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StrokeMidnight

macrumors member
Jun 22, 2007
64
0
These ads really do get Apple where it hurts. Even I am pretty upset over the cost of Macs.

I want a Mac for intensive media creation and I just can't afford one. I had to go buy a Dell Studio XPS 435 and I have to return it, but I'm now going to build a Hackintosh.

In this economy Apple can't keep trying to sell their computers at a premium. Everyone is money conscious and even professionals can't afford the premium for a Mac anymore.
 

slooksterPSV

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2004
3,545
309
Nowheresville
These ads really do get Apple where it hurts. Even I am pretty upset over the cost of Macs.

I want a Mac for intensive media creation and I just can't afford one. I had to go buy a Dell Studio XPS 435 and I have to return it, but I'm now going to build a Hackintosh.

In this economy Apple can't keep trying to sell their computers at a premium. Everyone is money conscious and even professionals can't afford the premium for a Mac anymore.

I whole-heartedly agree with being upset about the costs. Well I'm not going back to OS X for a long time, I'll just continue building my PC, which will whoop any Apple computer.

Why should I have to pay $1000 for an apple laptop, when I get get a better speced system for around $750 or less (I can find them for $600 for a better one). That includes more RAM, better video card, bigger HDD, better processor (Intel even), etc.

Apple needs to really lower their costs.
 

Michael CM1

macrumors 603
Feb 4, 2008
5,682
277
One of those ads made prior to June ran after the price cuts and misrepresented the price of Apple's stuff. I don't recall which one, but I think it was the Lauren filmmaker chick. It was factually incorrect, so I can see if that's the one Apple complained about. Since this seems to hold as much water a blog post, it's impossible to know exactly what happened.

As far as people thinking Apple is "whining," get over it. Those commercials are misleading at best and aimed at stupid people who think all gigabytes of RAM and all 17" displays are the same. These are the people who could be suckered into buying a bad used car because it has four doors and a windshield, just like the new $45,000 Lexus at the other dealership.
 

Godgem

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2008
28
0
lies

MS lies in aired ads.
if you comparing the product prices its should be current price and current feutters. Its like apple say afte lunch of 7 that pc notebooks system is vista
 

mac-er

macrumors 65816
Apr 9, 2003
1,452
0
I honestly have to believe someone was making a prank call to Microsoft. First, I don't think Apple is that dumb to say, you have to pull the ads, we've lowered the price by $100.

Second, most companies would have an attorney send a cease and desist letter, not call on the phone.
 

mosx

macrumors 65816
Mar 3, 2007
1,465
3
mosx, Windows Media Center has Blu-ray disc media playback now?

With the newest version of PowerDVD it does.

I will only reply to this part.

The glass multi-touch trackpad is VERY useful for me.

One finger,two finger and three finger. I use it almost constantly on my MBP.

Gimmick.. HA!

Sorry, but the touchpad is nowhere near as good as a mouse. Plus the screens are so bad on the MacBook "Pro" line that they're something only to be used when absolutely necessary.

IMO Vista/Win 7 is not the equal of OSX...I rate it as probably about 90%.

IMO, OS X is only about 50% of what Windows is.

If you throw in iLife as a base-line, get me started package, I drop it to about 85%.

iLife is mostly useless. Outside of iPhoto, what apps do people actually use? I know people who have been Mac owners for years and upgraded several versions of iPhoto and not a single one of them has ever launched an iLife app other than iPhoto.

MS is working on their .Live products that if they package properly they could close this gap.

Windows Live Photo Gallery is easily as good as iPhoto. Picassa is better than both, IMO.

The control panel is still cluttered compared to the prefs pane of OSX. And what - I STILL can't use separate wallpaper images for my multiple displays?? Little stuff like that they need to improve if they want to be as polished as OSX.

