(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[jaduffy007]

Then you don't seem to need one.

Oh, I need one (dGPU). I work in Capture One Pro, DaVinci Resolve, Photoshop and have massive music production files. I simply will not buy a dGPU in a MBP. I'm buying a desktop. Maybe an iMac. Maybe a Hackintosh. Maybe a PC. Still weighing that decision. I no longer will chase the "dream" of a single machine solution. For me, it's proved to be a delusion.

 

[mrmachine79]

Since I posted a lot in this thread, figure I'd update. I ended up deciding to return both my i7/5300m and my i9 2.3 5500m 8GB. For starters, I don't really need the 5500m, but it was included in the base higher end model, then the 8GB (which I certainly don't need lol) was only $100 more. My i7 had terrible battery life for some reason, but it may be been a dud — it was refurbished.

I'm going to give it one more go with an i.9 2.4 with 5300m graphics, along with the 32GB of ram and 1TB of storage. That works out to the same price as the i9 2.3/5500m.

I've played around with Turbo Boost Switcher and Volta, and find Volta may be a better long term solution. Especially with the i.9, it gives it more space to run in bursts. Anecdotally, I've noticed turning Turbo Booster off can lead to a small bit of lag in some circumstances. I also find the processor actually sticks up to that ceiling of 2.3 or 2.6 or whatever it is vs going up and down as needed. The i7, with higher base clock speed, may actually be better if you're running TBS, though I haven't confirmed that aside from running a few benchmarks (I find geekbench is pretty irrelevant to my workflow).

My hope is that the better binning on the 2.4 i9 will allow me to run it at a reasonable wattage — not totally crippled to make up for the GPU drawing so much power, but lower than it seems to drift up to drawing with little perceptible performance increase. I don't like to pin all my hopes on a piece of software that doesn't seem to get regular support (Volta), but it works for me now when I have to have the laptop screen open as well as an external monitor. Anecdotally, I've also noticed the 5300m draws slightly less power than the 5500m in certain contexts, but again, not scientific.

Should have it by next week, will report back. Thanks everyone for the support here, hopefully this gets fixed in a more concrete fashion at some point, but it doesn't seem likely in the near term.

Try voltage shift instead of Volta. It will allow you to set short and long term power limit independently. So you can still actually burst up to 5ghz. Volta sets both short and long term power limit together, and turbo boost switcher sets both to the base frequency only.

I'm Italian, so probably I won't get the same answer right away. I recorded a bunch of logs with a technician over the phone and he sent everything to the engineering department and they confirmed the issue.

I read all 115 pages of this thread before even starting discussing about the problem, so I know exactly that a lot of people already got an answer from Apple.

The answer they gave me is that this is not suppose to happen and that they will replace my laptop if that fix it. I told them that I already demonstrated at a Genius Bar that the same thing happens with all the others Macbook pro 16, with various cables and monitors.

I also showed them that I am unable to work, because after an hour of two of continuous use, my macbook starts being unresponsive because of the kernel_tasks process, spawning even at 0% CPU usage, and at 70° celsius.

I'm not concerned about the longevity of the laptop, battery swelling or other problems. I'm concerned about not being able to work continuously because my macbook overheats and slows down. I work as a programmer, but in September when university restarts I'll need to use a lot more resources, as I am a Product Design student.

EDIT: One last thing. I don't want to be fooled by some mediocre engineers who says that everything is right when clearly is not. There's no way that a gpu needs to be at full clocks to run an external monitor, and even if it needs, I expect to see a a different power consumption based on the current resolution on the external monitor. Less pixels = less power = less power consumption.

Sure. They may say it should not happen and replace your laptop. But that fixes nothing.

If you just need your machine to work, don't waste your time with Apple support. Get an egpu or return/sell and buy a 5600m model or iMac.

 

[Petter Larsen]

Hi,
I got in touch with the engineers at Apple and they confirmed that there’s an issue. I will investigate the problem with them during the next days and I will report what happen.

EDIT: I already told them everything that we said on this thread. I said that the previous two technicians disappeared and never replied to me. The one who is currently following my report is a very nice guy, and always replied to me instantly. I think that whenever you don’t get the answer that you are expecting from Apple, you have to retry multiply times, and in the end maybe you get to something

Great, let us know as soon as you hear something from this engineer 😉

 

[DaveXX]

In my opinion thats the only possible way for a „fix“. If you can call it that.

