Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Apple CEO Tim Cook Publicly Comes Out as Gay in Letter Declaring Support for Equality

Status
Not open for further replies.
wovel said:
Lol, what. You have to be able to prove that God doesn't exist? Do people of "faith" have to prove God does exist? The ludicrousness of that is almost impossible to fathom.
Click to expand...

hmm.. that's not really what i was saying.

if you claim you're an atheist, you're putting yourself into a category (an 'ist') which limits yourself from true exploration of knowledge.

it makes a battle line Theist vs Atheist as if those are the only two choices..
similar to democrat vs republican.. if you play that game and latch on to one identity vs the other then you're severely limited in the type of thinking you can build on top of this core identity..

if you widen your view or step back a little bit, you'll see republicans and democrats are actually the exact same thing.. similar thing happens with atheist/theist.

you don't have to be an ist/ism.. you don't have to latch on to these types of things.. we identify ourselves this way because the fear of the unknown.. most religious people do this as god makes them feel safe.. if you go around saying/thinking "i'm an atheist -- that's what club i'm in", well, you're doing the same thing.
 
HyperZboy said:
So now what heterosexuals do in their bedrooms is exempt from your god's religious beliefs.
Click to expand...

Did I say that or are you willfully misconstruing my words? Would you care to share with me the Scriptures that describe what a man and woman are allowed and not allowed to do with one another in the bedroom? I'm very interested in seeing your exegetical thesis on the topic.

HyperZboy said:
By continually contradicting yourself, quoting Old Testament, then stating you're exempt since you're not a Jew, but yet by extension attempting to quote Jesus against homosexuality is nothing short of dysfunctional thinking. In the end, you're not quoting Jesus or God. You're quoting yourself in a dysfunctional Connect the Dots Game that doesn't connect nor apply to you! HAHA!
Click to expand...
Well now, this discussion has truly devolved to a petty level. I am afraid I cannot keep up with your non sequiturs.

HyperZboy said:
That is why I stated that Jesus hung out with the lepers and prostitutes. It's because they were despised by your society which Jesus criticized for being hypocrites! The Pharisees looked down upon the lepers, the poor, the prostitutes, yet used them discreetly for their own personal gain anyway. Basically, you've just described the modern day version of the TV evangelist minister. And if Jesus were here today, he would be going after THEM, not homosexuals. Jesus did not hang out with the Pharisees, which is exactly the type of person you're describing yourself as.
Click to expand...

HyperZboy, you state that Jesus didn't hang out with the Pharasees. Are you aware of Luke 7:36? "36Now one of the Pharisees was requesting Him to dine with him, and He entered the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. 37And there was a woman in the city who was a sinner; and when she learned that He was reclining at the table in the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster vial of perfume,…"
He had some humiliating words to say to the unrepentant Pharisee by the way.

Jesus showed great compassion and lenience on the sinners who came to him convicted of their sin. He had very scary words for the sinners who refused to acknowledge their sin.

HyperZboy said:
You can't just quote the OT against homosexuals, state Jesus supported all OT teachings therefor against homosexuality, confuse Sodom with homosexuality, exempt yourself from certain Jewish OT laws and then judge other people.
Click to expand...

I've given you the proof texts and you have yet to quote me one scripture (that I can recall). I'd say you have failed to make your case. As for me judging others, to what are you referring to exactly? That I say that homosexuality is wrong? It is, of course according to the Bible. I've already given you the verse in Lev 20 as proof-text. There are others in the NT if you need them.

In what way did I confuse Sodom with homosexuality?

HyperZboy said:
You are EXACTLY the type of person that the Jesus I read in the Bible would NOT hang around and would in fact tear down your false logic as I have just done.
Click to expand...

Sadly we are at the point where I must politely tell you that you saying a thing does not necessarily make it so.

----------
Eraserhead said:
Which makes it clear that Christians aren't bound by the moral law so...
Click to expand...

Where do you get that idea from? Some churches (to their peril) teach this.
 
Last edited:
I think its pretty obvious Jesus was gay - I mean look at him! Look at that hot, sexy, well groomed Jesus! He's got gay written all over him.

