App Store to Be 'Split in Two' Ahead of EU iPhone Sideloading Deadline

[Timo_Existencia]

Apple doesn't like this mostly because it endangers their very steep "30% right off the top" cut of nearly 100% of app sales.

I could unpack your entire post, but I'll just pull out this nugget.

Very few app sales pay 30%. Those that do pay, the overwhelming majority only pay 15%. And beyond that, the vast majority of apps are free and pay nothing.

But perpetuating the 30% figure helps work up the mobs

 

[RamGuy]

There are quite a few things that worries me about this change:

Will we start to see apps leaving the Apple App Store? If so, that is a downside as you lose the benefit of having the Apple App Store as a trustworthy source, and you lose out on managing all apps in one place.

How will Apple be able to force lazy developers to adopt new security features, system APIs and whatnot? One massive benefit of iOS and iPadOS over Linux, Windows and macOS is that Apple can be very strict with developers before removing their apps from the App Store. This is a huge benefit for users as this often results in developers getting a 2-year warning before their apps have to get updated to comply with new features and APIs. Suppose apps can be served outside the Apple App Store. In that case, there is no longer a way for Apple to enforce much of anything, allowing developers to get lazy as they often are on Windows, where apps still utilise things like .NET Framework v2.5-4 years after they've become deprecated and replaced with newer Windows Desktop Runtimes. I encountered this issue earlier today when a piece of Samsung software required me to add .NET Framework 2.5-3.0 as an optional feature on my Windows 11 desktop for it to be able to install and run. This was a piece of software for a product released in 2023.

There are, of course, benefits to be had as well. Apple has some stupid restrictions for apps on the App Store, like no emulators, pornographic content, etc. They are not allowing third-party browsers to use anything besides WebKit as their rendering engine. But these benefits don't outweigh the downsides if I suddenly have to deal with a Microsoft Store, a Meta Store, an Epic Store, losing all control of various payment methods, subscriptions, etc. This allows developers to become lazy as Apple can no longer force them to adopt new features and APIs; they can remove their apps from the App Store. Then, this will be an overall loss for me.

And, of course, we have the security liability. In this day and age, where so many servers get compromised, allowing for the automatic rollout of compromised application updates left and right, the value of having a single trustworthy source for application control is higher than ever. Apple is not immune to being compromised; harmful updates can certainly sneak through their review process. But it's still far superior compared to having your applications being fed updates from numerous sources.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Apple created the playground and set the rules for their playground. just what isnt fair about that?

The fact it doesn't agree with what you want, doesn't make it unfair.

as for your field.. want to guess what field I work in? Hint. The other side of the fence. You want to blame companies for high drug costs, but you should be looking at the government agency, called the FDA. An example of what government regulation can do for you the consumer. It used to cost about $350 Million to bring a new drug to market, now it's measured in the billions. Often as high as 5 billion. Just to bring it to market through the FDA gauntlet. Who is going to pay for that? What is going to motivate the drug companies to provide new desperately needed therapies? Profits. And it's a sad truth for every drug that makes it to market after spending $2 billion, another 10 drugs do not after spending 'only' a billion. So yep those drugs with high costs are paying for research, including research that does not always pan out.

That's why I resist governement stepping in. They always make it more expensive for the consumer.

and btw. want to know why drugs are cheaper to bring to market in the EU? because they are still science based there and they accept there is risk. the American consumer wants zero risk. thats expensive as heck.

I grant there is a need for the FDA. But they have gone way overboard. Just saying.

but yah. you go on about competition and high prices in medicine. if we got what you you think you want, it would be companies ignoring small markets to only pursue large markets.

and more people with rare diseases would just be out of luck.

you don't need government for true competition. You need it for safe competition.

You blame the FDA, I blame middle-men (insurance). Same as I blame Apple, which are nothing than a middle-man between apps and the end-user..

 

[G5isAlive]

I was really hoping they’d allow sideloading everywhere :/

I wonder if I use a VPN from my internal network routing (so the phone doesnt know) with an EU endpoint and temporarily change my location settings if I can temp unlock sideloading whenever I want to put something on

been wondering the same from a just trying to understand POV. My guess is such a maneuver would leave a digital fingerprint that Apple could detect when you invariably connect with a US location network (it is a phone after all). I never jailbroke my iPhone but I do recall it seemed to be a cat and mouse game with jailbreakers and Apple.. Apple would patch the code to prevent, you would upgrade, and boom loose the function. You'd hear people complaining all the time how big bad mean Apple broke their Jailbroken phone. the same will happen here.

