(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[Corncab44]

While not as expensive as the 5600m upgrade, the 2.4ghz CPU is still an expensive upgrade if you are only wanting it for reduced fan noise and don't care about or need or want the improved CPU performance. It will not solve the problem, like it sounds the 5600m will. It might be at best, very slightly less noisy. Not worth it.

That said, while I've only used the machine without eGPU for a few days to test and this was a few weeks ago, I believe the noise levels with 2.4ghz and 5300m were not that bad with lid open and external display under light to medium load. Maybe around 3500rpm on average.

Keep in mind all these kind of reports are anecdotal at best. I'd be we wary of making a purchase decision based on this. But on the plus side, it might be worth testing if the fan noise is really absolutely critical for you, because apple has a good return policy.

Did you play any videos during that time? I find that I can run a lot of things on both my models in clamshell or the screen open as well while keeping it under 3,000, but the minute I do anything like play a video or god forbid launch a zoom call (for zoom this is true of the laptop simply on its own), the fans rev up like all hell. This is all much worse on my i9 2.3 model.

I actually think I'll stay with the i7. Here's a recent test I did playing a few videos at once:

i9 2.3 w/ 5500m

clamshell with turbo boost off: drain of 55-65 watts (with bursts to 70); consistent 20 watts to the 5500m. Fans at 5,000, temps around 70.
screen open with turbo boost off: drain 65-70 watts (with bursts to 75-80 watts); consistent 25+ watts to the 5500m. Fans maxed, temps again around 70.

i7 2.6 w/ 5300m

clamshell with turbo boost off: drain of 45 watts (rare burst up for a split second); 15 watts to 5300m. Temps around 62, with fans at 4,000.
screen open with turbo boost off: 65 total watts, 23 watts to 5300m. Temps around 70, fans 5,000.

Best test is one I just did -- a zoom call with a few windows open caused my i9 model to max out fans; the same thing on my i7 model is running at 2,000! RPM. All of this is with turbo boost switched off.

I just don't see how a 2.4 i9 is going to solve this. Maybe I have a bum unit, but from what I can tell I should steer clear of the i9 or the 5500m. I may play around with Volta before returning, but don't really want to go down that road long term...

 

[vocalnick]

Interesting. I think someone else posted they were noticing spikes caused by Turbo Switcher.

Yeah, that was me. I didnt notice a heat/performance hit, but just spotted the spikes on the Intel Power Gadget graph. I can only surmise that iStat (with the vast array of sensors it needs to poll & update on screen) would take a greater toll.

I've been using the laptop as my daily driver with lid open and 2x 1080 monitors for a couple of days now, and while I don't want to seem like an apologist/polyanna, if I stop looking at istat and just use the thing, I'm finding I'm not really feeling particularly constricted.

(And yes, I know 2x1080p is not a huge graphics load, but if I do jump into iStat it still shows the Radeon High side up in the high-teens, which IIRC is the crux of our complaints here)

In light/medium use it doesn't seem to spin up the fans in any problematic way. I had a 2 hour zoom call the other day, plus chrome open with about a dozen tabs, and it stayed quiet throughout.

This morning I'm working on some Motion 5 transition templates. I'm bouncing back and forth between FCPX and Motion 5, Photoshop is also open, and Chrome is open with about a dozen tabs, one of which is playing music in YouTube Music. Again, it seems pretty well behaved. The fans creep in if I have to do a long render, but that's not unexpected. Once the render is done, they slow down again.

I mean, is it as cool and quiet as my old Mac Pro? No - of course not. It's a notebook.

*shrug*

Am I just lucky? Are my tolerances for fan noise higher than average? (I don't think that's the case)

 

[randomshelf11]

I don't know if you're aware but using the iGPU when connected to an external monitor will require a logic board redesign as only the dGPU is hardwired to external monitor connections. It's Apple's choice of design which is the opposite of Windows laptops which the iGPU is the one hardwired and the dGPU routes through the iGPU when connected to external

Source for this claim please.

 

[Corncab44]

Yeah, that was me. I didnt notice a heat/performance hit, but just spotted the spikes on the Intel Power Gadget graph. I can only surmise that iStat (with the vast array of sensors it needs to poll & update on screen) would take a greater toll.

I've been using the laptop as my daily driver with lid open and 2x 1080 monitors for a couple of days now, and while I don't want to seem like an apologist/polyanna, if I stop looking at istat and just use the thing, I'm finding I'm not really feeling particularly constricted.

