Anyone else feel like they are forced to upgrade

[marcinsf]

Mine is a late 2016 touchbar MB Pro 15" - trash trash trash - actually trash may be too nice of an adjective.

- Whole circuit board shorted out at about a year old. Replace by Apple which completely wiped out my hard drive since now the hard drive is part of the motherboard - what a piece of crap. It took me 4-5 days to get it restored since Apple put on it the OLD operating system and my backup was from the latest OS.
- Battery has been replaced twice due to faulty charging and heavy use.
- Had to have the battery connector repaired as the solder joints were poorly done on manufacture.
- keyboard is trash - lots of repeats, missed keys and just sloppy engineering at best.

I'm truly torn on what to replace it with at this point.
I feel like Apple and Tim Cook have turned their back on their user community in pursuit of pure profit without regard to consequences. Kind of reminds me of the days when Steve Jobs left Apple. While he was gone, the brand tanked because of the same kind of management - profit over functionality and quality.

 

[Chester Stone]

I feel exactly this way.

Every year around this time, Apple releases an Xcode version that requires the latest macOS to run. Without it, you can't develop apps to support the latest iOS and macOS SDKs anymore. This messaging carries over to WWDC, where their engineers recommend app developers to support only up to two dot releases prior: so iOS 15.7 or whatever that last iOS 15.x was, and above. As a result, app developers like those behind Slack and Pastebot gradually stop supporting older macOS, and by extension, older MacBooks. Even some text editors are dropping old macOS support. (and by "old" I don't mean decades past, but macOS from two years ago -- Catalina last year, now Big Sur!)

My MacBook Pro 13" with Retina display -- with the best keyboard -- running macOS Sierra can't even log into Slack. It's ridiculous. Messaging apps and text editors should be the most barebones types of software, with no need to adopt the latest OS features. It's all a result of Apple's forced upgrade messaging.

 

[ninecows]

“Upgrade asap” … “faulty keyboard” etc…

Look people: as far as I can read from the OP the computer is still working. It’s currently being supported by apple and will probably do so for a few of years. If the OP can live with the keyboard (eg using an external), then there’s no pressing reason to upgrade and all the reason in the world to wait.

Apple is gonna do what they can to nudge people into upgrading more frequently so they can profit more, but if it’s workings adequately and is still supported you don’t need to.

Unless you believe inflation is gonna keep increasing compared to YOUR income, you have no advantage of upgrading now.

Put money aside so you’re ready to upgrade when you need to. Not before you actually need to. And not just because Apple is making you feel insecure.

If they have 7 years of support, update every 7th year. Updating more frequently is just you giving apple money for free - unless you really need extra processing power now or the machine is not working.

Another alternative is to buy new very frequently and sell the old while it’s still worth something. But you’re beyond that point.

 

[RinkDinkus]

Not feeling forced to upgrade at all, but I am thinking about how much life I can squeeze out of my device if I want to keep using MacOS. Got a 2014 MacBook Pro brand new when I went off to college and it’s still getting updates on Monterey, roughly 7 years of getting updates.

However, like I said before if I want to keep using macOS beyond the support window for Monterey I might have to see what my options are…Ventura ran like garbage on it but I would imagine it’s only going to get worse as the list of Intel machines get thinner and thinner in the update compatibility list.

Also I don’t know if you use Safari or another browser but as long as you aren’t visiting any suspicious sites you should be good. Hell, Chrome is still supporting 10.13 and that was out of the update cycle after 2019.

Just because the OS goes out of date doesn’t mean it’s entirely bad to use—you’ll just have to be a bit more cautious on the web. I would say as long as the browser is up to date and you also have some sort of antivirus too as a backup, you should be fine to keep using this machine.

 

[ricketysquire]

Mine is a late 2016 touchbar MB Pro 15" - trash trash trash - actually trash may be too nice of an adjective.

- Whole circuit board shorted out at about a year old. Replace by Apple which completely wiped out my hard drive since now the hard drive is part of the motherboard - what a piece of crap. It took me 4-5 days to get it restored since Apple put on it the OLD operating system and my backup was from the latest OS.
- Battery has been replaced twice due to faulty charging and heavy use.
- Had to have the battery connector repaired as the solder joints were poorly done on manufacture.
- keyboard is trash - lots of repeats, missed keys and just sloppy engineering at best.