Heres a better one for you:

Why can't I disable the built-in display in software in OS X like I can in Windows? If I want to use my desktop display, as I'm doing now, I have to start up my MacBook with the screen closed. Which means I have to open it, press the power button, and close the lid almost immediately afterwards. If I don't close it fast enough I have to wait for OS X to boot up, then close the lid to sleep the system, then wake it back up with an external keyboard and mouse. In Windows I can just plug the monitor in. The first time it will ask me what I would like to do with it and from that point on it will remember the settings. Or if I don't have that prompt, I can just right click the desktop, click the appropriate listing on the menu, and then from there I can manipulate the built-in or external display on or off or the resolutions independently as I see fit.

It's MAJOR things like that that keep OS X from being anywhere close to Windows.

Video playback seems equal on both platforms. I mainly use VLC for my media files and stream Netflix shows/movies.

Well, VLC is fully software based.

If you use something that supports DXVA, you get full hardware support under Windows. For example, Windows 7 supports H.264 in DirectShow finally. Which means, if your GPU supports it, you get full bitstream decoding in hardware for your H.264 video. It's that way for DVD and VC-1 as well. Vista and XP support this for DVD, VC-1, and other video formats, plus software like PowerDVD and WinDVD and others can tap into the GPU on their own for full bitstream decoding. OS X can't do that at all.

Most evidence points to online streaming and on demand as the future, even for high-def, so it may be a moot point.

Thats a long way off, considering that only a couple of countries in the world (Japan and Korea) have enough bandwidth to support high def video in the same league as blu-ray. You can bet that in the US at least, cable companies and AT&T (not Verizon so much) will fight tooth and nail to keep their monopoly on video and anything that can begin to touch blu-ray quality is years, if not decades off as a result.

Vista's about 70% of Snow Leopard technologically and capabilities

Is that why Vista (and XP) have had CUDA support for a couple of years now? While Snow Leopard is just getting OpenCL?

Is that why XP, Vista, and Windows 7 all support full bitstream decoding of video while Snow Leopard still doesn't?

Is that why all of those revisions of Windows can support HDMI properly while Apple doesn't even ship?

It's more like the other way around. Snow Leopard is about 60% of Vista, and Windows 7 is beyond that.

examples. please

For the "Get a Mac" ads lies? A better question would be, in what ads did Apple NOT lie? Everything they said about PCs having virus and spyware issues, crashing issues, Mac OS "just working", etc. was all blatant lying.

but they aren't. they are lying.

How so? It's not a lie that $699 17" notebook PCs exist.

It's not a lie that you can get a 15.4" notebook PC with blu-ray and a better GPU than the MacBook "Pro" for under $1,000.

Microsoft saying they are better priced than Apple fine. But the moment they started naming prices and components they are obligated to be truthful. If the price drops, they should pull the ad and correct it or trash it. we barely see faces until the end so a little ADR ain't that hard

as for the whole 'over spec' claim. get real. if you are going to take price you have to be looking at comparable items. at the least in terms of processor speed, graphics card, ram and hard drive. which these ads rarely do

See, but the Apple fans are forgetting something in these price wars. They're going on and on about "they're not showing the specs!".

What the Apple fans forget is that you get BETTER specs than Apple for sometimes as little as HALF the money.

If you go on to newegg.com right now you can find PCs with better GPUs than the $2299 MacBook Pro for well under $900.

Look at this system http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220560

Look at what you get for the same price as the cheapest Apple notebook. You get a 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo, a GeForce GT 220M 1GB, 320GB 7200 RPM HDD, a PROPER 16x9 display with a PROPER 16x9 resolution, HDMI, a bag, a 1 year accidental damage warranty, 4GB of RAM, etc. You get all of that for HALF the cost of the MacBook "Pro" with an old and outdated 256MB GeForce 9600M GT.

and how long is that battery supposed to last. for the average user. one year, two years. will it be replaced for free after that time. or do you have to buy a new one.

like it or not the built in batteries Apple is using are designed for 4-5 years of use (for the average user). double the old ones. and the cost to replace is the same as what you would have paid for a new battery to put in yourself. probably something you can have done in the 15 minutes you'd have a genius bar appointment. and possibly for no labor charge. we'll see in a couple of years.

