Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't think it's as simple as natural selection from birth. Some men like blondes, brunettes, tall, short, slim, fat, etc. I think we are conditioned to find certain things attractive in other people. Some people chose to act on those impulses, others chose to control them and act in other ways. Either way it's still an active choice that we all make.

You really go on and on and on about things you clearly know very little about. Sure, you try. You even type things into Google to find things that support your current beliefs. You can keep stomping your feet insisting upon your prejudicial beliefs--for whatever reason you so choose. But in the end, you know you and those who share your bigoted beliefs are losing. Badly. The tide has shifted for good. Equal rights are upon us and you've lost. Thank God for that.

Now you have a few choices. (1) you can actually listen to those who are trying to open your eyes to the truth. (2) you can continue on your same path and end up having your grand kids shake their heads at you when you rant about gays, just like I did when my grandpa dropped "n-bombs" or any other racial/ethnic slur. Your choice.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BECAUSE YOU MADE ME:

Seriously you people. I hope you have never eaten an oyster, mussel, clam, shrimp, prawn, lobster, crayfish, crab, cuttlefish, octopus, or squid EVER in your life, because you hellfire is all that is awaits you in the afterlife.

Eating Shellfish

Leviticus 11:10 ESV
But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is detestable to you.

Leviticus 11:9 ESV
“These you may eat, of all that are in the waters. Everything in the waters that has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers, you may eat.

Romans 14:1-23 ESV
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Genesis 9:3 ESV
Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

Leviticus 11:9-12 ESV
“These you may eat, of all that are in the waters. Everything in the waters that has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers, you may eat. But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is detestable to you. You shall regard them as detestable; you shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall detest their carcasses. Everything in the waters that has not fins and scales is detestable to you.

Leviticus 11:1-47 ESV
And the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, These are the living things that you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth. Whatever parts the hoof and is cloven-footed and chews the cud, among the animals, you may eat. Nevertheless, among those that chew the cud or part the hoof, you shall not eat these: The camel, because it chews the cud but does not part the hoof, is unclean to you. And the rock badger, because it chews the cud but does not part the hoof, is unclean to you.

…BUT!

Hebrews 8:13 ESV
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Leviticus 19:19 ESV
“You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material.

OH **** WE ARE SCREWED


Oh Jesus I have so so many more examples of religious laws we ALL break every day. Point is, stop cherry-picking scripture to fit your own biases when there is so much internal contradiction to start with and too much cherry-picking retro-fitting bullcrap going on that is oh so transparent to the rest of the thinking world.

Look, I am not even a die-hard atheist. I fully appreciate the role religion can have in a person's life for the BETTERMENT of the psyche and life of that individual and their immediate community. It's when religion starts to become a tool of politics, policy, and to oppress of minorities and minority voices it becomes a problem.

And in this case: How the hell can you let one individual's life-choices, whether guided by genetic material, personal choices, or even divine intervention in any way, bad or good, affect your own choice of a tech product?

If you do, please remove yourself from civilized society and move to one of those countries you probably already deem to be less civilized, based on the very same reasoning you make judging people around you less privileged, but on a more extreme level. The irony is profoundly compounding and once you realise that, then maybe. Just maybe you are one step closer to becoming a real human being. Instead of just a ****ing *******.
 
Last edited:
I thought there was one bit in Mark with the adulterous woman and the stoning, turning the other cheek etc etc.

That wasn't really upholding the OT - eye for an eye and all that.

I quote from John chapter 8

At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women.Now what do you say?” 6They were using this question as a trap,in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

Why didn't Jesus have the Jews stone the immoral woman? He was within his rights to command it. Because where Justice allows Mercy to be shown, God prefers that. There is also the fact that no doubt many of the accusing Jews had committed sins that were also worthy of death under the Law made their intention of carrying out the death sentence highly hypocritcal. Fortunately, Jesus was in a position to pardon the woman.

Jesus teaches that anyone who commits sin is worthy of death, but he does not want us to die. That is why he took our just punishment on the cross. He paid the honor debt due to God for our willfully vile and hurtful behavior. But we cannot benefit from that sacrifice unless we admit our sinfulness and turn away (repent) from our wrong doing.

So to sort of answer your baited question: I feel saddened that death is the sentence for all sin and glad that Jesus has made it possible for us to live if we submit to his commands.

----------

Please let us not get into a ****ing debate again about lobsters and mixed fabric clothing and stoning . Because, yeah, it's not pretty.