I'm truly torn on what to replace it with at this point.
I feel like Apple and Tim Cook have turned their back on their user community in pursuit of pure profit without regard to consequences. Kind of reminds me of the days when Steve Jobs left Apple. While he was gone, the brand tanked because of the same kind of management - profit over functionality and quality.

I feel you man. Last week I got another screen replacement, there was this bright blob of pixels on the bottom of the screen on the dock. Had this issue previously. Just tried to open Photo Booth/Facetime on this Mac and it says that there's no camera connected. I suspect they forgot to plugin the camera or gave me a top case with a defective camera. So I get to go back to the Apple Store again. This is the 2nd time I've had to take a computer back after a repair has been done.

 

[ninecows]

I feel you man. Last week I got another screen replacement, there was this bright blob of pixels on the bottom of the screen on the dock. Had this issue previously. Just tried to open Photo Booth/Facetime on this Mac and it says that there's no camera connected. I suspect they forgot to plugin the camera or gave me a top case with a defective camera. So I get to go back to the Apple Store again. This is the 2nd time I've had to take a computer back after a repair has been done.

Ok. How does this work? (I’m from Europe and we don’t even have an Apple Store in my country, but we do have excellent consumer rights)

Are you PAYING for these repairs? My previous post assumes that you have a working computer (spare the annoying keyboard) and do not have any expense on it. Any nickel spent on this machine is wasted and better used on a new.

 

[antibolo]

I just have some concerns about running a third party patcher from a security perspective. I know OpenCore is completely open source, but maybe Im just paranoid.

But if the alternative is running an outdated version of macOS that’s not getting any security updates anymore, it’s really a no-brainer.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Apple isn’t forcing an upgrade, they are clear on the support for 5 years after last selling date of the model by Apple. That usually translates to 7-8 years. If you need longer support, buy others manufacturers who offer what you need.

 

[ricketysquire]

Ok. How does this work? (I’m from Europe and we don’t even have an Apple Store in my country, but we do have excellent consumer rights)

Are you PAYING for these repairs? My previous post assumes that you have a working computer (spare the annoying keyboard) and do not have any expense on it. Any nickel spent on this machine is wasted and better used on a new.

AppleCare+ but as mentioned it's like $139 a year. Through I go to the Store, so that means I have to make an appointment and drive there.

I know I can get a box shipped to my home and get it shipped back when it's repaired, I don't want to run the risk of it being stolen from my porch.I have an older MacBook Pro 2012 that I can use, as well as an 2020 iPad. I also have a desktop PC, but it's mainly used for occasional gaming.

I don't want to be *that* person that gets upset at the Apple Store, but this is starting to get ridiculous when they can't even do a repair properly. I just don't like the waste of time, and the way they treat me at the Apple Store. Last week when I took it in, I got a lecture about some scratches on the side of the top case. They were going to have to replace the top case anyways when they replace the screen since its one part for them. Like the scratch is on the side, just normal wear and tear. The pixel blob was on the bottom near the dock. I didn't want to say anything, I just wanted to get in and out.

Also just did an SMC/PRAM reset and I actually did a clean install before I brought it in last week. I did a clean install once I got it back as well. So I can be pretty sure it's a hardware issue as it was working last week. Im not looking forward to this visit.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Ok. How does this work? (I’m from Europe and we don’t even have an Apple Store in my country, but we do have excellent consumer rights)

Are you PAYING for these repairs? My previous post assumes that you have a working computer (spare the annoying keyboard) and do not have any expense on it. Any nickel spent on this machine is wasted and better used on a new.

If the computer is outside AC+ window. In the past Apple told me they cover repairs for 90 days. They won’t fix unrelated issues not related to repair or not caused by repair.

 

[Ethanmenzel]

Yes in a similar position. I have the maxed-out 2017 13-inch but with 512 and ever since the Apple silicon macs came out I’ve seen a downgrade in software updates making me want to upgrade.

I see it more on the iPhone where apple makes me upgrade even though I’m not ready to. I call it the apple plague. Apple tricks me into noticing something is wrong with my phone like battery, speed, features or it just being old so they can make money off of me upgrading.

Just give me what I originally ordered

 

[chrono1081]

Apple is way behind Windows in supporting computers long-term.