But that the mbp 16 will still see the 10th generation, I would not regard as secured.

Why should a 10th generation Intel fix any problem?

It maybe a little bit better with a 10nm Intel (which is available maybe end of next year) but the main problem is the GPU and the design.

Beside a driver update for the GPU the only improvement could be that the internal display is always driven by the iGPU. Because an external monitor can only be driven by a dGPU by design the internal display could be driven by the iGPU if lid is open.

 

[Corncab44]

Try voltage shift instead of Volta. It will allow you to set short and long term power limit independently. So you can still actually burst up to 5ghz. Volta sets both short and long term power limit together, and turbo boost switcher sets both to the base frequency only.


Sure. They may say it should not happen and replace your laptop. But that fixes nothing.

If you just need your machine to work, don't waste your time with Apple support. Get an egpu or return/sell and buy a 5600m model or iMac.

I'll give that a go on my new model, seemed a little more complicated but an even better solution.

Have you tried it? What settings have you or anyone else found best?

 

[dooyou]

Why should a 10th generation Intel fix any problem?

A switch to the 10th generation does not necessarily mean that they only simply change the cpu. If the error is hardware based, and they won't know that since yesterday, they will fix it "quietly" with the new version. By whatever that means.

Let's face it, if it were that easy to fix, they would have done it long ago. Of course i can be wrong, i have no idea what happens behind closed doors at apple, just like everyone else here.

And honestly, just because the mbp uses a dgpu doesn't mean that the device has to run hot and it necessarily need the intel gpu. There are enough examples in the past and current pc competitors that work perfectly with a dgpu (of course, with external monitors). The reason why most of the people are buying the 16" mbp is the more powerful dgpu. Except for those people who spend 3,000 euros/dollar on a better tablet pc substitute.

 

[DaveXX]

current pc competitors that work perfectly with a dgpu (of course, with external monitors).

competitors using iGPU connected to an external Monitor like the MBP 13. And this is the reason MBP 13 doesn't have this problem but any other MBP with a dedicated GPU has it because the TB Ports are hardwired to the dGPU by design (so no change possible here).

The other point is the Heatsink is connected to the GPU AND the CPU. So if the GPU gets hot the CPU will get hot as well. The price for a thin and small Device.

And it seems the AMD GPU needs to much power while idling. And this is just fixable with an AMD Driver and Apple can't do anything to support this.

As i said the only solution i could imagine to use at least the iGPU for the internal display while open or get a better optimized Driver and it seems the RP5600M does have a better driver.

 

[dooyou]

competitors using iGPU connected to an external Monitor like the MBP 13. And this is the reason MBP 13 doesn't have this problem but any other MBP with a dedicated GPU has it because the TB Ports are hardwired to the dGPU by design (so no change possible here).

Excuse me, but what kind of a comparison is that? You have to compare devices in a similar class.

My Lenovo P50 also has a dGPU + the iGPU from Intel. And there is no increased consumption on my external monitor with the dGPU, at least not to the extent that it would be due to a bug in the 16" MBP. Of course, the P50 is not as flat as the 16" MBP and better to cool, but that doesn't change the fact. A comparison with the XPS from Dell would be interesting. But the comparison with a 13" MBP is misleading.

 

[DaveXX]

Excuse me, but what kind of a comparison is that? You have to compare devices in a similar class.

what is so difficult to understand...

MBP 15/16 using always dGPU! if external monitor is connected. Competitiors WITH DGPU using IGPU connected to external monitor and are just using the dGPU IF needed.
So of course they are much cooler and don't face the issue. So connected to an external Monitor without load they behave LIKE a MBP 13 because the dGPU is NOT used.

Do you understand now the comparison...

 

[dooyou]

Do you understand now the comparison...

You just want to get to a completely different point than me and then you think i don't understand it. My P50 always runs with the dgpu connected to a external screen.

 

[DaveXX]

Its about what could apple do to fix this problem. And one of the solution could be to use the iGPU by default while connected to external Displays (which will be just possible by a hardware redesign which we will likely never see).

And i'm sure about that a better heatsink design with a thicker design will not happen as well so the only solution left we can expect is by improved drivers.

