MP All Models AMD Polaris, Vega, & Navi GPU macOS Support

[mrtang42]

I agree. h9826790 has already shared with us the info from Apple stating the 5,1 doesn't support encode/decode, but the 6,1 would via eGPU. If the situation changes with a future software or firmware update, or if you discover how to enable that without crippling something else like DRM, then please share your findings, but until then I don't think there's really anything else to say about it.

Yea. I agree your statement and I am sure Apple knows the Mac Pro well enough than anyone else here, but this guy is arguing based on the facts that he sees. It worth to dig little bit see if it actually work or not.

What confuses me here is that Apple officially disables all TB2 EGPU support since 10.13.4(I know you can run a script to enable it, but that's not official way.), how come now they say hardware encoding supports on 6,1 via eGPU?

 

[h9826790]

For those who want to check if your Mac can hardware decode avc1 in FCPX. Please turn OFF Background render, Create Optimised media, and Create Proxy media. Otherwise, you are playing with ProRes, not AVC1.

Anyway, here is a new video for those interested. No background rendering, no proxy media, no optimised media, all generated files deleted, direct import an AVC1 MP4 file, and how the cMP react with it in the timeline. Through out the whole process, there was zero rendering or transcoding as shown in the background task window.

The GPU usage always high, due to it was encoding the screen recording. But still able to decode the import file smoothly. CPU usage always low.

My last video wasn't make all this so clear because I suppose that's for those understadning the difference between transcoded media and the original H264 video.

If anyone want to show me how good his cMP can do this natively. Please provide all the required data.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Yea. I agree your statement and I am sure Apple knows the Mac Pro well enough than anyone else here, but this guy is arguing based on the facts that he sees. It worth to dig little bit see if it actually work or not.

What confuses me here is that Apple officially disables all TB2 EGPU support since 10.13.4(I know you can run a script to enable it, but that's not official way.), how come now they say hardware encoding supports on 6,1 via eGPU?

Apple is saying eGPU in general, not the 6,1. I mentioned the 6,1 because this is a forum for Mac Pro and the 6,1 can support eGPU with the script you mentioned.

 

[h9826790]

MisterAndrew, sorry about keep this going in your thread. I believe what I posted up to this moment still AMD polaris or Vega related (except post #1345). I just want to let the others know more about what H264 hardware accel is. And don't want any people wrongly believe that install a Vega then automatically will have H264 hardware accel in cMP. This may cost people spend extra money unnecessarily.

Since solaris8x86 epeatedly confirmed 4 times that Vega can do H264 hardware accel in cMP natively. And I can't prove him wrong at this moment. I already removed my guide and most discussion about how to make that work in another post. Which prevent the others install Hackintosh kext, or using strange boot argument unnecessarily. Until I can prove Vega has no H264 hardware accel on cMP natively. I suggest everyone follow solaris8x86's way to use the cMP and Vega. Apparently he know more than me, and it's better to keep the OS as clean as possible.

If you are not happy with our debate, please ask admin to remove all the relevant posts. Cheers!

 

[mrtang42]

eGPU via TB2 requires a hack. There's a link to more info in the first post.

I know the hack. It just doesn't sound like an Apple engineer's word(I am not questioning you). They are the ones disable the TB2 egpu.
[doublepost=1557177361][/doublepost]

MisterAndrew, sorry about keep this going in your thread. I believe what I posted up to this moment still AMD polaris or Vega related (except post #1345). I just want to let the others know more about what H264 hardware accel is. And don't want any people wrongly believe that install a Vega then automatically will have H264 hardware accel in cMP. This may cost people spend extra money unnecessarily.

Since solaris8x86 epeatedly confirmed 4 times that Vega can do H264 hardware accel in cMP natively. And I can't prove him wrong at this moment. I already removed my guide and most discussion about how to make that work in another post. Which prevent the others install Hackintosh kext, or using strange boot argument unnecessarily. Until I can prove Vega has no H264 hardware accel on cMP natively. I suggest everyone follow solaris8x86's way to use the cMP and Vega. Apparently he know more than me, and it's better to keep the OS as clean as possible.

