(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[spacepawn]

Just to concur with those saying this won't get fixed. I've been in contact with Apple support for weeks, allegedly the reply from the engineering team is that 18w usage when connected to the external display is normal, they say they can't explain why some people can get it down to 5 w - 7 w but 18w is operating as designed.

 

[K3it4r0]

Was literally about to say this worked for me too. Then kernel task kicked in.

I was literally only watching a 4k video on my external monitor in clamshell mode. It did seem to last longer than normal hence why I almost sang the new beta's praises.

I just tested with the latest beta of big sur and, unfortunately, with a MBP 16 with AMD 5300M attached to a LG5k the problem still persist with the lid open. 19-20W on radeon high side and fan high as you can be..

 

[spacepawn]

I'm really angry about this, I've been using this without an external monitor which isn't doing my body any favors, sink more money on a new monitor or eGPU despite having no need for either, or give this thing as a trade-in and move on to Windows/Linux. Has anybody taken that plunge or thought about it?

 

[Grohowiak]

I'm really angry about this, I've been using this without an external monitor which isn't doing my body any favors, sink more money on a new monitor or eGPU despite having no need for either, or give this thing as a trade-in and move on to Windows/Linux. Has anybody taken that plunge or thought about it?

Quite a few people here (including some macrumors staff I think) switched to win machines.
It is different but since I work interchangeably with both for a looooong time now I can honestly say that I do not know which one I like more.
If I go xcode I'm obviously always on a mac but at work I'm 95% windows and in both cases they work great.
Just make sure you get a good win laptop if you are going portable. Windows likes good power.

Also remember that BigSur will rub plenty people in a wrong way because it changes a lot how the OS feels.
I have it since day one beta and still not convinced about it. Feels like iPad OS.

 

[IceStormNG]

Just to concur with those saying this won't get fixed. I've been in contact with Apple support for weeks, allegedly the reply from the engineering team is that 18w usage when connected to the external display is normal, they say they can't explain why some people can get it down to 5 w - 7 w but 18w is operating as designed.

LOL.. They can't explain how people manage to get it working as it should?


I should probably bug Apple until they refund the the machine or let me upgrade to 5600M. If I sell it now, I would lose about 1500€. Not going to do that.
The 16" could've been the perfect machine... But Apple somehow must implement some stupid things on everything they build since some years.

 

[c0ppo]

I'm really angry about this, I've been using this without an external monitor which isn't doing my body any favors, sink more money on a new monitor or eGPU despite having no need for either, or give this thing as a trade-in and move on to Windows/Linux. Has anybody taken that plunge or thought about it?

I've gone on that route. I'm writing this on my Thinkpad X1 Extreme. I'm a developer, and I can get my work done on any OS. But I really dislike windows (personal preference). So I'm using PopOS (Linux), and I'm really happy with it. X1E is really light, screen is great, keyboard is out of this world great! And I get to use almost all the ports I ever need (except LAN). I even get two m.2 ports, and even RAM can be exchanged.

Honestly, I can't see myself switching back to MacOS. Keyboard on MBP 16 is pure garbage when compared to thinkpad, lack of ports, and most annoying thing of all - TOUCH BAR. I hate it. HATE IT.

Now, not everything is nice and shiny of course. Battery life on X1E isn't great. Touchpad is good under Windows (but still not MBP quality), and really lousy under Linux. But considering what I would have to give up for those two, I'm willing to compromise.

 

[spacepawn]

Quite a few people here (including some macrumors staff I think) switched to win machines.
It is different but since I work interchangeably with both for a looooong time now I can honestly say that I do not know which one I like more.
If I go xcode I'm obviously always on a mac but at work I'm 95% windows and in both cases they work great.
Just make sure you get a good win laptop if you are going portable. Windows likes good power.

Also remember that BigSur will rub plenty people in a wrong way because it changes a lot how the OS feels.
I have it since day one beta and still not convinced about it. Feels like iPad OS.

I'm doing it, but leaning towards Desktop. Big Sur doesn't appeal to me either.

 

[king11527]

How many hours did you use your MBP at idle before making those screenshots?

Those are captured without running too long. But the fan speed are stable at base speed most of the time, below is 24 hour logs that the machine is running the first backup overnight. The a few spikes was when I running something heavy. e.g. dropbox sync a new folder. If I turn off turboboost, the fan really never goes off above 3-4k speed.

 

[spacepawn]

LOL.. They can't explain how people manage to get it working as it should?


I should probably bug Apple until they refund the the machine or let me upgrade to 5600M. If I sell it now, I would lose about 1500€. Not going to do that.
The 16" could've been the perfect machine... But Apple somehow must implement some stupid things on everything they build since some years.