This isn't true, you're mixing computers and operating systems. Windows OS support is superior, but you're going to be hard pressed to find windows devices lasting anywhere near as long as Macs. (I used to work in IT deploying both Mac and Windows machines and Win machines realistically needed upgraded about every 3 years, Macs over double that).

 

[ninecows]

AppleCare+ but as mentioned it's like $139 a year. Through I go to the Store, so that means I have to make an appointment and drive there.

I know I can get a box shipped to my home and get it shipped back when it's repaired, I don't want to run the risk of it being stolen from my porch.I have an older MacBook Pro 2012 that I can use, as well as an 2020 iPad. I also have a desktop PC, but it's mainly used for occasional gaming.

I don't want to be *that* person that gets upset at the Apple Store, but this is starting to get ridiculous when they can't even do a repair properly. I just don't like the waste of time, and the way they treat me at the Apple Store. Last week when I took it in, I got a lecture about some scratches on the side of the top case. They were going to have to replace the top case anyways when they replace the screen since its one part for them. Like the scratch is on the side, just normal wear and tear. The pixel blob was on the bottom near the dock. I didn't want to say anything, I just wanted to get in and out.

Also just did an SMC/PRAM reset and I actually did a clean install before I brought it in last week. I did a clean install once I got it back as well. So I can be pretty sure it's a hardware issue as it was working last week. Im not looking forward to this visit.

Well… if I had *that* experience with apple products and Apple Store I wouldn’t be an apple user anymore. Luckily for Apple I don’t and we have owned 5 macs, 8 iPhones and 3 iPads without issues like that.

edit: We had one iPhone that after a year of use started to get hot and unresponsive. Returned it to the shop that replaced it with a new free of charge. And I had a pair of AirPods Pro that started crackling after 18 months and those were replaced free of charge under Apples program.

edit2: And I had never bought Apple Care (+). I think with the EU consumer law I'm already paying extra (higher price) since Apple has already taken into account that they risk having to repair and being held accountable for poor quality.

 

[OneBar]

Yup, they do now. They didn't used to, but that's changed with Win 11.

And all those Windows 10 machines will be out of support in 2025. Even the ones sold last fall that don't meet Win 11 requirements will be forced to upgrade (or pay extra for support).

They always have. You ever try to install XP on a Pentium 3 machine? It takes some trickery to do because it's not supposed to be done. There is always a point where software cannot be run on hardware because it's too new, requires too many resources, or uses an updated structure.

Win10 22H2 EoL and security updates cease in May next year. This is nothing new. Went though this with 8, 7, XP, etc. Win11 22H2 EoL and security updates ceases October 2025.

If you wish to remain secure, you have to update your devices at some kind of frequency. You can't remain on old tech that people have worked to find every exploit for and claim security.

 

[dwaltwhit]

Treat it like a car. Once the repair costs outweigh the trade in value, move on.

 

[ninecows]

Treat it like a car. Once the repair costs outweigh the trade in value, move on.

Yes… especially if you’re still paying 139$/year for having it (somewhat?) covered by apple care AND they start asking questions before repairing it. That’s just total ripoff.

Isn’t that like 10% of the price of a new 13” MBP? So you’ve basically payed for the machine >1.5 times by now and it’s failing… one would think that you should only pay it once.

I don’t understand why you’re accepting these terms in the US, but that’s off topic.

 

[ninecows]

I would consider changing the title to “does anybody else feel that I have been ripped off by Apple”

 

[ricketysquire]

Well… if I had *that* experience with apple products and Apple Store I wouldn’t be an apple user anymore. Luckily for Apple I don’t and we have owned 5 macs, 8 iPhones and 3 iPads without issues like that.

edit: We had one iPhone that after a year of use started to get hot and unresponsive. Returned it to the shop that replaced it with a new free of charge. And I had a pair of AirPods Pro that started crackling after 18 months and those were replaced free of charge under Apples program.

edit2: And I had never bought Apple Care (+). I think with the EU consumer law I'm already paying extra (higher price) since Apple has already taken into account that they risk having to repair and being held accountable for poor quality.

There are times when Im like ready to leave the Apple ecosystem, like when I purchased an iPhone 13 late last year and wanted to pick it up in the same store. They treated me like a criminal and asked if I and Im quoting them "had paid for it". I told them I got it on the Apple Card Installments and I've since paid off.

I've spent the bulk of my professional career working in enterprise software support, so I know how to treat customers,
as I've worked with ones whose company paid half a million for a piece of business critical software.