If you are not happy with our debate, please ask admin to remove all the relevant posts. Cheers!

You don't have to apologize anything. This is the forums for people to ask question on known or unknown problem. You did what you have to do. Stay on the facts(not personal) is always good.

Apple is the one here confuses people.

 

[h9826790]

For those who want to know if RX580 is good enough for H264 4K real time edit in FCPX. Here is the result. Once again, as you can see in the video, no ProRes, no Proxy, no optimised media, no background rendering, no generated media, no tricks. Simply import the 4K H264 AVC1 video in FCPX and apply some filters straight away, the timeline playback still smooth. As you can see, I show you the FCPX setting, if there is any framedrop, an alert window will pop up.

Note, when scrubbing in the timeline, it isn't as smooth as 1080P. IMO, it's at the workable level, but definitely not being considered buttery smooth. Nowhere near ProRes in 4K. The screen recording may affect it a bit. But even no screen recording, timeline scrubbing still not as smooth as 1080P (the original file is stored on a RAM disk, and haven't copied to the library as per the video's setting shows, so I/O shouldn't be a problem. That's just a 30Mbps file, and 106MB size in total. It's absolutely nothing for a Ram drive).

I believe the Vega can do better. But I can't test it unless someone donate a Vega or a Radeon VII to me

Anyway, for those have Vega and have H264 hwaccel activated, I suggest perform similar test and let us know the result. I really want to know if Vega can have buttery smooth timeline scrubbing with 4K H264 AVC, or we need Radeon VII to do that. Or the cMP simply can't do that because something still CPU single thread limiting etc. (REMEMBER, in order to test H264 direct edit performance, all background rendering, proxy, optimised media etc must be turned OFF).

A little summary, RX580 8GB is definitely good enough to edit H264 4K in real time without transcoding. I can apply multiple filters, the time line can still play without frame drop. However, without rendering into ProRes, if adding some transition, frame drop may occur (as per the video shows, and it proved that there was no frame drop during playback with just filters). I don't know if Vega or above can handle transition without rendering into ProRes, but I believe it can. Because when I am not using screen recording, there is only one frame drop, after I press enter, I can continue to play the transition without any issue. But if I try to use screen recording at the same time, then multiple frame drop alerts will pop up for a single transition. Which means very possible this operation was GPU performance limiting at that moment.

Anyway, enjoy the hardware accel on cMP. We are almost there, just need to figure out how to get H265 encoding and DRM streaming, then our cMP can easily be the best video editing machine even dealing with those up to date video format.

 

[PowerMac84]

Lesson learnt:

1. Make sure you have configured the graphic card correctly (no mod of anything, Especially its BIOS...(you get the point especially for those Vega Reference cards due to fixing the fan problem)).
2. Make sure the card is not a second hand or an used or an altered card.
3. Make sure the storage system is fast enough to handle multi video clips concurrently (no IO-bound problem). Storage for video editing required special tuning on its I/O Controller (in RAID or SAN parameters such as I/O block size in the stripe (stripe size)).
4. No anti virus software is running while doing benchmark.
5. Make sure your Mac OS is clean and normal and the apps supported the hardware accelerated feature. No additional hacking and not beta.

So this hardware acceleration discussion for Vega 56 on Mac Pro 2010 (5,1) has been repeatedly confirmed 4 times already that it is super fine and ok + working in perfect condition. Case is now permanently closed.

That is not correct. A cMP cannot play back 4K footage from EVA-1. Nothing on this thread is closed. It is not working.
I know because I have an iMac Pro, a Hackintosh, a MacBook Pro and two cMP (Dual 3,46 GHz plus Sapphire Vega 56) here to test it. Whether local SSD or Fibre Channel SAN is making no difference. There is no playback for AVC-1 on the old Mac Pro because there is no GPU decoding in FCPX. (There is in Adobe Premiere.) All other Macs play back EVA-1 footage smoothly with little CPU involved, but using the graphics card instead. On the cMP it is the opposite: Vega 56 is doing nothing but the CPU tries really hard and fails.

