Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Demands Microsoft Pull Laptop Hunter Ads
- Thread starter WickedRabbit
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Dear Kevin....
I don't believe you.
I think making a statement like that is smart. No one can prove it no one can challenge it.
I don't believe Apple or Apple legal have knuckleheads working for them. Unless there is a total genius who has evaluated that it is far more advantageous to make it appear that the MS ads are working.
MS brings as much value as a used piece of loo paper.
I don't believe you.
I think making a statement like that is smart. No one can prove it no one can challenge it.
I don't believe Apple or Apple legal have knuckleheads working for them. Unless there is a total genius who has evaluated that it is far more advantageous to make it appear that the MS ads are working.
MS brings as much value as a used piece of loo paper.
PHB anyone?
This Kevin Turner guy sounds like a real PHB to me. He did cartwheels in the hallway? Really? You're a top executive and you're running around in your office building like a giddy little girl? Then you go on without verifying anything to report this to the media? You're about to have a real cold shower tomorrow when Apple comes with a press statement that they didn't do this.
I used to have a boss like that - you could fool the poor guy and he wouldn't even know and he would run ads like this and believe what he says is the absolute truth as well. This sounds like a run-of-the-mill office prank from some office workers getting sick of his crazy out-of-this-world ideas and believing everything he hears (especially when it comes from vendors) ...the best excuse I heard from a PHB: but he's a sales ENGINEER, he's there to help the executive with the technical stuff, he knows what he's talking about, his goal is not to sell us anything.
Either way, they shouldn't air those ads anyway because they're misleading and it's not on the merits of Apple vs. Windows. They have people believe you can buy a really good laptop computer for under a $1000 and then they come home with the package (like my aunt recently did) and it's too slow or doesn't have the video card to run any recent games.
Did you ever look at the $500 laptops? Pentium M, Celeron M, desktop CPU's (don't keep it near any body parts you cherish), 665 MHz DDR2, Intel GMA 900 (not kidding - it's barely a DX9 card). The machine is already 2 or 3 years old before you even buy it and it's about as heavy as an iMac, take it off the power supply and it'll last you 90 minutes tops - you might as well leave it plugged in (as my aunt has to leave it plugged in) or it will shut down on you. It gets slightly better as you go up towards a $1000 but for a few extra hundred I have a decent Sony Vaio or a MacBook Pro
This Kevin Turner guy sounds like a real PHB to me. He did cartwheels in the hallway? Really? You're a top executive and you're running around in your office building like a giddy little girl? Then you go on without verifying anything to report this to the media? You're about to have a real cold shower tomorrow when Apple comes with a press statement that they didn't do this.
I used to have a boss like that - you could fool the poor guy and he wouldn't even know and he would run ads like this and believe what he says is the absolute truth as well. This sounds like a run-of-the-mill office prank from some office workers getting sick of his crazy out-of-this-world ideas and believing everything he hears (especially when it comes from vendors) ...the best excuse I heard from a PHB: but he's a sales ENGINEER, he's there to help the executive with the technical stuff, he knows what he's talking about, his goal is not to sell us anything.
Either way, they shouldn't air those ads anyway because they're misleading and it's not on the merits of Apple vs. Windows. They have people believe you can buy a really good laptop computer for under a $1000 and then they come home with the package (like my aunt recently did) and it's too slow or doesn't have the video card to run any recent games.
Did you ever look at the $500 laptops? Pentium M, Celeron M, desktop CPU's (don't keep it near any body parts you cherish), 665 MHz DDR2, Intel GMA 900 (not kidding - it's barely a DX9 card). The machine is already 2 or 3 years old before you even buy it and it's about as heavy as an iMac, take it off the power supply and it'll last you 90 minutes tops - you might as well leave it plugged in (as my aunt has to leave it plugged in) or it will shut down on you. It gets slightly better as you go up towards a $1000 but for a few extra hundred I have a decent Sony Vaio or a MacBook Pro
I don't get this argument. Is there some kind of legal obligation that Apple has to support Blue-Ray? Does Apple claim to support it or have they given any intention that they will? Do they even claim that nobody else sells it? Does any of their advertising claim it? Has Apple ever said that you can never purchase it?
