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br0adband

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2006
933
69
That Jonathan Morrison video didn't do much to cover any issues with the thermal problems that a lot of people are having, maybe he got a particularly "magical" or great 2018 MBP (i7 and i9, it seems), good for him but I understand that wasn't the point of the video to begin with so it's understandable he didn't bring it up.

His benchmarks aren't anything particularly unusual or surprising: the i7 at 2.2 GHz with 6 cores vs the i9 @ 2.9 GHz with 6 cores on the same basic architecture showed roughly 10-25% differences in performance across all the benchmarks he did save for the Canon one and that makes perfect sense because the i9 is running at ~33% faster clock speed (2.2 GHz / 3 = 733 MHz roughly so 2.2 GHz + ~700 MHz = ~ 2.9 GHz which is expected.

While it does show the i9 in most situations should actually be better performing, it's not some major massive boost in performance but that's not surprising given the way Intel generation bumps happen anyway. 10-25% on average better performance is great but it's not all that and it might not be worth the additional cost (and of course the potential thermal problems) for the i9.

After I first saw that Dave Lee video that started this whole fiasco, I realized he showed the Gigabyte Aero 15X running Windows 10 and doing the 5K RED Scarlett to 4K H.264 encode with Adobe Premiere Pro and it finished in 7 mins and 18 seconds with what I presume is the i9 and not the 7th gen i7 from last year's model. In that same test, on macOS using the 2018 i9 model and Adobe Premiere Pro it took 39 mins and 37 seconds to do the same encode - that's over 5x faster overall on the Windows platform.

If that's the case, maybe some pros should run Windows 10 in a VM on top of macOS to get access to the much more optimized Adobe Premiere Pro code on the Windows platform - even in that situation with Windows running as a guest OS, the sheer speed that the encode would finish at makes it a viable option.

I'm a big fan of using VMs in situations like this, so call me crazy, but I'd say in the same situation, using Windows 10 (or Windows 7 actually, a better OS IMO) and using Adobe Premiere Pro in the VM appears to be able to easily provide vastly superior encoding performance if what Dave Lee's video stated is actually true.

5x faster, good lord... that's amazing.
 
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OC40

macrumors 6502
Sep 20, 2013
348
196
Chicago, IL
When you do get it would you mind running some benchmarks? Considering returning my i9 for the 2.6 but need to see some comparisons soon.
[doublepost=1532198313][/doublepost]

Yeah. At this point I want to see a comparison between the i9 and 2.6 i7 most of all. If I return my i9 that will probably be the one I go with.

I’m pretty sure that geekbench is doing a comparison.
 

M.Rizk

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 20, 2015
785
613
If that's the case, maybe some pros should run Windows 10 in a VM on top of macOS to get access to the much more optimized Adobe Premiere Pro code on the Windows platform - even in that situation with Windows running as a guest OS, the sheer speed that the encode would finish at makes it a viable option.

I would love to see someone try Premier Pro on a Windows 10 Bootcamp too (not a VM to make it fair). Hopefully it performs better.

...and using Adobe Premiere Pro in the VM appears to be able to easily provide vastly superior encoding performance if what Dave Lee's video stated is actually true.

FCP X should be a nice alternative on Mac OS, otherwise just go for a Windows machine and save your money.
 

lisag

macrumors member
Feb 1, 2008
35
174
Dallas
The 2018 Gigabyte Aero 15X has a Core i7-8750H, 16GB DDR4 2400 MHz RAM (single channel on some configs, with RAM slots to go for dual channel with upgrades) and the NVIDIA GTX 1070 Max-Q. There is no Core i9 option. That 1070 Max-Q GPU would be a strong plus.

...

After I first saw that Dave Lee video that started this whole fiasco, I realized he showed the Gigabyte Aero 15X running Windows 10 and doing the 5K RED Scarlett to 4K H.264 encode with Adobe Premiere Pro and it finished in 7 mins and 18 seconds with what I presume is the i9 and not the 7th gen i7 from last year's model. In that same test, on macOS using the 2018 i9 model and Adobe Premiere Pro it took 39 mins and 37 seconds to do the same encode - that's over 5x faster overall on the Windows platform.
...
 

br0adband

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2006
933
69
The 2018 Gigabyte Aero 15X has a Core i7-8750H, 16GB DDR4 2400 MHz RAM (single channel on some configs, with RAM slots to go for dual channel with upgrades) and the NVIDIA GTX 1070 Max-Q. There is no Core i9 option. That 1070 Max-Q GPU would be a strong plus.

