(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

[limo79]

Sign In to AMD Community - AMD Community

community.amd.com

 

[hcoverlambda]

Sign In to AMD Community - AMD Community

community.amd.com

I experience the exact same issues with 1 external display in clamshell. Its not as pronounced as with 2 displays but it's still there. So I have to think its more that just a multi display issue.

 

[jaduffy007]

I spent a wonderful two and a half hours on the phone with Apple support yesterday. The rep advised me to take it in to the store so they could physically "remove the driver hardware and put in a new one". I explained to her that a driver is software written for the kernel to communicate with the hardware device and that there was nothing physical to fix. Sweet jeebus.

She asked me to run diagnostic on boot (hold D) and of course that didn't reveal any problem. She said it was because I was using third party hardware and they couldn't support that. (??) Then she wanted me to run in recovery mode (cmd+R) because she wanted to check the disks (???). Recovery mode wanted to change my AppleID password. Hell no. At that point I said I was done and ended the call.

I'm going to exchange this for the new 13" that people have reported doesn't have these issues. I'm done.

Wise move.

 

[K3it4r0]

I was wondering, for the ones who are using egpu, are the fans of the gpu and the enclosures not a bother? I would not like to find myself switching from a problem with the MBP fans to another with an external and bulky box

 

[mrmachine79]

I was wondering, for the ones who are using egpu, are the fans of the gpu and the enclosures not a bother? I would not like to find myself switching from a problem with the MBP fans to another with an external and bulky box

Not for me. Stock fans on razer core X chroma were just a little louder than issue fans in MBP (30dB at 2 feet, where my ears are normally). But I replaced them with noctua fans that are even quieter. Still audible, but barely. No permanent modification required. Just be careful when unplugging the internal power supply fan as it can still hold charge while unplugged. Route the new fan cable out of the PSU with three other cables and connect to the same motherboard fan header as the case fan with a y cable splitter. I used this one:

NA-SYC1 chromax.black

The NA-SYC1 chromax.black is a fan accessory set consisting of three NA-YC1 y-cables that make it possible to run two 4-pin PWM fans on a single fan header and to let the motherboard control the speed of both fans simultaneously. Multiple NA-YC1s can be daisy-chained to control more than two PWM...

noctua.at

And these fans:

- https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a12x25-flx
- https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a8-flx

 

[jaduffy007]

Not for me. Stock fans on razer core X chroma were just a little louder than issue fans in MBP (30dB at 2 feet, where my ears are normally). But I replaced them with noctua fans that are even quieter. Still audible, but barely. No permanent modification required. Just be careful when unplugging the internal power supply fan as it can still hold charge while unplugged. Route the new fan cable out of the PSU with three other cables and connect to the same motherboard fan header as the case fan with a y cable splitter. I used this one:

NA-SYC1 chromax.black

The NA-SYC1 chromax.black is a fan accessory set consisting of three NA-YC1 y-cables that make it possible to run two 4-pin PWM fans on a single fan header and to let the motherboard control the speed of both fans simultaneously. Multiple NA-YC1s can be daisy-chained to control more than two PWM...

noctua.at

And these fans:

- https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a12x25-flx
- https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a8-flx

Would you mind guessing how the noise of the stock fans of the chroma compare to what rpm level in the 16" MBP? For example, the Chroma fans sound like the MBP at 2000rpm? 3000rpm? Etc. I'm hoping it's 3500rpm or less.
Thanks!

 

[mrmachine79]

I'm receiving my 5700XT / Chroma on Wednesday. Would you mind guessing how the noise of the stock fans of the chroma compare to what rpm level in the 16" MBP? For example, the Chroma fans sound like the MBP at 2000rpm? Etc.
Thanks!

At a guess, around 2900 rpm for the stock fans and 2400 rpm for the noctua fans. But in both cases the chroma is a lower pitched/speed airflow noise vs the higher pitched/speed noise of the MBP fans. And you can always get a longer TB3 cable and put the chroma under the desk. But I bet the 5700 XT is louder than the 5500 XT I have when it's fans are spinning.

Install this app:

Decibel X: Pro dBA Noise Meter

"Decibel X" is one of very few noise meter apps on the market that has highly reliable, pre-calibrated measurements and supports dBA, dBC. It turns your iOS device into a professional sound level meter, precisely measures the sound pressure level (SPL) all around you. This extremely useful and...

skypaw.com

And sit how you normally use the MBP and put the phone near your ear and adjust the MBP fan speed until it's alternating between 29-30dB. From memory that's what I got with the chroma stock fans with the chroma about 2 feet maybe 2.5 feet from my ear. And I had the chroma PSU fan pointing towards me.