I just don't like being treated like im stupid or with disrespect. The Apple Store isn't close by, and the time it takes to back up my data, wipe the computer, and drive to the store for an appointment (that's always 10-15 min late) is a waste of my time. I know im a bit paranoid about security but I suffered through some identify theft a few years ago, so protecting my data and lowering my risk is really important to me.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Yes in a similar position. I have the maxed-out 2017 13-inch but with 512 and ever since the Apple silicon macs came out I’ve seen a downgrade in software updates making me want to upgrade.

I see it more on the iPhone where apple makes me upgrade even though I’m not ready to. I call it the apple plague. Apple tricks me into noticing something is wrong with my phone like battery, speed, features or it just being old so they can make money off of me upgrading.

Just give me what I originally ordered.

This is one of the dumbest comments I have seen here. Apple keeps improving its products every year, so your tech appears relatively slower than the latest tech. Apple sold you exactly the 2017 machine;, which you originally ordered. Relatively, your computer is old with apple releasing faster Apple silicon. Don't expect your computer to perform as fast as an Apple silicon machine with 5-6 years of progress.
I run a 2014 MacBook Pro as a shared home computer for media/files and am still getting security updates. It is slower than my m1 max but works well for other purposes. Apple never promised me that my 2014 Macbook pro would be the fastest nor will have all the latest features 5-6 years later. I have used my laptops as the primary device for 4-5 years, then upgraded as needed. The older computer is a media/file server or shared home computer.

Like iPhone, I had 7 Plus for 5.5 years until I upgraded to 12/13 PM. I changed the batteries twice on 7+ and appreciated that Apple was improving the phones yearly, though my phone wasn't the fastest or appeared slow. When I upgraded, the new phone was nothing like 7+. Yes, batteries wear off for 20-30 months. Expect to change them on the phones after a couple of years.

 

[Timpetus]

Interestingly, I feel no need to update from my 2016 15" MBP. I got my keyboard replaced when I paid for the out of warranty battery replacement last year. It was working fine except a couple sticky keys, but that was my fault - spilled a drink on it. Now the keyboard works perfectly, and it all functions basically like new. I usually get 10+ years out of each of my Apple laptops, hard to beat that.

 

[walnuts]

Looking at the comments, it makes me think about the life of software in general. Somewhere, we made the leap from "your computer is worthwhile until the hardware is incapable of running current software" (meaning you would be "wowed" by actual tangible new things a newer computer could do, both hardware and software) to "your computer will need to be replaced within x years to do generally the same things even if the hardware still works".

Now, I'm not saying that newer computers can't do newer things. I also understand that platforms progress, and the software on it progresses, and it's uneconomical for platforms and developers to indefinitely support older computers. But, if you are a "light" computer user (email, internet, word processing, etc.) aside from perhaps a UI refresh, a current computer essentially works just as well/the same as a 5/10 year old computer.

From the OP's perspective, while the hardware on their computer continues to work reasonably well, for reasons outside of their control/ownership, their computer is nearing the end of its life, and they will need to buy a new computer to essentially do what their old computer did 5 years ago. That IS frustrating, all of the technical reasons aside.

(the keyboard is a red herring here... no one would buy one today, but it still works for the OP, so good for them. They shouldn't need a new computer because others like theirs failed too early.)

 

[MallardDuck]

Your MBP will likely be fully supported by OpenCore Legacy Patcher for a good few years after Apple drops official support. If you're still happy with your machine there is no need to throw it away just yet.

While I understand open core, and the desire to use it, it's not remotely "supported" in the same sense. Part of how they get it to work is to remove security features that require new hardware capabilities, and that's not a good thing. And there can be a lag between when Apple releases new code and when Open Core gets it to work - that window is high-risk for critical vulnerabilities. If you have no other choice, well, go into it with your eyes open that there is risk to doing it (and then don't complain when something doesn't work). In particular with the generations being dropped now, they had substantial changes in hardware features - I'm waiting for the 'must have a T2' cutoff for example, which I'm not sure how Open Core can work around.

There is a price to technology, and it requires ongoing investment to keep current and safe. Yes, there's a cynical view that companies do this deliberately to force upgrades. but that's not the case - bugs are inherent in software development. Once Apple stopped charging for OS's, this was bound to happen - the funding for OS development extends only for the depreciable life of the hardware investment. I know there's people who want legislation to force companies to support devices for a statutory period of time, but that will simply drive up the cost of the devices to begin with (that work has to be funded).

