Anyone else feel like they are forced to upgrade

[walnuts]

What are you talking about? I have iPhone 11, 13 mini, 13 pro, and 13 Pro max in my household. None of these devices run slower or worse on Ios16 than ios15. My mom uses an SE 2nd gen; she has no problems with ios 16. I am not surprised Apple adds new features and software to support the new hardware on the latest phones.
When I upgrade my 13 Pm to probably iPhone 17 or iPhone 18, I will get a lot more than being in a rut and stagnant for years worrying about legacy.

It is more of a mindset of wanting the greatest and latest every year and feeling like the iPhone 11 and iPhone 14 should be the same. I used my iPhone 7+ for five and half years and changed the battery twice; yes, the phone looked slower than the latest models, but it did its work. Apple never forced me to upgrade.

Sure- as I said, the tooling can be subtle, and would likely be particularly subtle between say for example, iPhones that have been on the same processor architecture for years, versus Macs where Apple is clearly focusing on MacOS for Arm vs intel. I would guess that older phones and iPads will be supported (well) much longer (compared to their sold date) than Intel Macs sold near the Arm transition.

For example, from my experience, my 13 mini's battery life was immediately worse on iOS 16- not enough for me to get rid of the phone by any means, but noticeable. I'm not surprised that Apple's biggest focus in iOS 16 was not battery performance for the Mini (that sadly, they may never make again) and, while I don't love it, I don't expect them to make much of an effort there moving forward.

And I'm not arguing Apple is forcing an upgrade- quite the opposite. I'm saying that its not a matter of Apple purposely, actively making things worse for older devices, its a matter of Apple making an active effort to keep devices working well as they upgrade OSes, and naturally investing less and less as the time between hardware and software releases gets longer.

 

[ricketysquire]

Yet another update: I feel like Im turning this thread into my crappy Genius Bar experience. I got a call/voicemail from them (I was in a meeting) and they said they want to attempt an OS reinstall. So when I turned in the computer last week, I wiped and did a clean install. When I got the computer back, I did a clean install and restored my data. I noticed the issue then. A day before my Genius Bar appointment, I did another wipe and clean install, and confirmed the issue was still occurring. I do the wipes as precaution and also to confirm its not software related

So literally this issue has persisted between multiple reinstalls and I can confirm it was working before hand as I was using the camera for interviews and virtual doctor visits.

Im livid at this point, I don't have time or energy to deal with Apple support.

 

[gsurf123]

Is this level of support really the best? Windows 10 support will last until October 14, 2025; and computers built in 2010 can still run Windows 10 comfortably.

Apple is way behind Windows in supporting computers long-term.

Might regroup on that statement. No-one will be using a 15 year old Windows computer in 2025 or even a 10 Windows year old computer for anything other than collecting dust. MS has moved on to Windows 11 and has left many computers out of the upgrade party for lack of specific hardware. This is very bad if your computer is and all-in-one or a notebook as there is no way to fix it. People who build their own computers can work around this if they are willing to buy a new motherboard which is the equivalent of buying a new computer.

 

[ricketysquire]

It took me over an hour to follow up with Apple. It took multiple calls directly to the store, 3 times they either hung up on me or dropped the call after 3 to 5 minutes. I called support twice, I had to tell the Apple Care rep I needed to talk to a manager and then finally she was able to transfer me to the store (the first rep didn't/wasn't able to). They were completely unhelpful and I told them they can wipe it but I've literally wiped it twice and confirmed that the issue was occurring.

Tell me this MacRumors community: Why should I "reward" Apple with a purchase if this is how they support their customers?

 

[ZircoBen]

Might regroup on that statement. No-one will be using a 15 year old Windows computer in 2025 or even a 10 Windows year old computer for anything other than collecting dust. MS has moved on to Windows 11 and has left many computers out of the upgrade party for lack of specific hardware. This is very bad if your computer is and all-in-one or a notebook as there is no way to fix it. People who build their own computers can work around this if they are willing to buy a new motherboard which is the equivalent of buying a new computer.

I know plenty of people that keep around their computers for 10+ years; especially desktops. I don’t know in what world people are upgrading their computers every five years to keep up with Apple’s upgrade cycle outside of the very people that are on MacRumors.

I set up my folks on a Haswell i5 desktop (2013 era) with an SSD and it still runs beautifully for them. No need to upgrade, especially as the device still gets support from Microsoft for three more years.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Supposedly there's was/is a class action lawsuit and some money is supposed to be distributed to owners of these models.



