2022 Formula 1 Season thread

[Pezimak]

Lewis had a 10 second penalty at Silverstone which was by the book. Not sure what you mean by ‘severely punished’ by the book? What other punishment can they issue for coming together with a competitor in a corner when the report stated Lewis was mostly to blame with Max sharing a proportion of it. They can’t just severely punish a driver because of the effect of an incident. That would again be making rules up to suit the scenario which is the reason Masi has been removed from his RD role in this instance.

How do you know Mercedes have not complained like every other team during previous years when they’ve disagreed with a decision? That seems highly unlikely considering the hundreds of investigations since 2019. I don’t think it’s strange a team doesn’t complain when a decision benefits them, why would they? It’s a competitive sport for goodness sake lol. You’ve made no secret you don’t like Mercedes or Lewis as they both feature in just about every argument you make. You may not like todays ruling on Masi either because it slightly undermines last seasons result, but nobody is going to take that championship away from Max, we’ve simply been given clarity that the events were poorly managed.

Firstly no, I don't believe for a second Masi being moved has undermined the result of last year. He interpreted the rules as written, it is the FIA's fault if this were wrong. Now we will have decisions based on agreement of more people then before so will take longer to be issued I've no doubt which can affect the outcome of the race.

I don't hate Mercedes, they play dirty politics and have too much influence, and are creative in the ways they cheat or 'bend' the rules but I see them as a rival.
But I don't think much of Lewis because he acts like a child and used F1 as a platform to promote BLM. Racism is one thing, the BLM another. I shouldn't be saying that as it's very political, but Lewis has made it a talking point as much as the racing. In a sport which has has had international drivers for years.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Firstly no, I don't believe for a second Masi being moved has undermined the result of last year.

I don't hate Mercedes, they play dirty politics and have too much influence, and are creative in the ways they cheat or 'bend' the rules but I see them as a rival.
But I don't think much of Lewis because he acts like a child and used F1 as a platform to promote BLM. Racism is one thing, the BLM another. I shouldn't be saying that as it's very political, but Lewis has made it a talking point as much as the racing. In a sport which has has had international drivers for years.

I am not surprised in the least that you don't view the decision to remove Masi as undermining the result as you support the driver who benefitted from the intervention.

You say Mercedes play 'dirty politics' but you support Red Bull who also do this? Horner exaggerating Hamilton's intent at Silverstone, and also pressuring the race director like Toto did throughout the season. I don't get your stance at all. I think the difference is you support Red Bull so are happy to overlook it when its them. If you think there is a single team on the grid that does not get involved in the politics of this sport, then I can't really help you there. I have been watching this sport for decades and no team is whiter than white when there is so much money at stake.

Finally, you say Lewis 'acts like a child' but support Max Verstappen who shows quite a level of immaturity, so once again, i think you are happy to overlook things like this when its a team or driver you favour. I can't think of a recent instance where Lewis has acted like a child, although there have been instances in his early F1 career. He doesn't tend to be too vocal in interviews these days when discussing incidents, although he recieved a lot of criticism for staying out of the public eye after the end of the 2021 season. I am absolutely behind any driver who uses their position to promote good causes though and don't see this as a negative. I think you are the one person on this thread who will be very difficult to have an objective discussion with again this year and it reminds me why I don't get too invested with teams and drivers as it blinds you to the bigger picture.

 

[Crazy Badger]

But I don't think much of Lewis because he acts like a child and used F1 as a platform to promote BLM. Racism is one thing, the BLM another. I shouldn't be saying that as it's very political, but Lewis has made it a talking point as much as the racing. In a sport which has has had international drivers for years.

How many of those international drivers were black? I think Lewis should be congratulated for taking this forward and raising awareness, not derided for it.

 

[ericwn]

How many of those international drivers were black? I think Lewis should be congratulated for taking this forward and raising awareness, not derided for it.

Well said. Obviously his team agreed and supported him accordingly as well. BLM is a result of racism still being a thing.

Besides that the more juvenile times of Lewis earlier on in his career are well known and to me it seems that the most juvenile driver just won the title last season.

 

[Pezimak]

How many of those international drivers were black? I think Lewis should be congratulated for taking this forward and raising awareness, not derided for it.

I won’t reply as I want to as this isn’t the thread, but your comment ignores F1’s history and even the current grid and skin colours as you seem to want to focus on that. Racism exists towards all skin colours.

 

[Pezimak]

I am not surprised in the least that you don't view the decision to remove Masi as undermining the result as you support the driver who benefitted from the intervention.