I can understand that you want it - but thats your problem. If Apple does not provide what you want, go somewhere else or compromise. Apple doesn;t have to sell what you want. There are external Blue Ray Drives, there is Mac software that burns it. You can't play movies with it, but thats a licensing dispute that is technical and political. Too bad.
I ahte those ads, but pulling them? come on apple...
I especially hate the ads because they are simply lies
They pretend a low end 17" laptop is bette than a 15" MBP because of the bigger screen... While the MBP does have a faster CPU, GPU, RAM... And in fact the screen IS bigger when you take the resolution into account.
really: MS, FU. Apple, stop whining, they aren't worth it.
I especially hate the ads because they are simply lies
They pretend a low end 17" laptop is bette than a 15" MBP because of the bigger screen... While the MBP does have a faster CPU, GPU, RAM... And in fact the screen IS bigger when you take the resolution into account.really: MS, FU. Apple, stop whining, they aren't worth it.
congratulations!
Yes apparently they were able to exploit Safari for Mac easier then IE for Windows. These are web browsers...
The truth speaks for itself...I don't have viruses on my Mac. Even if this is because "there are less written" that's still okay with me...I still don't have em'
Yes apparently they were able to exploit Safari for Mac easier then IE for Windows. These are web browsers...
The truth speaks for itself...I don't have viruses on my Mac. Even if this is because "there are less written" that's still okay with me...I still don't have em'
Exactly. There is literally no way in hell (a place lawyers are intimately familiar with) an Apple lawyer would call the COO of Microsoft about some vague pricing claim in an ad. Just did not happen.
out of curiousity, i wonder if anyone actually ops for the mac... or does the person have to choose a pc.... i'm sure if they asked me, or someone like me, to choose a laptop with $1500, i'd for sure choose a mac. otherwise, they're basically paying people to buy pc's-
Funny how, earlier in the thread when you said this, I responded to you with citations and you disappeared. Now you're back, but talking to someone else. Classic astroturfer move, how much is HP paying you?
They did, in fact, point to specific models in the ad at specific prices. All this talk about model numbers is silliness. The FTC, state laws, and stare decisis are clear here. Deceptive advertising is a tricky thing, but pricing comparisons are a tightly defined area. It doesn't matter that it was true *when the commercial was filmed*. It isn't true now (again, you can't buy that laptop any more at all so the price comparison is null on its face, and the current equivalent is $300 cheaper so it's overtly deceptive as well). That is what matters.
See 233.2(a):
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/decptprc.htm
Nobody is selling that model at that price, but they're selling a comparable one for far less. Again, this could not be clearer.
The absence of Blu-ray probably wouldn't bother people at all if Apple didn't persistently claim that they're on the bleeding edge of technology, which is generally a BS claim. On the rare occasion they're early in offering something new -- they were early adopters of DVD-R/W+ (sorry, "SuperDrive"), 802.11 draft-N (sorry, "AirPort Extreme") and Nehalem processors, for example. But they're just as often one or two steps behind. The stock GT120 card in Mac Pro is a joke, it's nothing more than a re-re-branded 8600GT which is like 3 years old. It took them forever to put 7200 RPM drives in their laptops, we were stuck with 5400 forever. The unremarkable midrange 9600M they still have the audacity to put in their top of the line MBPs gets its ass kicked tenfold by the truly powerful mobile GPUs out there. And the PB G4... oh gawd that's gotta be the most embarrassing period in their history. PCs went through two, three generations of Intel processors that were running circles around Macs by the end, while Apple were like "wow, we managed to squeeze another 0.1 GHz out of the G4!"
If they just toned it down with the "bestest fastest super high end ever ever evvvarrrr!" baloney, took a deep breath and said, I dunno, "OK, we make midrange to upper midrange stuff for the most part, but at least our computers are sexy" people might get off their backs about stuff like Blu-ray, mobile quads etc, but with their current approach they're just begging to be ridiculed.
