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2018 i9 MacBook Pro throttling discussion [merged]

agaskew said:

Ouch
Click to expand...

Not a fan of him, but one video recently that hit the nail on the head was
- it is basically how Apple can get away with making mistakes and have their user base defend them against anyone who mentions such failure - similar to an abused girlfriend situation who blames everyone but their abuser. Meanwhile, any other company would be burnt at the stake.

So why do we have this emotional attachment to Apple, which other companies don’t seem to get the benefit of?

I think it is two fold.

1) Apple market products to your emotions, not strictly need or functionality. I was working as a dev for one of the major automotive car companies and part of their strategy was to become like Apple and market to emotions, they wanted people to but their products as an emotional driven event.

The idea is, if someone becomes emotionally involved with a product, things like price, or issues, or lack of capabilities compared to the competition become irrelevant. We all have certain brands or products we naturally have an affinity to, even though there seem to be logical better alternatives.

2) One of the main selling points of Apple is the ecosystem - the idea that you can have multiple products that seamlessly integrate. It is great and it is the kind of thing that makes you want to buy an Apple TV even though you’d be better served by maybe a Roku, it’s what’s makes you buy an Apple Watch when you don’t even like watches (I’m guilty). People who never used a MacBook now suddenly think maybe it’d be nice to buy one and have it sync with your iPhone.

Lack of functionality, issues or defects all kill the dream of this ecosystem. You’ll see in the various threads where people are doing such crazy work arounds or trying to justify or defend basic lack of functionality that should be expected - because hey, no one wants to feel like the ecosystem is broken. It’s sometbnng even I find I do myself.

@Apple, you got something that most companies don’t, that is there is a huge fan base who are wanting you to succeed - they don’t see you as a corporation, they treat you like their favourite sports team and make excusss on your behalf.

Please, start doing better, not just on the MacBook but even on Siri, AppleTV, HomePod, Touchbar (glitches), HomeKit etc. Last few years feels like we are being treated like beta testers and being drip fed features and fixes (if at all).
 
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Qaulity said:
Nah, pretty sure heat sink size is independent of fan size. It would not be unlike the current situation with apple putting a processor in a 50W TDP chassis even though it can pull 125W peak load. Except the results would be better I'm sure.
Click to expand...

No. If you increase the volume from which you want to draw heat, you need to increase airflow. You can do this by increasing pressure, but that means more RPM and thus more noise. The easiest way is increase fan area using a larger diameter fan and get more airflow volume per revolution of the fan.
 
Ma2k5 said:
Not a fan of him, but one video recently that hit the nail on the head was
- it is basically how Apple can get away with making mistakes and have their user base defend them against anyone who mentions such failure - similar to an abused girlfriend situation who blames everyone but their abuser. Meanwhile, any other company would be burnt at the stake.

So why do we have this emotional attachment to Apple, which other companies don’t seem to get the benefit of?

I think it is two fold.

1) Apple market products to your emotions, not strictly need or functionality. I was working as a dev for one of the major automotive car companies and part of their strategy was to become like Apple and market to emotions, they wanted people to but their products as an emotional driven event.

The idea is, if someone becomes emotionally involved with a product, things like price, or issues, or lack of capabilities compared to the competition become irrelevant. We all have certain brands or products we naturally have an affinity to, even though there seem to be logical better alternatives.

2) One of the main selling points of Apple is the ecosystem - the idea that you can have multiple products that seamlessly integrate. It is great and it is the kind of thing that makes you want to buy an Apple TV even though you’d be better served by maybe a Roku, it’s what’s makes you buy an Apple Watch when you don’t even like watches (I’m guilty). People who never used a MacBook now suddenly think maybe it’d be nice to buy one and have it sync with your iPhone.

Lack of functionality, issues or defects all kill the dream of this ecosystem. You’ll see in the various threads where people are doing such crazy work arounds or trying to justify or defend basic lack of functionality that should be expected - because hey, no one wants to feel like the ecosystem is broken. It’s sometbnng even I find I do myself.

@Apple, you got something that most companies don’t, that is there is a huge fan base who are wanting you to succeed - they don’t see you as a corporation, they treat you like their favourite sports team and make excusss on your behalf.

Please, start doing better, not just on the MacBook but even on Siri, AppleTV, HomePod, Touchbar (glitches), HomeKit etc. Last few years feels like we are being treated like beta testers and being drip fed features and fixes (if at all).
Click to expand...

They will do better when:

  1. We start returning their defective hardware when its isn't up to the standards they espouse. If you bought a 2018 run don't walk to your local Apple store now! Keyboard-gate + i9 throttle-gate + T2 SSD port gate. This is a perfect storm. Do you need more proof? Really?
  2. We as a community of fans stop gas-lighting the few among us courageous enough to identify the real systemic and management issues at the top. We're all enthusiasts here and, while it's fun to find cool ad-hoc fixes, sugar-coating just encourages bad behavior. Some tough love is what they need right now.
 
