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beg_ne

macrumors 6502
Jul 3, 2003
452
0
I'm talking about your response to Cassie where you make belief he meant that he didn't liked things "going mobile", where that obviously wasn't the point. It could only have been a point if the iPhone somehow were a first-to-market. Which they obviously aren't. On the contrary. They're pretty much dead last and not even fully featured.

Could it be that Cassie by any chance were talking about the, well, "closed ecosystem" or the limitations imposed on the users, and not liking THAT direction, and it having nothing to do with "the future is going mobile"?

Hmm, now, that's food for thought, huh?

No.

I'm as guilty as anyone as originally misinterpreting Cassie's post. After going back at looking at the context in which she replied to I'm pretty sure it's an issue of the computer portion of Apple being neglected do to iPhones/iPods.

Unless Cassie would like to clarify her post that is.
 

SkyBell

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2006
6,606
226
Texas, unfortunately.
Yes, I suppose I should have been a little more clear on my thoughts.

I agree with the people that say Macs have taken a backseat to the iPhone, and I'm disappointed that Apple has taken such a route.
 

brad.c

macrumors 68020
Aug 23, 2004
2,053
1
50.813669°, -2.474796°
I agree with the people that say Macs have taken a backseat to the iPhone, and I'm disappointed that Apple has taken such a route.
The marketing machine certainly has been consumer appliance focused for the last few years. The glory years for Mac underdog Geekdom seem to have passed. As declared PPC fangirl, I think you might agree, Cassie. :)
 

beg_ne

macrumors 6502
Jul 3, 2003
452
0
Yes, I suppose I should have been a little more clear on my thoughts.

I agree with the people that say Macs have taken a backseat to the iPhone, and I'm disappointed that Apple has taken such a route.

In hindsight has it been so bad though? I know there was a while where we didn't see hardly any hardware updates. But recently we've had the whole lineup refreshed, and IMO the best MacBooks so far have been the new unibody ones.

I think the iPhone overall has been a very good thing for the company and quite a few things we see on the Mac come directly from Apple's work on the iPhone.

Leopard for instance got CoreAnimation directly from the work that Apple did for the iPhone, and probably other things I'm forgetting now.

I personally believe that the whole focus on stability, efficiency and resource / size reduction in Snow Leopard comes directly from Apple's experience with having to do more with less on the iPhone.

We can also thank the iPhone for the new multi-touch trackpads.

It is also my hope that the frameworks will get updated on OS X to behave more like they do on iPhone since they tend to be more modern and a bit more efficient than doing it the old way.

Depending on if we see an updated UI in Snow Leopard it will probably take some clues from the iPhone.

Apple has a vested interest in keeping up their Mac business (other than the ton of money they make every quarter from it) which is the fact that the Mac is the platform where they and all the other developers create their iPhone apps.
 

followme

macrumors regular
Feb 16, 2009
101
0
Japan
Yes, I suppose I should have been a little more clear on my thoughts.

I agree with the people that say Macs have taken a backseat to the iPhone, and I'm disappointed that Apple has taken such a route.

I don't care in the least about the iPhone. I hear iPhone news and I just tune it out.

I'm sorry, but I've never been into this whole craze about trying to make the computing experience so portable. I don't want to work on a tiny screen, PERIOD.

iPhone? Don't care.
 

SkyBell

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2006
6,606
226
Texas, unfortunately.
In hindsight has it been so bad though? I know there was a while where we didn't see hardly any hardware updates. But recently we've had the whole lineup refreshed, and IMO the best MacBooks so far have been the new unibody ones.

I think the iPhone overall has been a very good thing for the company and quite a few things we see on the Mac come directly from Apple's work on the iPhone.

Leopard for instance got CoreAnimation directly from the work that Apple did for the iPhone, and probably other things I'm forgetting now.

I personally believe that the whole focus on stability, efficiency and resource / size reduction in Snow Leopard comes directly from Apple's experience with having to do more with less on the iPhone.

We can also thank the iPhone for the new multi-touch trackpads.

It is also my hope that the frameworks will get updated on OS X to behave more like they do on iPhone since they tend to be more modern and a bit more efficient than doing it the old way.

Depending on if we see an updated UI in Snow Leopard it will probably take some clues from the iPhone.

