App Store to Be 'Split in Two' Ahead of EU iPhone Sideloading Deadline

[HobeSoundDarryl]

" as controller of their app, they can charge whatever they want for their app, including- if they wished- MORE than it was previously offered in the App Store. Get too greedy and competitor "artists" will see an opportunity to offer similar functionality for less... so that threat of competition somewhat polices the "too greedy" scenario."

this is what will make the prices fall. that's how markets work.

Correct! And therein is the capitalism benefit for the buyers: let robust competition pressure prices DOWN vs. say implement and even fool buyers into evangelizing one lone source of a supply of anything so that there is NO competition... which pretty much always results in that lone supplier/controller getting very, very rich.

Competition is good for consumers. It's about ALL we have in the whole buy:sell proposition to get pricing moving to favor us short of the ultimate card to play: "just say NO" (to the purchase). And for that to work well, MANY of us have to do it together.

No competition is ever good for consumers. Seller will get insanely rich though.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

They aren‘t billion or dollar companies for no reason.
They’re making tons of revenue from consumers - including in the EU.
If they can lower prices by selling without Apple‘s commission, it’s a win for consumers.

NOBODY will lower prices for consumers. That hasn't happened in the android world, and it won't happen here.

 

[trip1ex]

Most likely scenario: some prices will be lowered as a PR initiative to coincide with the new regulations and then be quietly raised later on when there is less focus on the change. But mobile prices don't really have that much to cut versus the desktop/laptop market. They're already the bargain segment of the market.

no PR involved. If you have a bunch of people making apps in a competitive market and suddenly each of their costs drop 30%...that eventually will get passed on to customers thru competition as a rule of thumb.

I mean look at what happened to games in the mobile market. They tried to price higher at first and what happened eventually?

It's just too difficult for most to hold price when competition is selling for less.

 

[AppliedMicro]

I think you misunderstand what the EU is, or rather, isn't. For a start, it isn't a government. And people don't vote for the EU like they do their government.

The problem with the EU is: they are and act as a quasi-government - but without the democratic legitimacy that comes from, as you said, voters „voting like they do for their government.

That said, I fully support them on the DMA: Apple shouldn’t be the single gatekeeper for installation of apps - when there‘s a de facto duopoly in mobile application stores and operating systems.

 

[mrochester]

That's a weird way of putting it but yes, because that's what free market is, isn't it? Shouldn't a business be free to decide what they want to sell or not sell (within legal bounds of course)?

Yeah that’s how capitalism and free markets work. Company makes product, consumers buy product if they want. If company doesn’t make profit they either go out of business or make changes to product. Ultimately the consumer has all the power.

 

[Fandroid killer]

I’m never ever downloading a single app that’s not through Apple and anyone who does should know they’re a victim.

Having your data farmed at much higher levels is not a win lol.

Your data is already being farmed apple admitted it multiple times. If you think it's safer under Apple politics you are absolutely wrong. With that said, you are free to choose whether or not to download on non apple stores the same exact way you are on Mac. Look at how incredible macos is

 

[MacCheetah3]

I’m constantly in awe of how absolutely stupid EU regulators are. Somehow they manage to be worse than America.

The way I see and can best describe it at the moment is the EU is a bunch of old people playing err pretending to be social media stars err influencers.

But now Apple will be forced to compete on lower store taxes, which means lower prices for consumers.

That’s what Epic was fighting for … Oh, wait… 😂 Now it’s some other company’s (beyond Apple and Google) fault that Epic can’t “pass along the savings."

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/180h4xd

And then:

When this eventually leads to alternate stores the likes of Epic, Steam, Amazon, Microsoft, Meta will open their own and begin to pull their apps off the Apple store and pay other devs for exclusive distribution rights via those alt stores. Simple concept really. No one has done it yet because they would have only had the Android side. Once they can offer a store for "all" mobile apps they will.

So please stop saying the Apple App store will remain as it, it won't.

Basically, speaking of liars, this legislation is not pro-consumer — like most of the EU decisions. At best, it’s not any more harmful for consumers but good for additional corporations.

 

[AppliedMicro]

NOBODY will lower prices for consumers. That hasn't happened in the android world, and it won't happen here.

I have, as a matter of fact, bought macOS software through developers’ websites at lower prices than available on Apple’s App Store. Many times.

So I believe - from experience - that you‘ll be wrong.

 

[mrochester]

no PR involved. If you have a bunch of people making apps in a competitive market and suddenly each of their costs drop 30%...that eventually will get passed on to customers thru competition as a rule of thumb.

I mean look at what happened to games in the mobile market. They tried to price higher at first and what happened eventually?

Where does the 30% come from? Do we know how much commission Apple will be charging for apps installed outside of the Apple App Store?

 

[Timo_Existencia]

not true.

exactly true.

Look, I run a business in which I have to pay a fee to a listing agency. If I decide to implement my own payment system, I'm not going to lower my prices. I'm going to keep more profit. If I'm doing the work to build and manage a separate payment system, I'm not going to do it just to make the same money I'm already making. This is business 101.

Besides, we don't have to guess at this. This scenario already exists in the Android world. Studies have shown that 3rd market app stores and sideloading have not lowered app prices.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

I have, as a matter of fact, bought macOS software through developers’ websites at lower prices than available on Apple’s App Store. Many times.

So I believe - from experience - that you‘ll be wrong.

Give me 3 examples, so I can take a look at those.

 

[Skyscraperfan]

I think a question about sideloading should be asked in one of the presidential debates. "As EU citizens are allowed to install third party app stores, will Americans get the same freedom?"