(And yes, I know 2x1080p is not a huge graphics load, but if I do jump into iStat it still shows the Radeon High side up in the high-teens, which IIRC is the crux of our complaints here)

In light/medium use it doesn't seem to spin up the fans in any problematic way. I had a 2 hour zoom call the other day, plus chrome open with about a dozen tabs, and it stayed quiet throughout.

This morning I'm working on some Motion 5 transition templates. I'm bouncing back and forth between FCPX and Motion 5, Photoshop is also open, and Chrome is open with about a dozen tabs, one of which is playing music in YouTube Music. Again, it seems pretty well behaved. The fans creep in if I have to do a long render, but that's not unexpected. Once the render is done, they slow down again.

I mean, is it as cool and quiet as my old Mac Pro? No - of course not. It's a notebook.

*shrug*

Am I just lucky? Are my tolerances for fan noise higher than average? (I don't think that's the case)

What specs do you have? What are your fan speeds? I mean, if you can ignore the fans, it's probably not the end of the world. But knowing that it doesn't have to be like this makes it frustrating.

 

[vocalnick]

What specs do you have? What are your fan speeds? I mean, if you can ignore the fans, it's probably not the end of the world. But knowing that it doesn't have to be like this makes it frustrating.

i9 2.3, 32GB RAM, 5500 8GB.

FCPX, Motion 5 & Photoshop CC are all open with projects loaded, Preview is open with a PDF, Notes is open, Chrome is open with 9 tabs (one playing music on youtube music), and just for fun I'm playing a 1080p youtube video in another Chrome window and letting that play while I type this to see if it puts additional strain and gets the fan going.

Ten minutes of the video playing and fan speed is currently at 2050rpm. I'm not "ignoring" the fans - they're just not particularly loud.

 

[Corncab44]

i9 2.3, 32GB RAM, 5500 8GB.

FCPX, Motion 5 & Photoshop CC are all open with projects loaded, Preview is open with a PDF, Notes is open, Chrome is open with 9 tabs (one playing music on youtube music), and just for fun I'm playing a 1080p youtube video in another Chrome window and letting that play while I type this to see if it puts additional strain and gets the fan going.

Ten minutes of the video playing and fan speed is currently at 2050rpm. I'm not "ignoring" the fans - they're just not particularly loud.

This absolutely blows my mind. I have the same exact specs and my experience could not possibly be more different. My fans would be at 5,000 with that, albeit plugged into a 4k monitor.

 

[vocalnick]

This absolutely blows my mind. I have the same exact specs and my experience could not possibly be more different. My fans would be at 5,000 with that, albeit plugged into a 4k monitor.

Yeah, it doesn't seem to gel with what I've read here, but I thought it worth reporting incase there's something to be gleaned from it.

Unfortunately I don't have a 4K external to try it with...

 

[Corncab44]

I've just installed Voltra and am limiting power to 26 watts. It allows me to run my i9 with the screen open, plugged into a monitor and a youtube video playing with the fans around 3,500 RPM. That's still way too high, and at this setting nearly half my power consumption is going to the 3500M, which is hilarious.

I'm not seeing any slowdowns immediately but I'm sure they will crop up. It was basically impossible to run this set up previously since fans would max out, so I guess it's an improvement. But to have to disable SIP and underpower the laptop just to get it to function does not seem like a long term solution. I'm not a Mac user of many years, but it seems like SIP is... good to have on? Not to mention, with the next update, the whole setup may stop working.

This all begs the question, why have an i9 if it has to be underpowered so significantly...
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OK this one is even funnier. I've limited the wattage to NINE using Volta. Radeon is drawing 25, fans are at around 3,500. What a badly designed laptop. I'll stop now.

 

[bomby0]

I've just installed Voltra and am limiting power to 26 watts. It allows me to run my i9 with the screen open, plugged into a monitor and a youtube video playing with the fans around 3,500 RPM. That's still way too high, and at this setting nearly half my power consumption is going to the 3500M, which is hilarious.

I'm not seeing any slowdowns immediately but I'm sure they will crop up. It was basically impossible to run this set up previously since fans would max out, so I guess it's an improvement. But to have to disable SIP and underpower the laptop just to get it to function does not seem like a long term solution. I'm not a Mac user of many years, but it seems like SIP is... good to have on? Not to mention, with the next update, the whole setup may stop working.

