Android is still way superior

[Michael Goff]

It was the core philosophy of ios when it came out. Remember Steve was against AppStore and third party native apps. By the time he changed the stance, too late, ios was already built to integrate those apps as system apps with no default option.

Just like google has to work real hard to make android smooth because the foundation was intended for something else, again too late to start from scratch.

If you notice though, as a software developer it gets hard to figure out all the future requirements your OS might need to fulfill, so I don't blame ios or android much about that. I just hate that it is actually fixable every couple of years, but thanks to app devs being lazy as usual, no company wants to shake the OS foundations drastically to force them to change their apps.

All we can really do is hope the competition is always alive and we always have a choice to use whatever fits out needs at a given time, because technology evolves quite rapidly.

Nothing is superior however IMO.

Never said anything was superior about it.

I do think we need to have two competing design philosophies, though. That way we have two different products.

 

[sentinelsx]

Never said anything was superior about it.

I do think we need to have two competing design philosophies, though. That way we have two different products.

Nah it was a jab at all the fighting going on here. Not at you.

But you are going to have competing design philosophies because what one likes, is hated by another. Human nature. "One size fits all" is not an awesome way to go on software which can be extremely flexible to fit a user's needs. As Gruber said in one of his posts on his blog, hardware design is limited by tons of physical stuff, but software can overcome almost anything if executed right.

 

[Assault]

You obviously don't keep tabs on security matters yourself. Your Android device is obviously referring to the Samsung devices running Knox.

Almost a month ago iOS devices were approved by the DoD. Clearly both iOS6 devices and Samsung Knox devices were being certified at roughly the same time, the Samsungs getting approval a couple of weeks prior to this.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/17/4340252/department-of-defense-approval-iphone-ipad

iDevices are cleared for DoD use, but not for secure use. Why? Because it can't be modified to meet DoD classification standards. obviously, there may be an exception or two, but that isn't going to be common.

 

[Peterg2]

iDevices are cleared for DoD use, but not for secure use. Why? Because it can't be modified to meet DoD classification standards. obviously, there may be an exception or two, but that isn't going to be common.

Would you kindly clarify this release from the DoD? I don't really see a distinction between the two but I will admit that I do not follow security issues that assiduously:

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=120073

 

[ReanimationN]

Doesn't need one. You can actually read text on it from more than 5" away from your face. A 3.99" display, not so much.

What? I was asking why it has such a giant bezel when it only has software buttons.

 

[Assault]

Would you kindly clarify this release from the DoD? I don't really see a distinction between the two but I will admit that I do not follow security issues that assiduously:

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=120073

The DoD has multiple levels of network and computer classification, ranging from NIPR or Unclassified, to SIPR or Secret and finally JWICS or Top Secret. Additionally, certain Top Secret networks have Special Compartmented Information programs that require a need to know, in order to access them.
In order to add a device onto any of these networks, even Unclassified networks, the device needs to meet certain DoD standards. In the case mentioned here, iOS, Samsung and BB all can access this level. Examples would be for Officers and enlisted on watch, flight crews, department heads, commanding officers and the like. Blackberries have been used exclusively in this role, until very recently.
Next up the ladder will be devices that can compartmentalize secure data and can be modified to accept additional software and/or disable certain pieces of hardware (like a camera). In this case, only BB and Samsung meet this requirement. There will always be special exclusions for an iOS device (an example may be a special iPad will be used to brief the President, but that iPad will never see the light of day and will always be kept within a SCIF.)

----------

What? I was asking why it has such a giant bezel when it only has software buttons.

How the hell should I know? Probably because a tablet like the Nexus 7 needs to be held in landscape mode more than a tiny phone, hence the bezel is needed. Why does a 9.7" iPad need such a huge bezel? Probably the same reason. A tiny phone like the iPhone doesn't need that huge bezel, since it can be palmed in one hand. Right?

 

[spinedoc77]

Screen real estate you lose? Have you seen the size of the bezel required for that huge round home button? It's one of the reasons why the iPhone doesn't even reach the 4" screen size. Huge bezel for that huge home button.

