(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[chengengaun]

Hello people, I hope that somebody can help me with this problem, my MBP is 16 2019 2.4 8core i9.
I bought a MI 34 inch (144hz, 3440 x 1440) monitor, when I connect it to MBP fans run louder and after 10 to 20 minutes my cpu runs insanely high, so the kernel task is running from 1000 to 1500 percent of my cpu (I can't barely move a mouse). When I pull out dp or hdmi cable everything cools down.
I have a problem when I connect it to a almost every second monitor. Tried everything from changing ports left and right (charger and monitor cable) I tried without my dock station, still the same problem...

Could anyone give me good advice, what should I do in 2022 and I cant use an external monitor with an expensive maschine ?

I used to own a 2019 16” i9/5500M with the same issue. It’s been a while since I looked for solutions, but I recall coming across the following:

1. Use Lower Power Mode: Mixed reports of success. It kind of worked for me (somewhat cooler, but still runs very warm) when I used Monterey beta - then I apparently suffered from VRM throttling (see below).
2. Tweak the resolution/refresh rate with SwitchResX
3. Use the Mac with the lid closed and force HiDPI option
4. Use eGPU
5. Modding VRM: The combined peak power consumption of CPU+GPU may exceed what the Voltage Regulator Modules can supply, causing the VRM to deteriorate over time. The mod reduces the temperature of the VRM at the considerable risk of burning your lap (literally).
6. Disable the CPU Turbo Boost
7. Clean the fans and/or re-apply thermal paste

Kernel Task is basically how macOS throttles the CPU when the temperature is too high.

From the discussion I understand that the flaws might be inherent in the hardware design of the MBP with 5300M/5500M. The 5600M with HBM2 memory does not suffer from this problem. There was also some discussion about the driver being flawed, with requests for driver updates in the AMD forum. However, now that Apple is transitioning to Apple Silicon, the chance of a driver update is as good as Apple going back to Intel/AMD.

May be easier to just sell and buy the 2021 16" M1 Pro

Ordinarily I would consider such statements trolling (like many of you, probably) but this is the only realistic option for many of us. I need to work, don’t have the time to tweak the display settings, and don’t know how to write a graphics driver for the Mac. I don’t want to mod the Mac and kill it (or myself). In the meantime, the Mac was stuttering and becoming unusable. I have to spend an extra five minutes at the end of every day to cool the Mac enough to pack in my bag. I approached Apple Support and the advisor asked me to uninstall Outlook and JetBrains apps, which I consider untenable (to put it lightly).

Then the AS MBPs 14/16 came along. After some frantic research on compatibility, I bit the bullet and bought one. Haven’t looked back since - though I wondered if I should have just bought a Mac Pro given the amount I spent on the two MBPs.

 

[elbert]

Ordinarily I would consider such statements trolling (like many of you, probably) but this is the only realistic option for many of us. I need to work, don’t have the time to tweak the display settings, and don’t know how to write a graphics driver for the Mac. I don’t want to mod the Mac and kill it (or myself). In the meantime, the Mac was stuttering and becoming unusable. I have to spend an extra five minutes at the end of every day to cool the Mac enough to pack in my bag. I approached Apple Support and the advisor asked me to uninstall Outlook and JetBrains apps, which I consider untenable (to put it lightly).

Then the AS MBPs 14/16 came along. After some frantic research on compatibility, I bit the bullet and bought one. Haven’t looked back since - though I wondered if I should have just bought a Mac Pro given the amount I spent on the two MBPs.

My reply is a TL;DR of what I have to say below.

I do not make my statement lightly. Since getting my 2019 MBP 16" I've read the thermal issues it was experiencing and the the sheer variety of solutions to get it solved. This is contrary to what YouTube reviewers stating that Apple improved on the thermal design.

Tip: YouTubers "reviewers" are just marketers who get a commission by clicking a link.

Some users got so desperate to even crack open their laptops and reapplied thermal grease on it with mixed results.

