(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[spinnn]

I’ve been reading this thread and experiences people are having with the 5600m option.
I would now need to make sure that this upgrade makes the 16 inch silent in normal use compared to the 5500m. Could someone with the 5600 option assure me that? Thanks

 

[Artemis777]

do you think there's a chance that apple might replace this hot garbage with the new apple silicon 16 inch if under apple care+?

 

[arche3]

I’ve been reading this thread and experiences people are having with the 5600m option.
I would now need to make sure that this upgrade makes the 16 inch silent in normal use compared to the 5500m. Could someone with the 5600 option assure me that? Thanks

I am currently using a 5600m with a LG 29 monitor. I have the macbook pro open. the fans are silent all day for regular use, Youtube, etc.... CPU temp between 47-50C

 

[David58117]

Update:

Downloads are done, I have been messing around with Logic for awhile. Temp is 64C, fans spiked from 4600rpm (when I left logic to continue playing a project, and started browsing safari/opened Spotify) to under 4000rpm, and it's still in clamshell mode connected to one 27" 4k.

I really gotta say I've been nothing but impressed with this laptop.

I even imported a short 5 min video (1.5GB) into logic and played around with a backing track. Temp goes to 68/69C, fans under/around 3000rpm.

4000 rpm fan speed “feels” a bit high tho? At least to me

I mean - it is a laptop. And I was doing a lot of things (watching a video, updating a linux VM, downloading and installing gigs of software, browsing safari, etc) - I would be MORE worried if the fans didn't come on. I haven't had a proper desktop in years, but I would imagine the fans would be sounding then too.

I've read a few pages of this thread, I'm not sure if the issue has been fixed, or if people are just expecting way too much from a thin laptop with an i9 processor (as in - they think it's suppose to be utterly silent under strain). I was mainly concerned just connected to a 4k monitor would make it sound like a jet engine under normal use - but that's not my experience at all.

I'm probably going to end up keeping this laptop (again, this thread made me believe there was a design flaw), and uninstall iStat and just use it as normal. This is the 5500M 4GB version.

 

[mcnuggetswithcheese]

Just out of curiosity, what's the battery health of your MBP 16? Especially for those who had it for the last 6 months and used mainly plugged in? Mine is reporting 92% which I think is a little low for a relatively new device (I bought mine in December 2019). Or is this the result of the new battery health management introduced in 10.15.5?

Would appreciate it if people can share some stats.

I got mine in February so it's still less than 6 months of use, but I think it's on the same trajectory as yours.

 

[thedocbwarren]

I'm thinking this is getting managed (I have the setting on) and I'm not sure I trust the numbers fully. Not having any issue with holding a charge.

I got mine in February so it's still less than 6 months of use, but I think it's on the same trajectory as yours.

View attachment 934455

 

[Grohowiak]

I got a reply from apple engineers today and not surprisingly this is working "as expected".
So I asked if 100 Celsius (down throttling) is normal and the person that is taking care of my case simply said that it bothers him too and doesn't seem right and he proceeded with a follow up to the engineers so they explain that.

This is the kind of usage I get when working with simulators in Xcode.
i7 / 5300 open lid + external WQHD

This data was generated by the diagnostic tool that apple asked me to run.
Once the files were generated I decided to inspect them myself and this is the kind of cookies you get when you dig.
******** of info there but this two columns appear a lot during the 5-6 minute test that I ran and was told to use the laptop like I normally would.

**** SMC sensors ****

CPU Thermal level: 63
GPU Thermal level: 37
IO Thermal level: 13
Fan: 2663.23 rpm
CPU die temperature: 99.49 C (power)
GPU die temperature: 82.00 C
CPU Plimit: 0.40
GPU Plimit (Int): 0.00
Number of prochots: 0

**** Processor usage ****

Performance Limited Due to:
CPU LIMIT THERMAL
CPU LIMIT ICCMAX/PL4/OTHER
CPU LIMIT MAX_TURBO_LIMIT
CPU LIMIT TURBO_ATTENUATION
GPU LIMIT ICCMAX/PL4/OTHER
CPU/GPU Overlap: 0.06%
Cores Active: 94.36%
GPU Active: 0.07%
Avg Num of Cores Active: 2.82

CPU is cooking at this point but fans at 26xx. Down throttling starts, fans catch up and temps drop, rinse and repeat.

In clamshell CPU temps hover at 87-90 celsius when I am doing same routine and about 81-84 when not connected to external. Huge difference.

Ultimately the "engineers" are still not accepting (at least publicly) this as a issue. Unfortunately for them the reality distortion field doesn't work anymore and I will keep bugging them about it. Apple support itself, as always very nice to deal with at least in my case.

 

[brodocon]

according to the third senior advisor I have spoken with, I have been approved for a free upgrade unit to the 5600 after my 5 replacements, and months of dealing with this. I won't guarantee anything until I am actually holding the new device, but some persistence appears to have paid off.