I covered that elsewhere already. Jews were required to follow that. Not gentiles. It is a tired and silly objection against Christianity that is based on a schoolboy-level misunderstanding Scripture.
 
You said" "Like with most people who spread hatred, including even atheists too at times, my standard response is, 'Jesus hung out with the lepers & prostitutes, but he would probably not hang out with you.'"

You seem to be implying that Jesus didn't call people out on their sin. Are you aware of what Jesus said about his ministry when the Pharisees accused him of hanging with sinners? According to Mark 2:17, he said:

“It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Jesus hung out with people to reveal their sin and call them to repentance. The NT is very clear on his bluntness about this. He told his disciples this in Matthew 10:14-15:

14"Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15"Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

In case you are unaware, God pretty much nuked Sodom and Gomorrah. But this is not what he wants to have to do to even the most vile of his children. He doesn't want us to have to suffer the consequences of our wrongheaded behavior. He wants us to admit our wrong behavior is wrong, stop it, and turn back to decency. Then there will be healing in our homes, our schools, and halls of business.

Haters always make reference to Sodom as if it's a homosexual reference, but it is not. Yes, the word sodomy comes from it, but sodomy is not an exclusive homosexual thing nor even practiced by many homosexuals. To be true, sodomy throughout time has been practiced mostly by heterosexuals and still is mostly practiced by heterosexuals, even married ones to this day.

Now you have me thinking of a quote by the Russian Orthodox Church leader who just recently said that sodomy is not natural and an aberration of Christian teachings and natural science. He went on to state that homosexuality is not found in nature or in animals except for homosexual humans on earth today. This is how the Russian Church justifies the gay bashings in Moscow as godly and following God's orders for mankind. Of course homosexuality and various forms of non-heterosexuality have been scientifically found in hundreds or more species on earth from monkeys & apes down to lower forms of life, and even dogs and cats. His words are in the HBO documentary HUNTED: The War Against Gays in Russia.

As for my comment about Jesus hanging out with the lepers & prostitutes, Jesus never condoned prostitution but he didn't condemn them to death either. By your interpretation though, leprosy would not be a disease, but a sin and therefor those people should just be condemned to death. Back in the day, they didn't know that leprosy was curable, they didn't know that homosexuality was a law of nature. Prostitution however is a choice.

You're not winning many points here by the way and still no one has found a quote from Jesus condemning homosexuality.
 
Last edited:
And if Jesus had upheld all that you say, he wouldn't have been crucified then would he? Uh huh.

He was crucified because the Jewish leaders didn't like him calling them out on their sin ... much like what we see with this debate on homosexuality.

And let's get back to Red Lobster... I assume you eat no shellfish right? Therefor eating at Red Lobster would be a sin punishable by death according to your Jesus.

Nope, I'm not Jewish. That law about shellfish held only for Jews.

----------

But what about people who don't believe in YOUR religion and don't accept it as truth? It's nothing personal, I don't believe in the tooth fairy either.

I pray for them.
 
I don't have any attractions towards the same sex. If I did I would have a choice to make, follow them or ignore them. Don't see why that is a problem.

So if you only had attractions to people of the same sex your choice would be to be alone or be gay. How is this any different than the choice heterosexual people make?
 
The original claim was about the Nazis killing people in the name of religion during WWII. They did not kill anyone in the name of christianity, quite the opposite. They wanted to elliminate christianity. Hitlers personal views have nothing to do with that. It might be mentioned that in private he practiced different religions and to my knowledge (from people who knew him or were closely associated with him) he was not what would be considered a christian.

It has already been explained that his rhetoric used Christianity and its prevalence in Germany to gain support. If you think that people being manipulated into (at least) passive acceptance of mass genocide is somehow less of a horror story because the man behind it has different personal views than what he spouted, you are clearly clinging to that distinction to fit a worldview.
 
I covered that elsewhere already. Jews were required to follow that. Not gentiles. It is a tired and silly objection against Christianity that is based on a schoolboy-level misunderstanding Scripture.
Oh please. :rolleyes:

You know that thing about cherry-picking scripture? That's just the ticket. I fully expect you to cherry pick a verse right now in this reply to support your JEWS ONLY claim.
 
He was crucified because the Jewish leaders didn't like him calling them out on their sin ... much like what we see with this debate on homosexuality.



Nope, I'm not Jewish. That law about shellfish held only for Jews.