It's a flaw rooted from an Intel chip and a thermal system that tried its best to cool it in such a small case volume.

I regret making this purchase thinking this new body would be kept for the next decade. I was upgrading from a 2011 MBP that I would have kept if I knew that the 2021 MBP 16" M1 Pro was another 2 year wait.

I did what I suggested and I waited for the sale of the $2,499 base model to $2,199 + loyalty points. I'd push through with the preorder if I could easily liquidate my 2019 but that proved difficult due to pandemic.

My use case is different from yours and I do not experience the thermals as badly. I am scheduling to replace this to as early as Dec 2027 or as late as Dec 2029 to a laptop with a sub-1nm chip.

 

[chengengaun]

My reply is a TL;DR of what I have to say below.

I do not make my statement lightly. Since getting my 2019 MBP 16" I've read the thermal issues it was experiencing and the the sheer variety of solutions to get it solved. This is contrary to what YouTube reviewers stating that Apple improved on the thermal design.

Tip: YouTubers "reviewers" are just marketers who get a commission by clicking a link.

I have to admit I was lulled into thinking Apple solved the problem by improving cooling capacity, which led me to the 16". For a while it felt so much better than the 2016 15" which the 16" replaced, all was well. It was only towards the middle of the year (when the world was in lockdown) that the problem became apparent to me.

I felt compelled to add my account as many people regard statement like yours as trolling and dismissed it, yet I'm afraid it is one of the few realistic options available (if there is more than one option).

My use case is different from yours and I do not experience the thermals as badly. I am scheduling to replace this to as early as Dec 2027 or as late as Dec 2029 to a laptop with a sub-1nm chip.

I guess I should not push it so hard, but for a top-specced machine it better perform. I used it to crunch data and it frequently spent 4-5 hours a day at 100% CPU with 64GB of RAM fully utilised. It was my only local machine powerful enough for the job without having to remote to workstations/clusters.

 

[elbert]

I have to admit I was lulled into thinking Apple solved the problem by improving cooling capacity, which led me to the 16". For a while it felt so much better than the 2016 15" which the 16" replaced, all was well. It was only towards the middle of the year (when the world was in lockdown) that the problem became apparent to me.

I felt compelled to add my account as many people regard statement like yours as trolling and dismissed it, yet I'm afraid it is one of the few realistic options available (if there is more than one option).


I guess I should not push it so hard, but for a top-specced machine it better perform. I used it to crunch data and it frequently spent 4-5 hours a day at 100% CPU with 64GB of RAM fully utilised. It was my only local machine powerful enough for the job without having to remote to workstations/clusters.

As a precautionary measure I did not buy the i9 base model as the thermal solution it needs would be more substantial.

If I need more storage I can always get an external USB3 SATA SSD at less than $100/TB.

My use case hardly increased from 2015's 50MP RAW files.

If I was smart my use case would not increased from 2008's 21MP RAW files.

Going back to why just replace it outright... some times the product isn't a good fit for you but for others it is.

I've read people insisting on upgrading parts for one to two decade old Macs. At a certain point its throwing money after bad. Money spent for spare parts would have been the basis for a deposit for a Mac with Apple silicon.

If you can afford it just replace.

With your workload a replacement cycle of ~4 years is a good fit. For me I'd wait until security updates ends after 10 years before replacing any Mac or Windows machine when the use case hardly changes.

From my perspective it would be jumping from 32nm & 22nm chips to 5nm on its 10th year.

 

[axu2]

Hey, I just upgraded to Monterey and it fixed my issues for me.

In Big Sur, GPU wattage was 18W at idle.

In Monterey, it's now 14W.

With Low Power Mode enabled, it's 5W.

HOWEVER, for some reason, it was saying 14W with LPM enabled after I messed with the settings.

So I disabled LPM, restarted the Mac, and re-enabled LPW and it's been at 5W ever since.