 

[petterihiisila]

Just out of curiosity, what's the battery health of your MBP 16? Especially for those who had it for the last 6 months and used mainly plugged in? Mine is reporting 92% which I think is a little low for a relatively new device (I bought mine in December 2019). Or is this the result of the new battery health management introduced in 10.15.5?

Would appreciate it if people can share some stats.

87.7% and creeping down. Bought in Nov 2019. I’ll start negotiating a warranty issue once it reaches 85%. EU laws provide two year protection from faults, so I should be covered if it goes below 80% within the next year.

 

[Achever]

There seem to be a lot of variance in overall experience. I would be curious to see more 5600M feedback. I saw some good feedback but I am unsure how consistent it is.

It would be nice if we could collect some data from all the different combinations and plot/visualize it

 

[bomby0]

according to the third senior advisor I have spoken with, I have been approved for a free upgrade unit to the 5600 after my 5 replacements, and months of dealing with this. I won't guarantee anything until I am actually holding the new device, but some persistence appears to have paid off.

Wow! nice job! 5 replacements seems insane tho haha, and I'm guessing all had the overheating with external monitor issue? Maybe there isn't much variance then and all 5300/5500M 16" MBPs are affected.

 

[alexfc]

Wow! nice job! 5 replacements seems insane tho haha, and I'm guessing all had the overheating with external monitor issue? Maybe there isn't much variance then and all 5300/5500M 16" MBPs are affected.

There is no indication that there’s variance. All of the users here get a high idle wattage on Radeon High Side when they connect a monitor and keep the lid open. For some users this results in high temperatures, so the fans start blasting, and for some the temperature doesn’t spike too much, but the high idle wattage is there.

We see some variance when on clamshell mode and when a monitor or 2 are connected, but when it comes to lid open + external monitor every single one of them has high idle wattage and, like I said, for some people it means fans blasting and for some it doesn’t, but the high wattage is always there.

 

[Cosmo M3]

anyone have any luck with 10.15.6 Beta? Haven't had a restart or kernel panic for a few days now.

 

[christiann]

I received a base 16" today and am disappointed because it get's as hot as my 2017 with an external 4K monitor.

Is anybody else experiencing the same issue? I always work with external monitors and running on high resolution and this heating performance is upsetting. It's not cooler than the 2017 version in this respects.

Can you guys share your thoughts on this?

Thanks a lot!

Why don’t you stick with the already large-enough 16 inch

 

[brodocon]

Wow! nice job! 5 replacements seems insane tho haha, and I'm guessing all had the overheating with external monitor issue? Maybe there isn't much variance then and all 5300/5500M 16" MBPs are affected.

Yes. I had both the 5300 (3 units) and the 5500 (2 units) all of which got insanely hot when connected to external monitors even if in sleep mode!! What a mess. Trusting the users here to said that the 5600 different memory seems to keep the Radeon high side much lower and subsequently better temps. Fingers crossed.

 

[Grohowiak]

anyone have any luck with 10.15.6 Beta? Haven't had a restart or kernel panic for a few days now.

Neither beta nor actual .6 fixes high temps / radeon wattage draw when connected to external with lid open.
At least not in my case.

 

[Achever]

Yes. I had both the 5300 (3 units) and the 5500 (2 units) all of which got insanely hot when connected to external monitors even if in sleep mode!! What a mess. Trusting the users here to said that the 5600 different memory seems to keep the Radeon high side much lower and subsequently better temps. Fingers crossed.

Curious about ur 5600 experience

 

[dukee101]

I own both a 16-inch 2.6GHz i7 w/ 5300M and an 2.3GHz i9 w/ 5500M and my experience with them has frustrated me to no end, just like everyone else in this forum. I've experimented with them in various ways and sharing my results now. The results are not promising

Model	Display Config	System/PECI Temp	CPU Wattage	dGPU Wattage	Fan Speed
i7 w/ 5300M	Internal only	~100℉	~7W	~0W	1800 RPM
i7 w/ 5300M	Internal+External	~130℉	~5W	~18W	2500 RPM
i7 w/ 5300M	Clamshell+External	~130℉	~5W	~18W	2800 RPM
i9 w/ 5500M	Internal only	~110℉	~6W	~0W	1800 RPM
i9 w/ 5500M	Internal+External	~145℉	~5W	~18W	2500 RPM
i9 w/ 5500M	Clamshell+External	~150℉	~5W	~18W	2800 RPM

Conclusion:
For these 16-inch MBPs, whether an external display is connected or not, or whether the Mac is in clamshell mode, has no bearing on disproportionate dGPU wattage and resultant increased system heat and fan speed.

It appears that these machines were architected with the following principle:
"Is an external display connected? If yes, turn on dGPU. Is dGPU enabled? Crank up to at least 18W."