As for home button failures, you know exactly what I am referring to. There are hundreds of threads on how to fix unresponsive and broken home buttons on this very forum.

Look how much bezel is wasted on a home button. Imagine the screen going all the way down and then having programmable, onscreen buttons that are only 45 pixels high (which is normal height for Android), which is roughly 1/3 the height of the bezel shown here. In reality, you gain real estate, not lose it. Just saying.
Image

I don't think I've ever seen a post on here about broken home buttons on here, certainly not "hundreds", wow. I'm not saying they don't exist, but just in casual forum perusal I haven't really seen any.

As for bezel wasted, bezels look the same to me on non hardware button phones, worse yet if you add the screen size they take away. Although I have never did a round up of measuring phones and comparing the bezel to screen ratio, that would actually be an interesting study.

 

[mib1800]

A couple of reasons....

1.) The experience is generally better when you control all aspects of a service. Its why Airplay works pretty seamlessly while something non-proprietary like DLNA is, at times, a mess. But even if that wasn't the case, we'd still be left with....

2.) Apple is a hardware company. They want you to buy their hardware (often). So they create these services that generally only work on their devices (with a few exceptions) in order to keep you coming back for more hardware. You may or may not agree with this type of business model, but it is what it is. The benefit of buying into Apple's way of doing things is that it is very convenient to do so and their hardware intermingles well together right out of the box. No tinkering required. And that's a draw for a LOT of people. But if that doesn't appeal to you and the open-ness of Android and the options that become available to you through it suit you better then that's fine too.

We have a lot of options that lend themselves to making everyone happy along the way. The problem we run into is folks thinking what they feel is the best is automatically the best for everyone. That's what leads to irrational pissing matches that we see on sites like this constantly.

What you said make sense from a business point of view. Apple wants to make lots of money by locking you in and making you buy their hardware . BUT I dont agree with you that Apple products work more seamlessly due to proprietary and platform dependent. Put aside Airplay for now since this technology is only making its way to Android (i.e. miracast - newer TVs are beginning to support this AND without need to buy additional Apple tv box).

- Is using Lightning adaptor makes thing more seamless? NO
- Is using Itunes/Icloud more seamless? Not more seamless than Google.
- Is Airdrop more seamless than just plain old BT/Wifi-direct? No
- Is transfering files via Itunes more seamless than direct copying via USB? Unlikely.

I know a lot of people still think Apple products are easier to use but it is just not true.

 

[ReanimationN]

How the hell should I know? Probably because a tablet like the Nexus 7 needs to be held in landscape mode more than a tiny phone, hence the bezel is needed. Why does a 9.7" iPad need such a huge bezel? Probably the same reason. A tiny phone like the iPhone doesn't need that huge bezel, since it can be palmed in one hand. Right?

The 9.7" iPad is much larger than the N7 and much harder to hold in one hand, but even that is about to be redesigned to feature less bezel. The iPad mini is the better product to compare the N7 to, and it has far less bezel than the N7. So why does the N7 have such a huge bezel despite its buttonless design?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I do think we need to have two competing design philosophies, though. That way we have two different products.

I agree with that too.
I have to say reading the last couple of pages of this thread I think it identifies two very different types of consumer. Some of the advantages listed here for Android over iOS are things I've either never heard of or even thought of doing. I certainly didn't do these things during my 4 year Android spell. Not criticising in the slightest, but it has to be said that not everybody has the same demands from a mobile phone.

Gaming - I never install and play games on my phone, I have a PS3 for that type of enjoyment.

Movies - Apart from the odd funny video or Youtube clip I've never felt the need to download or watch TV/Films on my phone. This goes for torrents too. I don't illegally download software or copyrighted material and if I did I would not be using my iPhone for this purpose.