In any case, when apple stops producing intel OS's there's a hard-drop-dead date for intel machines - after that, even open core is toast. What's interesting though, is that since we're not seeing the same kind of hardware feature changes (at least so far), Mx based machines may actually have a substantially longer supported lifespan.

 

[ricketysquire]

Looking at the comments, it makes me think about the life of software in general. Somewhere, we made the leap from "your computer is worthwhile until the hardware is incapable of running current software" (meaning you would be "wowed" by actual tangible new things a newer computer could do, both hardware and software) to "your computer will need to be replaced within x years to do generally the same things even if the hardware still works".

Now, I'm not saying that newer computers can't do newer things. I also understand that platforms progress, and the software on it progresses, and it's uneconomical for platforms and developers to indefinitely support older computers. But, if you are a "light" computer user (email, internet, word processing, etc.) aside from perhaps a UI refresh, a current computer essentially works just as well/the same as a 5/10 year old computer.

From the OP's perspective, while the hardware on their computer continues to work reasonably well, for reasons outside of their control/ownership, their computer is nearing the end of its life, and they will need to buy a new computer to essentially do what their old computer did 5 years ago. That IS frustrating, all of the technical reasons aside.

(the keyboard is a red herring here... no one would buy one today, but it still works for the OP, so good for them. They shouldn't need a new computer because others like theirs failed too early.)

Honestly there’s no reason why an intel 4c/8t processor with 16 gb of ram shouldn’t be able to run a modern OS for basic needs. It really feels like Apple is in a rush to stop supporting Intel based devices.

 

[walnuts]

This is one of the dumbest comments I have seen here. Apple keeps improving its products every year, so your tech appears relatively slower than the latest tech. Apple sold you exactly the 2017 machine;, which you originally ordered. Relatively, your computer is old with apple releasing faster Apple silicon. Don't expect your computer to perform as fast as an Apple silicon machine with 5-6 years of progress.
I run a 2014 MacBook Pro as a shared home computer for media/files and am still getting security updates. It is slower than my m1 max but works well for other purposes. Apple never promised me that my 2014 Macbook pro would be the fastest nor will have all the latest features 5-6 years later. I have used my laptops as the primary device for 4-5 years, then upgraded as needed. The older computer is a media/file server or shared home computer.

Like iPhone, I had 7 Plus for 5.5 years until I upgraded to 12/13 PM. I changed the batteries twice on 7+ and appreciated that Apple was improving the phones yearly, though my phone wasn't the fastest or appeared slow. When I upgraded, the new phone was nothing like 7+. Yes, batteries wear off for 20-30 months. Expect to change them on the phones after a couple of years.

With respect, I don't think this comment is dumb. Apple devices, and particularly the mobile ones, represent a careful calibration of hardware and software to work the best. For example, iOS 16 is designed to work best with the iPhone 14 family. Apple engineers spent a considerable amount of time and effort tooling and optimizing iOS 16 to make the iPhone 14 shine its best. When iOS 17 comes out, they will make the same effort for the iPhone 15 family, and somewhat less of an effort made for the iPhone 14 family. As the difference between OS and hardware gets larger, it gets harder and harder to justify the effort to tweak the OS to make older hardware work as well (especially has the newer hardware gets more speed, different architecture, newer features, etc.). Eventually it's not even worth it to make the newest OS compatible with older hardware. But part of that trade off is that your older device will run slower on the new OS, both because the new OS has more hardware-expensive features AND because the OS isn't AS finely tuned for the older hardware.

(Fwiw I don't think the tuning makes THAT big of a difference, but its probably fair to say that it is less good than the day you bought it.)

 

[ZircoBen]

This isn't true, you're mixing computers and operating systems. Windows OS support is superior, but you're going to be hard pressed to find windows devices lasting anywhere near as long as Macs. (I used to work in IT deploying both Mac and Windows machines and Win machines realistically needed upgraded about every 3 years, Macs over double that).

You're mentioning "better devices" on a post where the OP mentioned needing to replace their keyboard every year.

All I brought up is that Microsoft actually updates their computers long term, while Apple leaves computers in the dark well before the hardware is used up. I think that's relatively undisputed.