Anyone else doubting an iPP 2018 this year or June at Least?...

[spiderman0616]

If you think it's cherry picking, blame Apple. It's their webpage and their comparison summary.

In other words, even Apple believes those top 5 features are the most important when comparing iPad models. Not RAM, not quad speakers, etc.

1. Display size
2. Application processor
3. Camera quality
4. Apple Pencil
5. Keyboard compatibility

My point was, you picked a list that supported your opinion, but that doesn't mean the other features of the Pro don't exist. The kind of person who's thinking about spending the extra money on a Pro is going to know that list of extra features, or at least most of them. The kind of person who just wants an iPad they can draw and write on is going to grab a standard iPad.

Either way, Apple wins, and I kind of feel like I win too. I have long been a cheerleader for the iPad, and I want it to propagate out even more than it already has. I will probably always buy the iPad Pro models from this point forward, and there are others who never will. Choice is good.

 

[JPack]

My point was, you picked a list that supported your opinion, but that doesn't mean the other features of the Pro don't exist. The kind of person who's thinking about spending the extra money on a Pro is going to know that list of extra features, or at least most of them. The kind of person who just wants an iPad they can draw and write on is going to grab a standard iPad.

Either way, Apple wins, and I kind of feel like I win too. I have long been a cheerleader for the iPad, and I want it to propagate out even more than it already has. I will probably always buy the iPad Pro models from this point forward, and there are others who never will. Choice is good.

Once again, I did NOT pick the list. Visit the page yourself.

https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/

Apple could have included RAM in the Summary. They didn't. Apple could have included quad speakers in the Summary. They didn't.

In other words, Apple believes Pencil is a big selling point. It's part of their elevator speech.

I never claimed the iPad Pro doesn't have other features. The point is, most consumers don't care about those other features.

 

[Johnny365]

Most consumers are not blind and will look at reviews online and those outline the gap between iPad 2018 and iPad Pro features.

 

[JPack]

Students shelling out for the pro just means they had no choice because they wanted pencil. Now the iPad 2018 is out they can buy a more affordable option - Apple even launched it an an educationally focused event.
This makes me assume they aren’t targeting students with the more expensive pro, so wont care if they all buy the cheaper model.

If Apple weren't targeting students with iPad Pro, then they wasted a huge amount of dollars on a long and meaningless media campaign featuring a grade school child doing homework.

https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/films/

 

[spiderman0616]

Once again, I did NOT pick the list. Visit the page yourself.

https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/

Apple could have included RAM in the Summary. They didn't. Apple could have included quad speakers in the Summary. They didn't.

In other words, Apple believes Pencil is a big selling point. It's part of their elevator speech.

I never claimed the iPad Pro doesn't have other features. The point is, most consumers don't care about those other features.

1. You didn't pick the list that was placed on the page you got the list from, but you did specifically pick what list you would display in your post to prove your point. That's what I'm getting at.

2. Nobody is arguing whether or not Apple believes Pencil is a big selling point. It's a big selling point, and I love mine, so I say the more people who can afford to use one now, the better. The more people who use the Pencil, the more apps I'm going to get to use with mine, which is I'm sure the REAL motivation for Apple here. The Pencil deserves more hardware and software support than it gets just from the Pro user base.

3. You don't know what most consumers do or do not care about. It's not an all or none situation. There are billions of people out there who all want different things.

4. Apple puts what they need to put on web pages and ads to sell the product they need to sell. Their sales pitch for the base model iPad is going to be, "Look how great this is for the price and it even supports the Pencil!" Why would it be anything but that? On their iPad Pro pages you're going to see all kinds of stuff about how great the iPad Pro is. It's marketing.

5. Nobody, including Apple, expects the iPad Pro models to sell better than the non-Pro models. This is not a war that really needs to be fought. Most people will buy the base model whether it has Pencil support or not, and a fraction will buy the Pro model. That's going to be a constant no matter what.
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If Apple weren't targeting students with iPad Pro, then they wasted a huge amount of dollars on a long and meaningless media campaign featuring a grade school child doing homework.

https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/films/

View attachment 759110

This wasn't an education ad, it was a "look at all the stuff the Pro can do" ad. Just because a kid was in it doesn't mean they're marketing it toward school purchases. The iPad event in March was the "cheap iPads for education" ad.

 

[Frankfurt]

No need to over-complicate things. There are several groups of buyers:

• The actual "pro" user who knows about the difference of the two and will buy what suits his/her tasks the most regardless of the price tag => IPP
• The average user who always wants the "best" no matter if he/she really needs it => IPP
• The average user who is mostly price conscious => 2018 iPad
• The user who understands the difference and would be fine with the 2018 iPad but due to current discounts can suddenly afford the better performance of the IPP => IPP

There for sure is some cannibalization, but likely not much to be worried about from Apple's perspective.

