App Store to Be 'Split in Two' Ahead of EU iPhone Sideloading Deadline

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I'll take Semantics for $500 Alex!

Haha and if Semantics was an iOS app, the only place Alex could buy it for $500 is from ONE store... from which Apple would immediately take up to $150 of that $500 for themselves.

Soon in the EU, the developer of this hypothetical Semantics app might opt to ALSO sell it direct for iDevices there for- oh say- $400 instead, making a bit more profit for themselves as creator of the app while EU consumers could get and enjoy the very same app for $100 LESS than it costs in the Apple App Store.

That probably makes EU Alex and EU app seller both happier, a win:win by cutting out the "first cut at every sale" middleman. However, if EU Steve wants to only buy the app from Apple, they still can, pay the extra $100 and Apple will appreciate the up to $150 they will take from Steve's purchase. Then, the developer of the app will take their cut from only $350 that remains.

 

[AppliedMicro]

That's the same EU that refused to treat privacy/security as a competitive feature in mobile computing.

Quite the contrary. Not only did they explicitly restrict the scope and effect of their own legislation (the DMA that allows for sideloading) by allowing platform operators to take measures that protect privacy and security.

👉 The EU is also leading the way (from the point of public policy) for privacy/security as a feature in computing with their proposed Cyber Resilience Act legislation.

 

[gaximus]

You've never needed an App Store on your computer to ensure your security or privacy.

No, you just got virus, unless you paid for very expensive anti-virus software. Then you would still get viruses. Not because you downloaded something, but because your grandma did, and then you got an email from her, with an attachment.
Apple/Mac had less viruses, for 2 reasons, way less market share, less than 5%. So people didn’t take the time to make viruses, and 2, when they did, it was pretty easy for Apple to stay on top and squash it.

With iPhone being close to 50% market share, there will be viruses and security breaches like crazy. You’ll get and email, or a iMessage that will install a fake, App Store or replace a legitimate app, and now you have a virus, that has access to everything, your bank, home security, family members locations, everything.

 

[wyrdness]

We've had this approach on Mac forever and the world did not end. Why are so many people bothered by this move?

I'm guessing that it's because of their political opinions, rather than for technical reasons.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Here's 1 example. Youtube Premium.

Yes, YouTube is one of the only ones I'm aware of. Youtube charges a 36% premium to IOS users. Even AFTER the first year when apple drops the fee from 30% to 15%. This, to me, is an example of Youtube taking advantage of IOS users. And sure, you could say this is the fault of Apple, but really, I think it's equally on both Apple and Google. Google could drop their fee by 15% after the first year of subscription, but they, like all businesses, are maximzing their return. Netflix charges the same in app or on web.

I have a YouTube premium family plan. As a savvy consumer, I simply pay for it on the web site. As I do with Netflix.

But I care less about the big players in this instance than I do the small software developers. In those instances, I think it's pretty rare to find a difference in price in the app store and on their own websites. Because they don't have the scale to really lower their own fees if they were to do all this on their own. And, in most cases, they are only paying 15%. It is usually on the big players who can bring these costs enough lower than 15% to make the effort worth it.

 

[andrewxgx]

the amount of people that somehow think this is bad is ridiculous

like, you own a lot of apple stock that maybe gonna take a hit due to lost revenue? other than that theres zero reason to bitch about it.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Netflix.

Netlix charges the same on IOS as they do on their site.

 

[InvertedGoldfish]

So will iOS devices who don’t install the side load vulnerable “upgrade” still be able to access the AppStore?

 

[gnipgnop]

Quite the contrary. Not only did they explicitly restrict the scope and effect of their own legislation (the DMA that allows for sideloading) by allowing platform operators to take measures that protect privacy and security.

👉 The EU is also leading the way (from the point of public policy) for privacy/security as a feature in computing with their proposed Cyber Resilience Act legislation.

Not allowing side loading WAS a specific privacy/security aspect of iOS. Apple had a wealth of evidence showing that privacy/security were part of their primary marketing of the phone and OS to consumers. They also had a wealth of evidence showing that iOS was IN FACT more private/secure than Android and also to desktop/laptop operating systems like Windows and macOS.

The EU purposefully ignored all of that. Will that be popular with EU consumers? I doubt it. The EU was not lobbied about sideloading/3rd party stores by consumers.