Oh man, I can't believe you actually fell for that. Apple's marketing on the new battery technology is also just a flat out lie.

They're completely misleading with their "other batteries last 300 recharges" nonsense. Normal lithium ion and even the lithium polymer batteries used in notebooks today are not only good for 300 "Recharges". They're designed to maintain 80% capacity after 300-500 CYCLES. Theres a HUGE difference between a CHARGE and a CYCLE. You see, if you use 20% of your battery every day, after 5 days that adds up to be 100%. That means 1 cycle every 5 days. Thats roughly 6 cycles a month, or roughly 72 cycles per year.

Even after 5 years, thats still roughly 360 cycles. According to the material on Apple's own website, ALL lithium ion and polymer batteries should still maintain AT LEAST 80% capacity after that time period.

So not only is Apple lying to you about that, they're contradicting themselves with their own nonsense.

The battery in my HP is nearly 2 years old. It's been heavily used. Guess what? Still holds a full 3.5 hour REAL WORLD charge. The 12 cell battery is nearly a year old and it still holds a full 7 hour real world charge.

Apple's lies about battery life are the worst yet. Especially since Apple's systems aren't even designed well enough to last that long. The poor cooling system will have all of the major components inside the system dying from heat years before that 4-5 year mark.
 

slooksterPSV

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2004
3,545
309
Nowheresville
One of those ads made prior to June ran after the price cuts and misrepresented the price of Apple's stuff. I don't recall which one, but I think it was the Lauren filmmaker chick. It was factually incorrect, so I can see if that's the one Apple complained about. Since this seems to hold as much water a blog post, it's impossible to know exactly what happened.

As far as people thinking Apple is "whining," get over it. Those commercials are misleading at best and aimed at stupid people who think all gigabytes of RAM and all 17" displays are the same. These are the people who could be suckered into buying a bad used car because it has four doors and a windshield, just like the new $45,000 Lexus at the other dealership.

Granted I'll give you that one (the bolded item), but Apple sucks at offering a competitive product. I can buy a low-end dell that has more RAM, faster processor, etc. for quite a bit less than an Apple. Let's start with these specs for $999:

Apple.com Store said:
Low-end, cheapest laptop:
2.13GHz

* Intel Core 2 Duo
* 2GB DDR2 Memory
* 160GB hard drive1
* NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics
* Standard keyboard
* White polycarbonate shell

Dell.com Store said:
Low-end, comparable, chepest laptop:

My Components
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T6500 (2.10GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1 32 Bit
Microsoft® Works 9
Classic Protection: 2yr Ltd Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis
15.6” High Definition+ (1600x900) LED Display with TrueLife™
4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 800MHz
320GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
256MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD4330
8X CD / DVD Burner (Dual Layer DVD+/-R Drive)
6-cell battery
Dell Wireless 1397 802.11g Half Mini-Card
No Webcam Option
High Definition Audio 2.0
Jet Black

$804

Why did I choose, that Dell? It was the only one that didn't let you only choose an integrated Intel Graphics Chipset. Still you get an ATI Radeon 4330, 4gb ram, 320gb hdd, a bigger screen, (granted no webcam, but buy one for like $20) all for $195 cheaper than an MacBook low-end. This is an Inspiron 15 and it's a heck of a lot better than the MacBook.

Let's do a 3rd one from a retail site:

NewEgg.com said:
TOSHIBA Satellite A505-S6969 Intel Core 2 Duo T6500(2.10GHz) 16" 4GB Memory 250GB HDD DVD Super Multi ATI Mobility Radeon ... - Retail

* Tech: Intel Centrino Processor Technology
* Part#: PSAP3U-01Q00C
* Operating System: Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit
* CPU Type: Intel Core 2 Duo T6500 2.1G
* Screen: 16"
* Memory Size: 4GB DDR2
* Hard Disk: 250GB
* Optical Drive: DVD Super Multi
* Model #: A505-S6969
* Item #: N82E16834114653
* Return Policy: Desktop & Portable Computer Replacement Only Retur

$799.99

And that's a Toshiba, it comes with an even better Video card, even bigger screen, a slightly smaller hdd than the Dell, but bigger than the Apple, more RAM than the Dell or the Apple, technically same CPU (just better on energy saving), all for $200 cheaper.