 

[AppliedMicro]

That’s what Epic was fighting for … Oh, wait… 😂 Now it’s some other company’s (beyond Apple and Google) that Epic can’t “pass along the savings."

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/180h4xd

Quoting the first comment: „Next up: it’s the credit card companies taking their cut of the transactions that are keeping prices high.“

👉 The EU has drastically lowered merchant and consumer costs by regulating card payment interchange fees and banning surcharging for (consumer) card payments.

Just goes to show how EU regulation can be successful and beneficial for consumers 💪

 

[seek3r]

Except that forcing sideloading/third party stores was never on the ballot. That's what the EU is going to find out. This is a change that wasn't spearheaded by the general population of the EU. It came from the lobbyists for billion dollar companies like Spotify, Tinder and Epic and trillion dollar companies like Microsoft.

Will this really be popular in the EU with voters? I tend to doubt it. The idea that the mobile software business is the place where prices are too high and have plenty of room for cuts is the opposite of what actually exists. Mobile is already the bargain market.

Somehow I seriously doubt you’re going to have citizen protests against being able to do more with a phone that’s not even close to the majority of the market by giving it capabilities the phones that are dominant in the market can already do.

And no, people didnt vote on every issue, because no one has ever managed to make a pure direct democracy scale. The governments job is to create regulations that they best see as protecting their citizens as a result, and that’s what the regulators are doing.

Sometimes, in a democracy, other people than you get their way. Cope.

 

[seek3r]

This is extremely anti-consumer.
It will cause mass extortion of money and destroy convenience and security. Now I will have to have several different app stores and connect card details to different providers.
The EU should create its own ecosystem and compete with Apple and Google, instead of destroying and stealing.

You know you can sideload with android and yet most people usually use the google play store, right?

The doom and gloom you’re projecting is absurd

 

[mrochester]

Quoting the first comment: „Next up: it’s the credit card companies taking their cut of the transactions that are keeping prices high.“

👉 The EU has drastically lowered merchant and consumer costs by regulating card payment interchange fees and banning surcharging for (consumer) card payments.

Just goes to show how EU regulation can be successful and beneficial for consumers 💪

The difference is that card payments are essential for a modern economy, app purchases and IAP isn’t.

 

[trip1ex]

exactly true.

Look, I run a business in which I have to pay a fee to a listing agency. If I decide to implement my own payment system, I'm not going to lower my prices. I'm going to keep more profit. If I'm doing the work to build and manage a separate payment system, I'm not going to do it just to make the same money I'm already making. This is business 101.

Besides, we don't have to guess at this. This scenario already exists in the Android world. Studies have shown that 3rd market app stores and sideloading have not lowered app prices.

Competition is what forces the price to go down. Not developers volunteering to lower their price against their self interest. If you have any competition at all, you're going to find your pricing under pressure or business goes else where. That's business 101. And pricing is going to be under lots of pressure if everyone's costs suddenly drop ~30%.

And your last point happens because no one is on 3rd party app stores or side loading on Android.

Obviously prices aren't going to go down on iPHone if no one is side loading and using 3rd party app stores either.

And don't get me wrong about that either. I don't expect people to go out of their way to trust someone other than Apple as a rule of thumb. AT least over the forseeable or near future.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

What a sad state of affairs. Get something good and people become determined to spoil it.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Give me 3 examples, so I can take a look at those.

ABBYY FineReader PDF for Mac for USD 47.91 (plus tax) in 2021.
Mountain Duck for USD 8.00 in 2022.
Network Radar for USD 2.50 in 2023.

As another notable example (that I don't use personally), you can subscribe to loads of apps for a USD 9.99 SetApp subscription per Mac - a pricing model that Apple doesn't allow on their store.

 

[coolfactor]

Good, finally.

I hope the US will follow suit eventually. It was absolutely moronic to begin with that I can install any app from anywhere on my computer, but on my phone Apple and Google play gatekeeper.

Thank god Apple's phony arguments about the App Store only being for the benefit of user security were easy to see through for the EU and South Korea. I assume other countries will follow soon.

Wait and see. You'll see why iOS has become such a trusted platform.

This forced move is tearing down that wall.

I'm curious... are you in support of a Southern Border Wall?

Those migrants are the malware that will invade your phone one day, after the wall is torn down.

(no, migrants looking for a safe haven are not malware, it's just an analogy) 😇

 

[KazuSnow]

We'd be fine over here. No country is stupid enough to try to attack us.

Why does my country celebrate September 11 then?

 

[AppliedMicro]

Yeah that’s how capitalism and free markets work. Company makes product, consumers buy product if they want. If company doesn’t make profit they either go out of business or make changes to product. Ultimately the consumer has all the power.

Yet capitalism and free markets can also lead to monopolies or duopolies - where consumers do not have a (or much) choice which product or service to buy and use. Where consumers are deprived of that power.

It's a failure of capitalism that isn't uncommon - that's why most governments in the world have competition law and competition regulatores.

 

[Onelifenofear]

Why does my country celebrate September 11 then?

Canada?

 

[femike]

I hope it comes here. The gov of countries need to step for users and not let these massive corporations rule.

 

[j26]

Except that forcing sideloading/third party stores was never on the ballot. That's what the EU is going to find out. This is a change that wasn't spearheaded by the general population of the EU. It came from the lobbyists for billion dollar companies like Spotify, Tinder and Epic and trillion dollar companies like Microsoft.

Will this really be popular in the EU with voters? I tend to doubt it. The idea that the mobile software business is the place where prices are too high and have plenty of room for cuts is the opposite of what actually exists. Mobile is already the bargain market.

Two thirds of the EU market runs Android.

The vast majority of us won't care one bit...