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jerryk said:
No. If you increase the volume from which you want to draw heat, you need to increase airflow. You can do this by increasing pressure, but that means more RPM and thus more noise. The easiest way is increase fan area using a larger diameter fan and get more airflow volume per revolution of the fan.
Click to expand...

So, by increasing the mass and area that is available to absorb heat you will not increase the heat flux away from the processor?

Might want to take a look here: Rate_of_heat_flow

All things staying the same except the area you will have a higher rate of heat flow. Simply adding a larger surface area heat sink and expanding the vents across the entire length of the notebook and doing nothing else will improve the thermal performance of the notebook, if you make the heat sink sufficiently large enough you could eliminate the fans all together.
 
Ma2k5 said:
Not a fan of him, but one video recently that hit the nail on the head was
- it is basically how Apple can get away with making mistakes and have their user base defend them against anyone who mentions such failure - similar to an abused girlfriend situation who blames everyone but their abuser. Meanwhile, any other company would be burnt at the stake.

So why do we have this emotional attachment to Apple, which other companies don’t seem to get the benefit of?

I think it is two fold.

1) Apple market products to your emotions, not strictly need or functionality. I was working as a dev for one of the major automotive car companies and part of their strategy was to become like Apple and market to emotions, they wanted people to but their products as an emotional driven event.

The idea is, if someone becomes emotionally involved with a product, things like price, or issues, or lack of capabilities compared to the competition become irrelevant. We all have certain brands or products we naturally have an affinity to, even though there seem to be logical better alternatives.

2) One of the main selling points of Apple is the ecosystem - the idea that you can have multiple products that seamlessly integrate. It is great and it is the kind of thing that makes you want to buy an Apple TV even though you’d be better served by maybe a Roku, it’s what’s makes you buy an Apple Watch when you don’t even like watches (I’m guilty). People who never used a MacBook now suddenly think maybe it’d be nice to buy one and have it sync with your iPhone.

Lack of functionality, issues or defects all kill the dream of this ecosystem. You’ll see in the various threads where people are doing such crazy work arounds or trying to justify or defend basic lack of functionality that should be expected - because hey, no one wants to feel like the ecosystem is broken. It’s sometbnng even I find I do myself.

@Apple, you got something that most companies don’t, that is there is a huge fan base who are wanting you to succeed - they don’t see you as a corporation, they treat you like their favourite sports team and make excusss on your behalf.

Please, start doing better, not just on the MacBook but even on Siri, AppleTV, HomePod, Touchbar (glitches), HomeKit etc. Last few years feels like we are being treated like beta testers and being drip fed features and fixes (if at all).
Click to expand...

I consider myself a "fan" of apple since the days of apple iic. This issue has just sicken me. I'm so upset about how apple has been treating it's user lately. I'm even more sicken by some of the blind defense of apple's behavior. Just reading some of the post on this thread has me embarrassed to call myself a apple fan...
 
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Video previously posted but here's a screenshot from it with the max fan. i9 already faster in basically everything he tested (except premiere) but the max fans showed a pretty big boost. My 2015 maxes out fans anytime I render something intensive... so doesn't bug me at all to crank'em up myself if need be to gain some speed.

 

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kylepro88 said:
Video previously posted but here's a screenshot from it with the max fan. i9 already faster in basically everything he tested (except premiere) but the max fans showed a pretty big boost. My 2015 maxes out fans anytime I render something intensive... so doesn't bug me at all to crank'em up myself if need be to gain some speed.

Click to expand...

Good video, but I still want to see a comparison with the 2.GHz 2018 model.
 
joebclash said:
I consider myself a "fan" of apple since the days of apple iic. This issue has just sicken me. I'm so upset about how apple has been treating it's user lately. I'm even more sicken by some of the blind defense of apple's behavior. Just reading some of the post on this thread has me embarrassed to call myself a apple fan...
Click to expand...
Hear Hear!
 
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EDS66 said:
another comprehensive review of throttling and Volta usage.
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Christ ... I felt like I was walking into a club. It was even difficult to hear the guy talk over the dance music ... just like a real club.
 
Got my i9/32/560X/2TB today. Ran Power Gadget with my Macs Fan setup. I took this screenshot right after it finished installing.

Results during installation of 60GB of libraries into Logic Pro X, after installing/downloading 520GB of NI Samples/VSTs/Plugins with similar results.

More testing later when I start bouncing big audio files. Let me know what you think.

I still vote that its a fan management problem, coupled by the tight chassis. I took it into my own hands, granted, utilization was very low, so it is a hot potato, but with proper cooling it screamed.

EDIT: In this post I'm really just pointing out that it never went under 4GHZ during operation while I was downloading big files, transferring files from two different drives and boring the interwebs. I'm not torture testing this machine for the sake of it... just showing routine operation while playing with my fans speeds.
 

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augustya said:
Uh ? Jon say's Mid Tier 6 Core model is Best Bang for your Buck ! But does he mean the i7 Processor Model? or the i9 Processor Model ? Because both are 6 Core right ?
Click to expand...

He ment i7 2.6.

Since base is i7 2,2 and upgrade is i9 2,9.

And yes, all three are six cores.
 
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