So why buy Apple when I can have more/better for cheaper?
 

bfissa

macrumors newbie
Jul 16, 2009
3
0
I think this really shows how desperate Microsoft is. "The best call I've gotten history ... I did cartwheels down the hall..." Definitely. But the commercials really do have a point. I love :apple: products, but they can be hard to afford.
 

J-R-P

macrumors newbie
Jul 16, 2009
4
0
Who cares it is cheaper

It is only a good deal if you want it (Windows computer).
Good for those who want it.
I would not get one for any price. If somebody gifted one to me I would not use it anyway....
 

slooksterPSV

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2004
3,545
309
Nowheresville
It is only a good deal if you want it (Windows computer).
Good for those who want it.
I would not get one for any price. If somebody gifted one to me I would not use it anyway....

But Apple's selling old hardware basically. With how quickly the industry is changing, they need to change with it, not "wait for a major update" like they did in the past with the G4 and G5s.

If I had the money for an Apple would I buy one? No, I do like Apple's, but the fact remains is I can get better specs for cheaper, and if I wanted to "hackintosh" that laptop, supported or not, it would run circles around Apple's base items. If they're going to grow as a competitor, their specs need to meet or beat what's currently on the market - and they aren't even meeting it.
 

doctor-don

macrumors 68000
Dec 26, 2008
1,604
336
Georgia USA
Pay me now or pay me later

Personally, when it comes to relying on my computer to do the jobs for which I bought it, I will continue to believe that my Mac performs as I intended whereas my PC may or may not be able to function properly. What it is doing when it is on and I am not using it cannot be known with certainty; but it is doing something because it tells me when I shut down that it wil install those items the next time it is switched on - even if I don't want what M$ sent it.

It was a LOT cheaper, but then price isn't everything. If it were I would buy a Kia or a Geo Metro - and hope I never meet a wrong-way driver on the interstate or running a red light.
 

NoSmokingBandit

macrumors 68000
Apr 13, 2008
1,579
3
If I had the money for an Apple would I buy one? No, I do like Apple's, but the fact remains is I can get better specs for cheaper, and if I wanted to "hackintosh" that laptop, supported or not, it would run circles around Apple's base items. If they're going to grow as a competitor, their specs need to meet or beat what's currently on the market - and they aren't even meeting it.

Someone once said (and i've reiterated ever since), that when apple switched from PPC their focus went away from "more power" to "more shininess!" Apple used to brag about the Pentium Toaster, and how Macs were so much faster than equivalent PCs but now all they focus on is how thin and shiny it can be. Apple doesnt have to keep up with the market when they have a customer base that is more concerned with smooth lines and form factor.

If Apple got even close to other PC manufacturers i might consider buying one instead of building a Hac (i have 3 at the moment).
 

johnhw

macrumors 6502
Jun 16, 2009
300
1
Granted I'll give you that one (the bolded item), but Apple sucks at offering a competitive product. I can buy a low-end dell that has more RAM, faster processor, etc. for quite a bit less than an Apple. Let's start with these specs for $999:





Why did I choose, that Dell? It was the only one that didn't let you only choose an integrated Intel Graphics Chipset. Still you get an ATI Radeon 4330, 4gb ram, 320gb hdd, a bigger screen, (granted no webcam, but buy one for like $20) all for $195 cheaper than an MacBook low-end. This is an Inspiron 15 and it's a heck of a lot better than the MacBook.