Those are just two main things I pulled out of the discussion that other rave about but are of no interest to me. I moved to iOS from Android because I fancied something different. I've found the experience more pleasurable and enjoy the stability, and easy nature that iOS has given me so far. I love iTunes and the access to podcasts, and the easy way I can back up and restore my phone. These were not to pleasant on my S3 and HTC Incredible S in the past. We have two very different design/business philosophies and they cater for two very different types of consumer. Am I wrong for preferring iOS? Of course not. Are others wrong for preferring Android? Of course not either. This silly fighting over features is getting even more stale by the day. Nobody is wrong for preferring something else and its not like each person is suddenly going to be convinced because another's own opinion on what is important for them.

 

[cnev3]

"Android is still way superior".

Really, way superior? Damn, I thought if something is way superior then 100% of people would be using it. A calculator is way superior to an abacus, and i'll be damned if i've ever seen anyone in math class choosing an abacus over a calculator.

Yet I've owned several Android phones, but I switched to iOS because of its unique offerings I use and appreciated, which I decided was more important to me than the unique offerings of Android which I also used and appreciated.

Though i'd never make myself look like a biased fanboy and say iOS is way superior. Because I acknowledge that other people may use and appreciate Androids features more than I use and appreciate iPhones features, Give consumers a tiny bit more credit than that.

 

[MonkeySee....]

You ask that because we haven't seen that argument played over and over and over again?

You should be able to recognize a purely trolling post. Look at his two posts on the thread you started and you'd see he has no intention of responding with any sort of reasoned argument.

With that though, I will leave you to it, like most threads in this forum, after about 10 posts they become "more noise than signal"

Calling me a troll is against forums rules by the way but I'll let it slide.

It was a genuine question. As it's down to individual experience I was interested in such a broad statement. For my personal use using many apple products. Android would never work for me. As for many iOS users the current feature set works well.

Having said that I like the way you can interact with a Samsung phone with out touching it. I was washing up the other day and could have done with that.

 

[cynics]

The 9.7" iPad is much larger than the N7 and much harder to hold in one hand, but even that is about to be redesigned to feature less bezel. The iPad mini is the better product to compare the N7 to, and it has far less bezel than the N7. So why does the N7 have such a huge bezel despite its buttonless design?

Image

Tablets need bezel. My main gripe with my Xoom is lack of bezel and difficult to hold. If the iPad is redesigned with less it will be useless to me unless it has amazing accidental touch detection. There's no way to use tablet in front of you without a thumb on the front or if there is its tricky or two handed. Hence bezel.

Phones on the other hand can be held by the edges so there is little need for a massive bezel. The only phone that pulls this off quite nicely (off the top of my head) is the Razr M.

This imagine is washed out but illiterates where the screens start and stop.

The screen the on screen buttons take up are made for in height and width. It's basically an iPhone 5 size device with a 4.3" screen. This btw is what I was expecting with the 5. Or that with a smaller home button in an Apple design. I don't even know if they still sell the M.

 

[jrswizzle]

This was an interesting list by jrswizzle. If we break it down though, he is making a case for Android vice iOS. Examples he used:

1. Gaming: Gaming is a pathetic joke on iOS. You are limited to virtual buttons, with no tactile feedback and games are basic interfaces limiting you to swipe and tap. Android allows for external controllers from numerous manufacturers allowing for a real gaming experience. Even with a phone like an S3, you can hook it up to a 55" TV and play anything from classic Nintendo to FPS 's like Dead Trigger or Modern Combat 4.

2. Fluidity: At this point in time, it is a draw. I see plenty of lag in iOS and in all sorts of apps, in Siri, in Safari, etc.

3. Profit share: Here is the standard rebuttal from Apple supporters, as if it means something to every user. If anything, it shows the gullibility of Apple' s consumer. But, if you want to break it down, Samsung is the one gaining on Apple at an incredible pace, and blows by Apple in YoY growth.

4. Ecosystem: Another meaningless point these days. Roku is 10x better than Apple TV and works with any TV/PC combo and has more capabilities for the same price. Airdroid, Plex, Android File Transfer can work with any Android phone with any type of PC on any type of network. And of course, Google apps work with any PC, any tablet and any phone. So, we have Apple's ecosystem (which is very limited and prevents 2 year old hardware from being able to use features from the latest OSX release!) or an open ecosystem that allowd for multiple pieces of hardware, from various manufacturers and the software continually gets updated.