I know, I've had older and newer Macbook Pros without any issues. Im typing from a 2012 MacBook Pro, that literally suffered through being dropped and getting water damage and its still working to this day. I also have a work 2019 16 inch MacBook Pro that belong to my employer and that one has a far better keyboard. Of course, its only used for work as I don't want to have files on there that I lose access to if I ever lose my job.

Im just tired of the subpar Genius Bar experience Ive gotten. Im treated like im stupid, repairs aren't done properly or introduce new problems, and on top of it all they can't even bother to start the appointments on time and Im waiting over 30 minutes in some instances. Like if I show up before 10 minutes for my appointment, I have to wait before I can check in but its fine for them to waste my mornings and afternoons.



I guess its too late now, I dropped it off yesterday morning, supposedly they said they had the part in stock and it would be done same day, but I guess not. I should reach out and contact them but I suspect it’s a waste of my time. Left a message on the feedback page.

If you can’t get Apple Store guys fix, customer care manager has lot more leverage. I had issues with a max mini back in the day, 3 repairs later they sent me new one, bunch of apple T shirts, coffee thermos, and other stuff.
Apple Store is hit and miss these days, just pick up the phone and ask for a customer care manager.

 

[TechnoMonk]

It took me over an hour to follow up with Apple. It took multiple calls directly to the store, 3 times they either hung up on me or dropped the call after 3 to 5 minutes. I called support twice, I had to tell the Apple Care rep I needed to talk to a manager and then finally she was able to transfer me to the store (the first rep didn't/wasn't able to). They were completely unhelpful and I told them they can wipe it but I've literally wiped it twice and confirmed that the issue was occurring.

Tell me this MacRumors community: Why should I "reward" Apple with a purchase if this is how they support their customers?

My experience is exactly opposite to yours. Even when they messed up, they came through in the end. I am surprised you have apple care for 5 years. I don’t use apple care beyond 3 years.

 

[ricketysquire]

My experience is exactly opposite to yours. Even when they messed up, they came through in the end. I am surprised you have apple care for 5 years. I don’t use apple care beyond 3 years.

I decided to continue paying for AppleCare due to the quality of keyboard and the high cost of an out of warranty repair. I didn't feel the need to immediately upgrade once the warranty had ended.

If you can’t get Apple Store guys fix, customer care manager has lot more leverage. I had issues with a max mini back in the day, 3 repairs later they sent me new one, bunch of apple T shirts, coffee thermos, and other stuff.
Apple Store is hit and miss these days, just pick up the phone and ask for a customer care manager.

Not sure how to reach one, when I asked for a manager yesterday they transferred me to the store, which at least I was finally able to get in touch with one. I haven't gotten an update yet. I've left Feedback on the Apple feedback page, I've filled out 2 different surveys about my support experience. Its almost like they just don't care. I guess I get a perpetually defective computer with a nonfunctioning camera then. One that will most likely lose OS support on the next release.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I decided to continue paying for AppleCare due to the quality of keyboard and the high cost of an out of warranty repair. I didn't feel the need to immediately upgrade once the warranty had ended.


Not sure how to reach one, when I asked for a manager yesterday they transferred me to the store, which at least I was finally able to get in touch with one. I haven't gotten an update yet. I've left Feedback on the Apple feedback page, I've filled out 2 different surveys about my support experience. It’s almost like they just don't care. I guess I get a perpetually defective computer with a nonfunctioning camera then. One that will most likely lose OS support on the next release.

Since you already went back to store, they are handling it, and probably why you were transferred back to store.Filling out feedback forms isn’t gonna get you required help. If this happens call the apple support number with case ID and ask for manager and replacement of the laptop. Email Tim Cook, you won’t get a response but he may forward it to some one.

 

[ricketysquire]

Since you already went back to store, they are handling it, and probably why you were transferred back to store.Filling out feedback forms isn’t gonna get you required help. If this happens call the apple support number with case ID and ask for manager and replacement of the laptop. Email Tim Cook, you won’t get a response but he may forward it to some one.

Yeah I’ll probably need to call them again and ask for a manager, the case status hasn’t changed. And I’m not in the mood with spending an hour+ trying to get ahold of someone at the store.

 

[iphonehype]

Nope my 13inch 2020 i5 is fine I only upgraded because I'm giving my 13inch m1 back to my company and cannot live without the Apple Silicon chip!

 

[GalileoSeven]

It all boils down to your use case(s) and preferences.

For me, when my 5K Retina iMac (mid 2015) finally reached obsolescence, I decided to turn it into a home media server (as I have a brother who did the same thing with his) and get a little more mobile - using a laptop as a desktop replacement at home and then just unplugging it when I wanted to take it out.