 

[kaans]

Wild idea, I guess one could cut 1MM out of the Heatsink in the middle

This way you don't have a CPU primed at 65C all the time, GPU will likely sit at ~60C with 20W usage, stay there, but the CPU will be 40C-60C, instead of 65C-80C

Obviously a solution for a time where everyone's warranty runs out and these machines become obsolete

Edit: Look at my thermal level, CPU is high, yet it's all because of the GPU - without the GPU priming the CPU, it seems to me that the average temps could be 10-15C lower

 

[dooyou]

I have now stressed my MBP a little bit, I have it only since a few days. Sure, in clamshell mode. My iMac 27" (best configuration 2017) is definitely louder when rendering. And with the MBP 16" many people already write about airplane turbines. Sure, if that would be also while surfing, it would be disturbing and not normal. I would hate it. But during demanding work, normal. Feelings can be very different. While surfing and office it is almost completely silent. About 5 W in clamshell mode, no surprise and nothing new.

 

[thedocbwarren]

Exactly. Mine during a Zoom meeting and using two externals runs fine without very high fans. I get the 20W for the AMD GPU but it's always so with external.

I have now stressed my MBP a little bit, I have it only since a few days. Sure, in clamshell mode. My iMac 27" (best configuration 2017) is definitely louder when rendering. And with the MBP 16" many people already write about airplane turbines. Sure, if that would be also while surfing, it would be disturbing and not normal. I would hate it. But during demanding work, normal. Feelings can be very different. While surfing and office it is almost completely silent. About 5 W in clamshell mode, no surprise and nothing new.

 

[bad_apple]

Hi All,

I recently picked up a MacBook Pro 16" laptop (16GB/512GB SSD/AMD 5300M 4GB GPU) and have been dealing with high temperatures and inconsistent thermal control by Catalina 10.15.5 and 10.15.6. I'm working from home given the pandemic situation and have been running the MacBook with the clamshell open & connected to an external AOC 32" 1440p monitor via HDMI at 75Hz.

I spent quite a number of hours reading this thread and I appear to have a slightly worse problem than all of you:

When the computer is in normal use with the external monitor, the fan is running at about 2,700 RPM & the CPU is around 59C.

Aside from the sweaty typing situation, I have the added excitement of a spinning ball issue and a 1-3x a day crash that appears to be due to a runaway thermal situation. I installed Macs Fan Control last week to monitor the situation and today I happened to be watching when the spinning ball issue started. The reported CPU PECI temperature was a full 100C and the fans were not yet spinning at full speed. I left the computer in this state and the fans brought the temps down to about 83C before the machine crashed to a black screen and rebooted itself. This has been the normal MO of this machine since I received it, and it's maddening.

I swapped over to using a DisplayPort cable as a test and the laptop heat issue doesn't disappear like others on this thread have reported. Running the external monitor at 60Hz doesn't really make a difference in heat or stop the crashes that I'm seeing.

I didn't see anyone else with actual crash issues, or are some of you seeing similar instability?

 

[dooyou]

Exactly. Mine during a Zoom meeting and using two externals runs fine without very high fans. I get the 20W for the AMD GPU but it's always so with external.

Whereby I have to say that especially apps like Zoom or especially MS Teams (which I unfortunately have to use at work) for whatever reasons the device stresses a lot. My laptop (Thinkpad X1) at work is really panting (?) and I mean, we are only talking about a communication tool.

I didn't see anyone else with actual crash issues, or are some of you seeing similar instability?

It seems to be a bit of a lottery, some devices have no problems at all (except about 20 W lid open) and other crashes without any clear reason.

 

[brodocon]

just received email notification that my product replacement has been created - a UPS shipping label will be sent to me, I ship my 5500 to apple, and they will then send me the 5600 i9. persistence has paid off. I suggest that if you have had multiple returns or exchanges for this issue, that you press in.

 

[mcnuggetswithcheese]

Hi All,

I recently picked up a MacBook Pro 16" laptop (16GB/512GB SSD/AMD 5300M 4GB GPU) and have been dealing with high temperatures and inconsistent thermal control by Catalina 10.15.5 and 10.15.6. I'm working from home given the pandemic situation and have been running the MacBook with the clamshell open & connected to an external AOC 32" 1440p monitor via HDMI at 75Hz.

I spent quite a number of hours reading this thread and I appear to have a slightly worse problem than all of you:

When the computer is in normal use with the external monitor, the fan is running at about 2,700 RPM & the CPU is around 59C.

