Apple CEO Tim Cook Publicly Comes Out as Gay in Letter Declaring Support for Equality

[LordVic]

Who and why, do you think??

I love that the current idea of hell exists for well under the 2,000 years of Christianities existence.

Yet everyone who sins according to them, is going to hell.

what happened to humans who sinned the what? 75,000 odd years?

 

[Renzatic]

nah.. it's the sexual act that matters.. that's what makes the antis upset.

It's the act that some people take exception to, but it's the want that makes you stick your balls in homey's mouth in the first place. If you didn't have the mental wiring driving you to have gay sex, the act itself would never come into play.

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what happened to humans who sinned the what? 75,000 odd years?

They're all in the No Zone.

 

[Happybunny]

I love that the current idea of hell exists for well under the 2,000 years of Christianities existence.

Yet everyone who sins according to them, is going to hell.

what happened to humans who sinned the what? 75,000 odd years?

I demand that you STOP immediately bringing logic into this thread.

 

[matttye]

I love that the current idea of hell exists for well under the 2,000 years of Christianities existence.

Yet everyone who sins according to them, is going to hell.

what happened to humans who sinned the what? 75,000 odd years?

Some people need the promise of reward (heaven) or the threat of punishment (hell) to dictate what they do in their lives. I like to think that the feeling I get from the act itself is enough to guide me in my life - I don't need to think about what will happen later.

 

[flat five]

Rubbish.

What you're suggesting would mean that a male is gay if they are raped by a male, which is quite clearly ridiculous.

lolwhat
it's stupid for me to even try to respond directly to this because I didn't suggest anything of the sorts.
you're doing the suggesting

 

[matttye]

lolwhat
it's stupid for me to even try to respond directly to this because I didn't suggest anything of the sorts.
you're doing the suggesting

The person you quoted said:

"It's not what someone does, but what they're attracted to that determines a persons sexuality."

You said:

"nah.. it's the sexual act that matters.."

If I've misunderstood what you're saying then please explain what you meant because it sure looks like you're saying it's the act itself that determines sexuality and not how someone feels about the act.

 

[flat five]

It's the act that some people take exception to, but it's the want that makes you stick your balls in homey's mouth in the first place. If you didn't have the mental wiring driving you to have gay sex, the act itself would never come into play..

yeah, I'm not really trying to say something opposite or against what you're saying.

just trying to point out the gist of the argument.

I mean, sometimes I feel like punching someone in the face (I really don't.. just saying).. having the desire is acceptable behavior.. once I act on the desire, the whole dynamics change.

 

[brianvictor7]

What if your god doesn't exist and you spent your one and only life trying to please a god so that you will be rewarded in an afterlife that may or may not exist?

I would rather enjoy life, not hate fellow people for enjoying their lives and embracing their sexuality, and die happy knowing that I've had a full life. Carpe Diem and all that.

If there is a god and homosexuality is a sin, then god would've made sexuality a choice, but I have never chosen my sexuality. I am what I am (straight) and I've always been attracted to women.

You have made your choice in Pascal's Wager. Wish I had more time to address this.

As for why are people born with an inclination to all kinds of sin, well, how does that excuse bad behavior?

 

[flat five]

The person you quoted said:

"It's not what someone does, but what they're attracted to that determines a persons sexuality."

You said:

"nah.. it's the sexual act that matters.."

If I've misunderstood what you're saying then please explain what you meant because it sure looks like you're saying it's the act itself that determines sexuality and not how someone feels about the act.

I can tell brianvictor7 (for instance) that I love my best friend and list many examples of why I'm attracted to him and he(bv7) will be ok with it.

I can then add that we also like to get naked together and he(the antigay) will not be ok with it.

it's the homosexual act, in particular, which upsets these people.. it's not the relationship between a man and man

 

[the8thark]

The reasons for moving (or posting) some threads to the PRSI forum were explained in detail in your site feedback thread from earlier this year. The answers you received back then are still applicable today and the nature of the posts made in this thread have confirmed it is in the correct forum.

Only correct if you can't see put the word gay and equality in the same sentence. I understand why you did it and why you believe it's correct. I still stand by what I said and I agree with Tim Cook, that people should treat gay people with equality.

I will only totally agree with you on the day that all articles about straight people are put in PRSI too. The gay section of our community should be treated the same as the straight section of our community. But that is not what is happening. Tim Cook understands this, and that's why he said it wants equality. And I (though not gay) do want the same equality. And leave any judgements up to God.

My site feedback comment you linked has the same issues and as has been said here. And the response given there is the same as you said here. Nothing has changed unfortunately.