 

[JPack]

1. You didn't pick the list that was placed on the page you got the list from, but you did specifically pick what list you would display in your post to prove your point. That's what I'm getting at.

Yeah, I took a screenshot from top of the Apple comparison webpage.
Then, I focused on the Summary table where Apple used size 48 font.

I took a screenshot of what Apple feels it is important for consumers to see. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

2. Nobody is arguing whether or not Apple believes Pencil is a big selling point. It's a big selling point, and I love mine, so I say the more people who can afford to use one now, the better. The more people who use the Pencil, the more apps I'm going to get to use with mine, which is I'm sure the REAL motivation for Apple here. The Pencil deserves more hardware and software support than it gets just from the Pro user base.

Great, we agree.

3. You don't know what most consumers do or do not care about. It's not an all or none situation. There are billions of people out there who all want different things.

Apple knows. And they probably know really well. They listed Pencil in their Summary list.

4. Apple puts what they need to put on web pages and ads to sell the product they need to sell. Their sales pitch for the base model iPad is going to be, "Look how great this is for the price and it even supports the Pencil!" Why would it be anything but that? On their iPad Pro pages you're going to see all kinds of stuff about how great the iPad Pro is. It's marketing.

Yes, it's marketing. Effective marketing teams like the one working at Apple draw from actual user preferences and survey data. This lets them target their marketing efforts. Marketing is not a shotgun approach. See #3. Marketing doesn't throw stuff on the wall to see what sticks.

5. Nobody, including Apple, expects the iPad Pro models to sell better than the non-Pro models. This is not a war that really needs to be fought. Most people will buy the base model whether it has Pencil support or not, and a fraction will buy the Pro model. That's going to be a constant no matter what.

Yes, and now more people are likely to buy the iPad (2018) now that it supports a major feature previously reserved for iPad Pro. Cannibalization in action.

This wasn't an education ad, it was a "look at all the stuff the Pro can do" ad. Just because a kid was in it doesn't mean they're marketing it toward school purchases. The iPad event in March was the "cheap iPads for education" ad.

A grade school kid doing only homework activities throughout the video. Ok. You don't think it was a pitch towards students.

Hint: A "look at all the stuff the Pro can do" ad would involve different actors, young, old, urban, rural, educational, creative, professional in the media campaign. This entire campaign was focused on a grade school kid doing homework.

 

[spiderman0616]

Yeah, I took a screenshot from top of the Apple comparison webpage.
Then, I focused on the Summary table where Apple used size 48 font.

I took a screenshot of what Apple feels it is important for consumers to see. I'm not sure what you're getting at.



Great, we agree.



Apple knows. And they probably know really well. They listed Pencil in their Summary list.



Yes, it's marketing. Effective marketing teams like the one working at Apple draw from actual user preferences and survey data. This lets them target their marketing efforts. Marketing is not a shotgun approach. See #3. Marketing doesn't throw stuff on the wall to see what sticks.



Yes, and now more people are likely to buy the iPad (2018) now that it supports a major feature previously reserved for iPad Pro. Cannibalization in action.



A grade school kid doing only homework activities throughout the video. Ok. You don't think it was a pitch towards students.

Hint: A "look at all the stuff the Pro can do" ad would involve different actors, young, old, urban, rural, educational, creative, professional in the media campaign. This entire campaign was focused on a grade school kid doing homework.

Yeah, signing a kid’s cast and reading comics are not homework activities. You’re cherry picking again.

 

[JPack]

Yeah, signing a kid’s cast and reading comics are not homework activities. You’re cherry picking again.

You're right. Unless the ad was 60 seconds of pure word processing, spell checking, and manipulating spreadsheets, it's not homework.

I'm looking at the campaign from a holistic perspective. You're pointing out exceptions. Who's cherry picking?

 

[spiderman0616]

You're right. Unless the ad was 60 seconds of pure word processing, spell checking, and manipulating spreadsheets, it's not homework.

I'm looking at the campaign from a holistic perspective. You're pointing out exceptions. Who's cherry picking?

Holistic is not defined as “only in ways that support my argument”.

 

[Falhófnir]

Agreed. Many people miss your key point.

iPad (2018) removed the huge price barrier between content consumption ($329) and content creation ($649). Prior to March 27, 2018, you had to pay double to get "Pro" features.

Apple has been marketing the iPad Pro to students and business users. Any of those consumers are now seriously looking at $329 instead of $649. Many of those users will gloss over the laminated screen and ProMotion stuff offered on the iPad Pro.

For half the purchase price, is the 9.7" iPad (2018) with A10 and Pencil support good enough as a notebook or iPad Pro replacement? Probably. That's cannibalization in action.