This all begs the question, why have an i9 if it has to be underpowered so significantly...
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OK this one is even funnier. I've limited the wattage to NINE using Volta. Radeon is drawing 25, fans are at around 3,500. What a badly designed laptop. I'll stop now.

That is painful just reading what it takes to get the fans at semi-reasonable speeds.

Radeon = pure garbage

 

[mrmachine79]

Did you play any videos during that time? I find that I can run a lot of things on both my models in clamshell or the screen open as well while keeping it under 3,000, but the minute I do anything like play a video or god forbid launch a zoom call (for zoom this is true of the laptop simply on its own), the fans rev up like all hell. This is all much worse on my i9 2.3 model.

I actually think I'll stay with the i7. Here's a recent test I did playing a few videos at once:

i9 2.3 w/ 5500m

clamshell with turbo boost off: drain of 55-65 watts (with bursts to 70); consistent 20 watts to the 5500m. Fans at 5,000, temps around 70.
screen open with turbo boost off: drain 65-70 watts (with bursts to 75-80 watts); consistent 25+ watts to the 5500m. Fans maxed, temps again around 70.

i7 2.6 w/ 5300m

clamshell with turbo boost off: drain of 45 watts (rare burst up for a split second); 15 watts to 5300m. Temps around 62, with fans at 4,000.
screen open with turbo boost off: 65 total watts, 23 watts to 5300m. Temps around 70, fans 5,000.

Best test is one I just did -- a zoom call with a few windows open caused my i9 model to max out fans; the same thing on my i7 model is running at 2,000! RPM. All of this is with turbo boost switched off.

I just don't see how a 2.4 i9 is going to solve this. Maybe I have a bum unit, but from what I can tell I should steer clear of the i9 or the 5500m. I may play around with Volta before returning, but don't really want to go down that road long term...

I'm sure I did. I definitely do zoom calls every day. But like I said, it was a few weeks ago and anecdotal evidence at best.

If you don't also have any need for improved CPU performance, the i9 is not worth it for fan noise alone. As I said, it will not fix the issue. It can't. The issue is with the dgpu.

You might find that your i7 is better in some cases because the 5500m is producing more heat/noise than the 2.4ghz is saving.

I specifically chose 2.4ghz and 5300m for what I believed would be the best thermal and power possible. It's still not solving the issue, but if you want as good as you can get without the 5600m, that's probably it.

Might be slightly better than your i7, but still not solved and still an expensive and otherwise unwanted upgrade.
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Yeah, it doesn't seem to gel with what I've read here, but I thought it worth reporting incase there's something to be gleaned from it.

Unfortunately I don't have a 4K external to try it with...

I think the high power consumption sets the bar quite high at baseline. The problem occurs when additional work is done by the GPU from that already elevated starting point. Scaled resolutions (4k display, "looks like 2560x1440") and hardware accelerated video (eg zoom, teams, etc) seems to then push it high enough to become annoying.

On my old 2019 15" which some people claim was totally fine and did not have this issue at all, I found it did in fact have exactly the same issue and it would be worst with scaled resokution and video conference calls and Mission control gesture animations. It was actually much worse than the 16" because not only was it noisy (which I ignored for a long time) but performance often ground to a halt with 1000% kernel task.

I'd be interested to know how your machine performs with a 4k display and scaled resolutions.

 

[mrmachine79]

This all begs the question, why have an i9 if it has to be underpowered so significantly...

It doesn't. The dGPU needs to be downclocked, but that is not possible. So people do the only other thing they can do, turn down other sources of heat to accommodate the badly behaving dGPU.

Everyone blames the CPU because it's the only thing we can adjust and adjusting it helps (a little). It's the dGPU at fault. The 5600m works better. The CPU and heat and fans are totally fine and performance is incredible with an eGPU preventing the dGPU from running at max speed.

The i9 is a great CPU and the MBP can cool it just fine. But it can't cool a dGPU that uses 20w to do basically nothing at baseline, as soon as the dGPU has to also do any actual work.

 

[sco]

This absolutely blows my mind. I have the same exact specs and my experience could not possibly be more different. My fans would be at 5,000 with that, albeit plugged into a 4k monitor.

What sort of temps are you at when not under load? What is ambient temperature?

I had lots of trouble with my previous MBPro throttling under load (2015 model with scissor keys). After much investigation I found that battery temp had a lot to do with it.. once ambient went above 24 deg. C the battery temp would rise when CPU was under load and this would trigger the throttling. I read this as battery longevity was a primary consideration and the machine would throttle to keep battery temps down.

