublepost]

yeah, this actually makes me hopeful for i9...
if it can sustain 3.0ghz i'm okay with that.

Grr...I’m still out and want to try on my i9 but I am not a huge techie and worry I might screw up whatever limits and kill my machine! Haha!

 

[kotlos]

Makes you wonder though what performance difference it’s would make also limiting the i9 as well.

I did the test few posts back. The i9 actually performs worse than the i7 if you use the 45W limit:

 

[Queen6]

well... yeah.. but this is a 3y old GPU we're talking about right now, and DDR4 which apple 2 years ago explicitly stated *it won't use* because of battery life.
add throttling to this, and i'm pretty sure this years MBP is one big compromise... this is what's holding me back.



dang, that beats i9 by 100.

If it's too compromised for your needs skip it, that's exactly what I did with the 2016/2017. This year's I'm seriously considering.

Q-6

 

[M.Rizk]

I did the test few posts back. The i9 actually performs worse than the i7 if you use the 45W limit:
View attachment 771992

Doesn't look bad to me. That's stable 3 GHz so at least made it to base clock (0.1 GHz higher) without ramping up the fans. Try to increase the fans a little or if you have bootcamp try setting the power limit to 50W~55W. It should perform better.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

I did the test few posts back. The i9 actually performs worse than the i7 if you use the 45W limit:
View attachment 771992

I honestly would take the final score with a grain of salt but the fact that it keeps the 3.0-3.1 frequency under load honestly looks good to me.

 

[Queen6]

I did the test few posts back. The i9 actually performs worse than the i7 if you use the 45W limit:
View attachment 771992

Yeah, you'll need to increase the power to the CPU. 52W if the software allows.

Q-6

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

Yeah, you'll need to increase the power to the CPU. 52W if the software allows.

Q-6

I guess we just need to make sure that the fans ramp up properly and on time as well. My fans seem to ramp up a little later/slower than what I am used to.

 

[kotlos]

Doesn't look bad to me. That's stable 3 GHz so at least made it to base clock (0.1 GHz higher) without ramping up the fans. Try to increase the fans a little or if you have bootcamp try setting the power limit to 50W~55W. It should perform better.

I did a bunch of tests here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-throttling-discussion-merged.2127869/page-34

I can barely reach the 1000 only if I allow the boost for few seconds before the throttling kicks in, at which time I limit the wattage to 45W. Unfortunately that is all I can do with the Volta app. Fans were set to max.

I don't use Windows so Apple needs to have a firmware update in which they limit the wattage to ~55W after few seconds of >60W consumption + improve the fan responsiveness.

There is a lot of exaggeration from both sides, which mostly helps for YT clicks. But there is definitely something to be done here and Apple should listen.

 

[wallysb01]

I did a bunch of tests here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-throttling-discussion-merged.2127869/page-34

I can barely reach the 1000 only if I allow the boost for few seconds before the throttling kicks in, at which time I limit the wattage to 45W. Unfortunately that is all I can do with the Volta app. Fans were set to max.

I don't use Windows so Apple needs to have a firmware update in which they limit the wattage to ~55W after few seconds of >60W consumption + improve the fan responsiveness.

There is a lot of exaggeration from both sides, which mostly helps for YT clicks. But there is definitely something to be done here and Apple should listen.

Agree on all fronts! Its kind of sad how many youTubers basically make the same damned video. Think for yourself people.

Anyway, Apple will likely quietly issue an update that tackles this problem to the best of their ability. (And all the experimentation done by folks on these boards is greatly appreciated.) While Apple is often slow to respond, they do respond to stuff like this. The question will be how long this takes and what does the final performance for all the models look like after the update. I personally will continue to wait to see this issue resolved. The i9 is potentially appealing to me for the high single core boost, even if the multicore performance doesn't grade out better than the i7s. However, I really want to know the answer to these questions before committing on a potentially $4K purchase that I want to last for at least 3 years.

 

[Queen6]

I did a bunch of tests here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-throttling-discussion-merged.2127869/page-34

I can barely reach the 1000 only if I allow the boost for few seconds before the throttling kicks in, at which time I limit the wattage to 45W. Unfortunately that is all I can do with the Volta app. Fans were set to max.

I don't use Windows so Apple needs to have a firmware update in which they limit the wattage to ~55W after few seconds of >60W consumption + improve the fan responsiveness.

There is a lot of exaggeration from both sides, which mostly helps for YT clicks. But there is definitely something to be done here and Apple should listen.

Think 1000CB is the best score I've seen yet for the new MBP. Still a way off for where it needs to be, let alone the full capacity of the CPU's.

I would want to see around 1150CB on the 8750H and 1250CB on the i9, that's still short of PC numbers, yet reasonable for a Mac.

Q-6

 

[Glockworkorange]

Beat me to the punch. Slower than a 2017 pro due to throttling? Lol

I'm certain Apple will explain this through one of the "journalists" they keep in their pocket.

 

[OC40]

Just returned the i9 unopened. The i7 two point six will arrive on Monday or Tuesday.

Might have to “work” from home on that day.

 

[Elektrofone]

Just returned the i9 unopened. The i7 two point six will arrive on Monday or Tuesday.

Might have to “work” from home on that day.

Did you get the 16GB or 32GB?