So if LPM isn't working, disable, restart, and try again!

 

[silllli]

I can’t believe what I’m seeing: I just upgraded to macOS 12.3, turned off low power mode, and the GPU wattage stays low! This is incredible. Can anybody else confirm this?

 

[GumaRodak]

That would be great

 

[arkzrlo]

I can’t believe what I’m seeing: I just upgraded to macOS 12.3, turned off low power mode, and the GPU wattage stays low! This is incredible. Can anybody else confirm this?

There is definitely a change in 12.3. I was driving 2 4k displays with the MacBook in clamshell mode and I was getting around 7W of usage using SwitchResX and LPM disabled. After I saw your post I opened the laptop and the power use of the Radeon did not increase substantially (8-9w) driving the 2 4K monitors along the computer screen and LPM disabled. I was never capable of doing this before. Activating or deactivating LPM it seems it does not affect the energy use of the Radeon. It's always around 8w idle. Is anybody else able to confirm this? This looks promising.

 

[JosepPont]

Lg 21:9 34" monitor via Displayport (direct cable).Generic 15,6" FHD monitor via HDMI (trough adapter Hub).

Before Monterey 2.3 with LPM On 7-8 W ( LPM Off 15W)

Now, LPM Off, 6-7 W.

Seems to work perfect. We can be happy with our laptops again ?

 

[axu2]

Just in time after everyone already replaced their laptops with an M1!

 

[ninjastyle]

Just in time after everyone already replaced their laptops with an M1!

This is so fishy. I have never really felt Apple would do this by purpose, even though many others have said so in the past, but it really feels like that's the case here. They were not able to do any reasonable fix for 2+ years but they could ~6 months after releasing its replacement.

I have a 2020 Intel Macbook Pro (didn't sell it, keeping it as a solid backup should my new machine have some kind of hardware problem) and it was fans on constantly, with or without external screens. I bought the M1 and it's totally quiet and cold no matter what I throw at it, so while this indeed is good news for the people that did not upgrade yet, there's much more difference than just the watt usage for external displays.

 

[Kogut]

Made my day, I am upgrading to 12.3

 

[kelvincht]

I just upgraded to 12.3

Initial impression, with LPM on or off, the temperature seems to be cooler. Need some long term test to verify

 

[ianintheuk]

I can confirm the problem is fixed. Monterey had already knocked the power draw down by about 3-4w which was enough to stop the constant fan noise when nothing was running but as of today my power draw is down around the 5w range. This means I have my screen plugged in, I'm running apps and my fans are at the minimum possible: silent running!

Only took 2.5 years for them to fix the issue, guess we should be thanking them, right?

Don't know if it's a coincidence but Blender just got updated with Metal support which Apple was heavily involved in. I did a render on my 5500m and it was 1/3rd the time of doing it on the CPU. Given that the update requires Monterey 12.3 for the Intel/AMD machines I wonder if Apple have done a review of the GFX drivers at the same time and fixed the bug...?

All's well that ends well I guess, can't believe how quiet my computer is now, slightly less jealous of all the M1 users!

 

[Minga_]

Can confirm: The issue seems finally fixed. Radeon High Side Lid open + external 27" 4K monitor: <10W

Finally! My Intel 16" has never felt snappier (open lid + external monitor) and it seems like I will keep this badboy for a few more years. The disabled CPU turbo boost of LPM was quite noticeable imo and I am glad that I can finally use this machine as it is intended to.

So as suspected: It was always a driver issue for which Apple was responsible for. Not Intel, not AMD. They easily could've fixed it while there were no Apple Silicon Macs but they didn't (toatally on purpose if you ask me). Instead they always claimed that the machines worked "as designed" and there was nothing wrong with the Intel 16" MBP.

 

[Maples]

I'm not sure if it's actually been fixed. The temperatures when connected to my LG 34GP950 are still around 65-75 degrees for both CPU and GPU with the lid open after 15-20 minutes. I can't check the wattage but it does seem like how it was before.