Thanks for that info, Lisa, love the YouTube channel for many years now. Glad to see you're keeping abreast of all this "Throttlegate" madness as well. ;)

So that Aero 15X is even less spec'ed than the 2018 MBP i9 and it still offers that kind of crazy insane encoding performance, amazing. I guess Adobe got to a point where they figured "OK, we used to own video editing on the OSX/macOS platform but Apple dropped Final Cut Pro on top of us and ruined it, so we'll focus on the Windows platform and optimize Premiere Pro to unbelievable levels..." :D

Now we need to see a Windows-based machine with the i9 and Premiere Pro and do that same kind of test and see if it goes even higher than 5x faster...

Anyway, if I was a working video professional, and if Premiere Pro offered me that kind of massive - 5x faster, I say - encoding performance, I'd have a Windows box set aside strictly for that purpose (or several) even in a Mac-centric production environment, but that's me I suppose.
 

SRLMJ23

macrumors 68020
Jul 11, 2008
2,321
1,421
Central New York
forgot about the cheese grater, 8 cores since 2008.

if you want hyperthreading, then the 2009 mac pro (8 cores, 16 threads)

I did not really forget, I was just pointing out the machines that can still run the latest version of macOS without any hacks. Obviously the iMac Pro is brand new, but the Mac Pro is from what, 2013?

I just straight up do not believe it has anything to do with macOS.

My bet is since they did not change the thermal management system, that is why the throttling is happening. I do not know what Apple is thinking? If you are going to add chips with more cores than have ever been in a MacBook Pro before, you should probably look at the thermal management system. Especially with the i9, since it runs hot anyway!

They should have done a redesign of the thermal management system like they did with the iMac Pro, which works pretty well. I know there is more room in an iMac to redesign things, but it could have been done with the 2018 MacBook Pro's!

:apple:
 
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jerwin

Suspended
Jun 13, 2015
2,895
4,652
If that's the case, maybe some pros should run Windows 10 in a VM on top of macOS to get access to the much more optimized Adobe Premiere Pro code on the Windows platform - even in that situation with Windows running as a guest OS, the sheer speed that the encode would finish at makes it a viable option.

what's wrong with bootcamp?
 

Ploki

macrumors 601
Jan 21, 2008
4,325
1,560
I did not really forget, I was just pointing out the machines that can still run the latest version of macOS without any hacks. Obviously the iMac Pro is brand new, but the Mac Pro is from what, 2013?

I just straight up do not believe it has anything to do with macOS.

My bet is since they did not change the thermal management system, that is why the throttling is happening. I do not know what Apple is thinking? If you are going to add chips with more cores than have ever been in a MacBook Pro before, you should probably look at the thermal management system. Especially with the i9, since it runs hot anyway!

They should have done a redesign of the thermal management system like they did with the iMac Pro, which works pretty well. I know there is more room in an iMac to redesign things, but it could have been done with the 2018 MacBook Pro's!

:apple:
well, they did redesign it to accommodate a larger battery. I'd more than gladly risk 30mins off battery life for a better cooling. :)
 
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br0adband

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2006
933
69
what's wrong with bootcamp?

Using a VM gets you roughly 90-95% of the bare metal performance and you're still running macOS at the same time as the host OS. Why run just one OS at a time when you can have the best of both worlds, or even toss Linux into the mix and do even more, all at the same time, almost with the performance of running the OSes on the bare metal (within ~5-10% of it)?

Running one OS at a time on today's modern high powered multi-core RAM stuffed super duper hella high speed storage-based computers, that's so quaint, really. :)
 

br0adband

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2006
933
69
If you are spending this amount of money on an MBP i9 and you don't know how to download a fan speed app, then you shouldn't be buying this computer.

Ironically, that's about 95% of the people that just bought the new i9-powered 2018 MBPs, go figure. Remember: It just works. Right?

Apparently not, at least in terms of efficient cooling.
 

Feenician

macrumors 603
Jun 13, 2016
5,313
5,100
This scandal has blown up WAY out of proportion. How difficult it to download a fan speed app and turn the fans up to 100%

If you are spending this amount of money on an MBP i9 and you don't know how to download a fan speed app, then you shouldn't be buying this computer.

source.gif

As it turns out, fan speed isn’t even the main issue.
 