 

[Irishman]

Right, a book written thousand of years ago by people who believe the sun orbited the Earth is your reliable source ?

God is a delusion created by man.

Quote me chapter and verse where this is stated, please.

Hint: it's not in there.

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He came out as being homosexual. His sexuality is the core of this discussion. Sexuality generally involves the use of ones sexual organs. No need for fantasy here, this is what he is telling us, which we do not need to hear. From anyone. Period.

Wow. Just....wow. I am straight and a Christian. Why did I not have the same fantasies as you???

 

[bandrews]

I love that the current idea of hell exists for well under the 2,000 years of Christianities existence.

Yet everyone who sins according to them, is going to hell.

what happened to humans who sinned the what? 75,000 odd years?

Just like when the Pope decided unbaptised children wouldn't be stuck in limbo any more in 2007. All the others before that are probably still there.

 

[Irishman]

So for the 53+ years he didn't come out, he wasn't proud of who he was?

That's fine if he wants to have it publicly known, but it's nobody's business otherwise.

Everyone walks their own path. Not for me to judge when or how he walks his.

 

[matttye]

You have made your choice in Pascal's Wager. Wish I had more time to address this.

As for why are people born with an inclination to all kinds of sin, well, how does that excuse bad behavior?

I think you'll find that most acts that are considered a sin result in there being a victim - i.e. some harm is caused to somebody. Who is the victim when there exists a homosexual relationship?

I can tell brianvictor7 (for instance) that I love my best friend and list many examples of why I'm attracted to him and he(bv7) will be ok with it.

I can then add that we also like to get naked together and he(the antigay) will not be ok with it.

it's the homosexual act, in particular, which upsets these people.. it's not the relationship between a man and man

I see what you mean now.

 

[Irishman]

Being gay is not a choice.

Engaging in homosexual intercourse is.

I think they were referring to the latter.

Having the inclination and desire to kill people doesn't make me a murderer (in the eyes of the law, at least).

Killing someone does.

Big difference.

Keep in mind (as one Christian to I think another) that the Bible in the form we have today is not in its original languages. There are many reasons to question the accuracy of the translations that have survived to us. We must defer to the meanings of the words in those original languages, where those meanings are clear.

Now, sometimes those meanings are not so clear, like the Greek word "psuche", and the Hebrew word "nephesh" (having different meanings that can totally change the English translation in foundational meaning).

It's not always easy, but it's necessary.

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Not sure if it's "liberal", but it sure is a bulls**t story.

Should be easy for you to disprove then.

Go ahead.

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Who is spewing hatred? I haven't read a single post in this long thread were anyone would claim that they hate someone.

Then I can only conclude one of two things are true:

1. You skipped to my reply and jumped to conclusions
2. You are incapable of reading when hate occurs in written text.

Which is it?

 

[matttye]

Being gay is not a choice.

Engaging in homosexual intercourse is.

I think they were referring to the latter.

Having the inclination and desire to kill people doesn't make me a murderer (in the eyes of the law, at least).

Killing someone does.

Big difference.

Actually the law usually recognises that a mens rea (guilty mind) must accompany an actus reus (guilty act) in many crimes, murder being one of them in most jurisdictions.

For example, in England you must intend to commit grievous bodily harm or intend to kill someone and actually kill them in order to be a murderer. If you kill them without intending to kill them then you'd probably be guilty of the lesser offence of manslaughter, depending on the circumstances.

 

[Irishman]

The debate is not against animals. It is about human, moral choice. Galatians Chapter 5 is the best explanation for my argument, as it outlines the acts of the sinful nature (man's natural state) and how it is in conflict with the fruit of the Spirit of God, which comes from accepting Christ as your Lord.

With regards to "experimentation", the Bible has this to say, both old and new testaments (again, don't shoot the messenger):

Leviticus 20:13: "'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

1 Corinthians 6:9: "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

So yes, it does say it. Specifically.

However, to that it adds the escape clause, as it were:

1 Timothy 1:9 onwards: "We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus."

You DO realize that some of Paul's teachings were his own words, and EXPLICITLY not speaking for God, right?

 

[Symtex]

Quote me chapter and verse where this is stated, please.

Hint: it's not in there.

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Wow. Just....wow. I am straight and a Christian. Why did I not have the same fantasies as you???

Really ? This was the church position and the accepted scientific explanation up until the Galileo wrote his book. That's the level of education and understanding of the universe people had when your "holy book" was written.

 

[Irishman]

You can say the same thing about Game of Thrones.