Unfortunately my 11" MBA (mid 2013) couldn't support the full 4K my monitor (Dell S2721QS) does and for me, that was a deal-breaker, so I went and bought an M2 MBA at launch.

Now on the flipside, my wife - who, aside from the occasional video chat, is a very casual user - gets by just fine on my Mac Mini (even older, dates to 2010-11).

 

[ricketysquire]

Since you already went back to store, they are handling it, and probably why you were transferred back to store.Filling out feedback forms isn’t gonna get you required help. If this happens call the apple support number with case ID and ask for manager and replacement of the laptop. Email Tim Cook, you won’t get a response but he may forward it to some one.

So what happened was that the store didn't get my original approval to do a reinstall on Thursday. Yeah I spent an hour+ trying to reach some yet, they didn't bother to even take note of my call. I found this out when I called back Friday. I once again reiterated my disappointment and once again gave them approval. The person I spoke to on Friday, they said get on it immediately and provide an update in a few hours. This was Friday around 4 PM. I didn't get a call back until Sunday around 4:30ish.

They told me that they need to replace the logic board, and another screen. I again, reiterated my disappointment, and the constant repairs on this computer had been through. I told them I didn't want to keep getting a computer that needed constantly repaired and its not an acceptable solution. They potentially brought up a new machine to replace it, but they said they needed to do this repair first. My concern is another month to 6 months, Ill have another stuck key or something else, and we'll need to go through this process again. Another hour+ at the Apple Store, another set of back and forth calls and another instance of a repair being half-assed. We're now at 3 keyboard assemblies, 1 logic board, 4 screen assemblies and numerous USB C ports.

I already emailed Tim Cook on Saturday and I'm planning on sending a follow up. Again I don't feel like rewarding Apple with another MacBook purchase if this is the way Im going to be treated or this is the quality of Macs now. Im typing this from a 2012 MacBook Pro that's been beat up, and its still holding up. I got numerous Apple products with Apple Care, and at most I've had to use it just once, the last time I used Apple Care for my watch was in 2016, the last time I used Apple Care on a phone was in 2019.

 

[pshufd]

My example of a forced upgrade: I bought an Android phone many years ago and it promised at least one update. It was made by Motorola.

I waited for a year and, they reneged on one lousy update.

I have a 2012 Nexus 7 and there were 3 updates. The 3rd made the device unusable because it required so many resources that the tablet becomes useless.

This is why I buy Apple stuff - because you can typically use it for many years.

I have a 2010 iMac 27 in the basement which I use for watching videos on my spin bike. It's really nice because it has the infared remote so I can change videos or volume without having to get off the bike.

 

[ctjack]

I have a 2012 Nexus 7 and there were 3 updates. The 3rd made the device unusable because it required so many resources that the tablet becomes useless.

This is why I buy Apple stuff - because you can typically use it for many years.

The same was true for my OG SE - it became a laggy piece of aluminum.
Though IOS 7 gave a second life to the Iphone 5.

Generally i am keeping the old/shipped version of ios/macos to keep things moving. For example, Air M1 with updated Macos can't run IOS apps and my work requires 2FA software that is only mobile and no other way. I just open it on my laptop instead of searching my phone all over the place.

 

[TerribleToll]

I decided to continue paying for AppleCare due to the quality of keyboard and the high cost of an out of warranty repair. I didn't feel the need to immediately upgrade once the warranty had ended.


Not sure how to reach one, when I asked for a manager yesterday they transferred me to the store, which at least I was finally able to get in touch with one. I haven't gotten an update yet. I've left Feedback on the Apple feedback page, I've filled out 2 different surveys about my support experience. Its almost like they just don't care. I guess I get a perpetually defective computer with a nonfunctioning camera then. One that will most likely lose OS support on the next release.

Can't see the point of keeping AppleCare more than 5 years. After that, save the money, keep good backups and upgrade when you are forced to or when the machine starts misbehaving. I keep my Macs for 10 years + before replacing since 1990's (laptop, iMac and mini-server). I write this on my 2013 MBP still going strong. The only issue is I cannot upgrade beyond OS 11.

 

[ricketysquire]

Well, the Apple Store reached out to me yesterday evening to let me know they are replacing my MacBook with an M2 based MacBook Pro. Im grateful, but at the same time, its going to be another week or so before I can pick it up and I actually needed a working laptop today for an important call. I guess I have mixed feelings right now after spending 2-3 weeks dealing with all the back and forth and arguing.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Well, the Apple Store reached out to me yesterday evening to let me know they are replacing my MacBook with an M2 based MacBook Pro. Im grateful, but at the same time, its going to be another week or so before I can pick it up and I actually needed a working laptop today for an important call. I guess I have mixed feelings right now after spending 2-3 weeks dealing with all the back and forth and arguing.