Well gees if you get CNN to do it we will end up with a toaster sitting by the kitchen window and be told you can't do better. Ahhh I can remember when CNN actually provided decent news, even though still in the frequent rotation you could actually watch it to be informed.
I can understand why Apple would call them and ask them to stop. They are unfairly biased to the point of fraud! A recent "Laptop Hunters" ad compared a $2500 MacBook Pro to a $800 Dell laptop that don't even have the same specs! How is that fair? They also fail to consider bundled software, which alone can add great value to a computer in terms of usability.
Not to mention I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft's legal department contacted Apple during the "PC vs. Mac" campaigns, or the "Get a Mac" campaign.
Personally, I think Apple should sue if Microsoft continues this campaign. These ads are simply fraudulent.
And WHY IS MICROSOFT EVEN ADVERTISING ANYWAY? They have 90% worldwide market share and they're concerned about a company that claims a success when they can claim 10% of the pie? It's sad because the more they talk, the more scared and arrogant they seem.
Not to mention I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft's legal department contacted Apple during the "PC vs. Mac" campaigns, or the "Get a Mac" campaign.
Personally, I think Apple should sue if Microsoft continues this campaign. These ads are simply fraudulent.
And WHY IS MICROSOFT EVEN ADVERTISING ANYWAY? They have 90% worldwide market share and they're concerned about a company that claims a success when they can claim 10% of the pie? It's sad because the more they talk, the more scared and arrogant they seem.
Last call, the 12:54 train heading for "Appleonia" is now departing from gate 639. Please present your Apple gear and member badges at the security gate in order to board.
Microsoft might actually be in trouble again.
I am thinking that there is a legal reason. Looking at the ad, it is misleading customers. There could be a case for false advertising. I don't think that the Apple legal department would try to scare Microsoft without solid reasons.
The fact is, in every ad the customer states what they want, all of which Apple has, but not at the price they want. They all end up with a product that delivers one or none of what they said they wanted, except the price. Microsoft could actually have to backpedal due to legal proceedings.
These ads are effective, but they are effective because they are deceptive, not because the PC they are talking about is better. Bill gates became a billionaire by peddling an inferior product, a cheap, poor copy of Apple's OS. Here they are again, peddling inferior products. They might actually get in trouble for this one.
I think that Microsoft and Palm are both in for a big surprise. Microsoft for their ads. Palm for their multi-touch, which seems to be an infringement of the multi-touch patents that were all awarded to Apple. It is coming.
I am thinking that there is a legal reason. Looking at the ad, it is misleading customers. There could be a case for false advertising. I don't think that the Apple legal department would try to scare Microsoft without solid reasons.
The fact is, in every ad the customer states what they want, all of which Apple has, but not at the price they want. They all end up with a product that delivers one or none of what they said they wanted, except the price. Microsoft could actually have to backpedal due to legal proceedings.
These ads are effective, but they are effective because they are deceptive, not because the PC they are talking about is better. Bill gates became a billionaire by peddling an inferior product, a cheap, poor copy of Apple's OS. Here they are again, peddling inferior products. They might actually get in trouble for this one.
I think that Microsoft and Palm are both in for a big surprise. Microsoft for their ads. Palm for their multi-touch, which seems to be an infringement of the multi-touch patents that were all awarded to Apple. It is coming.
I work in IT. We are still running Windows XP on around 400 machines. We have enough Vista licenses for every single one of them. We are STILL running XP and will not upgrade until Microsoft brings out something that doesn't stink in comparison to Windows XP.Our Mac side has not skipped any new versions, because they are always better.
We are sort of praying that Windows 7 is not as big a flop as Vista. As a Mac guy, I don't mind if it flops, but that would mean that we eventually would have to install Vista, instead of skip to a viable Windows version.
I think from a legal point of view, which is going to be to view of apple legal , the actual price mentioned in the ad is now factually incorrect. That is different than an I'm a Mac ad, which makes subjective claims, disagreeable or not. It's easy to say one thing is better than another thing, but facts are where claims of false advertising can be made.