I watched your videos. This looks like non-professional footage in 4:2:0 and 8 Bit. EVA-1 uses AVC-1 with LongGOP in 4:2:2 and 10 Bits. Framerate 23,97p and 59,94p. Resolution is 4K DCI which is slightly larger than standard Ultra-HD: 4160*2160. No GPU decode on nMP, but on iMac Pro, MacBook Pro and Hackintosh. I thought we were discussing real video editing with footage from cinema cameras.

 

[h9826790]

Since we already figured out how to get HEVC hardware decode as well. I also tested FCPX direct edit HEVC's performance. Roughly the same as H264.

Up to 1080P, it's flawless. I can import HEVC, add filter or transition, and still play the time line in realtime without frame drop. The timeline scrubbing is also very smooth (not exactly as smooth as ProRes, but very close).

And if direct editing HEVC in 4K, also roughly the same performance as direct H264 editing. Adding filters are fine, but not transition. Hopefully it's just GPU limiting, at the end, I am only using an RX580.

 

[PowerMac84]

Since we already figured out how to get HEVC hardware decode as well. I also tested FCPX direct edit HEVC's performance. Roughly the same as H264.

Up to 1080P, it's flawless. I can import HEVC, add filter or transition, and still play the time line in realtime without frame drop. The timeline scrubbing is also very smooth (not exactly as smooth as ProRes, but very close).

And if direct editing HEVC in 4K, also roughly the same performance as direct H264 editing. Adding filters are fine, but not transition. Hopefully it's just GPU limiting, at the end, I am only using an RX580.

That‘s not 10 Bit, it‘s not 4K DCI resolution and it‘s not 4:2:2.

 

[h9826790]

That‘s not 10 Bit, it‘s not 4K DCI resolution and it‘s not 4:2:2.

I don't have such video on hand. Anyway, what I want to show the others is just now HEVC direct editing is possible. That's for others (if not what you want), I assume some of them interested to know if these AMD GPU can direct edit something like a simple iPhone HEVC video on the cMP now.

Of course, there still many parameters within HEVC group. If you know where to download a sample video that has exact format you are looking for (or you can make one for me to download, just something like 10-15s long should be enough to know if we can have smooth playback or not).

Noted, I only has RX580, at this moment, it seems I can have smooth play back up to 4K HEVC 10bit HDR video, but not smooth real time editing. If you want to know exactly "Can Vega direct edit those videos" I can't help. At most I can only tell you if possible to play back those video smoothly on the cMP.

 

[w1z]

Naming calling & trolling is now acceptable on Macrumors. What's next, being civil?



Lol. If you say so, repeatedly.

This thread got seriously derailed. Moderators should consider cleaning it up b/c it's beginning to stink up bad.

I already reported that post and would ask all those that found it to be offensive to report it too.

No room for trollerz or abuse, in any form, on MR!

 

[PowerMac84]

Thanks for making it clear he is just trolling. I did that too when I was young. I understand it’s entertaining.

I will upload some Panasonic EVA-1 footage for the community. So everyone can check whether it works in FCPX. I can also help because there are various Macs here, all connected to the same SAN: an iMac Pro, a 2017 iMac, a MacBook, two cMPs with Vega 56 and a Hackintosh. It’s quite easy to check whether some sort of hardware decode via GPU or quick sync is working on those Macs.

It’s different for Red Raw footage by the way. 4K Raw and even 6K raw Play back quite well on the old Mac Pro in FCPX.

To me it seems that some footage is playing back smoother in FCPX like Red Raw and there’s this AVC-1 footage in 10 Bit 4K DCI which is also stuttering even in the Finder.

 

[bazza5938]

For those who want to know if RX580 is good enough for H264 4K real time edit in FCPX. Here is the result. Once again, as you can see in the video, no ProRes, no Proxy, no optimised media, no background rendering, no generated media, no tricks. Simply import the 4K H264 AVC1 video in FCPX and apply some filters straight away, the timeline playback still smooth. As you can see, I show you the FCPX setting, if there is any framedrop, an alert window will pop up.