 

[lukelol]

Update on my CoreX Chroma eGPU enclosure...
https://www.reddit.com/r/eGPU/comments/gyela6
I am also having issues with ethernet. Can't connect to the router via ethernet, but the MBP works in bridge mode for sharing internet connection with an Xbox. Would have gone with the standard enclosure instead of the Chroma had I known. I've yet to contact Razer.

@K3it4r0

are the fans of the gpu and the enclosures not a bother?

The fans on the GPU / Enclosure are much larger and seem to run at a much lower RPM, not producing the high-pitched noise that comes from the MBP.

 

[ra'aknys]

Following up on my tests at 2560x1440 resolution in clamshell mode (previous post is https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/post-28531358 ), it turns out that only 60Hz causes the GPU to stay at 19W.

I've tried 100, 120 and 144Hz and those all use only 7W on GPU.

It's really strange that the most common frequency is the one that causes issues...

 

[Syther101]

Following up on my tests at 2560x1440 resolution in clamshell mode (previous post is https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/post-28531358 ), it turns out that only 60Hz causes the GPU to stay at 19W.

I've tried 100, 120 and 144Hz and those all use only 7W on GPU.

It's really strange that the most common frequency is the one that causes issues...

Interesting, I have wondered this. Thanks for testing!

My Asus monitor goes up to 144 Hz. But I can't select 60. Only 59.88. Is this over display port your tests?

 

[limo79]

I experience the exact same issues with 1 external display in clamshell. Its not as pronounced as with 2 displays but it's still there. So I have to think its more that just a multi display issue.

According to AMD forum increased high clock vmem frequency when connecting external monitor(s) IS NOT considered as a bug. Apple may try to report this issue to AMD but chance is almost 0 if this is a FAD. Like in case of butterfly keyboard case this problem may be addressed in future MacBook Pro release but according what I found all AMD chips have this problem (after NVIDIA BGA bump gate relations between Apple and NVIDIA are not so good I believe and I am not sure if they have HBM to save space on PCB).

 

[Syther101]

also this thread is now in the top 6 most replies on macrumors if you ignore all the "Waiting for 20xx MBP" threads over the years

Please Apple!

 

[HarryPot]

also this thread is now in the top 6 most replies on macrumors if you ignore all the "Waiting for 20xx MBP" threads over the years

Please Apple!

How can you check those threads?

 

[jaduffy007]

At a guess, around 2900 rpm for the stock fans and 2400 rpm for the noctua fans. But in both cases the chroma is a lower pitched/speed airflow noise vs the higher pitched/speed noise of the MBP fans. And you can always get a longer TB3 cable and put the chroma under the desk. But I bet the 5700 XT is louder than the 5500 XT I have when it's fans are spinning.

Install this app:

Decibel X: Pro dBA Noise Meter

"Decibel X" is one of very few noise meter apps on the market that has highly reliable, pre-calibrated measurements and supports dBA, dBC. It turns your iOS device into a professional sound level meter, precisely measures the sound pressure level (SPL) all around you. This extremely useful and...

skypaw.com

And sit how you normally use the MBP and put the phone near your ear and adjust the MBP fan speed until it's alternating between 29-30dB. From memory that's what I got with the chroma stock fans with the chroma about 2 feet maybe 2.5 feet from my ear. And I had the chroma PSU fan pointing towards me.

Thanks! I think I'll point the fans toward my bass absorption panels

 

[PeterJP]

I'm going to exchange this for the new 13" that people have reported doesn't have these issues. I'm done.

My experience with my local Apple support (Belgium) is much better, fortunately. But this issue + the PowerPlay failed to resume issue (stops me from using sleep for any period of time) stop me from absolutely loving this machine. The 16" is completely brilliant otherwise. Support keeps insisting it's a software issue and it should be fixed somewhere in the future. I hope it gets fixed. I was considering the new 13", but the 2 week return period for this refurb expired before I started getting the sleep problems, so I'm "stuck" with this imperfect piece of heaven

 

[jaduffy007]

Thanks for the ad

If you can't return for a refund, keep complaining and demonstrating that the machine is unusable and unfit for purchase.

Point out that the advertising says it can run internal display plus 4 external 4k displays.

Prove with screen recordings (stuttering performance) or videos recorded with your phone (fan noise) and crash logs, unexpected shutdown logs, and Apple Capture Data images that the problem occurs under "normal use" conditions (the apps you need).

Install a fresh copy of the OS with just those apps to generate this data.

Go through with any offers they make to repair the issue (e.g. logic board replacement) and then come back with more evidence that the problem still exists.

If they claim it will be fixed with a software update, ask for an ETA or notify them that you will wait 4 weeks (a "reasonable" period).

When no update arrives, and when they still refuse and you can't escalate any further through the regular support channels, escalate by email to tcook@apple.com and complain about the terrible service. An executive liason will call you to take over the case and review all past interactions.