Feenician

macrumors 603
Jun 13, 2016
5,313
5,100

Haswell

macrumors regular
Nov 9, 2012
245
280
USA
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SRLMJ23

macrumors 68020
Jul 11, 2008
2,321
1,421
Central New York
well, they did redesign it to accommodate a larger battery. I'd more than gladly risk 30mins off battery life for a better cooling. :)

I agree with you completely!

However, even with the larger battery, I have a hard time believing Apple Engineers could not find a why to make the thermal management system better.

:apple:
 
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br0adband

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2006
933
69

It would be nice to see people stop using Geekbench, it's effectively useless in terms of CPU performance testing, it really is. Look at that video and watch the Intel Power Gadget and see the CPU utilization, it's barely nicked overall. Cinebench is better because it literally forces the CPU max out across the board - and yes I know the publisher of Geekbench said the current version isn't "optimized" for the i9 yet, and I just laugh at that. It's barely touching the CPU in most of the tests.

Instead these reviewers and testers should use:

- Cinebench (hard hit to the CPU during the rendering test, not the OpenGL one)
- video rendering with Adobe Premiere Pro (even "un-optimized") or Final Cut Pro (hard hit to the CPU)
- HandBrake H.264/H.265 encoding (very hard hit to the CPU, and I don't think the Quick Sync hardware accelerated H.264/H.265 encoder kicks in on the macOS platform but I cannot say that for sure, I've only got experience with that on the Windows platform)
- Prime95 (very hard hit to the CPU, maxing it out constantly)

Any of those when they're running should literally end up with a flat line or perhaps a moderate stair-step from max performance potential down a bit to indicate throttling happening as it measures CPU utilization during the testing, from idle at the start to the peak and it should stay there, flat line across the graph with barely a nudge up or down. If it's a spiky up-down-up-down with no consistency to the reading, if there's no flat line aspect to it at all as most every one of these videos and tests are showing, the thermal cooling solution/system is failing to do its job properly.
 
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shavou

macrumors member
Jul 21, 2018
30
6
Hey guys, there is a new great video on youtube which shows that the i9 does not really throttle that much. It actually looks quite promising :). Have a look

Although this test shows that there is almost no throttling, it also shows that the laptop is never capable to turbo boost (i.e. it never goes beyond the 2.9ghz base clock) ?? That's not a good indicator!

What do you guys think? Still, I cannot get my head around this other video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip-sZfWaVo0&frags=pl%2Cwn in which the new i9 is slower than the top spec 15" 2017 model.

What do you guys think??
 

br0adband

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2006
933
69
What do you guys think??

I think that if you'd looked back at least one page of posts you'd see that video has been shared and posted in quotes multiple times just in the past hour or two (including just 6 posts prior to yours). :)

Doesn't hurt to look back a page of two before posting a link or a video just in case it's been posted just prior to you (or anyone else) sharing it again and again and again.
 
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shavou

macrumors member
Jul 21, 2018
30
6
I think that if you'd looked back at least one page of posts you'd see that video has been shared and posted in quotes multiple times just in the past hour or two (including just 6 posts prior to yours). :)

Doesn't hurt to look back a page of two before posting a link or a video just in case it's been posted just prior to you (or anyone else) sharing it again and again and again.


You are wrong mate!!!!
that's a completely new video just released.

Honestly, I THINK it doesn't hurt to read a post properly before replying!!!
 

Feenician

macrumors 603
Jun 13, 2016
5,313
5,100
You are wrong mate!!!!
that's a completely new video just released.

Honestly, I THINK it doesn't hurt to read a post properly before replying!!!

Here are the posts where it’s been linked, including your own

A82788BD-64A3-4810-B424-56C066EF07D4.jpeg

As to your question, “what do you guys think?”. I think it’s pretty irrelevant, knowing what we now know about how throttling occurs.
 
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M.Rizk

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 20, 2015
785
613
My apologies then!

It's ok. Regarding the video, it seems the 2018 MBP is doing really good on FCP X and DaVinci compared to Premier Pro. Despite the throttling the i9 is still performing better than not just the 2018 i7, but also the 2017 i7.
[doublepost=1532202897][/doublepost]One more (A really long one as it was a live stream):

 
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