----------



I pray for them.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that Jesus was against homosexuality because he strictly followed Jewish law aka the OT, then say you follow the Bible but can eat shellfish and be a Christian.

Still waiting for an anti-homosexuality quote from JESUS.... tick tock.

Guess what? YOU CAN'T FIND ONE! HAHA!
 
You really go on and on and on about things you clearly know very little about. Sure, you try. You even type things into Google to find things that support your current beliefs. You can keep stomping your feet insisting upon your prejudicial beliefs--for whatever reason you so choose. But in the end, you know you and those who share your bigoted beliefs are losing. Badly. The tide has shifted for good. Equal rights are upon us and you've lost. Thank God for that.

Now you have a few choices. (1) you can actually listen to those who are trying to open your eyes to the truth. (2) you can continue on your same path and end up having your grand kids shake their heads at you when you rant about gays, just like I did when my grandpa dropped "n-bombs" or any other racial/ethnic slur.Your choice.

I speak my mind. Always have, always will. I don't think I'm right or wrong. They're just my views. You can disagree if you want, I really don't care. Nor do I care if the pro-gay lobby jump up and down stamping their little feet at every opportunity because it's a free country and I don't have to take a blind bit of notice. I won't vote for pro-gay politicians and I certainly won't support any of their campaigns with my time or my money. I won't actively campaign against them as it's enough for me to cast my vote and let the majority decide the laws of my country. I don't respect you and I'm sure you don't respect me. With that I bid you all a fond farewell as I have more important things to do with my time right now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Haters always make reference to Sodom as if it's a homosexual reference, but it is not. Yes, the word sodomy comes from it, but sodomy is not an exclusive homosexual thing nor even practiced by many homosexuals. To be true, sodomy throughout time has been practiced mostly by heterosexuals and still is mostly practiced by heterosexuals, even married ones to this day.

Here is a little known bible fact from Ezekiel 16:49 "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." By that verse, we might have called portly miserly people Sodomites. It is interesting how language gets used. Of course, these were hardly the only sins of Sodom.

Now you have me thinking of a quote by the Russian Orthodox Church leader who just recently said that sodomy is not natural and an aberration of Christian teachings and natural science. He went on to state that homosexuality is not found in nature or in animals except for homosexual humans on earth today. This is how the Russian Church justifies the gay bashings in Moscow as godly and following God's orders for mankind. Of course homosexuality and various forms of non-heterosexuality have been scientifically found in hundreds or more species on earth from monkeys & apes down to lower forms of life, and even dogs and cats. His words are in the HBO documentary HUNTED: The War Against Gays in Russia.

I don't really care what is done in nature. Not every adaptation is necessarily beneficial. I care what God says is the right way of handling our sexuality. Moreover, I have no wish to rule on what is and is not appropriate for a married couple to do to each other in the bedroom. I don't see where I have any Scriptural authority to do so.
 
Keep my mouth shut and morons like you win. I speak my mind. Always have, always will. I don't think I'm right or wrong. They're just my views. You can disagree if you want, I really don't care. Nor do I care if the pro-gay lobby jump up and down stamping their little feet at every opportunity because it's a free country and I don't have to take a blind bit of notice. I won't vote for pro-gay politicians and I certainly won't support any of their campaigns with my time or my money. I won't actively campaign against them as it's enough for me to cast my vote and let the majority decide the laws of my country. I don't respect you and I'm sure you don't respect me. With that I bid you all a fond farewell as I have more important things to do with my time right now.

That's not possible. Nothing is more important than MacRumors!:eek:
 
Keep my mouth shut and morons like you win. I speak my mind. Always have, always will. I don't think I'm right or wrong. They're just my views. You can disagree if you want, I really don't care.

Oh your God. I have never seen so many self-contradicting sentences that close to each other. Please for the love of your God never type a single word in this thread ever again.
 
It has already been explained that his rhetoric used Christianity and its prevalence in Germany to gain support. If you think that people being manipulated into (at least) passive acceptance of mass genocide is somehow less of a horror story because the man behind it has different personal views than what he spouted, you are clearly clinging to that distinction to fit a worldview.
WTF? I do not think that this genocide is less of a horror story. I never wrote anything like that!
 
You can't have it both ways. You can't say that Jesus was against homosexuality because he strictly followed Jewish law aka the OT, then say you follow the Bible but can eat shellfish and be a Christian.

Still waiting for an anti-homosexuality quote from JESUS.... tick tock.