A little summary, RX580 8GB is definitely good enough to edit H264 4K in real time without transcoding. I can apply multiple filters, the time line can still play without frame drop. However, without rendering into ProRes, if adding some transition, frame drop may occur (as per the video shows, and it proved that there was no frame drop during playback with just filters). I don't know if Vega or above can handle transition without rendering into ProRes, but I believe it can. Because when I am not using screen recording, there is only one frame drop, after I press enter, I can continue to play the transition without any issue. But if I try to use screen recording at the same time, then multiple frame drop alerts will pop up for a single transition. Which means very possible this operation was GPU performance limiting at that moment.

Anyway, enjoy the hardware accel on cMP. We are almost there, just need to figure out how to get H265 encoding and DRM streaming, then our cMP can easily be the best video editing machine even dealing with those up to date video format.

Interestingly, I'm NOT getting the same results as you, and trying to see if I can see why, turned off background rendering, and proxy/optimised so I'm working with original footage (from my drone, so h264, DCI 4k, 50fps, rec709) and when I add to a timeline and playback, I'm not getting smooth playback, my GPU is doing some work, but not a lot, and my 6 actual cores are getting pegged, rx 580 8gb, 10.14.5 beta (18f127a) file coming from 1500mb/s nvme. However, if I set the timeline to 25fps before adding my media, playback is smooth, and it conforms the media to it, but still not using 100% GPU or anything to do so. When I play back this media in IINA or VLC, it's perfectly smooth and I get a combination of GPU and CPU use, but much more GPU being used than in FCPX, oddly, Quicktime Player doesn't seem to be using GPU very much, and uses CPU a lot less, but is also very stuttery, this is without any tweaks to enable things attempted etc.

 

[PowerMac84]

I‘m sorry if you have this impression. This is not a FCPX thread. It‘s more about how a cMP can use it‘s massive power in video editing without being crippled by Apple‘s policies.

FCPX like other applications heavies relies upon GPU decoding. Or in other words: video editing is a prime example where GPU performance actually helps a lot. ‘VideoProc‘ is another example of a software that does use the power of graphic cards.

 

[XNorth]

I tested a couple of the new Polaris-based AMD Radeon RX 590 cards, and they work pretty well OTB with the Mac Pro 5,1. In my initial comparison, both the Gigabyte RX 590 Gaming and the MSI RX 590 AMOR should be good alternatives to the Sapphire PULSE RX 580 8GB.

I don't have an 580 to compare, but according to published reports, the 590 can be 10% faster than the 580 at the same power consumption.

 

[zoltm]

Despite I am merely a casual user of the cMP, I do no heavy lifting video editing stuff with my cMP. The most demanding task I throw at my cMP might probably be 4K,5K footage playback in Youtube and viewing Netflix on my cMP.

I do find the video editing related discussion here enlightening. I do appreciate h9826790's consistency in making the community informed and argument with very detailed screen capture and write-up. I treasure someone would spend time on this stuff and I would not miss those chances for some free education. Some how I could not understand why some people would like to de-railed the useful discussion with some hostile attitude. If you don't like the discussion, why not just move on and keep quiet.

 

[solaris8x86]

Interestingly, Quicktime Player doesn't seem to be using GPU very much, and uses CPU a lot less

I'm not sure the following will work on you but you can give it a try.

1. In the preference of FCPX. Check Leave files in place. Where you should place your source files on a very fast drive or virtual drive (LUN). This drive should have at least 10Gbps consecutive read/write speed. To try out a consecutive read/write test. You can download AJA System Test software (https://www.aja.com/products/aja-system-test). Do a benchmark yourself with a file 4k media at 64GB file size. Let the AJA software to stress the drive. See if the drive can have a read and write test consecutively doing of a speed > 1,000Mbps. If you see it is fluctuating during the read or write (Not constantly stable at peak performance, such as very fast at the beginning but the performance drops sharply after a few or ten seconds later). Then your drive performance is not ok for FCPX. The AJA software can tell the fact for you. And the timeline could be lagging on those who cannot get qualified on this test. And that drive should always have at least 30% of free space. In this case, the drive where it houses the FCPX Library doesn't have to be very fast. But at least it should have the speed of a SSD drive 500Mbps Read/Write.
2. In the preference of FCPX. Enable the Create optimised media checkbox and disable the Create Proxy media check box. Proxy media is for poor performance Mac only. Not your case I think if you have a Mac Pro + Radeon 7970 (or Metal supported cards) or above.
3. Close and reopen FCPX.
4. Create a new event and project. Import the media. Leave files in place during the import.

