Apple CAN’T do AAA gaming [Merged Megathread]

[Jeven Stobs]

So now it isn’t a numbers game?

… If it was solely a numbers game why’d you even write your last comment?
Obviously it isn’t just about numbers, especially not quantities of vastly different platforms. During its life there have probably been more PS4s than gaming PCs, why’d the devs bother to support Windows?

 

[diamond.g]

… If it was solely a numbers game why’d you even write your last comment?
Obviously it isn’t just about numbers, especially not quantities of vastly different platforms. During its life there have probably been more PS4s than gaming PCs, why’d the devs bother to support Windows?

That is a good question, how many PS4 exclusives were also released on the PC?

Folks say there isn't enough market share, but there are millions of Macs out in the wild (AS + Intel) but AAA gaming on a Mac is on drip feed.

 

[orionquest]

Yup, not to mention the whole trying to upgrade your gaming setup without having to throw away the entire thing.

Yes and GPU options. I was a long time red team, when I switch to Nivida it's was another night vrs day shift. Great cards.

 

[orionquest]

Folks say there isn't enough market share, but there are millions of Macs out in the wild (AS + Intel) but AAA gaming on a Mac is on drip feed.

This thread keeps going in circles. Stop ignoring what has been said and you will have your answer.

 

[jav6454]

Yes and GPU options. I was a long time red team, when I switch to Nivida it's was another night vrs day shift. Great cards.

My first PC was team Red, but I never fully embraced either one as "fanboy". My second one is a GTX card, I just bought what $/performance and performance/watt was best. Right now, I feel it's an either or, but not both anymore.

 

[diamond.g]

This thread keeps going in circles. Stop ignoring what has been said and you will have your answer.

As a card (or is it desktop?) carrying member of PCMR, I feel like Mac users (I am one of those as well) should also be able to enjoy the same games that PCMR folk get to.

 

[JMacHack]

As a card (or is it desktop?) carrying member of PCMR, I feel like Mac users (I am one of those as well) should also be able to enjoy the same games that PCMR folk get to.

I don’t think anyone is particularly against that.

These threads usually revolve around bitching at Apple to bring more games to the Mac somehow (and one sad individual who has to prove PC superiority).

I think the answer will always be that the potential profit for treating MacOS as a priority doesn’t outweigh the costs. Credible sources always come back to marketshare.

 

[Jeven Stobs]

Saying there are millions of Macs is like saying there are millions ofPlaystations. Correct, but how many of those are PS2s and 3s?
I agree that market share alone won't do much if the systems just aren't capable, but hey are increasingly becoming just that. Mx are the start with headroom for years. The age of gaming on Mac might start if, and only if, WWDC this year won't be another marketing gig and focuses on gaming (among other things).

 

[Colstan]

These threads usually revolve around bitching at Apple to bring more games to the Mac somehow (and one sad individual who has to prove PC superiority).

This is essentially it. I've tried numerous times in these threads to discuss the topic, but it becomes a circular argument, if not a circular firing squad. To put it more charitably, these threads are support groups for folks who want more of their favorite games on the Mac, which is a sentiment I share, but my personal impact is limited beyond purchasing and playing Mac specific titles, hence supporting the companies who develop for the Mac.

Complaining about it on the MR forums may be cathartic; a way to blow off steam, but Apple isn't going to gobble up "AAA" gaming studios because a few nerds on the internet think they know how to run Apple's business better than the company executives.

As far as people who come here specifically to convert us Mac plebeians to the PC cause, see the light and change our ways, well that's a pointless endeavor, and rather sad. The most important thing to me is being able to run macOS, and that x86 ship sailed long ago. Teraflops and gigahertz are meaningless if you can't run your preferred operating system on that system.

 

[Irishman]

Yup, not to mention the whole trying to upgrade your gaming setup without having to throw away the entire thing.

Yeah, but it’s not going to suddenly stop working when you want to upgrade your gaming setup. Who is holding a gun to your head to force you to throw it away? You’ve no doubt heard of resell markets like eBay?

I think you might be worried about nothing.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

This is essentially it. I've tried numerous times in these threads to discuss the topic, but it becomes a circular argument, if not a circular firing squad. To put it more charitably, these threads are support groups for folks who want more of their favorite games on the Mac, which is a sentiment I share, but my personal impact is limited beyond purchasing and playing Mac specific titles, hence supporting the companies who develop for the Mac.