 

[InvertedGoldfish]

However embarrassing it is, i agree with you here. Its to bad we cant regulate our own capitalistic economy. Clearly those in power are the companies that need to be regulated. (corrupt government) ......... Its well know fact you cant have capitalism with out proper regulation.

If people stop buying stuff from a company and the government doesnt interfere “we” sure as heck can regulate

 

[trip1ex]

Haha and if Semantics was an iOS app, the only place Alex could buy it for $500 is from ONE store... from which Apple would immediately take up to $150 of that $500 for themselves.

Except I can't buy Semantics from the iOS store. I can only download it.

You say that's free, but it's not. Semantics costs money to use. IT's a digital paper weight otherwise.

If that isn't an app then ok you've eliminated a lot of apps that can be purchased outside the app store. Congrats!

 

[Altis]

the amount of people that somehow think this is bad is ridiculous

like, you own a lot of apple stock that maybe gonna take a hit due to lost revenue? other than that theres zero reason to bitch about it.

There's a lot of defending Apple's practices that enrich their bottom line but bad for the end users. No doubt quite a few would be shareholders who care nothing of the consumer.

I'm glad to see some freedom brought to iOS. I suspect most people will still use the app store for everything but it's great to have options. Now if only we could revert to previous versions of iOS, that would be nice.

 

[Mimiron]

This is extremely anti-consumer.
It will cause mass extortion of money and destroy convenience and security. Now I will have to have several different app stores and connect card details to different providers.
The EU should create its own ecosystem and compete with Apple and Google, instead of destroying and stealing.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[trip1ex]

Yes, YouTube is one of the only ones I'm aware of. Youtube charges a 36% premium to IOS users. Even AFTER the first year when apple drops the fee from 30% to 15%. This, to me, is an example of Youtube taking advantage of IOS users. And sure, you could say this is the fault of Apple, but really, I think it's equally on both Apple and Google. Google could drop their fee by 15% after the first year of subscription, but they, like all businesses, are maximzing their return. Netflix charges the same in app or on web.

I have a YouTube premium family plan. As a savvy consumer, I simply pay for it on the web site. As I do with Netflix.

But I care less about the big players in this instance than I do the small software developers. In those instances, I think it's pretty rare to find a difference in price in the app store and on their own websites. Because they don't have the scale to really lower their own fees if they were to do all this on their own. And, in most cases, they are only paying 15%. It is usually on the big players who can bring these costs enough lower than 15% to make the effort worth it.

Try OFfice 365 next.

And then realize some solve the same problem by only allowing you to purchase their app elsewhere like NEtflix or Spotify. That way they don't have to "take advantage" of customers as you say. (although is it really them not Apple taking advantage of customers?.../tangent). IN the case of Spotify...can you imagine them pricing 30% higher than Apple Music in the Apple app store? Wouldn't be good for business.

There are examples of small developers who do the same thing as big guys altho if you already have a big name then it would be way easier to do that I would think. I forget the few names I have come across. I know there is some sort of email client that was in the news recently for being rejected by Apple or something at least temporarily which only allowed purchases outside the app store.

 

[AndiG]

Please Apple for EU:
separate app store, no update, no support, limited warranty!
Any sideload - warranty voided!

But this would violate the DMA 😂😂😂 Apple wallet garden just broke open, other states including the USA prepare similar regulations.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Except I can't buy Semantics from the iOS store. I can only download it.

You say that's free, but it's not. Semantics costs money to use. IT's a digital paper weight otherwise.

If that isn't an app then ok you've eliminated a lot of the competition to purchasing an app outside the app store. Congrats!

Both your Netflix and Kindle app examples are free apps. But there are plenty for sale on the store… the ONE store. That only one store situation will soon change in the EU, where developers of apps for sale will have other channels through which the very same app can be sold… including direct from them as app creator if they like… exactly as it already is for Mac apps.

 

[Ethosik]

I still want game emulators for my phone. Apple banning them from the App Store, despite them being available on every device for decades now, is a huge limitation for gamers.

Most game emulators are technically illegal unless you have explicit permission from the copyright holders you can emulate the game. Breaking encryption and copyright is illegal. It just hasn't been sent to court yet and you are not likely to be targeted. Just like with Steam and Dolphin emulator, Apple is required by law to not include these types of apps.