Point out that the problem is still not resolved even after repairs, that the machine is not fit for your purpose, and that the regular support channels have hit the end of line and Apple has refused to offer any further remedy.

Give them a few options to choose from that would resolve the issue for you. A free Blackmagic eGPU from their store, a full refund (so you can purchase a different model of machine), some kind of exchange (for a different model of machine).

Apple will never admit that there is an un-fixable hardware design fault affecting all 16" MBPs, rather than a manufacturing defect affecting one MBP.

The best you'll get is a full replacement machine after several failed repairs and a long, gruelling and frustrating sub-par support experience that resulted in you being told you are SOL at the end.

If you're lucky, a new model will be out by then and the new model may not have the same problem, or may not have it as severely, or may be better in other ways to compensate.

And then after all that, get an eGPU to work around the problem as best you can with the hardware you're stuck with.

It requires a lot of effort and persistence, and probably not worth it. Even if you could return it, if you need a portable Mac, the 16" MBP is still the best portable hardware Apple has available, and running it with an eGPU is as good as it's going to get (even for non-GPU intensive workloads).

The 13" is still hot and noisy with way worse graphics, half as powerful CPU, and not that much cheaper.

The 13" with an eGPU is not as good as the 16" with an eGPU because not all apps work with eGPU, and the 16" has the dGPU to fallback on. The eGPU allows the 16" to run cool and quiet with a 0-5W Radeon High Side baseline.

Even with apps that don't work on eGPU, and workloads that don't require much/any GPU, an eGPU allows the CPU to run as best it possibly can (with the most power and thermal headroom), while still allowing the dGPU to be used when needed without the excessive heat and power draw.

If you don't need the additional portability (in which case you wouldn't have bought a 16" to begin with), don't bother.
[automerge]1591228068[/automerge]

CPU Computing Highside is variable based on load. I suspect your apps were just doing more or less work at the time. I'm still on 10.15.4 and watching CPU Computing High for a few seconds sees it vary from 8W to 14W. The problem is Radeon High Side being >=18W at minimum.

Thanks for the advice!!

 

[jaduffy007]

Interesting, I have wondered this. Thanks for testing!

My Asus monitor goes up to 144 Hz. But I can't select 60. Only 59.88. Is this over display port your tests?

And do you have heat / fans insanity at 144hz? I've been researching...trying to find a 24" / 27" / 32" 4K photography oriented monitor offering 100hz, or 120hz, or 144hz without success.

 

[Syther101]

How can you check those threads?

If you click the "Filters" button at the top right when viewing all threads in a category you can sort by replies.
[automerge]1591649992[/automerge]

And do you have heat / fans insanity at 144hz? I've been researching...trying to find a 24" / 27" / 32" 4K photography oriented monitor offering 100hz, or 120hz, or 144hz without success.

It should never be required. But I picked up a Asus VG27AQ to run with the new 16" after finding my Dell UltraSharp would caused it to run hot. I can confirm this monitor does achieve the 5w idle and is a lovely monitor. It's an IPS panel and I'd say I prefer it to my old dell UltraSharp tbh. rtings actually just rated it very highly as a productivity monitor: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/asus/tuf-vg27aq

The stand is a little bit on the gamer side. But put this thing on a monitor arm and it's looks very minimal and modern. Plus it's sick to not be gaming on a Dell UltraSharp anymore. This thing also has a 1ms response time!

 

[jaduffy007]

If you click the "Filters" button at the top right when viewing all threads in a category you can sort by replies.
[automerge]1591649992[/automerge]

It should never be required. But I picked up a Asus VG27AQ to run with the new 16" after finding my Dell UltraSharp would caused it to run hot. I can confirm this monitor does achieve the 5w idle and is a lovely monitor. It's an IPS panel and I'd say I prefer it to my old dell UltraSharp tbh. rtings actually just rated it very highly as a productivity monitor: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/asus/tuf-vg27aq

The stand is a little bit on the gamer side. But put this thing on a monitor arm and it's looks very minimal and modern. Plus it's sick to not be gaming on a Dell UltraSharp anymore. This thing also has a 1ms response time!

Which refresh rate are you using? 165? Thanks. Hopefully the eGPU I have coming will adequately solve the issues.

 

[nizuzen]

In my case in clamshell mode is quiet, but if I trying to use both screens internal and external the machine get's hot and noisy. After a few minutes of being closed the lid, the machine is cool and fans stopped, if I open it, hot and fan noise.

 

[ra'aknys]

Interesting, I have wondered this. Thanks for testing!

My Asus monitor goes up to 144 Hz. But I can't select 60. Only 59.88. Is this over display port your tests?