You say Mercedes play 'dirty politics' but you support Red Bull who also do this? Horner exaggerating Hamilton's intent at Silverstone, and also pressuring the race director like Toto did throughout the season. I don't get your stance at all. I think the difference is you support Red Bull so are happy to overlook it when its them. If you think there is a single team on the grid that does not get involved in the politics of this sport, then I can't really help you there. I have been watching this sport for decades and no team is whiter than white when there is so much money at stake.

Finally, you say Lewis 'acts like a child' but support Max Verstappen who shows quite a level of immaturity, so once again, i think you are happy to overlook things like this when its a team or driver you favour. I can't think of a recent instance where Lewis has acted like a child, although there have been instances in his early F1 career. He doesn't tend to be too vocal in interviews these days when discussing incidents, although he recieved a lot of criticism for staying out of the public eye after the end of the 2021 season. I am absolutely behind any driver who uses their position to promote good causes though and don't see this as a negative. I think you are the one person on this thread who will be very difficult to have an objective discussion with again this year and it reminds me why I don't get too invested with teams and drivers as it blinds you to the bigger picture.

Your welcome to your opinion, but Mercedes are the worst with politics IMO, and Lewis is not mature when he loses, I’ve seen several examples of that, I’ve also been watching the sport for several years. I thought it quite sad how he refused to speak to any of the media for 3 or more months now since he lost till this week when he made a thing about stating he will race this season, and it was quite insulting how he and his team refused to attend the awards when they won the constructors championship and the largest prize money as a result, that was clear in the rules. And again they made no press statement.

And just a point, you are a bit pot kettle black as your posts tend to ‘dislike’ Max and Red Bull and favour Mercedes and Lewis from what I’ve seen.
We have opposite views as we support rivals. Maybe we will get more battles on the track this year with them so we can discuss that instead of the politics of the sport.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Your welcome to your opinion, but Mercedes are the worst with politics IMO, and Lewis is not mature when he loses, I’ve seen several examples of that, I’ve also been watching the sport for several years. I thought it quite sad how he refused to speak to any of the media for 3 or more months now since he lost till this week when he made a thing about stating he will race this season, and it was quite insulting how he and his team refused to attend the awards when they won the constructors championship and the largest prize money as a result, that was clear in the rules. And again they made no press statement.

And just a point, you are a bit pot kettle black as your posts tend to ‘dislike’ Max and Red Bull and favour Mercedes and Lewis from what I’ve seen.
We have opposite views as we support rivals. Maybe we will get more battles on the track this year with them so we can discuss that instead of the politics of the sport.

Mercedes DID attend the awards ceremony. Valteri Bottas and James Allison collected the constructors trophy along with several other members of the Mercedes team . Sorry you were insulted because Lewis chose not to go but there are no rules to dictate what members of staff attend or whether or not they decide to stay off social media for a couple of months during the off-season. Sebastian Vettel isn’t on any social media at all, do you dislike him too? These guys are entitled to a private life outside of the season btw. I agree on leaving the politics out within reason, we didn’t need the things in the last few posts even mentioned.

 

[Pezimak]

Mercedes DID attend the awards ceremony. Valteri Bottas and James Allison collected the constructors trophy along with several other members of the Mercedes team . Sorry you were insulted because Lewis chose not to go but there are no rules to dictate what members of staff attend or whether or not they decide to stay off social media for a couple of months during the off-season. Sebastian Vettel isn’t on any social media at all, do you dislike him too? These guys are entitled to a private life outside of the season btw. I agree on leaving the politics out within reason, we didn’t need the things in the last few posts even mentioned.

I did write a sensible reply, but I won’t engage as you’ve taken what I said out of context. Let’s see the racing do the talking.

 

[Phil77354]

Great seeing the new cars coming out, both Ferrari and Mercedes look great!

Should we expect the cars testing beginning on the 23rd to be the full new configuration? I know the early season testing won't be a full display of the capabilities we'll see once the races begin, but I'm still very curious to see how they look and perform.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Great seeing the new cars coming out, both Ferrari and Mercedes look great!

Should we expect the cars testing beginning on the 23rd to be the full new configuration? I know the early season testing won't be a full display of the capabilities we'll see once the races begin, but I'm still very curious to see how they look and perform.

With a full regulation change, I’d expect the cars to be closer to the finished article. The only thing that might change is if they see something a rival has done that they can replicate before the first race if it gives an advantage.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

With a full regulation change, I’d expect the cars to be closer to the finished article. The only thing that might change is if they see something a rival has done that they can replicate before the first race if it gives an advantage.