I'm not saying this is happening specifically now with the MB Pro 16 but there are likely a number of factors that go into the fan speed decisions, so there may be other issues to solve to get the fan speeds down.

I had to run my air conditioning anytime I was doing work to get it to function reasonably. I switched to an iMac as my primary machine a couple of years ago to avoid this. I'm now back on this MBPro 16" as my primary machine as I needed more RAM and more cores and more portability for the workloads I'm running. Stick a lot of heat generation in a small space and you need to move a lot of cool air to keep heat under control. Unfortunately too much heat in some scenarios (5500M + external monitor) doesn't help.

At the moment it is winter here and my office is the coolest it will be. I suspect I may get more fan noise when we head into summer.

As a side note... I'm finding my machine (5600M) when not running VMs or doing a big compile is running well - completely silent. It's only when running VMs (which are running developer tools) or doing big compiles on bare machine do the fans spin up. As I'm typing this I have all throttling in Volta turned off and the MBPro is silent - fans under 2000 RPM. Looking like 35W is the sweet spot in Volta for keeping fans under control with my workload with a VMs running. I had it at 36W earlier today and the fans started to get noisy under load (a Teams call plus a VM running developer tools).

 

[Corncab44]

I'm genuinely at a loss that this can be such a longstanding issue on Macbooks. A cheap windows laptop doesn't have this problem. You're right, mrmachine79, this is entirely due to the dGPU and we are just altering what we can to make due. It's ruined what was a computer I really enjoyed.

What about this mythic SwithResX fix? I spent a few hours tonight trying to figure it out but got nowhere after a few restarts.

All of this said, I'm going with the i7/5300m because I don't need the trouble of the i9 in this bad design. To cripple the i9 with Volta so it takes less power than the dGPU is really absurd. But that was what I was going to do with my i9!

 

[MacosaurusNEXT]

It doesn't. The dGPU needs to be downclocked, but that is not possible. So people do the only other thing they can do, turn down other sources of heat to accommodate the badly behaving dGPU.

Everyone blames the CPU because it's the only thing we can adjust and adjusting it helps (a little). It's the dGPU at fault. The 5600m works better. The CPU and heat and fans are totally fine and performance is incredible with an eGPU preventing the dGPU from running at max speed.

The i9 is a great CPU and the MBP can cool it just fine. But it can't cool a dGPU that uses 20w to do basically nothing at baseline, as soon as the dGPU has to also do any actual work.

that is so very true, with an eGPU this is actually a fine working laptop. dGPU driver flaws, we can not fix ourselfs, the way EVERY App draws it‘s GUI via Metal API with fps of that external Monitor on that dGPU, which gives extra heat, this thing becomes unusable.
The real scandal here is that Apple seals up their Systems with T2 in every aspect and ignores mistakes only they can fix. We should stop fiddling around with TurboBoost Switcher, Volta etc. and consequently return these units. That‘s what i did after four months !! of struggeling with Apple Support reps, my local retailer...

Apple, that‘s the other side of that shiny medal when you seal up your systems like this, ask any car manufacturer

 

[davidbend]

Apple says the update also fixes an issue where certain USB mouse and trackpads could lose connection, which is a problem that was affecting USB 2.0 devices that were used with new MacBook Air and MacBook Pro models.

From MacRumors.

This issue exists for about a month. Our issue exists for more than half a year!
Why they didn't do anything? Why they didn't ignore the USB issue as well?

We have to do something about it.

For now, keep send 30 feedbacks each day, we need to blow up them with a lot of bad feedback, and keep calling the support.

 

[dooyou]

Why they didn't do anything? Why they didn't ignore the USB issue as well?

Let's not fool ourselves, the next generation will no longer exhibit this behavior. We here have had bad luck. It's simple.

It wouldn't be the first time at Apple.

 

[sainecy]

From MacRumors.

This issue exists for about a month. Our issue exists for more than half a year!
Why they didn't do anything? Why they didn't ignore the USB issue as well?

We have to do something about it.

For now, keep send 30 feedbacks each day, we need to blow up them with a lot of bad feedback, and keep calling the support.

Maybe better to post feedback here https://developer.apple.com/bug-reporting/

 

[Achever]

Someone got some experience with the i9 2.3 and the 5600M

 

[sco]

Someone got some experience with the i9 2.3 and the 5600M

Read back through the last few pages of this thread... you'll see my experiences as well as others.