Let's do a 3rd one from a retail site:



And that's a Toshiba, it comes with an even better Video card, even bigger screen, a slightly smaller hdd than the Dell, but bigger than the Apple, more RAM than the Dell or the Apple, technically same CPU (just better on energy saving), all for $200 cheaper.

So why buy Apple when I can have more/better for cheaper?

You still get Winblows though.
 

J-R-P

macrumors newbie
Jul 16, 2009
4
0
But Apple's selling old hardware basically. With how quickly the industry is changing, they need to change with it, not "wait for a major update" like they did in the past with the G4 and G5s.

If I had the money for an Apple would I buy one? No, I do like Apple's, but the fact remains is I can get better specs for cheaper, and if I wanted to "hackintosh" that laptop, supported or not, it would run circles around Apple's base items. If they're going to grow as a competitor, their specs need to meet or beat what's currently on the market - and they aren't even meeting it.

Well, I do not think you understand the heart of matter...
There are people (including me) that simply refuse to struggle with Windows (I switched 5 years ago). So what, it can be done 30% faster if in few days I will have to reformat.
By the way, I am really happy that Windows works for you. Did not for me (and many other people).
 

casik

macrumors regular
Jan 18, 2007
245
5
Alberta
bah, the amount of back and forth banter about PC's vs Mac's is making me sick.

You choose what you want. A less expensive system with better numbers in the specs and more "tweekability" or a sexy computer with lower specs and less problems. To each their own. I use a Mac bc it works for me. I don't need a quad core to browse the web or update my families website (yes i do use iWeb and it is super handy). Heck, I don't even need a quadcore or more than 4 gigs of ram to edit family video's or do photography on the side!

I choose to use a Mac bc of the OS and for the overall design of the computer.

I bought a 24" imac for $1600 (after tax) that has a 2.66 Dual, 640GB HD, 4 gigs of RAM, and some other stuff shoved in there too...

If we want to talk about what is overpriced it is Apple's Cinema Displays...

On a side note it does seem unlikely that this phone call took place the way it is described, but even if it did, w/e who cares. I don't buy Apple products bc I like their business practices, I buy them bc they work for me.

Again... this back and forth banter is childish at best when it comes to what is better.

Oh ya... and to whoever said that iLife is pretty much useless aside from iPhoto... I cannot even say how many simple and easy home video's I have thrown together in iMovie, how many DVD's I have burnt in iDVD, and how many times I have published our family's website in iWeb... I haven't used garageband as much but I have thrown some demo's together in it tho...
 

gunraidan

macrumors regular
Jul 10, 2009
176
0
These ads really do get Apple where it hurts. Even I am pretty upset over the cost of Macs.

I want a Mac for intensive media creation and I just can't afford one. I had to go buy a Dell Studio XPS 435 and I have to return it, but I'm now going to build a Hackintosh.

In this economy Apple can't keep trying to sell their computers at a premium. Everyone is money conscious and even professionals can't afford the premium for a Mac anymore.

It doesn't help that their consumer desktops are very low speced. For the love of God Apple create a headless desktop that has an i7 processor and a GTX video card for $999-1100.

Why should I have to pay $1000 for an apple laptop, when I get get a better speced system for around $750 or less (I can find them for $600 for a better one). That includes more RAM, better video card, bigger HDD, better processor (Intel even), etc.

Pretty true about the White Macbook, but not all Macbook's.

To be fair the Macbook Pro line-up focus's on being "thin and stylish" in which when you look at similar computers the MacBook Pro is at a pretty decent pricepoint. Just observe some of Dells (non-stylish) thin laptops. Or how about their thin and stylish laptops.

One of those ads made prior to June ran after the price cuts and misrepresented the price of Apple's stuff. I don't recall which one, but I think it was the Lauren filmmaker chick. It was factually incorrect, so I can see if that's the one Apple complained about. Since this seems to hold as much water a blog post, it's impossible to know exactly what happened.