That's what's infuriating. They're saying 18w is how it should work and that it's within the operating limits so there is nothing to fix, if someone can get it to 5w - 7w then good for them but they don't see this as a problem.

 

[king11527]

Do you mind trying to run all of your screens with higher resolutions with this app? It's a terrific app that gives you so much extra real estate and extra pixels.

www.madrau.com

It's a cool thing and every Mac user should try it. I use it on all of my computers and it make them warmer when I double native resolutions. So would love to see what your 5600m is capable of.

All my screens running at native resolutions. I played with SwitchResX a bit when I had the now returned i9 5500M, in attempting to reduce the GPU power consumption, and without success. Having the 5k screen runs without highRes looks terrific, but just the font is too small to read.

What do you want to see? GPU power consumption of 5600M at 5K lowRes?

 

[adgoodma]

Sharing more data..
i have the i9 with the 5600. With a 4k and 5k monitor in clamshell here is what I'm getting. This is while running google meets for my online teaching. I have to run it through chrome to get full functionality. I am also running ecamm with an external camera.

The fans are steady full at 5500. They are loud, but not annoying, and the computer doesn't feel too hot.
I assume that google chrome is making the fans go crazy

 

[Minga089]

Those are captured without running too long. But the fan speed are stable at base speed most of the time, below is 24 hour logs that the machine is running the first backup overnight. The a few spikes was when I running something heavy. e.g. dropbox sync a new folder. If I turn off turboboost, the fan really goes off above 3-4k speed.
View attachment 959284

Thx. Fans actually look quit similar with my MBP (i7/5300m) when used lid open with external monitor (2K monitor running in HiDPI resolution). My machine is also quiet the whole day (below 2.000 rpm 90% of the time). Only difference is Radeon High Side (17-18W) and therefore a higher idle temperature (53-60C).

Seems like 5600m option finally turns the MBP 16" into the machine it should've been right from the start but without having to spend 700$ extra.

 

[ght56]

So can it be said definitively that the 5600M eliminates the excessive draw issues with the 5500M and 5300M?

 

[IceStormNG]

So can it be said definitively that the 5600M eliminates the excessive draw issues with the 5500M and 5300M?

Yes and no. The 5600M also runs the VRAM on full clock. But the 5600M uses HBM2 while the 5300M/5500 use GDDR6. The power draw is much lower on the HBM2. Therefore, the same behavior (running VRAM on full clock for "no reason") doesn't result in the same problem.

GDDR6 is quite power hungry. HBM2 is very power efficient.


So, yeah. The 5600M eliminates the issue with unnecessary heating when connecting an external display, simply because its VRAM modules are way more power efficient (and btw also twice as fast).

 

[king11527]

So can it be said definitively that the 5600M eliminates the excessive draw issues with the 5500M and 5300M?

I tried both 5500M and 5600M, and I can confirm the difference. 5500M with internal + LG5k GPU power 18-20W, and 5600M with internal + LG5k power below 10W if no graphic intensive tasks. Below is a log of 5600M power consumption with internal plus LG5k. When computer screen off, GPU consumption is 5W. screen on the base power is 7W, play YouTube or zoom video meeting is 10-12W.

I feel lucky that I found this thread within the two weeks return period of my 5500M configuration. So. far I am happy with 5600M and i7 configuration. Thanks for everyone's posts!

 

[Grohowiak]

I'm doing it, but leaning towards Desktop. Big Sur doesn't appeal to me either.

If you want hassle free just wait for some decent alienware discounts.
They have nicely optimized machines and sometimes you can get $700-1000 off).
I used to build PCs but I like AW because for some reason as I always end up on a better side of the silicon lottery and that is important if you plan to OC.

Anyway. Back to mac lol. Sorry.

I have a feeling a updated 16" will be released shortly and that will be the last intel machine in this form.
On top of that nobody will fix current issues because it works as designed.

 

[spacepawn]

If you want hassle free just wait for some decent alienware discounts.
They have nicely optimized machines and sometimes you can get $700-1000 off).
I used to build PCs but I like AW because for some reason as I always end up on a better side of the silicon lottery and that is important if you plan to OC.

Anyway. Back to mac lol. Sorry.

I have a feeling a updated 16" will be released shortly and that will be the last intel machine in this form.
On top of that nobody will fix current issues because it works as designed.

I'm giving up on laptops entirely, it's always something, at best you have severe thermal issues. Might get a lower powered laptop in the future if I need it.

If they do release a new 16", I wouldn't be surprised if it has the same problem.