 

[David58117]

Just got the i9 (2.3), 16GB , 1TB , 5500M yesterday AM, and definitely having a better experience than what this thread has led me to believe.

I'm using it in clamshell mode connected to an LG4k (at 3360 x 1890) via usbc->dp. I've been downloading / installing software instruments from Logic / Native Access for over the past 12 hours, and temps (according to iStat) have been in 60s / 70s, with small spikes upwards to 70s/80s.

Right now I'm watching something on YouTube TV (through their app), browsing in safari, downloading and installing software through Native Access, updating linux VMs (Parallels), and installing / lightly using Netbeans 8.2.

According to the iStat temp in the menu bar, I'm at 66C, with jumps to low 70s.

Although the room is kind of cool right now, which is probably helping keep temps down.

I should have a WebEx call later, and I haven't really messed with Logic too much yet, but I mean...it is an i9 in a thin laptops body, so I'm definitely expecting heat and fans to come on. I'm also going to stop with the Stat monitoring at some point, because I've been there before and that just leads to obsessiveness over numbers VS actually using the damn thing. The case was definitely hotter yesterday than my old 15" (2015 base model), but..it's double the cores in approximately the same size.

 

[decipherkl]

Just out of curiosity, what's the battery health of your MBP 16? Especially for those who had it for the last 6 months and used mainly plugged in? Mine is reporting 92% which I think is a little low for a relatively new device (I bought mine in December 2019). Or is this the result of the new battery health management introduced in 10.15.5?

Would appreciate it if people can share some stats.

 

[David58117]

Just out of curiosity, what's the battery health of your MBP 16? Especially for those who had it for the last 6 months and used mainly plugged in? Mine is reporting 92% which I think is a little low for a relatively new device (I bought mine in December 2019). Or is this the result of the new battery health management introduced in 10.15.5?

Would appreciate it if people can share some stats.

 

[decipherkl]

A perfect score - I'm impressed --- curious about mine tho

 

[Achever]

Just got the i9 (2.3), 16GB , 1TB , 5500M yesterday AM, and definitely having a better experience than what this thread has led me to believe.

I'm using it in clamshell mode connected to an LG4k (at 3360 x 1890) via usbc->dp. I've been downloading / installing software instruments from Logic / Native Access for over the past 12 hours, and temps (according to iStat) have been in 60s / 70s, with small spikes upwards to 70s/80s.

Right now I'm watching something on YouTube TV (through their app), browsing in safari, downloading and installing software through Native Access, updating linux VMs (Parallels), and installing / lightly using Netbeans 8.2.

According to the iStat temp in the menu bar, I'm at 66C, with jumps to low 70s.

Although the room is kind of cool right now, which is probably helping keep temps down.

I should have a WebEx call later, and I haven't really messed with Logic too much yet, but I mean...it is an i9 in a thin laptops body, so I'm definitely expecting heat and fans to come on. I'm also going to stop with the Stat monitoring at some point, because I've been there before and that just leads to obsessiveness over numbers VS actually using the damn thing. The case was definitely hotter yesterday than my old 15" (2015 base model), but..it's double the cores in approximately the same size.

4000 rpm fan speed “feels” a bit high tho? At least to me

 

[Corncab44]

Just got the i9 (2.3), 16GB , 1TB , 5500M yesterday AM, and definitely having a better experience than what this thread has led me to believe.

I'm using it in clamshell mode connected to an LG4k (at 3360 x 1890) via usbc->dp. I've been downloading / installing software instruments from Logic / Native Access for over the past 12 hours, and temps (according to iStat) have been in 60s / 70s, with small spikes upwards to 70s/80s.

Right now I'm watching something on YouTube TV (through their app), browsing in safari, downloading and installing software through Native Access, updating linux VMs (Parallels), and installing / lightly using Netbeans 8.2.

According to the iStat temp in the menu bar, I'm at 66C, with jumps to low 70s.

Although the room is kind of cool right now, which is probably helping keep temps down.

I should have a WebEx call later, and I haven't really messed with Logic too much yet, but I mean...it is an i9 in a thin laptops body, so I'm definitely expecting heat and fans to come on. I'm also going to stop with the Stat monitoring at some point, because I've been there before and that just leads to obsessiveness over numbers VS actually using the damn thing. The case was definitely hotter yesterday than my old 15" (2015 base model), but..it's double the cores in approximately the same size.

Your fans are already at 4,000 there, but if you're not bothered by that then problem solved! Not being sarcastic, since this is largely whether the fans themselves bother you.