However, maybe it's just doing random stuff after the update and I do hope it's fixed!

 

[silllli]

I'm not sure if it's actually been fixed. The temperatures when connected to my LG 34GP950 are still around 65-75 degrees for both CPU and GPU with the lid open after 15-20 minutes. I can't check the wattage but it does seem like how it was before.

However, maybe it's just doing random stuff after the update and I do hope it's fixed!

When you look at the wattage of the GPU (e. g. by using an app that shows you this data) it has been fixed, at least for me and the others that have reported the same. By now I have also plugged and unplugged my external display several times and rebooted—the wattage stays low.

What you experience may be the mds_stores process (which is doing tasks related to spotlight) heating up the machine. It was using a lot of CPU resources after the upgrade for me (as usual), due to necessary re-indexing.

Another reason for your heat problem might be dirt in your machine. If you have used your MacBook for some time with fans constantly running at high speeds, chances are that more dust than usual was accumulated. Cleaning the inside has helped some users before, including me.

 

[Maples]

When you look at the wattage of the GPU (e. g. by using an app that shows you this data) it has been fixed, at least for me and the others that have reported the same. By now I have also plugged and unplugged my external display several times and rebooted—the wattage stays low.

What you experience may be the mds_stores process (which is doing tasks related to spotlight) heating up the machine. It was using a lot of CPU resources after the upgrade for me (as usual), due to necessary re-indexing.

Another reason for your heat problem might be dirt in your machine. If you have used your MacBook for some time with fans constantly running at high speeds, chances are that more dust than usual was accumulated. Cleaning the inside has helped some users before, including me.

I'm currently testing things out with 60Hz vs 100Hz, and I think it was caused due to 100Hz. Right now I'm hovering between 60-65 degrees, and it does go lower sometimes. If the wattages are a lot lower, then I would assume it's actually been fixed. I'm just going to have to wait a while for things so settle.

As for the dust, I've been barely using the MBP due to this issue, lol.

 

[silllli]

By the way, I’m using this app to view the GPU wattage, which is open source and free of charge: https://github.com/exelban/stats

 

[Maples]

By the way, I’m using this app to view the GPU wattage, which is open source and free of charge: https://github.com/exelban/stats

Thanks!

Using the app, it was definitely the 100Hz setting that was using up more wattage. I was getting 19-20W when watching a YouTube video on the UW monitor. Now, with 60Hz, it's dropped down to 9-12W when watching a video and 5-7W without a video.

Overall, I think it's definitely been fixed.

 

[JosepPont]

This fixed error is a very candidate to be in a Macrumors frontpage post

I'm very very happy right now. I can run Windows on Parallels on a secondary screen without get a burned laptop. No M1, no feeling of money droped to the trashcan because of people saying the only way is M1, no programs limitations and virtualize limitations of M1.

Of course I'll be in this 2.3 version forever if in the next updates the problem comes back haha

 

[flowsy]

Not seeing it on 12.3. At least not while running Chrome... or Twitch in Safari only. 19-20W with external 1080p display over USB-C/HDMI.

Edit: Watched it for some time. Constantly jumps between 11W and 19W (via iStat). Hmmm...

 

[silllli]

Not seeing it on 12.3. At least not while running Chrome... or Twitch in Safari only. 19-20W with external 1080p display over USB-C/HDMI.

Edit: Watched it for some time. Constantly jumps between 11W and 19W (via iStat). Hmmm...

I think this is normal behavior. Of course wattage goes up when the GPU is working. What was missing before is the jumping between values—the GPU always drew the maximum, no matter the workload.

 

[flowsy]

You guys are right. Watching a 4K video in Chrome on my external display only draws 6-10 Watts. The underside of this thing (on a Griffin stand) is barely lukewarm. I hope it'll stay that way.

 

[davidbend]

Wow!
Apple finally fixed it!