Yes, it shows as 60Hz both in Apple's settings and in EasyRes. The monitor's OSD also says 60Hz. I don't know if there's another way to tell if it's actually doing 59.88.

It's using usb-C to HDMI, on HDMI port 1 (port 2 doesn't support 144Hz).
[automerge]1591655194[/automerge]

And do you have heat / fans insanity at 144hz? I've been researching...trying to find a 24" / 27" / 32" 4K photography oriented monitor offering 100hz, or 120hz, or 144hz without success.

With my MG278 it's quiet at 144Hz only if I close the macbook's lid. But my model has a TN panel, not meant for photography and color work. Although with naked eye it looks almost identical to the macbook's screen color-wise, just a little bit less black depth.

 

[ToBro114]

I found a workaround for my setup.


The MacBook stays cool and silent at 60-65°C with 2.000 to 3.000 rpm when I connect the original charger to the right side USB-C port and the TB3 dock with 4k monitor to the left side USB-C port and also disable Turbo Boost.

That’s not the ideal setup as I’d like to have Turbo Boost enabled and only connect the dock with a single cable, but at least it’s working now with no audible fans and moderate temperatures.

 

[DM_1]

Hi all - I recently bought a new MBP 16 and came across this right away. I'm connected to a 2k external monitor in clamshell mode and the fans would run full blast shortly after powering on. I disabled turbo boost and that helped a little but the fans were still running upwards of 4k. I came across this thread and also began looking into the GPU sensor. Sure enough it was at 19W when using 1440p, if I switched to 1080p using SwitchResX, it dropped to 5-6W right away. I began playing with custom resolutions as I saw that some had success. Sure enough I found a setting that is working for me. I've been working for a few hours with turbo boost enabled at 1440p. Sensor currently between 6-7W with the occasional spike and fans around 2500rpm. See screenshot for settings. Hope this helps someone.

 

[iwillbeshera]

Hey folks,

Been reading this thread, and it has me feeling pretty unsure about my options. I need to buy a new MBP, which I will be using docked 80% of the time, and will be connected to a Dell U2715H which only does 60Hz. I'll also be using both the laptop screen and the monitor. I would have looked at alternative laptops, but as an iOS/macOS dev, I need to stick with a Mac (and for development, you really don't need anything that beastly), but as a musician, I also want to get something powerful enough to do my music on. So I'm looking at the 16", as the 13" probably won't really do the trick based on the benchmarks that I've seen.

Is the general consensus that the i7 with the 5530M or 5500M has better heat throttling? While the i7 is probably enough (I'm not making songs with hundreds of tracks, that's for sure), I did want to go with the i9, ideally, because I'd want to keep this laptop for 5ish years so performance for the long term is also important. The other option was going with the i9 but disabling TurboBoost (which would basically make it equal to i7 with Turbo Boost from what a few benchmarks in this thread have suggested). I'm waiting to see if anything gets announced at WWDC and then I'm pulling the trigger either way but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[jaduffy007]

Hey folks,

Been reading this thread, and it has me feeling pretty unsure about my options. I need to buy a new MBP, which I will be using docked 80% of the time, and will be connected to a Dell U2715H which only does 60Hz. I'll also be using both the laptop screen and the monitor. I would have looked at alternative laptops, but as an iOS/macOS dev, I need to stick with a Mac (and for development, you really don't need anything that beastly), but as a musician, I also want to get something powerful enough to do my music on. So I'm looking at the 16", as the 13" probably won't really do the trick based on the benchmarks that I've seen.

Is the general consensus that the i7 with the 5530M or 5500M has better heat throttling? While the i7 is probably enough (I'm not making songs with hundreds of tracks, that's for sure), I did want to go with the i9, ideally, because I'd want to keep this laptop for 5ish years so performance for the long term is also important. I'm waiting to see if anything gets announced at WWDC and then I'm pulling the trigger either way but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Well, as a home studio owner, music producer / songwriter...I think we're in a similar boat. If you need the lid open, then imo, you're in for a "world of hurt" with the 16" and an external monitor. Choose a gaming 144hz monitor and *maybe* you'll be fine...not sure if that's guaranteed though. 60hz? Forget it. Clamshell + Turbo Boost turned off is tolerable imo.
eGPU is another option as I'm sure you've read. I'll know the results of that option by tomorrow evening. Expensive though. I think a 13" i7 / 32gb ram + eGPU would be a great set up for audio work.

I gotta ask, do you really need a MBP? The new rumored iMac sounds pretty sweet. I'm certainly going to consider it as a replacement for my 16" once the specs / price are known. The iMac will seriously outperform the 16" MBP. iPad Air or used 2018 iPad Pro could add mobility. This combo would work nicely for me. YMMV.