Interesting. Anyone think the better results are due to having the 5300 instead of the 5500?
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(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(
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Interesting. Anyone think the better results are due to having the 5300 instead of the 5500?
You and I have the exact same spec'd machine. I agree with you 100%. And I don't think you should be "putting up with it" either. Via SwitchResX, adding a custom resolution at 60hz (in my case) definitely helped, but it didn't completely fix it. In Photoshop, I still get fans ramping up and down as I perform BASIC PS tasks such as dodging and burning. Using Turbo Boost Swticher Pro to turn off Intel's Turbo Boost "solves" this issue for me, but that isn't a real solution..because..of course, we PAID for Turbo Boost performance. I will be on the phone with Apple tomorrow raising bloody hell for a store credit.
Please report back what Apple says. Still within my return window and am considering "downgrading" to a machine with the 5300M since another poster said they had better results after the latest update.
If it costs nothing to try (e.g. you can also return the lower spec machine), then give it a shot. But I believe it will make very little or no difference, and any reports of fan noise (or the absence of) without evidence (screenshots during repeatable tests) are subjective and anecdotal. In 1700+ messages, I think not one person has shown a 16" MBP to use less than ~20W with the lid open.
I have an i9 2.4GHz and 5300M, which I chose specifically for the lowest thermal output for a given workload. The CPU is a better binned chip than the 2.3GHz, so should produce less heat for a given load. The i7 has 2 less cores, but may be a lower quality chip so I'm not sure if it's cooler for a given load.
But I think the CPU is irrelevant. The CPU is not generating the excessive heat or using excessive power. The CPU is being crippled by the dGPU using too much power (the two share a dynamic pool of thermal headroom and available power), and the fans are a result of heat generated by the dGPUs excessive power consumption.
From what I've seen and heard, the 5300M has the same excessive power consumption as the 5500M.
That all said, I don't have much personal experience with the heat and noise issue on this machine because I use it with an eGPU which allows the CPU to run at maximum performance under high load, and cool/quiet under medium load, as the dGPU is barely used for anything at all and consumes 0-5W.
I only ran it a few times without the eGPU to test. See this post for more test results and eGPU info: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...r.2211747/page-66?post=28505779#post-28505779
It would still be a concern if the CPU runs at much lower speed. The main problem/impact of the Dgpu drawing 18+ Watts is that it reduces capacity for the CPU to maintain turbo boost. Most people will see that their machines can’t maintain speeds above base clock very long when both Cpu and dgpu are taxed.
So I am curious, how does your CPU frequency hold up under medium load while dgpu draws 18 watts and fans are Low? If it stays at 3Ghz+ for longer than 10-15 min at acceptable fan rates (3k or less) I will be impressed.
and to confirm: you are connected to monitor and in which mode? Clamshell or open lid?
So I am curious, how does your CPU frequency hold up under medium load while dgpu draws 18 watts and fans are Low? If it stays at 3Ghz+ for longer than 10-15 min at acceptable fan rates (3k or less) I will be impressed.
and to confirm: you are connected to monitor and in which mode? Clamshell or open lid?
Did Apple change something just now? I got an alert for a supplemental update, 10.15.5 or something. Said it was for security and recommended for all users. Sorry wish I took a screenshot of it. But now with the monitor plugged in, my CPU highside went from 18W to 6W or lower. (Radeon still high though) Idle my temps are reading around 50C. Which they where 60C+ before update. I can still hit the low 60C mark pretty easy with Sketch, Notion, Outlook, Teams, Slack and a few Chrome tabs open to do it. Wishful thinking perhaps, but I'll keep an eye on it tomorrow through a full day of work. Thoughts? Anyone else do an update recently?
Would be interested to know how the cpu speed differs between these two - I wonder if they’re making the cpu run slower to keep the heat in check with the external connected, because the Radeon issue simply can not be fixed?
Supplemental update is documented here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211215
macOS Catalina 10.15.5 Supplemental Update, Security Update 2020-003 High Sierra
Released June 1, 2020
Kernel
Available for: macOS High Sierra 10.13.6, macOS Catalina 10.15.5
Impact: An application may be able to execute arbitrary code with kernel privileges
Description: A memory consumption issue was addressed with improved memory handling.
CVE-2020-9859: unc0ver
I had to go to Apple Logo->About this mac->Software updates to get it to show up. I'll install it, but I can't test the sleep issues today. Too much work to do.
It would be weird for them to slip in an undocumented fix for such a big issue, so I'm not hopeful.
update: this is a much bigger update than I was expecting. It says 18 minutes to install and the screen has blanked and reset twice already.
update: damn, this is a seriously beefy update. I would not have done this right now if I knew. Screen reset/reboot two more times so far for four total.
last update: Nope. Radeon still running at ~20W with absolutely nothing going on. Unplugging the DisplayPort again. Back to laptop mode.
macOS Catalina 10.15.5 Supplemental Update, Security Update 2020-003 High Sierra
Released June 1, 2020
Kernel
Available for: macOS High Sierra 10.13.6, macOS Catalina 10.15.5
Impact: An application may be able to execute arbitrary code with kernel privileges
Description: A memory consumption issue was addressed with improved memory handling.