I suppose the advantage teams have this season at this point is nobody knows how fast the other teams are. All these new aero innovations are unproven on the circuit so all they can do is observe.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I suppose the advantage teams have this season at this point is nobody knows how fast the other teams are. All these new aero innovations are unproven on the circuit so all they can do is observe.

They’ll certainly be doing that!

 

[pachyderm]

Off topic, but, NASCAR is using BBS single nut wheels this season...

NASCAR moving to single lug-nut design for Next Gen car

NASCAR officials announced Monday that the Next Gen car for the 2021 Cup Series will have a single, center-locking lug nut for its wheels.

www.nascar.com

Mercedes W18

Ok - I'm tired of the "renderings".

I'd rather see the actual car. I hate to say it but they should wait until they are absolutely ready to debut.

 

[Pezimak]

Off topic, but, NASCAR is using BBS single nut wheels this season...

NASCAR moving to single lug-nut design for Next Gen car

NASCAR officials announced Monday that the Next Gen car for the 2021 Cup Series will have a single, center-locking lug nut for its wheels.

www.nascar.com

Mercedes W18

Ok - I'm tired of the "renderings".

I'd rather see the actual car. I hate to say it but they should wait until they are absolutely ready to debut.

Those floors are damn low! They surely will struggle with some of
The track kerbs? Will be interesting with the sausage kerbs...

 

[NotTooLate]

That Merc is all muscles , everything is tightly packed , unreal how they do it everytime , this is why Mclaren wont be able to beat them , they use the same engine and you look how much better they are able to pack it vs the Mclaren which also went for similar structure , they just know in advance all there is to know about the engine and if need be make a tradeoff in favor of the chassis vs the engine , while the customer team cannot.

RB are the only one left to see and analyze , I hope they are closer to Ferrari , I would feel horrible if they are similar to the Mercs .... It would 99% mean the boys in red wont be on top.

 

[pachyderm]

Villeneuve in the Daytona 500... cool.

Jacques Villeneuve set for NASCAR Daytona 500 entry

www.autosport.com

Villeneuve forced into engine change ahead of Daytona 500

www.motorsport.com

 

[Pezimak]

That Merc is all muscles , everything is tightly packed , unreal how they do it everytime , this is why Mclaren wont be able to beat them , they use the same engine and you look how much better they are able to pack it vs the Mclaren which also went for similar structure , they just know in advance all there is to know about the engine and if need be make a tradeoff in favor of the chassis vs the engine , while the customer team cannot.

RB are the only one left to see and analyze , I hope they are closer to Ferrari , I would feel horrible if they are similar to the Mercs .... It would 99% mean the boys in red wont be on top.

The new cars are under strict controls, the packaging and designs can be different but only to a certain degree. You never know how a car will perform by looking at its packaging, you need to wait for them to hit the track to know.

Long video here but it goes into the changes and restrictions to a degree:

 

[NotTooLate]

The new cars are under strict controls, the packaging and designs can be different but only to a certain degree. You never know how a car will perform by looking at its packaging, you need to wait for them to hit the track to know.

Long video here but it goes into the changes and restrictions to a degree:

"You never know" is true to a very small extent , I can certainly know that the merc had the best engine (or if anyone else closed the gap , even to the best) and a top tier talent in aero and chassis development , as they dominated the field , last year they got hit hard by a regulation change (suddenly the high rake was better ) and you could see how they solved it vs Aston Martin that just caved in and surrendered.

I can safely say that Merc has top tier talent and facilities , which would mean that 99/100 times they will be able to design a car that will be a front runner , ppl who say " anyone can nail the new regulations , maybe Haas can now win races" is not living in reality , F1 made so much progress with tools and best practices that its impossible for Haas to all of the sudden be a championship contender , you can give them another year to develop the car (without seeing the other teams cars) and they wont be at the front.

In my work , I have engineers that are more talented then me , they would normally have better solutions , execute them faster and to a higher level then I can , there are also worse engineers , I am a midfield engineer , can our bottom tier engineers can have a brilliant idea? sure , but much much less likely , and they can NEVER have an array of such ideas to make the overall product better , same way that a great idea on the Haas is possible , but making the entire car brilliant ? no way , just the way engineering works , more money -> better talent + better SW and facilities == better product.

If Merc went a certain way , you can bet its going to be fast , would it be the best? no way to know , but it would be a very good racing car , they know what it takes to build a fast racing car and no reason they wont be able to do it again.