Apple has a vested interest in keeping up their Mac business (other than the ton of money they make every quarter from it) which is the fact that the Mac is the platform where they and all the other developers create their iPhone apps.
You're right about the iPhone having a positive influence on how Apple designs OS X these days, and that's great. I love OS X, it's great OS. My issue is with the hardware, and the way it's built/priced.
Yeah, I definitely feel Apple's good days are behind them in terms of the Macintosh stability and build quality. G4 was Apple's best lineup.
Agreed 100%. Those really were the golden days, IMO.
 

Superdelphinus

macrumors regular
Feb 27, 2008
121
0
Am i the only one that found the unibody macbooks a bit depressing aesthetically? With the white macbooks no other computing company in the world could have made it - the aluminium ones could have been made by absolutely anybody in terms of how they look
 

Insulin Junkie

macrumors 65816
May 5, 2008
1,184
0
Mainland Europe
With the white macbooks no other computing company in the world could have made it - the aluminium ones could have been made by absolutely anybody in terms of how they look

Google image search 'white notebook', then come back and tell me how original having a white notebook makes you nowadays, nevermind if apple were the first to introduce it, it isn't new anymore.

Any company could / does make the unibody enclosure?
 

dmmcintyre3

macrumors 68020
Mar 4, 2007
2,131
3
Yeah, I definitely feel Apple's good days are behind them in terms of the Macintosh stability and build quality. G4 was Apple's best lineup.

Yes the G4 was Apple's best lineup with the exception of the Mac Pro (price aside then G4 was better)

Remember:
iMac G4 (movable screen rotates 180º, tilts back and fourth and moves up and down) (would make a nice external monitor or Mac Mini housing)
12 inch PB (firewire AND dedicated GPU in a sub 13 inch form factor) (still no intel equivalent) (only wish the screen was better resolution)
PB Titanium (hinge issues aside) (1 inch thick in 2001:eek:)
17 inch PB (the first to market and 1 inch thick in 2003)
Cheap PowerMacs

Every time since the G3 that Apple introduced a new processor it was significantly faster than Intel/AMD's top end offering. The G5 not being able to go in a laptop was about the only thing bad about the PPC era. But I still want an old style MBP. I like my PB design better than the unibody with the black keyboard and 10x glare boost screen coverings:D

Decent intel offerings:
Old style MBP
Mac Pro (if it was cheaper)
white 9400m MacBook (also happens to be the cheapest) (if aluminum it would make a nice 12 inch PB replacement)
Mac Mini (good second computer or desktop for people who need mobile power but have a MBP)

Nothing as good as the G4 era except carryovers from PPC G4 and the current white MacBook.

I wish I was a Mac user in the G4 era and G5 PowerMac (but G5 was ONLY in the PowerMac)
 

NoSmokingBandit

macrumors 68000
Apr 13, 2008
1,579
3
iMac G4 (movable screen rotates 180º, tilts back and fourth and moves up and down) (would make a nice external monitor or Mac Mini housing)

The G4 iMac is the best looking mac ever made, imo. I absolutely love it. If i could afford it i would buy a Mini and cram it into the base a G4 iMac. They looked so futuristic at the time (and still do compared to the current imacs).
 

Superdelphinus

macrumors regular
Feb 27, 2008
121
0
Google image search 'white notebook', then come back and tell me how original having a white notebook makes you nowadays, nevermind if apple were the first to introduce it, it isn't new anymore.

Any company could / does make the unibody enclosure?

you've missed my point.

white macbooks are/ were instantly recognisable, design classics. The unibody ones could be anything at first glance - I was careful to say how they look, not how they're made
 

zap2

macrumors 604
Mar 8, 2005
7,252
8
Washington D.C
Yeah, I definitely feel Apple's good days are behind them in terms of the Macintosh stability and build quality. G4 was Apple's best lineup.

Thats a bold claim considering just how young Apple is!


I do think Intel switch was a good idea for Apple, PPC was just to slow(with the people who were working on it)
 

ordo1980

macrumors member
Aug 28, 2007
92
0
Pittsburgh, PA
my 2 pennies...

Hey guys, long time no post. I'm going to law school this fall and am in the market for a new laptop. So these are my thoughts, it's rather long, so I hope you'll bear with me...