Thats why a lot of “gaming” threads that are started get pulled into this Megathread. They’re all the same discussions over and over again.

 

[jav6454]

Yeah, but it’s not going to suddenly stop working when you want to upgrade your gaming setup. Who is holding a gun to your head to force you to throw it away? You’ve no doubt heard of resell markets like eBay?

I think you might be worried about nothing.

Huh? Did you understand what I meant there?

 

[Irishman]

Huh? Did you understand what I meant there?

I’ve no idea what you meant to say, only what you did say.

 

[Irishman]

And a Mac serves how well as a console right now? Or as a TV box?
Again, different markets.

Between the PS5 and the M1 Macs, only one of these things is a first generation device, and performs like one.

 

[jav6454]

I’ve no idea what you meant to say, only what you did say.

With PCs (vast mayority) if you want to upgrade a component, you can. With Macs, in general, you can't as each Mac has soldered in components making it next to impossible.

Hence, with a Mac, if you want better component, you usually have to "throw out" a Mac. In other words, you have to sell it, trade it or give it away. You can't use the same Mac.

 

[Irishman]

With PCs (vast mayority) if you want to upgrade a component, you can. With Macs, in general, you can't as each Mac has soldered in components making it next to impossible.

Hence, with a Mac, if you want better component, you usually have to "throw out" a Mac. In other words, you have to sell it, trade it or give it away. You can't use the same Mac.

Are you really suggesting that Macs, in general, are non upgradable? Well, I guess I could have been wrong, but I was so certain that I was using an upgradable tower back in the day, and that was a Mac tower. I mean, you seem so sure that you know what you’re talking about, that Macs can’t be upgraded (RAM, HD, PCI-GPUs).

You wouldn’t be talking out of your rear end, would you?

 

[orionquest]

Are you really suggesting that Macs, in general, are non upgradable? Well, I guess I could have been wrong, but I was so certain that I was using an upgradable tower back in the day, and that was a Mac tower. I mean, you seem so sure that you know what you’re talking about, that Macs can’t be upgraded (RAM, HD, PCI-GPUs).

You wouldn’t be talking out of your rear end, would you?

Yes that is what they are suggesting and it's a fact the current state of Mac's are not upgradeable. Show us a current mac system which is upgradedable (any of these RAM, HD, or GPU) besides the over engineered and over priced MacPro.

Go on we'll wait.

 

[jav6454]

Are you really suggesting that Macs, in general, are non upgradable? Well, I guess I could have been wrong, but I was so certain that I was using an upgradable tower back in the day, and that was a Mac tower. I mean, you seem so sure that you know what you’re talking about, that Macs can’t be upgraded (RAM, HD, PCI-GPUs).

You wouldn’t be talking out of your rear end, would you?

Can you upgrade your Mac Studio, Mac mini, iMac, or MacBook line? No, and if you can, marginally. Can you upgrade a Mac Pro? Yes, with limited options.

So yes, my argument stands. Please, do not compare a PC to a Mac in terms of upgradeability. In that respect, the PC market outright wins. Want to swap a desktop CPU? Easy. RAM? Go ahead. SSD? No issues. Add a GPU, just make sure it fits and you have slots.

 

[Homy]

Add a GPU, just make sure it fits and you have slots.

Just make sure you have the money to pay for the GPU and the electricity bill for the huge PSU. 😄

 

[jav6454]

Just make sure you have the money to pay for the GPU and the electricity bill for the huge PSU. 😄

In theory, if one is upgrading a CPU, it's because you already have the required PSU. But yes, I understand your joke. Like back when GTX400 card series required a dedicated 1GW Nuclear Reactor to power it coupled with a dedicated 150 meter high cooling tower to keep it at 100*C.

 

[jmho]

Can you upgrade your Mac Studio, Mac mini, iMac, or MacBook line? No, and if you can, marginally. Can you upgrade a Mac Pro? Yes, with limited options.

So yes, my argument stands. Please, do not compare a PC to a Mac in terms of upgradeability. In that respect, the PC market outright wins. Want to swap a desktop CPU? Easy. RAM? Go ahead. SSD? No issues. Add a GPU, just make sure it fits and you have slots.