Though equally a lot of people who would have bought the $329 model either way might now shell out the extra $100 for the pencil, and a lot of people that would have gotten the 64gb iPad Pro at $649 might buy the 128gb iPad for $429 (still a significant saving for them). I guess at the end of the day that’s for the Apple execs to worry about!

 

[spiderman0616]

Though equally a lot of people who would have bought the $329 model either way might now shell out the extra $100 for the pencil, and a lot of people that would have gotten the 64gb iPad Pro at $649 might buy the 128gb iPad for $429 (still a significant saving for them). I guess at the end of the day that’s for the Apple execs to worry about!

Exactly. And as a big iPad fan, I like this too. More iPad owners is good for Apple and iPad users. I hope the Pencil starts selling like crazy because of the 2018 iPad and I think it will.

 

[Falhófnir]

Or those who say they'll keep their device for 5 years but end up upgrading after 1 year anyway?

On that note, my bank manager is so thankful for the keyboard issue on the new MacBook pros!

 

[TheRealAlex]

as much as I truly want an update pro with:

326-400 ppi
A11X
4K 60 FPS camera
Small Bezels
No home button
Face ID
New design
Bluetooth 5.0
Apple Pencil 2
Larger size screen or smaller footprint
Wicked processor speed
Etc, etc


Shouldn’t we have seen part leaks or some pictures or slight proof of an upgrade. If it’s as big as what many news outlets or rumors suggest... why no part leaks like the iPhone X had? That was supposed to be Apple’s big secret and it was blown within the first few months, but here we are with no news and a month and two weeks out from WWDC.

What say the rest of you.

100% NOT getting a new iPad Pro until the iPad Pro has 5G LTE. So 2019

 

[spiderman0616]

I got a little perspective on this over the weekend.

We were at a little league game, and the family sitting in front of us had a lot of Apple gear with them. They were clearly an "Apple family". The dad and his son were keeping track of balls and strikes and outs on their iPads with some app I didn't recognize, and he was teaching his son things about the game too, so I thought that was pretty cool. A couple of them had Apple Watches on, and they all had iPhones.

I'm always nosy about what people are using, so I was trying to see what exact stuff they had. The dad had an iPad 4 (I could tell because it was the old style with a lightning port), the kid had an old iPad mini 2 from what I could tell. The mom was on an iPhone 6S, the dad had a 7 Plus. And he was happily using his iPad 4 for the baseball app and a tray for his donut simultaneously.

This was a family clearly invested in the Apple ecosystem and happily using their Apple stuff for all kinds of different things. And NONE of them (from what I could tell) had the latest and greatest model of any of those products. They were probably what could be considered more "normal" Apple users who just use their stuff until it breaks or gets so old that it's slow.

And then I started thinking, "That guy doesn't seem to be getting any less enjoyment out of his iPad 4 than I do out of my 2017 iPad Pro."

So I'm going to try to keep that perspective when/if the Pros are upgraded this year. I REALLY want to upgrade my Apple Watch when the next gen comes out, and my wife is not going to put up with me upgrading my watch and then also upgrading my iPad Pro, so I have to pick my battles as far as new hardware this year. My large flat rectangle with a touch screen is still going to work just fine, even without the bells and whistles that will surely be on the new ones. 2019 will be my next upgrade year on the iPad Pro.

 

[Jonathantuba]

Hoping for June. Don't want an iPad with a home button after using my X

I think that is the main reason for iPad Pro update this year. There are now a lot of users with iPhone X who want Face ID and similar gestures on their iPad Pro. They will all be ready to update.

 

[mrklaw]

I got a little perspective on this over the weekend.

We were at a little league game, and the family sitting in front of us had a lot of Apple gear with them. They were clearly an "Apple family". The dad and his son were keeping track of balls and strikes and outs on their iPads with some app I didn't recognize, and he was teaching his son things about the game too, so I thought that was pretty cool. A couple of them had Apple Watches on, and they all had iPhones.

I'm always nosy about what people are using, so I was trying to see what exact stuff they had. The dad had an iPad 4 (I could tell because it was the old style with a lightning port), the kid had an old iPad mini 2 from what I could tell. The mom was on an iPhone 6S, the dad had a 7 Plus. And he was happily using his iPad 4 for the baseball app and a tray for his donut simultaneously.

This was a family clearly invested in the Apple ecosystem and happily using their Apple stuff for all kinds of different things. And NONE of them (from what I could tell) had the latest and greatest model of any of those products. They were probably what could be considered more "normal" Apple users who just use their stuff until it breaks or gets so old that it's slow.

And then I started thinking, "That guy doesn't seem to be getting any less enjoyment out of his iPad 4 than I do out of my 2017 iPad Pro."