 

[LV426]

I just want one feature, just one, that for some reason Apple won't implement. Allow me to block "unknown caller id" or "blocked caller id" WITHOUT silencing all unknown callers. I can't do the latter because of my job, and I might take 20 legitimate calls a day from unknown numbers.

Had it back in the day when jailbreaks were still a thing; iBlacklist. I wonder if it will come back?

I want this, and two other features: 1) Soft start alarm sounds so I'm not jolted out of bed. 2) Bring back screenshots of movies. Some of us movie fans like to post screenshots amongst ourselves. It's shaming - and announcing your Apple credentials - when you take a photo of the TV from your iPhone.

 

[seek3r]

Apple has said in hindsight they made a mistake and if they’d do the Mac again it would have an App Store as we’re used to today

I have my doubts that it would ever have been a serious concern since the OSX+ era, let alone since iphones. Apple is huge as a dev platform in the tech industry, they sell a *lot* of hardware to corps for dev work, I cant imagine how I could work on a mac without deep level root access to the system, it would destroy one of their most lucrative markets.

But man have they come a long way from the days of Woz’s tinkering

 

[seek3r]

been wondering the same from a just trying to understand POV. My guess is such a maneuver would leave a digital fingerprint that Apple could detect when you invariably connect with a US location network (it is a phone after all). I never jailbroke my iPhone but I do recall it seemed to be a cat and mouse game with jailbreakers and Apple.. Apple would patch the code to prevent, you would upgrade, and boom loose the function. You'd hear people complaining all the time how big bad mean Apple broke their Jailbroken phone. the same will happen here.

I have a feeling they wont do that, what if I’m traveling for work and physically in the EU, does my phone suddenly break anything I did there when I come home? Same problem with Europeans traveling here. That’s gonna piss off a lot of people if so.

 

[LV426]

Its YOUR device. You should be able to do with it what you wish. You paid for it.

Should you be able to tweak the firmware so that your cellular modem generates phone-blocking signals?

 

[dypeterc]

Nbd. This doesn’t affect me one bit. I’d rather buy from a trusted source like Apple’s App Store than from some random app store. It’s not a question of if but when one of these 3rd party app stores will either steal information off of your phone or brick your phone.

 

[seek3r]

Should you be able to tweak the firmware so that your cellular modem generates phone-blocking signals?

You should be able to do it in hardware yes, but the FCC should also be able to fine you for doing it

But that’s a crappy comparison anyway because those regulations are about keeping radio sources from interfering with other people’s stuff. The whole “your right to swing your fist ends at my face” thing.

But look, you can easily build a device that does that now, it shouldn't be being enforced by the device manufacturer, it should be being enforced by the same legal mechanisms that stop you from doing it with $50 of parts from microcenter

 

[dypeterc]

Should you be able to tweak the firmware so that your cellular modem generates phone-blocking signals?

There’s other phones that you could’ve bought to do this

 

[gnipgnop]

You blame the FDA, I blame middle-men (insurance). Same as I blame Apple, which are nothing than a middle-man between apps and the end-user..

Apple creates the hardware and the operating system that the apps run on. That's not what a middle-man does.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

These external app stores (and apps) will be under the same permission and sandbox rules as any other app on the iPhone.

Are you sure about that? What's to stop the EU from mandating that Meta is free to build and operate their own apps the way they see fit? Remember, the EU is in negotiation with both Meta and Google, as well. Have the EU banned data tracking from apps?

See, you've just ceded control to a government, and taken that control away from Apple. You can't say for certain how this plays out.