5. Security: Is this why the DoD allowed an Android device on to secure networks, but iDevices aren't, because the hardware /software can't be modified or partitioned? Is this also why Malware found in the playstore outside of China and Russia is only 1% of 800,000 apps and an insignificant statistical probability of any user getting infected. Not to mention the user hss to approve the app? And didn't Apple just now get 2 factor authentication, but it still isn't secure? Google has had this feature for how long? Doesn't appear jrswizzle has a firm grasp of what secure means.

Perhaps you missed my point - I was speaking sarcastically in response to the vastly general categories the poster I quoted had mentioned. But hey, if you want to play ball, let's play ball.

(1) Gaming - wrong about being limited to virtual controls. While I can't hook up a PS3 controller, there are quite a few third party options out there and if you paid attention and were informed, you saw added support for MFi Game Controllers in iOS 7 including details on Apple designs for both stand alone game controllers and ones you dock the phone into.

Also, the game quality and choices aren't even close....iOS has infinitely more games than Android.

(2) Fluidity - And everyone can say whatever they want here because its all anecdotal evidence. The only real indication I have is Google released Project Butter and has continued with it to achieve a more fluid OS. Perhaps the response time isn't the right way to characterize what I mean when I say iOS is more fluid....the animations respond to my finger better, or in a more pleasing way.

At any rate, this is a moot point (like those the poster I quoted).

(3) Profit share - Again, I think you missed my point but here's something. Why should I care if Apple leads the world in market share OR profit share? Both are equally inconsequential to me as a consumer, as long as the device does what I want.

As I stated above, general response to a general post. And regardless of Samsung's "gains" Apple still has over 60%.....with VASTLY fewer devices.

(4) Ecosystem - sometimes, having the ability to run numerous different services isn't always the best. My family and friends use iPhones. Its WAY easier to share photos through photo stream for me because ALL the people I share with use photo stream. Sure, some use dropbox as well (which I can use to share), I can share to Facebook or Twitter or through Instagram or Flikr or Tumblr......I think you get the point.....

As for proprietary sharing systems, is Samsung's S-Beam "bumping" compatible with ANY Android device? I wasn't aware that it was......all these individual companies want you first to buy their product and then make your family and friends buy their product as well. Android as an initial platform is definitely very open - but stop kidding yourself that it always stays that way.

If I can have everything I want within a specific ecosystem with controls and syncing that works the same across every device I use and works seamlessly with little to no effort for me, why wouldn't I choose that over being able to pick and choose different services? My AppleTVs give me access to my Netflix account, my iCloud movies, music and TV Shows as well as my home library saved on a hard drive and AirPlay allows me to throw whatever I want up on any of my TV displays including utilizing my TV as a wireless 1080p display for my iMac and future MBA.

(5) Security - I won't pretend to know about what the DoD does and doesn't do.....all I know is a generally closed system is generally more secure than something that's open. And I'm not necessarily even talking about malware (which can obviously be avoided by being careful and smart), but the quality of apps falls here too - there's a lot of crap on the Play Store - both harmful and just plain irritating.

That being said, I like not having to even give a thought to whether or not the app I've downloaded is going to crash my phone or iPad.

Anyways - I'm not sure why I've gone and explained all this. I was responding to an idiotic post and I know you - regardless of any logic put in front of you - will simply talk in circles until Android is "superior". So consider this a courtesy response.....I won't be getting into this death trap of a conversation with you again.

 

[ReanimationN]

Tablets need bezel. My main gripe with my Xoom is lack of bezel and difficult to hold. If the iPad is redesigned with less it will be useless to me unless it has amazing accidental touch detection. There's no way to use tablet in front of you without a thumb on the front or if there is its tricky or two handed. Hence bezel.