For me, it's not a matter of liking or disliking apple. The issue for me as a soon-to-be-buyer is... how much is it worth? Right now I am typing on an older hp pavilion laptop I've owned since about 2004. The only hardware problem I've ever had was the power port where the ac jack plugs in... had to have it fixed 2 years ago, and it's going right now as we speak, so luckily, I'll be getting a new laptop soon. Let me be the first to say, OS X is amazing. My dad actually bought a blackbook at my encouragement, when leopard first came out. He loves it. My best friend has a white macbook, loves it. I'd love to buy the unibody macbook, but when I consider that I'll need a laptop for 3 years, it's just pretty tough to justify the cost of the macs. For example, even the low-end unibody is 1300... with a tiny 160gb HDD and no backlit keyboard. That's just kind of ridiculous, am I not the only one who feels this way? Now look at this computer ... http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9022979&type=product&id=1218009474848 ... great battery life a la macbook, bigger hdd, 4gigs ram, a bit faster processor, bluetooth, wireless n, and backlit keyboard... and 2yr manufacturer warranty. And that's just one example, but a fairly close one for my purpose here. And that's 800. Now, I ABSOLUTELY am willing to pay a premium for getting to use OS X, but not a $500 premium. That's just outrageous. Of course I'll be waiting until the end of june to buy anything, that's probably when windows 7 free upgrade certificates will be available with all new windows computer purchases.

Moving on to the OS issues, as I've said, I openly admit that OS X is the superior operating system over vista, and I am willing to pay a premium for that luxury. But at the same time, I've used windows going back to version 3.1... so I know my way around that OS very well, so "problems" don't really intimidate me the way they might for a novice computer user who is "scared" of having to troubleshoot a hardware conflict or whatever the case may be. And in all honesty, I have XP on my laptop, and I've never had any catastrophic problems with it due to the OS.

Back when my power port broke a couple of years ago my computer just shut off while I was doing an update... so yeah, I had to do a full hdd recovery ... but that was mainly due to my computer screwing me, and not the OS. PS... I also loooove the magnet power jack apple uses, great invention, I bet macbooks never have powerport issues, as every other laptop gets those issues, not just HP. But really, to fix that powerport issue, it was really inexpensive, sub $100 repair I believe.

In any case, I guess my point is... windows computers, when you consider the price, they just aren't THAT bad, and macbooks aren't THAT good so as to command a $500 premium. Really, to get a comparable hdd size and backlit keyboard, the better comparison and most deserved one is to the $1600 macbook. So really, then, the premium is $800. I mean, seriously? Hell, even if that toshiba was totally shot after 2 years (and I see no reason why it would, as I said, even this "crap" HP is still kicking after 5 years, and it's workable, the port isn't totally dead, started slowly dying about 3 weeks ago, and I'm fairly certain that toshiba is better than HP), I could buy a new one (and updated I guess since it'd be 2 years later) and have owned two fairly decent computers for the price of a macbook. I just think that's sort of ridiculous, and while I'd LOVE to have a macbook, I simply can't justify the expense of one even though I could afford to buy one. And backups are a nonissue, plenty of space on my ipod classic to do backups.

A fundamental question arises, which is, why pay more than necessary, even if you have the money? I'm the consumer, and companies have to earn my dollars, bottom line. I go to one movie theater over another, why? Because the popcorn is better, or the sound is, or the picture, or the seating, etc., etc. Companies need to earn my business and justify the higher price they charge if that's the case. So then, does Apple do so with their macbooks? And I just have to conclude, much to my admitted discontent, that they don't. OS X is great, no doubt, I'd love to have a macbook and that operating system, but not for a 600-800 premium. By all accounts of the windows 7 testing, even that toshiba would be overpowered to run that operating system, so I don't want to, nor do I think it necessary for any of us here to debate the finepoints, especially with the lame commercials going back and forth recently between pc's and macs (you don't need 4gb ram for leopard, blah blah... well, from what people are saying, you don't need that much to run windows 7 either, so that issue becomes moot... it's vista that is bloated and hoggish), and it's not my intent to get into that line of a discussion.