I have spoken to my attorney in charge of my game development legal side at length about this.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Not allowing side loading WAS a specific privacy/security aspect of iOS.

It was and is a façade - especially considering they are allowing by way of enterprise certificates that subverts this security/privacy aspect.

Does their App approval process make apps safer? Somewhat, yes, by weeding out at least some of the (more obviously) scammy or data-hungry apps.

If anything, that makes the "average" app from the App Store a bit safer - but not iOS itself.

They also had a wealth of evidence showing that iOS was IN FACT more private/secure than Android and also to desktop/laptop operating systems like Windows and macOS.

They came up with that evidence - even going so far as (Federighi) throwing their own macOS under thus bus - when it suited them in their antitrust case.

 

[Philip_S]

Please Apple for EU:
separate app store, no update, no support, limited warranty!
Any sideload - warranty voided!

The EU has similar warranty rules to Magnussen-Moss except more consumer-friendly: they’d have to show that the sideload (or other user action) caused the problem, and that it wasn’t able to cause the problem because of a design flaw.

If a userspace application can damage hardware that’s a hardware or OS flaw. If it corrupts shared files (bearing in mind that each app runs as a separate Unix UID), all apple would do is restore from backups anyway.

 

[Robert.Walter]

I take it you don't use a Mac then, with its compromised security and all.

Been using Macs since the 70’s. I cringe every time I load an app onto it and pray to the X Protect gods.

I had hoped Apple would require devs to offer a companion app in the Mac store for any iOS app in the iOS store.

With A and M series architecture converging it should be easier than ever to do so especially with apples suite of dev conversion tools.

Maybe the split store could be a chance for this to happen.

 

[Ethosik]

Yeah, I still dont get it. Apple built the playground. People decide to play on it. But then they want to change it. I am all for government putting in safety regulations (like seat belts in cars), but eh, don't want them telling businesses how to run their business.

The computer analogy doesnt hold water. It was designed back in the days when privacy meant shutting our doors, or shredding our mail when we through it out. That genie is out of the bottle. Apple didnt make that mistake with the iPhone or iPads and built a business around security. Sure they make money from it, it's a for profit organization, but it distinguishes them from google who mines your private life to sell. That's called choice. I chose privacy. You can choose cheaper if you want.

and the argument this doesnt hurt you if you don't side load doesnt convince me either. Right now, companies play nice (most of them) on the App Store, and that helps fund future hardware and software that we all enjoy and benefit from, including third parties. But no one thinks of that, they think of what pennies they can save if they move out of the App Store to go sideload. So now I get less chance, and my platform of choice is less supported. R&D is paid for by real money.

People are thinking short term, not long. Especially elected officials, when did they ever think long term????

Agreed people need to look at all the facts. Heck just look at how Epic is handling the situation and how Epic handles the Epic Games Store on PC. That will tell you not only Apple will be changing, but Android is either (a little help -- Epic also sued Google since it was "too difficult" to side-load on Android).

 

[firewood]

I still want game emulators for my phone. Apple banning them from the App Store, despite them being available on every device for decades now, is a huge limitation for gamers.

Not a limitation at all. Many game emulators are open source. Xcode allows any enrolled Apple developer with a Mac to build and run any suitable source code on that developer's own devices. So just buy a Mac and enroll.

 

[trip1ex]

Netflix charges the same in app or on web.

Not on iOS. You can't buy Netflix in the app.

 

[trip1ex]

I still want game emulators for my phone. Apple banning them from the App Store, despite them being available on every device for decades now, is a huge limitation for gamers.

LImitation for thieves for sure.

 

[Ethosik]

Been using Macs since the 70’s. I cringe every time I load an app onto it and pray to the X Protect gods.

I had hoped Apple would require devs to offer a companion app in the Mac store for any iOS app in the iOS store.

With A and M series architecture converging it should be easier than ever to do so especially with apples suite of dev conversion tools.

Maybe the split store could be a chance for this to happen.

I have had my share of Macs come through that I needed to clean from malware over the years. Not sure why people think "macOS is immune to any form of malware and it's open". Recently one of my clients suffered a ransomware attack on the modern versions of Windows and Windows Servers. Good thing we have backups but they did lose some data due to the time difference between the backups and current data changes.

I don't know why its such a controversial topic to want my phone to be more secure than my computer.