Phones on the other hand can be held by the edges so there is little need for a massive bezel. The only phone that pulls this off quite nicely (off the top of my head) is the Razr M.

This imagine is washed out but illiterates where the screens start and stop.

Image

The screen the on screen buttons take up are made for in height and width. It's basically an iPhone 5 size device with a 4.3" screen. This btw is what I was expecting with the 5. Or that with a smaller home button in an Apple design. I don't even know if they still sell the M.

I agree somewhat- tablets need some bezel, but the N7 has way too much. Also, the iPhone's bezel isn't all that big when compared to some of the top Android phones, like the One:

They're quite similar.

 

[KillaMac]

The DoD has multiple levels of network and computer classification, ranging from NIPR or Unclassified, to SIPR or Secret and finally JWICS or Top Secret. Additionally, certain Top Secret networks have Special Compartmented Information programs that require a need to know, in order to access them.
In order to add a device onto any of these networks, even Unclassified networks, the device needs to meet certain DoD standards. In the case mentioned here, iOS, Samsung and BB all can access this level. Examples would be for Officers and enlisted on watch, flight crews, department heads, commanding officers and the like. Blackberries have been used exclusively in this role, until very recently.
Next up the ladder will be devices that can compartmentalize secure data and can be modified to accept additional software and/or disable certain pieces of hardware (like a camera). In this case, only BB and Samsung meet this requirement. There will always be special exclusions for an iOS device (an example may be a special iPad will be used to brief the President, but that iPad will never see the light of day and will always be kept within a SCIF.)

----------



How the hell should I know? Probably because a tablet like the Nexus 7 needs to be held in landscape mode more than a tiny phone, hence the bezel is needed. Why does a 9.7" iPad need such a huge bezel? Probably the same reason. A tiny phone like the iPhone doesn't need that huge bezel, since it can be palmed in one hand. Right?

Incorrect. I work for the government and we have software that allows us to turn off features like the camera on iOS devices. We have been using iOS for a few years now due to it being more secure than android.

 

[cynics]

I agree somewhat- tablets need some bezel, but the N7 has way too much. Also, the iPhone's bezel isn't all that big when compared to some of the top Android phones, like the One:

Image

They're quite similar.

I never used a 7 long enough to make a fair assessment but I agree with you on the Android phones. I think the S4 is a step in the right direct but the M nailed it. Just needs to be a better higher specd better software etc phone. That why I was hoping Apple went that route.

 

[spinedoc77]

The 9.7" iPad is much larger than the N7 and much harder to hold in one hand, but even that is about to be redesigned to feature less bezel. The iPad mini is the better product to compare the N7 to, and it has far less bezel than the N7. So why does the N7 have such a huge bezel despite its buttonless design?

Image

Nice comparison, I've wondered the same thing as well. Honestly what impresses me these days in hardware is LESS bezel, heck give me no bezel and I'll be wowed. I have no use for iOS in tablet form, but I must say the hardware design of the mini (and soon to be full ipad) is just unmatched by anyone.

 

[cynics]

Nice comparison, I've wondered the same thing as well. Honestly what impresses me these days in hardware is LESS bezel, heck give me no bezel and I'll be wowed. I have no use for iOS in tablet form, but I must say the hardware design of the mini (and soon to be full ipad) is just unmatched by anyone.

I disagree. Appearance yes but hardware functionality no. I think stereo speakers should be a minimum requirement for any media consumption device. And I do laugh when I see pictures on eBay, Craigslist, etc with a big square shadow in the middle from no flash on the camera. I mean come on, these are things the competition had back in early 2011.

Lighter would be nice though. I'm waiting for the actual specs and release before I pick up an iPad 4 cheaper. I have a 3 now.

 

[spinedoc77]

I disagree. Appearance yes but hardware functionality no. I think stereo speakers should be a minimum requirement for any media consumption device. And I do laugh when I see pictures on eBay, Craigslist, etc with a big square shadow in the middle from no flash on the camera. I mean come on, these are things the competition had back in early 2011.