 

[Pezimak]

"You never know" is true to a very small extent , I can certainly know that the merc had the best engine (or if anyone else closed the gap , even to the best) and a top tier talent in aero and chassis development , as they dominated the field , last year they got hit hard by a regulation change (suddenly the high rake was better ) and you could see how they solved it vs Aston Martin that just caved in and surrendered.

I can safely say that Merc has top tier talent and facilities , which would mean that 99/100 times they will be able to design a car that will be a front runner , ppl who say " anyone can nail the new regulations , maybe Haas can now win races" is not living in reality , F1 made so much progress with tools and best practices that its impossible for Haas to all of the sudden be a championship contender , you can give them another year to develop the car (without seeing the other teams cars) and they wont be at the front.

In my work , I have engineers that are more talented then me , they would normally have better solutions , execute them faster and to a higher level then I can , there are also worse engineers , I am a midfield engineer , can our bottom tier engineers can have a brilliant idea? sure , but much much less likely , and they can NEVER have an array of such ideas to make the overall product better , same way that a great idea on the Haas is possible , but making the entire car brilliant ? no way , just the way engineering works , more money -> better talent + better SW and facilities == better product.

If Merc went a certain way , you can bet its going to be fast , would it be the best? no way to know , but it would be a very good racing car , they know what it takes to build a fast racing car and no reason they wont be able to do it again.

These engineers move around teams though, Red Bull has taken a fair few key engineers from Mercedes as an example and there knowledge goes with them To another team. Sure Mercedes’ will design a good car but you cannot simply state it’ll be front running and win just because it’s a Mercedes. Sure they had a fast car over recent years only it wasn’t very good at following other cars and over heated a lot. The regs don’t allow you to make a car that’s fantastic all round. Yes they got around the handicap they had last year but by bending the rules.
Not going to say the new Merc won’t be fast, but it is impossible to know with a new design and new regulations if it will be a constant front runner and dominate, need a few races to see how it performs against the other cars this year.
You are also ignoring wind tunnel testing which has been severely cut and controlled under the new regs.

Your enthusiasm for your team is great to see though. But we just need to see how they perform in a race on track. Williams, McLaren both used to be front running winning teams, although in the case of Williams it’s lack of funds has impacted the team. On the flip side Brawn only raced one season and poled it’s first ever race and finished second.

This year I’d like to see Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren battling the front row and wins.

 

[pachyderm]

Villeneuve in the Daytona 500... cool.

Jacques Villeneuve set for NASCAR Daytona 500 entry

www.autosport.com

Villeneuve forced into engine change ahead of Daytona 500

www.motorsport.com

He was nothing more than a back marker the entire race.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

He was nothing more than a back marker the entire race.

Well at least he is racing again and taking a break from making things up in interviews for attention. Him and Ralf Schumacher are the worst! Whenever I see an article online claiming something exclusive and surprising, it’s usually one of these two as the source

 

[CWallace]

Even with the cost cap, the most successful teams are likely to remain successful because they know where to spend that money most effectively. And that cost cap is going to likely hurt the less successful teams because they don't know where to spend it effectively and now cannot try and use more money to address the issues as they come up.

Yes, successful teams can become unsuccessful - we've seen it happen with Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, et. al. But that usually happens due to "external" forces like losing a great engine supplier and having to adapt to a less powerful unit or something like Ferrari where their wind tunnel was giving them bad data so they were designing the car fundamentally wrong.

AMG Mercedes does not need to worry about losing Mercedes engines and their aero team seems to have good data to work with.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Even with the cost cap, the most successful teams are likely to remain successful because they know where to spend that money most effectively. And that cost cap is going to likely hurt the less successful teams because they don't know where to spend it effectively and now cannot try and use more money to address the issues as they come up.

Yes, successful teams can become unsuccessful - we've seen it happen with Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, et. al. But that usually happens due to "external" forces like losing a great engine supplier and having to adapt to a less powerful unit or something like Ferrari where their wind tunnel was giving them bad data so they were designing the car fundamentally wrong.

AMG Mercedes does not need to worry about losing Mercedes engines and their aero team seems to have good data to work with.

It’s also about having the best designers and the teams around them. It’s easier to attract successful people when you are winning titles. That transcends all sports.

 

[CWallace]

Looks like Andretti Autosport is continuing to work towards joining The Circus in 2024: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a... -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

 

[ericwn]

Looks like Andretti Autosport is continuing to work towards joining The Circus in 2024: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a... -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

The FIA however isn’t really auditioning for new contenders as far as I understand it. Haas was the last they let in and that was 2015 if I remember correctly.

Still, an additional team would be nice to see.