As far as people thinking Apple is "whining," get over it. Those commercials are misleading at best and aimed at stupid people who think all gigabytes of RAM and all 17" displays are the same. These are the people who could be suckered into buying a bad used car because it has four doors and a windshield, just like the new $45,000 Lexus at the other dealership.

How is this not as bad as the Mac vs PC commercials in which in some of them they act like only Macs can efficiently use photoviewing, film editing, and watching movies?

I honestly have to believe someone was making a prank call to Microsoft. First, I don't think Apple is that dumb to say, you have to pull the ads, we've lowered the price by $100.

Second, most companies would have an attorney send a cease and desist letter, not call on the phone.

This is what I'm thinking too.

Sorry, but the touchpad is nowhere near as good as a mouse. Plus the screens are so bad on the MacBook "Pro" line that they're something only to be used when absolutely necessary.



IMO, OS X is only about 50% of what Windows is.



iLife is mostly useless. Outside of iPhoto, what apps do people actually use? I know people who have been Mac owners for years and upgraded several versions of iPhoto and not a single one of them has ever launched an iLife app other than iPhoto.

j9bqs7.gif


For the "Get a Mac" ads lies? A better question would be, in what ads did Apple NOT lie? Everything they said about PCs having virus and spyware issues, crashing issues, Mac OS "just working", etc. was all blatant lying.

This is the only part of your post in which is even remotely true.
 

Norco

macrumors regular
Dec 9, 2007
204
93
With the newest version of PowerDVD it does.

Sorry, but the touchpad is nowhere near as good as a mouse. Plus the screens are so bad on the MacBook "Pro" line that they're something only to be used when absolutely necessary.

IMO, OS X is only about 50% of what Windows is.

iLife is mostly useless. Outside of iPhoto, what apps do people actually use? I know people who have been Mac owners for years and upgraded several versions of iPhoto and not a single one of them has ever launched an iLife app other than iPhoto.

You're an idiot, just go away. Unless you're doing something that needs high precision (FPS gaming/Photoshop) the track pad's kick ass. The 2/3/4 finger motions are much more innovative than anything on the PC side.

You're probably right that OS X is 50% of what Windows is ... in terms of foot print. Features wise, that's HILARIOUS. I guess that's why Microsoft is copying all the features and bringing it to their operating system. What's that famous saying... oh yeah, history repeats itself.

iMovie is extremely good for an entry level product, I know a lot of people who have used it for years. It's a good entry for people to learn before jumping into something tougher such as Final Cut Pro.
 

seedster2

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2007
686
0
NYC
Color me a skeptic. Seems to be either an embellishment or quite dubious for a legal team to call rather than fax or write.

Discussing the truthfullness of each competitor's marketing campaigns will lead to nowhere. I do think Mac's are somewhat overpriced so I only buy them when there are great promotions (e.g. MP 2.8 biz discount). I do think windows users are generally more vulnerable to malware, but not as bad as :apple: ads lead you to believe.

However, I must also point out it is entertaining and equally surprising to see some of you finally question a source. I guess when marketing/numbers originates from Apple marketing it's the gospel, but from elsewhere it warrants investigation;)

And apple computers are not analogous to a BMW, not even close
 

kingtj

macrumors 68030
Oct 23, 2003
2,606
749
Brunswick, MD
Umm, yeah, sure ....

I'm pretty upset over the price of Mercedes cars too. I mean, in this economy, I'd love to be driving one - but they can't keep asking a premium for their cars when I can get a Chevy Cobalt for at least HALF the price!

I already went and bought a "luxury sedan" from Hyundai, but I had to return that.... Now, I dunno -- maybe I'll just buy a used Chrysler and put Mercedes logos all over it.


These ads really do get Apple where it hurts. Even I am pretty upset over the cost of Macs.

I want a Mac for intensive media creation and I just can't afford one. I had to go buy a Dell Studio XPS 435 and I have to return it, but I'm now going to build a Hackintosh.

In this economy Apple can't keep trying to sell their computers at a premium. Everyone is money conscious and even professionals can't afford the premium for a Mac anymore.
 
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