Lighter would be nice though. I'm waiting for the actual specs and release before I pick up an iPad 4 cheaper. I have a 3 now.

Well you can have nice speakers at the bottom of the phone like the iphone. After listening to the HTC One and comparing it to the iphone I honestly didn't find much difference, and yes I know the iphone is a single speaker versus the HTC, but I just didn't hear the difference with such a small degree of separation between the speakers. Honestly for a single speaker the iphone sounds pretty darn good IMO. Now compared to the GS3 or the Note 2, both the iphone and the One blow them away, in part because the speaker is put on the rear of the phone.

I still would like a bezel less device, with the speaker at the bottom of the phone like the iphone, no reason it can't be stereo either. That's just my preference though.

 

[dxyovak]

Course Nexus will have a smaller market share compared to the iPhone no doubt.

The numbers would be much better for Nexus if it was available on CDMA Sprint/Verizon

----------

Android may be better in terms of what the different brands offer in hardware but NOTHING beats the apps in iOS.

I have a Nexus 4 and a 7 and in my opinion, the hardware is nothing if the apps are half baked.

I think the strongest element of iPhones is the hardware. IMHO, Android hardware is its weakest link, especially when looking at Nexus 4 (pure android).

 

[Assault]

Incorrect. I work for the government and we have software that allows us to turn off features like the camera on iOS devices. We have been using iOS for a few years now due to it being more secure than android.

Not going to go any further on this, and neither should you, but there hasn't been a single approved DoD regulation for an iDevice to be utilized on a secure network. Nor has Apple given DoD approval to modify or delete any of its code.
As I stated previously, this does not exclude an iDevice from being used on a secure network or from having a command make an exception for a SCIF level area. What you will not ever see, until Apple changes its stance, are iDevices approved by DoD for use in secured areas on any facility. Security regulations are very clear on this. Take it from someone who has been around for a long time.
Of course, on the flip side, I can say that any phone, tablet, computer, smart watch, DVD or any other media recording device can reach exclusion level by commands and security managers. This does not mean said device meets DoD guidelines.

 

[Assault]

The numbers would be much better for Nexus if it was available on CDMA Sprint/Verizon

----------



I think the strongest element of iPhones is the hardware. IMHO, Android hardware is its weakest link, especially when looking at Nexus 4 (pure android).

Really? Hardware specs on flagship phones are always better than what Apple offers. And considering Apple used cheap aluminum to build the majority of the iPhone5, allowing the surface to be daily dented, scratched and the chassis to bend, I would say the hardware found on the iPhone is sub par.

 

[Technarchy]

The numbers would be much better for Nexus if it was available on CDMA Sprint/Verizon

Yeah, after the Nexus S 4G and Galaxy Nexus nightmares, Google has a good reason for not dicking around with CDMA carriers.

 

[InuNacho]

I have an S2 and it does a damn fine job at what I want it to do, which is most everything an iPhone can't do. It isn't without it's flaws though especially with it's multistep process to get the damn thing to hook up, sync, and play media off the phone.

I can't say Android is better in any way than my iPhone 4S or even my iPad Mini.

Obviously the apps in iOS kick what is on the Play store to the curb for the most part. There are a handful of apps that I have on my Nexus 4 that are the same tablet versions that I get on my Mini but for the most part, they are just scaled up phone versions.

The battery life on my Nexus 7 is the wosrt of any device that I have ever owned. Just sitting there tonight doing NOTHING with it at my job, it dropped 20% in 6 hours. Yes, that;s right, the Nexus 7 lost 20% battery life just sitting there doing nothing. I used my iPad Mini tonight and after 6 hours at my job, the battery life was at 98%.

I'm really thinking of selling both my Nexus 7 32GB cellular version and my 16GB Nexus 4. I gave them each four months and not sure I am thrilled with the Android side of things.

I completely agree with the droid tablets, I've used them before and to me they just don't feel right and I know what you mean by upscaled phone apps. I'll be getting a Mini whenever the 2 comes out.