Try getting dell, HP, Lenovo and others getting repaired or asking them to replace with new laptop with out corporate agreements. It would have probably been lot easier if you had called customer care manager, sent an email to Tom cook lot sooner. Filling feedback forms isn’t gonna get you help. They are mostly surveys.

 

[ricketysquire]

Try getting dell, HP, Lenovo and others getting repaired or asking them to replace with new laptop with out corporate agreements. It would have probably been lot easier if you had called customer care manager, sent an email to Tom cook lot sooner. Filling feedback forms isn’t gonna get you help. They are mostly surveys.

I did do that, which is how I was able to get the replacement. My frustration is after all of this headache, all the calls, emails, etc. I still have to wait for a replacement, and said replacement is in stock for same day purchase at said store. But for one reason or another they can't just give me one out of the shelf and be done with me. Rather they have to give me I don't know what. Its one thing if they gave me a previous model or something that they don't carry anymore. I know im being a selfish prick at this point, but 3 weeks of my life have been wasted chasing after this crap. At this point Id have been better off just going to the store, picking up a 16 gb M2 Air and throwing the 2017 MacBook Pro in the garbage and moving on with my life rather than emailing, calling and *gasp* asking a company stand by their products.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I did do that, which is how I was able to get the replacement. My frustration is after all of this headache, all the calls, emails, etc. I still have to wait for a replacement, and said replacement is in stock for same day purchase at said store. But for one reason or another they can't just give me one out of the shelf and be done with me. Rather they have to give me I don't know what. Its one thing if they gave me a previous model or something that they don't carry anymore. I know im being a selfish prick at this point, but 3 weeks of my life have been wasted chasing after this crap. At this point Id have been better off just going to the store, picking up a 16 gb M2 Air and throwing the 2017 MacBook Pro in the garbage and moving on with my life rather than emailing, calling and *gasp* asking a company stand by their products.

You should have done it faster. The replacement is most likely coming from refurb/laptops allocated for replacement/support. Lot of corporate customers also wait for replacments, its nothing new.

 

[ricketysquire]

Picked up my replacement device yesterday, its a base model M2 MacBook Pro 16". So far it's a far better machine than my 2017 MacBook Pro, much more quieter, cooler and the keyboard is infinitely times as better.

 

[cpnotebook80]

I am debating on the upgrade but will wait for a m3 pro/max variant. I have the m1 macbook pro 13". While it served me well for 2 years and temps are always 24-30'c. I had to do a side project for my elderly parents today whereby, I had to take a VHS converted family home video saved on dvd taken in the 80s, converted the vob files to mp4 and decided to use Topaz video AI since i purchased it last year to upscale it.

So yea...the 30 min footage was being converted from a very low rez maybe 640p to 1080p. Topaz video AI took 14 hours. Yep! I started at 1am and finished close to 3pm yesterday and this was increasing the memory usage to 70% and using 4 cores in the topaz settings. I just left the laptop on power and while there was a slight fan increase and warmth, it processed through for 13-14 hours straight. Eek! The video turned out good and acceptable for what the footage was for the time.

I'm hoping that 14 hours dwindles down to 10-15mins in subsequent silicon releases!

 

[GoldfishRT]

Sounds like OP is getting a new laptop, so that seems like a forced upgrade. 😅

I have a 2018 that just had the keyboard/battery/topcase replaced under the repair program. I'll use it until it's non-functional. It's primarily a Netflix and couch surfing machine while the desktop takes the heavy lifting.

When it's finally time, it will probably be replaced with a ThinkPad however, I'm hoping I've still got a couple more years. Would like to make it well past the 5 year mark. 🤷‍♂️

 

[marcinsf]

I think I have a new name for him - Tim Crook.
Intentionally making things so they are throw away and you have to buy new rather than being able to repair and reuse.

 

[Gen]

But for one reason or another they can't just give me one out of the shelf and be done with me. Rather they have to give me I don't know what. Its one thing if they gave me a previous model or something that they don't carry anymore. I know im being a selfish prick at this point, but 3 weeks of my life have been wasted chasing after this crap.

Jesus man. Try going to Dell/HP/Lenovo/Microsoft and asking them to replace your (what) 5 year old laptop with a brand new one?

Be happy. You're getting a brand new computer. Try to enjoy the sunshine outside.