So I'm going to try to keep that perspective when/if the Pros are upgraded this year. I REALLY want to upgrade my Apple Watch when the next gen comes out, and my wife is not going to put up with me upgrading my watch and then also upgrading my iPad Pro, so I have to pick my battles as far as new hardware this year. My large flat rectangle with a touch screen is still going to work just fine, even without the bells and whistles that will surely be on the new ones. 2019 will be my next upgrade year on the iPad Pro.

Keep telling yourself that

Only safe way to even try that is keep off places like this. Its like when I buy a new computer/TV/camera - forums/specialist sites are amazingly useful. Then run away because 5 seconds after you buy, it'll be old news

 

[jonnysods]

I think that is the main reason for iPad Pro update this year. There are now a lot of users with iPhone X who want Face ID and similar gestures on their iPad Pro. They will all be ready to update.

Its funny how tacky the home button sounds when I use my iPad mini 4. Yes, I'm a home button snob now!!

I wonder what they will do with the bezels. You have to hold it somewhere. But a reduction in foot print will help me justify the 12.9 instead of the 10.5. I want the big screen!

 

[spiderman0616]

Keep telling yourself that

Only safe way to even try that is keep off places like this. Its like when I buy a new computer/TV/camera - forums/specialist sites are amazingly useful. Then run away because 5 seconds after you buy, it'll be old news

There's that too--if I come here after they're launched and get involved in too many conversations, I will justify the purchase somehow. I just really need to not do that this year. I need to upgrade this series 0 Apple Watch and I only have the budget for one or the other this year.

 

[mrklaw]

There's that too--if I come here after they're launched and get involved in too many conversations, I will justify the purchase somehow. I just really need to not do that this year. I need to upgrade this series 0 Apple Watch and I only have the budget for one or the other this year.

FWIW, if they don't do a full redesign of the apple watch, the series 3 is great. I upgraded from a cheap refurb stainless steel 0, to an aluminium S3 and the battery life is way better and overall much more responsive.

I still really only use it as a basic activity tracker and notification triage though..

 

[spiderman0616]

FWIW, if they don't do a full redesign of the apple watch, the series 3 is great. I upgraded from a cheap refurb stainless steel 0, to an aluminium S3 and the battery life is way better and overall much more responsive.

I still really only use it as a basic activity tracker and notification triage though..

I have been stubbornly holding on to my series 0 because I know the watch is overdue for a redesign. It's probably my favorite Apple device, and still working fine (just a little slow). I have a bit of emotional attachment to it because it was the catalyst that finally helped me get my health back under control. But it is obviously much slower than the current models and doesn't have cellular or even GPS. I just don't want to replace it until there's a new design. But believe me, I have been tempted by the series 3 MULTIPLE times over the last year.

 

[jonblatho]

create iPad Pro X and iPad Pro X Plus

Absolutely not.

 

[sracer]

Keep telling yourself that

Only safe way to even try that is keep off places like this. Its like when I buy a new computer/TV/camera - forums/specialist sites are amazingly useful. Then run away because 5 seconds after you buy, it'll be old news

LOL That was true for me. But once one takes the red pill and breaks free from the grip of the hyperbole machine, it becomes safe to stay in places like this.

 

[Johnny365]

I can't imagine how an iPad Pro with Face ID would look like, when talking about the bezels. If they are like the edges on the sides of 10.5", that's crazy small and you wouldn't be able to hold it without obstructing your view.

 

[charlituna]

Yes I am doubting a iPP refresh this year.

i'm not. however I won't be shocked if it's in Sept/Oct to go with the other iOS devices.

as for what it will be. I hope, but don't count on

induction charging
OLED screen
larger storage (I'd love to see the top tier go up to 1TB or even 2TB)

face id would be cool but I don't need it

otherwise I wanna see several changes in the software. not a total copy of Mac OS but there are some things from Mac OS that they could tweak and include. like better restrictions. the Mac parental controls are pretty awesome could be adapted to iOS. plug ins would be another. why can't I download more templates for iMovie, Photos editing etc. why do keyboards have to have an app to be added. why can't ad blockers be system wide so they cover apps that use internal web browsers (like facebook does) and so on.
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I can't imagine how an iPad Pro with Face ID would look like, when talking about the bezels. If they are like the edges on the sides of 10.5", that's crazy small and you wouldn't be able to hold it without obstructing your view.

that's part of why i'm not jonesing for it to be added to THIS update necessarily. if they an figure out a way with minor bezels go for it. but if they don't then i'm not going to flip if it's still touch id.
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Keep normal iPad model as the "iPhone SE" of iPads.

make the iPad Mini compatible with the pencil the way they did with the 'air'. just have the two 'iPad' in the mini and air size and then the two 'pro' in the air and large size with the smart connector, perhaps an OLED screen etc.