CVE-2020-9859: unc0ver
I had to go to Apple Logo->About this mac->Software updates to get it to show up. I'll install it, but I can't test the sleep issues today. Too much work to do.
It would be weird for them to slip in an undocumented fix for such a big issue, so I'm not hopeful.
update: this is a much bigger update than I was expecting. It says 18 minutes to install and the screen has blanked and reset twice already.
update: damn, this is a seriously beefy update. I would not have done this right now if I knew. Screen reset/reboot two more times so far for four total.
last update: Nope. Radeon still running at ~20W with absolutely nothing going on. Unplugging the DisplayPort again. Back to laptop mode.
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Yeah it was larger than I expected as well and took a bit to finish. Curious to see what everyone's experience with it is in the coming days.
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Hope that's not the answer. Anyone have Intel Power Gadget or something else installed that can weigh in? I'll check as well.
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That what you have? Base specs or bump up RAM? Any insights on performance (outside the heat issues) between the two?
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I’ll be contacting Apple today also (in the UK). We can compare responses ?. I’m glad I have AppleCare as I’m 6 months in with mine so long past the return window.
Actually wondering if switching to the recently released 13 inch MacBook Pro May be a better (quieter!) option for me given my relatively basic workflow / usage. No graphic, video editing or gaming required so I don’t need the 5500 graphics card that seems to be causing this issue on my 16 inch based on other things I’ve read in this read. Perhaps a 13 inch with standard graphics would be good enough for me. If Apple offered me a swap (with some refund given the difference in price) I’d take that right now. I doubt they will though.
This video convinced me that, for my usage, the 2020 13.3" should be just fine with an external display,
Does anyone have a 2020 10th gen 13" Macbook Pro and and 16" Macbook Pro? Would they agree with the findings in that video when it's connected to an external display?
The only thing about that video is he put them under a somewhat unrealistically intensive scenario running FCP, Xcode and Chrome running Youtube tabs simultaneously whilst connected to an external display. I doubt many of us would ever do that at the same time in real world use.
The only thing about that video is he put them under a somewhat unrealistically intensive scenario running FCP, Xcode and Chrome running Youtube tabs simultaneously whilst connected to an external display. I doubt many of us would ever do that at the same time in real world use.
Great link. No nonsense comparison. Glad I went for the 16" over the 13". There's also this more detailed review of the 13":
My 16" has been boxed up for 3 months. Really need to get it commissioned. Doesn't seem like there's been any progress since I was last here.
I've ordered a Razer X Chroma, will pick up a 5500xt too. Seems insane to have to do this but I guess the fact it will work as a dock too softens the blow (a bit).
I've ordered a Razer X Chroma, will pick up a 5500xt too. Seems insane to have to do this but I guess the fact it will work as a dock too softens the blow (a bit).
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Yess.
This is not about the fan ramp and noise, annoying but required for high performance this days. This is about CPU thermal throttle and lack of performance. Your'e paying for a top i9 CPU and just getting top performance during short time.
Synthetic tests are misleading because they stress the system just a few minutes, but if you're in 4K editing or gaming the performance ramp gradually descends with high loads.
Regards.
For me it's about just about being able to use the machine. Locking up and having a complete thermal crash just because I plugged in an external monitor is not usable to me. I bought this machine with the expectation that it could serve very similarly to a workstation - clamshell mode connected to a hub with all peripherals. I can't reboot every time it goes to sleep and I can't work with the fans at 5000rpm when I'm editing a word document.
Just to confirm. Were you on 10.15.5 and then it added another update? When you look at "About my mac" does it just show 10.15.5 or another distinction. I've been on 10.15.5 since it came out but haven't been able to trigger any other kind of update this morning.
Are you still seeing the CPU Computing Highside at lower levels?
I'm on 10.15.5 now and thought that was what I had before the update too. Update just said supplemental update. Sorry, should've paid more attention to it. CPU highside sitting around 7w after update, much higher before. GPU is still 18W. Temps this morning still sitting around 60C / 146F with light use (browser, messaging).
I could probably test this week, since I bought a 13inch 10th gen for my Wife, I own the 16inch i9 with the 5500m heat machine.
I went from 16" (i7, 5300m) to 13" (10th gen i5). If you don't need the graphics power or the bigger display it might be what you are looking for. The device is totally silent while it's open and a display connected. I only hear the fans when I really push it, and then only for a much shorter time compared to the 16".
Spoke with Apple Support. Once you're past the 14 day return window...they will ONLY address issues via hardware repair. No refunds. No store credit. Nada. After submitting logs and detailed(!) notes, my machine was said to be working as expected. Insane.
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What do you and others think of adding an eGPU to a 10th Gen i5 or i7 13" mbp?
I was able to get it to update to supplemental. Just confirming you're seeing those numbers with lid open and using an external display? I think you and I have similarly spec'd machines i9/5500. Like you been debating going for an i7/5300. Do you use Turbo Boost Switcher? When I rebooted it didn't turn on automatically. My CPU highside was around 18W. If I enable TB Switcher to turn TB off, it's now dropped to high single digits. Do you know if your pre Supplemental update reading was w Turbo Boost on or off?