I used to "upgrade" iMacs each year, where I'd sell the previous years model and buy the newer version and usually only have to pay less than $1000 each year and in return I'd get the latest CPU, GPU, RAM, SSD, screen upgrades etc.

Upgrading my PC tends to be a domino effect where I'll want a new monitor so I go out and buy an LG OLED and suddenly find out that my 2080 doesn't support HDMI 2.1, so I guess I should buy a 3080 if I want 120hz, and now I see my CPU is bottlenecking it so I should probably pick up an Intel 12th gen, but now I need a new motherboard and RAM and cooler and hmm maybe my PSU isn't powerful enough.... and suddenly I've basically just built a brand new computer and selling the old PC parts is a nightmare compared to selling a used Mac.

That's not to say PCs aren't infinitely more upgradeable than Macs, but just that for more than adding more storage it's not always as plug and play or economical as it sounds.

 

[Irishman]

Yes that is what they are suggesting and it's a fact the current state of Mac's are not upgradeable. Show us a current mac system which is upgradedable (any of these RAM, HD, or GPU) besides the over engineered and over priced MacPro.

Go on we'll wait.

I won’t allow my discussion into what counts or qualifies as an upgradable Mac tower to be framed by your arbitrary cherry-picking, because pricing notwithstanding, Apple’s tower configurations have always been upgradable in the manner that you’re saying they’re not (because reasons?)

I’m willing to discuss relative pricing issues with comparable PC towers only, not the $1000 starter configuration you can find at any retailer.

 

[Irishman]

Can you upgrade your Mac Studio, Mac mini, iMac, or MacBook line? No, and if you can, marginally. Can you upgrade a Mac Pro? Yes, with limited options.

So yes, my argument stands. Please, do not compare a PC to a Mac in terms of upgradeability. In that respect, the PC market outright wins. Want to swap a desktop CPU? Easy. RAM? Go ahead. SSD? No issues. Add a GPU, just make sure it fits and you have slots.

I don’t own a Mac Studio, Mac mini, or MacBook. I do own a late 2012 iMac, which I have upgraded the internal HD to an SSD (specifically a Samsung 2.5” EVO one). It was like buying a new Mac, honestly!

Please, provide some documentation for your assertion, because all you’ve done is state your opinion on the matter. Do you accept that there are more legitimate views than those who agree with you?

As I said earlier in this thread, I have bought with my own money an upgradable Mac tower.

Have you? How much experience with gaming on the Mac do you have?

 

[Colstan]

Are you really suggesting that Macs, in general, are non upgradable? Well, I guess I could have been wrong, but I was so certain that I was using an upgradable tower back in the day, and that was a Mac tower. I mean, you seem so sure that you know what you’re talking about, that Macs can’t be upgraded (RAM, HD, PCI-GPUs).

Can you upgrade your Mac Studio, Mac mini, iMac, or MacBook line? No, and if you can, marginally. Can you upgrade a Mac Pro? Yes, with limited options.

In an attempt to find some comity in this argument, you are both right.

During the Intel era, Macs were reasonably upgradable. I've owned four Mac minis, and I did upgrades to each of them. I replaced the hard drive and memory in the PPC unit, then both of those, along the CPU, in the first Intel model, then the memory again in a 2011 mini, and now I've added an eGPU and replaced the RAM in my 2018 Mac mini.

That's all in the past. With the move to Apple Silicon, the Mac is now much more a black box, hidden within untold wizardry and driven by fell magic. Apple isn't locking down the Mac to be mean, they are doing it because of the substantial benefits it provides. It gives all of the components of the SoC, such as the CPU and GPU, equal access to the high-speed on-package system memory. It reduces complexity by putting the SSD controller and other logic on-board. It significantly reduces latency because data doesn't need to be shuttled around from different components on the motherboard. That also means fewer points of failure that might require warranty service. This is the implementation of Apple's historical vertical integration strategy that Steve Jobs could have only dreamed of for the Mac.

There are real, tangible benefits to the consumer, and fits in with Apple's business model and engineering philosophy. The downside is that we can no longer replace various components, but system upgrades are already a niche market done by us nerds, and the benefits outweigh losing that capability, even for those of us who have done that in the past.

 

[DarthVader!]

Are you really suggesting that Macs, in general, are non upgradable?

In general, most Mac models are not upgradeable.