4d67d8c4ad794d65a603e9db4c0a0b0a.jpg
 
brianvictor7 said:
Did I say that or are you willfully misconstruing my words? Would you care to share with me the Scriptures that describe what a man and woman are allowed and not allowed to do with one another in the bedroom? I'm very interested in seeing your exegetical thesis on the topic.


Well now, this discussion has truly devolved to a petty level. I am afraid I cannot keep up with your non sequiturs.



HyperZboy, you state that Jesus didn't hang out with the Pharasees. Are you aware of Luke 7:36? "36Now one of the Pharisees was requesting Him to dine with him, and He entered the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. 37And there was a woman in the city who was a sinner; and when she learned that He was reclining at the table in the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster vial of perfume,…"
He had some humiliating words to say to the unrepentant Pharisee by the way.

Jesus showed great compassion and lenience on the sinners who came to Jesus convicted of their sin. He had very scary words for the sinners who refused to acknowledge their sin.



I've given you the proof texts and you have yet to quote me one scripture. I'd say you have failed to make your case. As for me judging others, to what are you referring to exactly? That I say that homosexuality is wrong? It is? I've given you the verse in Lev 20. There are others in the NT if you need them. In what way did I confuse Sodom with homosexuality?



Sadly we are at the point where I must politely tell you that you saying a thing does not necessarily make it so.

----------



Where do you get that idea from? Some churches (to their peril) teach this.
Click to expand...

Which Church do you belong to?

I'm a particular fan of Betty Bowers

Betty Bowers

In all seriousness though, I don't believe in a god therefore I don't believe homosexuality is a sin so I am not a sinner. I'm by no means perfect and have done a few things I regret but the fact that I'm going to go home tonight and cook a rather mediocre meal for my (homosexual) partner who has spent 12 hours curing the sick (possibly more effectively than Jesus did by using antibiotics and stuff) then watch a BBC4 documentary about some ancient civilisation before going to bed and listening to a podcast on the history of Germany hardly warrants pigeon holing me with murderers and rapists.
 
Last edited:
vampyr said:
Just curious why you consider it courageous?
Click to expand...

Well, how many closeted gays and lesbians are in the public eye who have chosen NOT to come out?

Apple sell products in some very homophobic countries and yes, there is a risk of negative feedback, not only to Apple as a company, but to Mr. Cook as CEO with respect to negotiations, etc. If Mr. Cook didn't recognize a certain level of risk to his company's brand, he would not have notified Apple's board of his decision to come out, I think.

Additionally, as a gay person I think it was a courageous act on his part.
 
lamerica80 said:
I think its pretty obvious Jesus was gay - I mean look at him! Look at that hot, sexy, well groomed Jesus! He's got gay written all over him.

Image
Click to expand...

Fit.

----------
brianvictor7 said:
I worship with the churches of Christ. Same kind that the Duck Dynasty fellas attend (funny I've never seen an episode of their show but I hear it is good).
Click to expand...

A church established in the 19th Century?

To quote Betty Bowers
I don't even have furniture that young!
Click to expand...
 
There are certainly a lot of replies here. It has come to my attention that we are not all on the same page here. :rolleyes:

Am I the only one who could care less if people come out or not? I mean I don't go around advertising my heterosexuality. I know to most people they think the more people that come out the more people will accept it, but how does that logic work? If people are opposed to it, they are opposed to it. So, that's not exactly a valid argument because everyone else is doing it, it must be ok. That's been said a lot through the ages and look where that has gotten us. :confused:
 
Ambush083 said:
There are certainly a lot of replies here. It has come to my attention that we are not all on the same page here. :rolleyes:

Am I the only one who could care less if people come out or not? I mean I don't go around advertising my heterosexuality. I know to most people they think the more people that come out the more people will accept it, but how does that logic work? If people are opposed to it, they are opposed to it. So, that's not exactly a valid argument because everyone else is doing it, it must be ok. That's been said a lot through the ages and look where that has gotten us. :confused: I'm waiting for the bleeding heart liberals to reply....wait for it...wait for it...
Click to expand...