Aside from the sweaty typing situation, I have the added excitement of a spinning ball issue and a 1-3x a day crash that appears to be due to a runaway thermal situation. I installed Macs Fan Control last week to monitor the situation and today I happened to be watching when the spinning ball issue started. The reported CPU PECI temperature was a full 100C and the fans were not yet spinning at full speed. I left the computer in this state and the fans brought the temps down to about 83C before the machine crashed to a black screen and rebooted itself. This has been the normal MO of this machine since I received it, and it's maddening.

I swapped over to using a DisplayPort cable as a test and the laptop heat issue doesn't disappear like others on this thread have reported. Running the external monitor at 60Hz doesn't really make a difference in heat or stop the crashes that I'm seeing.

I didn't see anyone else with actual crash issues, or are some of you seeing similar instability?

I also use a 16" with 5300M (with a 4K monitor) but I rarely reach 100C even under load, and if it starts to get there the fans would kick in. If an SMC reset doesn't help then you may want to contact Apple Support about this.

 

[bad_apple]

I also use a 16" with 5300M (with a 4K monitor) but I rarely reach 100C even under load, and if it starts to get there the fans would kick in. If an SMC reset doesn't help then you may want to contact Apple Support about this.

I've done the SMC/PRAM resets and have observed no change in behavior.

It seems like the built-in fan curves within the OS are broken or don't react quickly when the CPU temp is spiking and then it's too late. I have a genius bar appointment this weekend, hopefully I can organize a machine swap-out.

 

[mrmachine79]

I'll give that a go on my new model, seemed a little more complicated but an even better solution.

Have you tried it? What settings have you or anyone else found best?

I haven't tried it. I use an eGPU. I would start with the values that Vtudio found to be acceptable. He says "I personally use a PL2 limit of 60W and a PL1 limit of around 30W."

Aside from the sweaty typing situation, I have the added excitement of a spinning ball issue and a 1-3x a day crash that appears to be due to a runaway thermal situation. I installed Macs Fan Control last week to monitor the situation and today I happened to be watching when the spinning ball issue started. The reported CPU PECI temperature was a full 100C and the fans were not yet spinning at full speed. I left the computer in this state and the fans brought the temps down to about 83C before the machine crashed to a black screen and rebooted itself. This has been the normal MO of this machine since I received it, and it's maddening.

I swapped over to using a DisplayPort cable as a test and the laptop heat issue doesn't disappear like others on this thread have reported. Running the external monitor at 60Hz doesn't really make a difference in heat or stop the crashes that I'm seeing.

I didn't see anyone else with actual crash issues, or are some of you seeing similar instability?

Sounds like a manufacturing defect or some software like iStat menus or Macs Fan Controls interfering with the system control of fans. Try with all launch agents and startup items disabled.

 

[bad_apple]

Sounds like a manufacturing defect or some software like iStat menus or Macs Fan Controls interfering with the system control of fans. Try with all launch agents and startup items disabled.
[/QUOTE]

I'm leaning toward manufacturing defect. I installed Macs Fan Control only after powermetrics showed the machine's CPU getting extremely hot.

 

[zcarsten]

Did you ever read this thread?
apply liquid metal
It could be that the problems are coming from the badly applied thermal paste.
This explains why not all people have the same problem.

 

[Kogut]

just received email notification that my product replacement has been created - a UPS shipping label will be sent to me, I ship my 5500 to apple, and they will then send me the 5600 i9. persistence has paid off. I suggest that if you have had multiple returns or exchanges for this issue, that you press in.

Oh that’s wonderful! Happy for you.
Could you describe every step which led you to the replacement? Did you make a call with apple at first or did you make an appointment? What data did you collect to show to apple?

 

[dooyou]

Oh that’s wonderful! Happy for you.
Could you describe every step which led you to the replacement? Did you make a call with apple at first or did you make an appointment? What data did you collect to show to apple?

What will he have done? A real uprising probably with a lot of trouble and a waste of time, because with please apple, can I get the 5600 for free, you won't get that far. And even if you try the same, you probably won't get the same result.

 

[Kogut]

What will he have done? A real uprising probably with a lot of trouble and a waste of time, because with please apple, can I get the 5600 for free, you won't get that far. And even if you try the same, you probably won't get the same result.

But we need to try! I don't want a laptop which gets extremally hot after 5 minutes. I didn't buy this very precious laptop to be unhappy with it.