See if there is any improvement to the performance of the timeline scrolling.

And QuickTime is a native media player by default to use hardware h264 decoding on Mac. Basically all recent Radeon Cards will do. On VLC, you need to enable the checkbox "hardware decoding" in the preference. But no guarantee.

 

[PowerMac84]

BTW: cool times.

It has never been closer to the new Mac Pro.
The old ones still rule. Come on. Nobody believes that ten year old computer technology could be so cool. No stupid server, no smartphone is still cool. Just this nice silver cheese grater is so cool that you can still use. I even do 4K editing on it - although I have a really fast Hackintosh in my mastering and colour grading suite, I like the Mac Pro. It‘s cool.

Maybe it is becoming nicer times for Mac users (me since 1990!).

 

[itdk92]

Any news about Radeon VII + 10.14.5 in regards to performance in beta 5?

 

[MisterAndrew]

No obvious changes to the graphics drivers in 10.14.5 beta 5.

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
Closed for moderator review

Thread is now open, and a number of posts were removed due to rules violations

 

[MisterAndrew]

There are some good deals on Polaris and Vega GPUs.

The Sapphire Pulse RX 580 8GB is $189.99 right now from Newegg with a promo code.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202278

Several RX Vega 56 graphics cards are $299.99 via Amazon and Newegg. There was even a refurbished reference 56 (PowerColor) from Newegg for $229.99 (currently out of stock).
[doublepost=1557770820][/doublepost]Just in case anyone hasn't noticed there's a AMD Radeon™ VII Gold Edition limited edition available from AMD's website. It comes as a bundle with games and a t-shirt. Be aware that a Radeon VII purchased direct from AMD has a 1 year warranty. Some AIB partners (such as MSI) offer up to 3 year warranty on the Radeon VII.

 

[bsbeamer]

Briefly saw Sapphire Pulse RX 580 8GB for $175 on Amazon last week, back at $200 now. If anyone is considering purchasing in the near future, plan to purchase soon while these models are still being actively sold as new by major retailers. Some of the lowest prices seen.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Briefly saw Sapphire Pulse RX 580 8GB for $175 on Amazon last week, back at $200 now. If anyone is considering purchasing in the near future, plan to purchase soon while these models are still being actively sold as new by major retailers. Some of the lowest prices seen.

That's a great deal! Yeah, it's hard to say how long the RX 580 and other Polaris cards will continue to be sold. Some of them could be discontinued after the Navi unveil at Computex later this month.
[doublepost=1557771791][/doublepost]Although it might be better to wait for a Navi GPU. It's possible 10.14.6 or 10.15 beta will have a Navi driver.
[doublepost=1557773221][/doublepost]I haven't found any obvious changes in the Polaris and Vega drivers in 10.14.5 final.

 

[deconstruct60]

That's a great deal! Yeah, it's hard to say how long the RX 580 and other Polaris cards will continue to be sold. Some of them could be discontinued after the Navi unveil at Computex later this month.

This is probably out of the space of any Mac Pro update, but some will be sold

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-radeon-rx-640-radeon-630-graphics-card,39325.html

Looks a bit like that their plans for the lowest end ( sub 75W , bus only powered ) solution may be off the mark.

AMD may unveil at Computex , but some signs that will be decoupled from actually shipping. CEO said 3rd Q which is technically minimally July ( and could be August or beginning of September). [ Navi is rumored to have some performance issues which wouldn't be "unusual" as Polaris and Vega had 'out of the gate' issues also. ]

[doublepost=1557771791][/doublepost]Although it might be better to wait for a Navi GPU. It's possible 10.14.6 or 10.15 beta will have a Navi driver.

The farther Navi slides the more likely it won't show until 10.15.x ( and miss 10.14). 10.14 is getting o the stage where there will be a feature halt and substantive shift of resources to getting 10.15 finished before end of September. WWDC is pretty likely a "end of the road" point for 10.14.