Guess what? YOU CAN'T FIND ONE! HAHA!

HyperZboy, there is no direct quote of Jesus condemning homosexuality. He didn't need to deliver one. He already affirmed the Law which condemned it.

Are you aware that the OT law was divided into ceremonial, Judicial/Civil Law and moral regulations? The ceremonial and priestly portions were fulfilled with Christ's sacrifice on the cross. The moral regulations are still in place. FYI, shellfish fell under the ceremonial category.

The early Church fathers were specifically instructed in Acts not to make Gentiles follow Jewish ceremonial law (Acts 15). If you wish to willfully ignore these facts, I cannot help you.

----------

Oh please. :rolleyes:

You know that thing about cherry-picking scripture? That's just the ticket. I fully expect you to cherry pick a verse right now in this reply to support your JEWS ONLY claim.

Go read Acts 15. That has your answer. I've covered this elsewhere too many times to keep repeating myself.

Here, I'll even copy/drop it and boldface the most important parts:

The Council at Jerusalem
15 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’
18 things known from long ago.[c]
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

The apostles and elders, your brothers,

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.Farewell.
 
Last edited:
Are you awre that the OT law was divided into ceremonial, priestly and moral regulations? The ceremonial and priestly portions were fulfilled with Christ's sacrifice on the cross. The moral regulations are still in place. FYI, shellfish fell under the ceremonial category.

Source?
 
Here is a little known bible fact from Ezekiel 16:49 "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." By that verse, we might have called portly miserly people Sodomites. It is interesting how language gets used. Of course, these were hardly the only sins of Sodom.



I don't really care what is done in nature. Not every adaptation is necessarily beneficial. I care what God says is the right way of handling our sexuality. Moreover, I have no wish to rule on what is and is not appropriate for a married couple to do to each other in the bedroom. I don't see where I have any Scriptural authority to do so.

Once again you've contradicted yourself. You can't have it 18 ways just to satisfy your hatred for homosexuals. Ok, so now what heterosexuals do in their bedrooms is exempt from your god's religious beliefs. By continually contradicting yourself, quoting Old Testament, then stating you're exempt since you're not a Jew, but yet by extension attempting to quote Jesus against homosexuality is nothing short of dysfunctional thinking. In the end, you're not quoting Jesus or God. You're quoting yourself in a dysfunctional Connect the Dots Game that doesn't connect nor apply to you! HAHA!

That is why I stated that Jesus hung out with the lepers and prostitutes. It's because they were despised by your society which Jesus criticized for being hypocrites! The Pharisees looked down upon the lepers, the poor, the prostitutes, yet used them discreetly for their own personal gain anyway. Basically, you've just described the modern day version of the TV evangelist minister. And if Jesus were here today, he would be going after THEM, not homosexuals. Jesus did not hang out with the Pharisees, which is exactly the type of person you're describing yourself as.

You can't just quote the OT against homosexuals, state Jesus supported all OT teachings therefor against homosexuality, confuse Sodom with homosexuality, exempt yourself from certain Jewish OT laws and then judge other people.

You are EXACTLY the type of person that the Jesus I read in the Bible would NOT hang around and would in fact tear down your false logic as I have just done.
 
All these laws that supposedly only apply to Jews, and yet, most Jews have realized that they are longer relevant in today's world and eat pork and shellfish.

If Jews can ignore antiquated laws regarding what people eat, why are Christians still clinging on to antiquated laws regarding who people love?
 
My final thought on this subject...

Fundamentalists will always find a quote to prove whatever hatred or myth (the ark and dinosaurs) they want to support and preserve, but they still cannot find a quote from Jesus condemning homosexuality.

I gave them enough time. They keep finding Old Testament quotes, but Jesus criticized the Old Testament as well as the Pharisees. That's why they crucified him. Haters state that Jesus affirmed the laws against homosexuality, but cannot find any quotes that he really did himself.

To those that keep finding Sodom references, once again it does NOT mean homosexuality. Only does in your simple mind.

No one has found a quote from Jesus condemning homosexuality.

See you all at the Red Lobster all you heathens. :D

CASE CLOSED.

----------

All these laws that supposedly only apply to Jews, and yet, most Jews have realized that they are longer relevant in today's world and eat pork and shellfish.

If Jews can ignore antiquated laws regarding what people eat, why are Christians still clinging on to antiquated laws regarding who people love?

Thank You! Well said.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.