I have NO idea why they were designed this way. We know through years of mobile Macs with Intel integrated GPUs, that those integrated GPUs can run displays like mine (2560x1440 at 118PPI) with no problems, at minimal wattage/heat. Further, we would expect dGPUs to throttle their power from a light load to a high load as needed, unlike how these AMDs are currently operating.

In other words: what the heck Apple/AMD???

Interestingly, the thermals of both models behave similarly in similar scenarios (e.g. fan speed is always going to be 1800 RPM on either machine "at rest" or 2800 RPM in external display modes, regardless of i7 or i9 / 6-core or 8-core).

Test parameters:
macOS 10.15.5
iStat Menus 6.4
Finder was only foreground process
Macs connected to power at all times
Ambient room temperature at ~75℉
Macs owned for several months (no out-of-box indexing processes running)
Power and display cables both connected to left-side Thunderbolt ports
External display is Dell U2515H (25" at 2560x1440; 118PPI*; connected via DisplayPort>USB-C cable)

* I suspected whether non-retina scaling with this display was the issue (i.e. 110PPI/220PPI is native retina), and trying different 'retina native' resolutions made NO difference either.

 

[chah3]

I was going to purchase a base model MBP 16 but this issue is a deal-breaker for me. I like to connect an external monitor every time I'm home, especially now that I work from home and more screen real estate is awesome. If I'm going to have to deal with fans sounding like my MBP is about to launch into space and the added extremely hot temps... I think I will pass.

 

[David58117]

I was going to purchase a base model MBP 16 but this issue is a deal-breaker for me. I like to connect an external monitor every time I'm home, especially now that I work from home and more screen real estate is awesome. If I'm going to have to deal with fans sounding like my MBP is about to launch into space and the added extremely hot temps... I think I will pass.

See, I thought this way too and put off getting a 16" due to (largely) threads like this.

But I ended up getting one (i9 2.3, 16GB, 1TB, 5500M 4GB), I've been using it in clamshell mode connected to a 4k 27" monitor - I'm not having issues people are talking about. I posted my experience above (on the most recent page), and honestly...everything seems normal.

The laptop is largely silent during normal use when in clamshell mode, temps are good - but it IS a (thin) laptop with a pretty beefy processor..if you're going to push it, expect fans to go on..that's completely normal.

Also, it's going to Index for awhile. The case on mine was very hot the first few hours (I didn't get a temp), particularly CPU temps, but that's normal Mac behavior - it will finish and temps will go down.

Right now (using the laptop as a laptop, disconnected from my monitor) I'm at 44C, with a video playing in chrome, two instances of Safari with numerous tabs each. Doing this yesterday (I just bought it yesterday AM..), the case was hot and the fans were on, and I would of thought something was wrong too if I just listened to this thread.

So..don't be afraid to get it from somewhere with a return window and try it for yourself.

 

[dukee101]

I understand where this is coming from, but the reason I'm worried about this is that extra heat will wear a computer down faster. There's no reason for a computer to behave this way when supposedly so much thought was put into its thermals. It's a really common use-case to keep MBPs docked to an external display, especially if you're the owner of a 16-inch.

I've had 15-inch MBPs from years ago connected to displays of the same resolution that don't heat up like this. That's what the outrage is about. This is a product regression.

 

[sco]

Some people are having no issues particularly in clamshell mode with their particular setup. If I adjusted my setup I could get Radeon power usage down. But it was not a setup I was happy with. I also wanted to make use of the Macbook Pro's display at the same time as external monitors.

 

[thedocbwarren]

I've been living with it knowing it's pulling 20W. Fans are fine enough and don;t really kick in unless I'm compiling or something larger. Solution for me in the future will be an eGPU. Plus that will open up the CPU to have more headroom.

Some people are having no issues particularly in clamshell mode with their particular setup. If I adjusted my setup I could get Radeon power usage down. But it was not a setup I was happy with. I also wanted to make use of the Macbook Pro's display at the same time as external monitors.

 

[sco]

I've been living with it knowing it's pulling 20W. Fans are fine enough and don;t really kick in unless I'm compiling or something larger. Solution for me in the future will be an eGPU. Plus that will open up the CPU to have more headroom.

I'm in VMs all day as well as was getting 24W on the Radeon in my setup so fan noise was too high.. I was lucky that I was in the return window so elected to spend the money I'd spend on an eGPU on the 5600M and return the 5500M.

 

[chah3]

Some people are having no issues particularly in clamshell mode with their particular setup. If I adjusted my setup I could get Radeon power usage down. But it was not a setup I was happy with. I also wanted to make use of the Macbook Pro's display at the same time as external monitors.

Exactly. My current computer is a Windows my work gave me. Very basic, i7 8th gen, with 8gb of ram and an integrated GPU (Intel 620) and it has not given me a single issue when connected to an external monitor and this is a $529 computer. I'm apparently the exception though... I like to have as much screen real estate as I can so I like having both, external and laptop screens side by side so I can work on multiple screens. That's why this issue is of high concern to me.