 

[petterihiisila]

I'm giving up on laptops entirely, it's always something, at best you have severe thermal issues. Might get a lower powered laptop in the future if I need it.

You'd still be in a ditch. Then you've got a slow and noisy laptop. Or in the case of the passive-cooled 12", a slow and hot laptop. Been there. Mac laptops are not cool and fast at the same time. I doubt PCs are either. That's a thermal constraint.

5300M/5500M gets hot and noisy with external monitors during medium-low stress, which is unexpected at this price range and considering the supposed performance headroom. Hence 156 pages of disappointment and workarounds. Luckily there are workarounds, each with their own trade-offs and all including some 5-20% extra cost.

For a desktop-like experience in a laptop format, 5600M seems like the way to go. Alternatively, a 5300M/5500M with an eGPU for any and all resolutions ... or a DisplayLink adapter, if the supported resolutions are OK. Someone buying a top-of-the-line Mac laptop simply has to factor that in, for now.

 

[spacepawn]

You'd still be in a ditch. Then you've got a slow and noisy laptop. Or in the case of the passive-cooled 12", a slow and hot laptop. Been there. Mac laptops are not cool and fast at the same time. I doubt PCs are either. That's a thermal constraint.

The low powered laptop would be just for light usage on the go, main machine would be the desktop. But for now I'll have just a desktop.

For a desktop-like experience in a laptop format, 5600M seems like the way to go. Alternatively, a 5300M/5500M with an eGPU for any and all resolutions ... or a DisplayLink adapter, if the supported resolutions are OK. Someone buying a top-of-the-line Mac laptop simply has to factor that in, for now.

From what I gather the 5600M also suffers from this problem, only mitigates it by being less power hungry, if they upgrade me to 5600M I'd take it, but they won't.

 

[IceStormNG]

From what I gather the 5600M also suffers from this problem, only mitigates it by being less power hungry, if they upgrade me to 5600M I'd take it, but they won't.

That's right. Almost all AMD GPUs have that problem. They do that because they cannot run smooth with multiple monitors without running the VRAM on full clock.

Someone buying a top-of-the-line Mac laptop simply has to factor that in, for now.

So we have to factor in that we cannot even get something simple as an external Monitor without loud fans or have to shell out even more money? Isnˋt that a bit ridiculous?

 

[Mity]

I've gone on that route. I'm writing this on my Thinkpad X1 Extreme. I'm a developer, and I can get my work done on any OS. But I really dislike windows (personal preference). So I'm using PopOS (Linux), and I'm really happy with it. X1E is really light, screen is great, keyboard is out of this world great! And I get to use almost all the ports I ever need (except LAN). I even get two m.2 ports, and even RAM can be exchanged.

Honestly, I can't see myself switching back to MacOS. Keyboard on MBP 16 is pure garbage when compared to thinkpad, lack of ports, and most annoying thing of all - TOUCH BAR. I hate it. HATE IT.

Now, not everything is nice and shiny of course. Battery life on X1E isn't great. Touchpad is good under Windows (but still not MBP quality), and really lousy under Linux. But considering what I would have to give up for those two, I'm willing to compromise.

I've been thinking about getting either an X1E or P1 Gen 3 and running RHEL. Do you have the GTX 1650 Ti? Are you able to run multiple monitors? How is driver support? How quiet is your machine?

 

[mrmachine79]

1) Is it possible to calm down the dPU to 0W?

Yes. You can get it down to 0W. Run

sudo pmset -a gpuswitch 0

This will completely disable the dgpu. If you plug in a monitor to the tb3 port it will not work at all. But your eGPU will still work to drive external displays.

If you already have apps using the dGPU, they might hold onto it so reboot if it doesn't work immediately.

You might find the the iGPU, while using less power, does struggle with some tasks compared to the dgpu, and under high graphics load may still cause fans to spin up.

If you go to display preferences and drag the dock to the external display in the arrangement tab, that will set the external display as the default display. The GPU that drives the default display is used for all apps when launched. This can reduce load on the iGPU. Without having to individually configure every app to use eGPU.

Alternatively you can keep the internal display as default but set individual high GPU consumers to prefer the eGPU via checkbox on the info window for the app.

For myself, I found that the machine with eGPU and dGPU still enabled (5W) works just as good as with internal display only, and that is amazingly well and quiet. And I don't like having to quit all my apps when I unplug the eGPU. And I don't like how setting an external display as default actually moves all my windows to that display when I plug in.

So I just leave it all on default and allow macos to use the dgpu and use the eGPU purely to avoid 19W power draw and purely to drive the display, while the dgpu still does most of the work to render apps.