I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say to be honest! lol. Bottom line, I don't dislike Apple at all, I think OS X is amazing. But the macbooks themselves are just overpriced in my opinion. The luxury of getting to use OS X just isn't worth twice the price of a hardware-wise comparable computer. I really don't want to have any fanboys going crazy over this post, and I'm trying to phrase this entire post as respectfully as I can. I would LOVE to get a macbook, but not if it's essentially twice the price of a comparable laptop (minus the OS... and yes, I realize the speakers suck on that toshiba... but I'm a law student. I need to write papers, and I have headphones and speakers of my own after all, and that toshiba is just an example, but it's definitely a laptop I'm considering buying when windows 7 certificates pop out next month, maybe by then it'll even get a price drop ... I know macbooks won't, sadly. :p)

So let's say windows OS costs $300, well, I'd pay that much of a price to "buy" myself out of windows, which means the macbook should really cost about 1100, not 1300 ... well, 1500 (for the model that feature-wise is analogous to the computer I linked to for my comparison). Alright, I hope we can keep having a friendly conversation. As I said, I'm in the market for a new laptop, and I'm always open to being convinced otherwise, I just haven't been able to convince myself over the past couple of weeks that a macbook really is worth all that cost... take it easy fellas!!

Mike
 

neiltc13

macrumors 68040
May 27, 2006
3,128
28
Now, I ABSOLUTELY am willing to pay a premium for getting to use OS X, but not a $500 premium.

To get the same sort of specs in a MacBook you need to pay $750 extra. I don't think the processor clock speed makes too much difference (so no need to go for the 2.4GHz model as you alluded to later in your post).

I bet macbooks never have powerport issues

Actually, they do. Here's some pictures. Just hope you're home when yours catches fire.

113017934_87273c61ef.jpg


macbook_batt_fire.jpg


magsafe_fire_01.jpg


the rest of your post

You keep mentioning that you think OS X is superior and that you would even pay a premium not to use Windows again. But it seems contradictory - early in the post you say Windows has never given you any problems. So can you describe any ways where OS X is superior?
 

drewsof07

macrumors 68020
Oct 30, 2006
2,018
445
Ohio
Thats a bold claim considering just how young Apple is!
I do think Intel switch was a good idea for Apple, PPC was just to slow(with the people who were working on it)

I've had 3 PPC G4 Macs and all have been rock solid. No problems and I could go weeks without restarting. And, apps hanging? Never seen it on my G4's. Seems that after the intel switch, I've encountered so many hardware/software/firmware problems it is defeating... Not to mention the frustration with getting service now that it seems as though EVERYONE owns a Mac.
I roll my eyes at anyone who has made a genius appointment because they didn't know how to restart their ipod. :rolleyes:
When there are those of us who have real problems that can't be fixed with the first page of the "troubleshooting" guide. :p
 

DoNoHarm

macrumors 65816
Oct 8, 2008
1,138
46
Maine

Dude, even in those pictures, you can see that there is all sorts of crap like dust particles that may or may not be conductive near the mag safe adapter. Something like your computer catching fire is so serious of a problem that unless lots of people have Macbooks that catch fire and are for some not reason not griping about them at all (unlikely based on the volume of "oh my f2 key is 2 degrees crooked" like posts) then there was probably some negligence on the part of the user that caused the fire. I have my macbook running 24/7 at 100% cpu load ever since I bought it. I'm having it's spare CPU time donated to the SETI @ home project. No flaming macbooks so far.....

EDIT: Even the floor of the house where those photos are taken look dirty....
 

JRob65a6

macrumors regular
May 5, 2009
107
0
Dude, even in those pictures, you can see that there is all sorts of crap like dust particles that may or may not be conductive near the mag safe adapter. Something like your computer catching fire is so serious of a problem that unless lots of people have Macbooks that catch fire and are for some not reason not griping about them at all (unlikely based on the volume of "oh my f2 key is 2 degrees crooked" like posts) then there was probably some negligence on the part of the user that caused the fire. I have my macbook running 24/7 at 100% cpu load ever since I bought it. I'm having it's spare CPU time donated to the SETI @ home project. No flaming macbooks so far.....

EDIT: Even the floor of the house where those photos are taken look dirty....



If he don't take care of his home what makes you think he took care of his computer. Sounds to me like someone scamming trying to make a dollar. I see only 1 computer that has happened to. Looks like pretty good odds to me.

If anything, such as some of the junk laying around, got between the power supply cord and the computer it would cause resistance which causes heat which would cause fire and the battery to explode. It had to be something to do with the power supply to cause that to happen to the battery. Especially when the computer was shut off. Batteries just don't explode all of the sudden. I work with batteries every day.
 
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