You are not the only one who could care less, but for those who believe it is a sin, it is a sad thing to see. This is an emotionally charged topic and will always be so long as there are Christians around who believe in the veracity of the Scripture.
 
Ambush083 said:
There are certainly a lot of replies here. It has come to my attention that we are not all on the same page here. :rolleyes:

Am I the only one who could care less if people come out or not? I mean I don't go around advertising my heterosexuality. I know to most people they think the more people that come out the more people will accept it, but how does that logic work? If people are opposed to it, they are opposed to it. So, that's not exactly a valid argument because everyone else is doing it, it must be ok. That's been said a lot through the ages and look where that has gotten us. :confused:
Click to expand...

You don't advertise your heterosexuality? You don't kiss your partner in public? You don't hold hands? You don't talk about them at work to colleagues? You don't say things like "we did this this weekend". That is all something I cannot do at work for fear of experiencing discrimination. You advertise your heterosexuality all the time, you just don't realize it because it is so normalized.

You clearly don't understand how societal norms evolve through time. The truth is that attitudes ARE changing because of the increasing visibility of gay people. You can look at any poll or survey and see that. You can see it in laws being passed.

When someone personally knows a gay person it becomes far more difficult to condemn them as some deviant misfit. Maybe a specific individual's views won't be swayed, but that isn't the point....

Why is it that some people have such a hard time getting past the 'individual' and observing society as a whole? I'll never get that.

Personally I could care less what you think. Mostly because you are wrong.
 
Ambush083 said:
There are certainly a lot of replies here. It has come to my attention that we are not all on the same page here. :rolleyes:

Am I the only one who could care less if people come out or not? I mean I don't go around advertising my heterosexuality. I know to most people they think the more people that come out the more people will accept it, but how does that logic work? If people are opposed to it, they are opposed to it. That's not exactly a valid argument because everyone else is doing it, it must be ok. That's been said a lot through the ages and look where that has gotten us. :confused:
Click to expand...
The logic is that many people don't think they know any gay people, so the image they get of gay people comes from external sources. This was especially true in the 1970s when Harvey Milk made his famous call for everyone to come out.

If the only things you "knew" about gay people was that they prey on children, you'd have a hard time supporting their right to live and work around children.

But if you know that your friend, neighbor, brother, sister or coworker is gay, and you see how they actually live their lives, you're less likely to be swayed by evil people who tell you lies about gay people.

As for advertising your heterosexuality, do you never mention your spouse or whoever you romantically involved with? Do you evade the question if someone asks whether you are married or if you are seeing someone? Do you always go alone to social events to keep from accidentally revealing your heterosexuality? Unless you do these things, you don't get to claim that you don't advertise your sexuality. At least, you don't get to be taken seriously when you make that claim.
 
mattster16 said:
You don't advertise your heterosexuality? You don't kiss your partner in public? You don't hold hands? You don't talk about them at work to colleagues? You don't say things like "we did this this weekend". That is all something I cannot do at work for fear of experiencing discrimination. You advertise your heterosexuality all the time, you just don't realize it because it is so normalized.

The truth is that attitudes ARE changing because of the increasing visibility of gay people. You can look at any poll or survey and see that. You can see it in laws being passed.

When someone personally knows a gay person it becomes far more difficult to condemn them as some deviant misfit. Maybe a specific individual's views won't be swayed, but that isn't the point....

Why is it that some people have such a hard time getting past the 'individual' and observing society as a whole? I'll never get that.
Click to expand...

Very accurate to say that people focus on the individual without paying attention to the broader impact. So often we hear, "What's the harm in doing x y or z sin?" Little drops make a flood.
 
Symtex said:
Can't you see their action are motivated by fear and ignorance ?
Click to expand...

I am quite well aware. Still worth pointing out

Shaun said:
Fair point and I guess you could argue that some people naturally feel that way. However there are a few flaws in that argument. I'm not naturally attracted to women. I find some women attractive but equally find other women quite repulsive. How do you explain that?
Click to expand...