There really was a wall that kept out the northern Barbarians. There really was a great chain constructed in a harbour to destroy attacking ships. That doesn't mean white walkers are real though.

The Bible is an example of accounts of some real historical events (for credibility) being mixed up with folk stories, while at the same time skewing facts to promote the views of the authors.

For instance, there is a real salt formation that looks a little bit like a woman looking over a lake, that clearly inspired the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The problem is it's way too big to be an actual woman who got turned into salt, but you can see how the myth developed over time, eventually becoming turned into 'history' cough , by the authors of the Old Testament.

A similar thing happens where the Bible talks about 'the beast' coming from the sea, but it's not talking about the devil, it's talking about the Roman invaders. It's worded that way for anti-Roman propaganda purposes... and very effective it was too.

This thread is quickly becoming a pile-on for other grudges that have nothing to do with Tim's coming out.

 

[mudslag]

Fair point and I guess you could argue that some people naturally feel that way. However there are a few flaws in that argument. I'm not naturally attracted to women. I find some women attractive but equally find other women quite repulsive. How do you explain that?

Honest question, are you just trolling? It's the only thing that makes sense. Is there some magical rule that says regardless of what gender you're attracted to you have to find all people of that gender attractive? Your comment makes zero sense.

I don't think it's as simple as natural selection from birth. Some men like blondes, brunettes, tall, short, slim, fat, etc. I think we are conditioned to find certain things attractive in other people. Some people chose to act on those impulses, others chose to control them and act in other ways. Either way it's still an active choice that we all make.

Attractions are natural, how we react to those attractions are where the choices come in. Just as with your attraction to some women and not others, which woman you choose to be with is where the choice lies, just don't pretend the attraction to X women isn't natural. Same goes for a homosexual person, their attraction to same sex is just as natural. Those people shouldn't be faulted by you or anyone else for following that natural attraction just as you follow yours.

 

[mudslag]

The practice of sexual immorality of all kinds (fornication, adultery, homosexuality, etc) is the root cause of horrific harm: from the idea that we can sleep with someone other than a spouse we facilitate the breaking of families, prostitution, sex trafficking, venereal disease, unwanted pregnancies, etc. Even if a homosexual couple is monogamous, they are, by their lifestyle, approving the climate of sexual immorality, by definition.

Sexual immorality is subjective. Just because you find some of these things immoral does not in anyway mean the next person does.

 

[Irishman]

Really ? This was the church position and the accepted scientific explanation up until the Galileo wrote his book. That's the level of education and understanding of the universe people had when your "holy book" was written.

So, you agree with me that it's not in there, and was much later tradition.

Thanks, mate!

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Don't forget shaving and people who wear cloth made with more than one kind of material... and unicorns! The bible has unicorns, so they must be real...

Chapter and verse for your unicorn claim?

 

[Symtex]

So, you agree with me that it's not in there, and was much later tradition.

Thanks, mate!

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Chapter and verse for your unicorn claim?

You have missed the point entirely. I am not surprised though.

 

[Irishman]

No. Shoot the messenger. For spreading stupid crap that causes endless pain, drives kids to suicide, and divides society....all while hiding behind his book of fairytales, talking down to others, spewing the insulting, condescending garbage his hateful disgusting religion preaches.

Mmm, the baggage is strong in this one...

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According to you, you are the source of right and wrong. Unfortunately, people disagree on that. Morality, by definition, has to be agreed upon, hence our discussion. If you lived in the world alone, morality would not be necessary. If you are to live in peace with others, then it is indispensable.

That said, your last bit sounds quite similar to what Jesus told us to do. See my signature. The question is, how are we to know what you think "good" is, and do the rest of us agree with you?

You're forgetting one little warning to His followers:

"Judge not lest ye be judged".

 

[brianvictor7]

I think you'll find that most acts that are considered a sin result in there being a victim - i.e. some harm is caused to somebody. Who is the victim when there exists a homosexual relationship?

God, the person committing the act, society, especially if something is being spread.

I can tell brianvictor7 (for instance) that I love my best friend and list many examples of why I'm attracted to him and he(bv7) will be ok with it.

I can then add that we also like to get naked together and he(the antigay) will not be ok with it.

it's the homosexual act, in particular, which upsets these people.. it's not the relationship between a man and man

matttye said: I see what you mean now.

Sorry, but that is either a misconstruing of what I said or what I expressed originally wasn't put sufficiently. Temptations are not good things. They are also not sinful to experience, only to indulge them is wrong.

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Sexual immorality is subjective. Just because you find some of these things immoral does not in anyway mean the next person does.

Objective vs subjective is a whole other topic and I'm tapped out on time for now.