 

[G5isAlive]

You blame the FDA, I blame middle-men (insurance). Same as I blame Apple, which are nothing than a middle-man between apps and the end-user..

facepalms. Apple is NOT a middle man. They fricking invented the store. They built the store. They run the store. They invented, built, the darn device and OS without which you wouldn't even need a store. You agreed to buy the device. No one forced you to. You had choices. You like to say no one forces you to use a particular App. Well who forced you to buy an iPhone and agree to their end user licensing agreement? No one. And now you want people to come in and set up camp for free.

admittedly google is not a good choice. But it IS a choice.

and insurance companies have NOTHING to do with the $2 BILLION it takes to get a new drug approved. zero. zilch. someone has to pay for that. It's not the government (in most cases). It's not the insurance company. oh wait. it's YOU (through the corporation).

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Then don't... no one is forcing you to; I've never been forced to download any app, from anyone, ever.

And yet elsewhere you keep saying that Apple and corporations are forcing you in all sorts of ways, no? Which is it? Are corporations forcing you or are aren't they?

 

[seek3r]

Are you sure about that? What's to stop the EU from mandating that Meta is free to build and operate their own apps the way they see fit? Remember, the EU is in negotiation with both Meta and Google, as well. Have the EU banned data tracking from apps?

See, you've just ceded control to a government, and taken that control away from Apple. You can't say for certain how this plays out.

Nothing, and that’s a good thing. Do you complain about steam on a mac? How about homebrew? How about downloading firefox or chrome? Or being able to use VLC or IINA instead of QuickTime?

 

[sir1963nz]

Please Apple for EU:
separate app store, no update, no support, limited warranty!
Any sideload - warranty voided!

Sure, and let the rest of the world (96% of the worlds population) see how capricious and vindictive the USA can be.

All you are saying is that the world needs to move much of its economy away from the USA so they can not be bullied or blackmailed. Short term this will hurt, long term it will be of benefit as "Make <insert your country here> Great Again" works for everyone.

 

[G5isAlive]

I have a feeling they wont do that, what if I’m traveling for work and physically in the EU, does my phone suddenly break anything I did there when I come home? Same problem with Europeans traveling here. That’s gonna piss off a lot of people if so.

you still signed a US based end user licensing agreement. have you read the fine print? I sure havent, but would be surprised if it doesn't cover this contingency. and if it doesn't, it will. lol you can be sure of that. as for pissing off people, only people trying to get around Apple.

this isnt the same was watching different movies in Europe versus the US.

 

[Mimiron]

Great job EU this will compromise device security. Make your own phone and sell on your own platform if you have issues.

 

[sir1963nz]

And do the same for the Macs!

And Windows, let the EU/world go OSS.

 

[seek3r]

you still signed a US based end user licensing agreement. have you read the fine print? I sure havent, but would be surprised if it doesn't cover this contingency. and if it doesn't, it will. lol you can be sure of that. as for pissing off people, only people trying to get around Apple.

this isnt the same was watching different movies in Europe versus the US.

If I’m physically in the EU my use of the device becomes subject to EU laws. Legally apple *can* break things I did there when I’m back in the US, but I dont think they’ll be stupid enough to do that and piss off a lot of people.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

As I said earlier, true competition doesn't exist without a referee (government). Apple isn't playing fair, and they are not the authority. I didn't elect Apple, or Google, I elected my government to represent me, a voter. They don't (shouldn't) represent companies. We the people, not we the corporations.

...lest you end up like the field I work in, medicine. No competition and high prices.

So, you're the people. And I'm not?

 

[seek3r]

So, you're the people. And I'm not?

That’s how elections work. EU countries chose to join the EU and nominate EU regulators to handle the common market. You dont like it vote to leave, the UK did, but otherwise yes, democracy spoke and you didnt win

 

[sir1963nz]

Great job EU this will compromise device security. Make your own phone and sell on your own platform if you have issues.

If you sell goods/services into another country/region, then you have to obey that countries laws etc.
If Americans don't like this, they are free to withdraw from the market. That action of course will see the EU develop its own hardware and software, which in turn will be good for their economy and will increase global competition.

 

[XXPP]

Good on the EU for standing up for consumers over companies/profits! 👏🏻 We (US) have completely succumbed to corporate control and profit over absolutely everything else.

This is extremely anti-consumer.
It will cause mass extortion of money and destroy convenience and security. Now I will have to have several different app stores and connect card details to different providers.
The EU should create its own ecosystem and compete with Apple and Google, instead of destroying and stealing.