But, you're never attracted to men, right? You are naturally attracted to women, but find specific types of women who actually meet your criteria for what turns you on.

I don't think it's as simple as natural selection from birth. Some men like blondes, brunettes, tall, short, slim, fat, etc. I think we are conditioned to find certain things attractive in other people. Some people chose to act on those impulses, others chose to control them and act in other ways. Either way it's still an active choice that we all make.
Click to expand...

It seems that you are repeatedly missing the point. These people are still gay, or bisexual. They didn't choose that. They just choose specific people they will go out with/have sex with.. That doesn't change anything about their sexuality. You do understand the difference, don't you? If not, it might be time to bow out, as you're kind of in over your head.

----------
brianvictor7 said:
Very accurate to say that people focus on the individual without paying attention to the broader impact. So often we hear, "What's the harm in doing x y or z sin?" Little drops make a flood.
Click to expand...

And what is the impact on you if gay people exist and/or hook up with each other?
 
samiwas said:
I know a gay guy who doesn't do that, so your point is invalid. :rolleyes:

You're saying that because you, yourself, never give any indication whatsoever that you do or don't have a girlfriend/wife, no pictures of her, no mention of her, never hold her hand in public, that it's proof that heterosexual people don't do that?

Only gay people hold hands in public? Only gay people keep photos of their spouse in their desk at work? Only gay people kiss in public? And if not only, is it more frequently gay people who do this? You are so full of it, it's impossible to take you seriously.
Click to expand...
Wow, well alrighty then. Seems you have a lot of issues and obviously have trouble seeing beyond your own nose. Don't forget to take your meds tomorrow. Bye
 
samiwas said:
But, you're never attracted to men, right? You are naturally attracted to women, but find specific types of women who actually meet your criteria for what turns you on.
Click to expand...

I think one of the biggest problems we have around here, and one that Moyank has touched on a number of times, is that we're looking at sexuality as a binary. An either or. The truth is, much like any aspect of human psychology, is that it's a gradient. You don't hear about it often, but there are some people out there who are psychologically asexual. They're not genderless entirely. They identify with their sex, but have no sexuality whatsoever. They're not physically or romantically attracted to anyone. They just don't care.

Stepping up from that, you might have some people, straight or gay, that do have some attraction, but it's only sorta important to them. They don't go out of their way to indulge their sexual needs.

And of course you have sexuality itself, which I believe is a mental function roughly akin to how we're wired to identify human faces. Like some people draw our attention out more than others based on their physical features, mannerisms, and body types. We're wired to respond to certain characteristics. Like straight men will respond to feminine facial features and body types, gay men more masculine, and of course the gender flipped opposite for women. But even that's a gradient. Like some straight men love tough, muscular, built women with some masculine features, while some gay men are attracted to men with feminine features and mannerisms.

The whole thing is a convoluted mess of people wanting to have sex with people based on any number of mixes of predefined traits. While there is some amount of conditioning and nurturing thrown into the mix, it only adds to supplement your natural sexuality, not define it.
 
brianvictor7 said:
Very accurate to say that people focus on the individual without paying attention to the broader impact. So often we hear, "What's the harm in doing x y or z sin?" Little drops make a flood.
Click to expand...

So please, tell us what the broader impact of people being gay is. I'm anxious to hear.
 
brianvictor7 said:
The early Church fathers were specifically instructed in Acts not to make Gentiles follow Jewish ceremonial law (Acts 15). If you wish to willfully ignore these facts, I cannot help you.
Click to expand...

Instructed by who? Paul? He was just an early church leader himself, and someone who never actually met Jesus in person, only in his vision when he fell off the horse.

What I get from those passages you quoted is that early church leaders got together and decided to cherry-pick which OT laws Gentiles had to follow and which ones they didn't. It doesn't prove or disprove anything about Jesus' own views on homosexuality, or on OT law in general.
 
taptic said:
No it's not. Skin color is preset and an obvious fact. This is a mindset and some mindsets can be detrimental.
Click to expand...

Being gay is not a mindset a preference or a choice. OTOH, bigotry and intolerance are, and most detrimental to any society. Educate yourself!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back