If you are at the desk 99% of the time, setting the eGPU as default display and disabling the dgpu will give the best possible thermal and CPU and GPU performance. If that is still not good enough, then you'll have to consider a desktop instead.

 

[thedocbwarren]

ok that's just really cool! How perminent is this?

Yes. You can get it down to 0W. Run

sudo pmset -a gpuswitch 0

This will completely disable the dgpu. If you plug in a monitor to the tb3 port it will not work at all. But your eGPU will still work to drive external displays.

If you already have apps using the dGPU, they might hold onto it so reboot if it doesn't work immediately.

You might find the the iGPU, while using less power, does struggle with some tasks compared to the dgpu, and under high graphics load may still cause fans to spin up.

If you go to display preferences and drag the dock to the external display in the arrangement tab, that will set the external display as the default display. The GPU that drives the default display is used for all apps when launched. This can reduce load on the iGPU. Without having to individually configure every app to use eGPU.

Alternatively you can keep the internal display as default but set individual high GPU consumers to prefer the eGPU via checkbox on the info window for the app.

For myself, I found that the machine with eGPU and dGPU still enabled (5W) works just as good as with internal display only, and that is amazingly well and quiet. And I don't like having to quit all my apps when I unplug the eGPU. And I don't like how setting an external display as default actually moves all my windows to that display when I plug in.

So I just leave it all on default and allow macos to use the dgpu and use the eGPU purely to avoid 19W power draw and purely to drive the display, while the dgpu still does most of the work to render apps.

If you are at the desk 99% of the time, setting the eGPU as default display and disabling the dgpu will give the best possible thermal and CPU and GPU performance. If that is still not good enough, then you'll have to consider a desktop instead.

 

[Appledoesnotlisten]

Yes. You can get it down to 0W. Run

sudo pmset -a gpuswitch 0

This will completely disable the dgpu. If you plug in a monitor to the tb3 port it will not work at all. But your eGPU will still work to drive external displays.

If you already have apps using the dGPU, they might hold onto it so reboot if it doesn't work immediately.

You might find the the iGPU, while using less power, does struggle with some tasks compared to the dgpu, and under high graphics load may still cause fans to spin up.

If you go to display preferences and drag the dock to the external display in the arrangement tab, that will set the external display as the default display. The GPU that drives the default display is used for all apps when launched. This can reduce load on the iGPU. Without having to individually configure every app to use eGPU.

Alternatively you can keep the internal display as default but set individual high GPU consumers to prefer the eGPU via checkbox on the info window for the app.

For myself, I found that the machine with eGPU and dGPU still enabled (5W) works just as good as with internal display only, and that is amazingly well and quiet. And I don't like having to quit all my apps when I unplug the eGPU. And I don't like how setting an external display as default actually moves all my windows to that display when I plug in.

So I just leave it all on default and allow macos to use the dgpu and use the eGPU purely to avoid 19W power draw and purely to drive the display, while the dgpu still does most of the work to render apps.

If you are at the desk 99% of the time, setting the eGPU as default display and disabling the dgpu will give the best possible thermal and CPU and GPU performance. If that is still not good enough, then you'll have to consider a desktop instead.

PHENOMENAL RESULTS!
IT WORKS!

The only little inconvenience is that it would not complete rebooting without disconnecting eGPU, it stops 5 seconds after I type in my password. Is there a way to fix this little thing?

 

[ght56]

Yes and no. The 5600M also runs the VRAM on full clock. But the 5600M uses HBM2 while the 5300M/5500 use GDDR6. The power draw is much lower on the HBM2. Therefore, the same behavior (running VRAM on full clock for "no reason") doesn't result in the same problem.

GDDR6 is quite power hungry. HBM2 is very power efficient.


So, yeah. The 5600M eliminates the issue with unnecessary heating when connecting an external display, simply because its VRAM modules are way more power efficient (and btw also twice as fast).

I tried both 5500M and 5600M, and I can confirm the difference. 5500M with internal + LG5k GPU power 18-20W, and 5600M with internal + LG5k power below 10W if no graphic intensive tasks. Below is a log of 5600M power consumption with internal plus LG5k. When computer screen off, GPU consumption is 5W. screen on the base power is 7W, play YouTube or zoom video meeting is 10-12W.

View attachment 959455

I feel lucky that I found this thread within the two weeks return period of my 5500M configuration. So. far I am happy with 5600M and i7 configuration. Thanks for everyone's posts!

I appreciate this. I am only a few days out of my return window. At this point I am going to try to see if Apple might still allow me to return my 5500M model in order to purchase a 5600M model.

If not then I think I'll try to find an inexpensive eGPU.