, the actual price mentioned in the ad is now factually incorrect. That is different than an I'm a Mac ad, which makes subjective claims, disagreeable or not. It's easy to say one thing is better than another thing, but facts are where claims of false advertising can be made.
I love how a half truth of a story makes the rounds and everyone starts the apple bashing. Apple didn't ask for them to be pulled because they didn't like the truth. Apple asked them to be pulled because, at the time of airing the ads, the ads were out of date.
This is an excerpt from a PC World post, which tells more of the story
You can read the full article here.
I agree with Apple, if you want to run ads based on price and specs, you should at least have the information right. I suspect Apple didn't want the ads stopped, but probably asked for them to be accurate.
MS will of course spin it anyway they want, and try to make Apple look stupid. I just find it so funny for a company the size of MS, to be worried about little ol' Apple.
This is an excerpt from a PC World post, which tells more of the story
You can read the full article here.
I agree with Apple, if you want to run ads based on price and specs, you should at least have the information right. I suspect Apple didn't want the ads stopped, but probably asked for them to be accurate.
MS will of course spin it anyway they want, and try to make Apple look stupid. I just find it so funny for a company the size of MS, to be worried about little ol' Apple.
You don't seem to get the ads at all. They're not just about prices, they're about CHOICE *and* prices. Sure, a MBP 17" isn't comparable with an $800 Dell but the point is that the customer wanted a 17" laptop, and Apple doesn't have any 17" laptops other than the MBP. If the customer wants a sub $1000 notebook, all they have is the bloody whitebook with its thumbnail sized screen and jumbo pixels. None of the laptop hunters wanted a 13" so they had to compare with whatever Apple had to offer in terms of 15" and up, and all they have in that range is MBP 15"/17".
So when is the comparison "fair"? Should Apple's competitors be forced to only compare to the 13" whitebook because that's the only consumer laptop Apple can be arsed to produce?
What do you think PCs ship with? A bare bones installation of the most basic version of Windows? All computers come loaded with a bunch of toybox applications for managing photos, creating DVDs and all that hobbyist crap. The value of iLife is absolutely zero to me personally, I'm on my third Mac and I don't use any of the iLife apps (no, not even iPhoto). When I buy a new computer I install Adobe CS, Office and a bunch of audio apps and plugins and that's where I spend my time. All I need from the system itself is file management and a versatile media player.
Wow, lots of activity on this thread.
First, I doubt the call took place, or if it did was anything like reported. Perhaps these two people talk on the phone all the time and something was said in jest? Not uncommon at all to be on the phone with someone that works at your competition, and that goes all the way to the top. I work in management in television, and have been in the room when CEO's, CFO's, and attorneys are on the phone with other broadcasters. Big companies, Clear Channel, Turner, Viacomm. You would be amazed at how casual and candid these calls are. They hold thier secrets and are cut throat about business but less face it, they are friends and know they may work for the guy on the other end of the phone sometime soon.
As for the ads.
You know how frustrated I was when Leopard broke my printer and I couldn't print for 6 months untill HP updated the drivers? That was when Apple was advertising that Mac/OS just works, and Vista has driver compatability issues. If anyone has any case about lying or missrepresenting it's MS. Almost every PC problem Apple pokes fun at I have personally dealt with on a Mac. Thank goodness I could print from my Vista machine while HP got their act together.
But the fact is these are comercials. Don't get bent out of shape when someone says something in them you don't like.
First, I doubt the call took place, or if it did was anything like reported. Perhaps these two people talk on the phone all the time and something was said in jest? Not uncommon at all to be on the phone with someone that works at your competition, and that goes all the way to the top. I work in management in television, and have been in the room when CEO's, CFO's, and attorneys are on the phone with other broadcasters. Big companies, Clear Channel, Turner, Viacomm. You would be amazed at how casual and candid these calls are. They hold thier secrets and are cut throat about business but less face it, they are friends and know they may work for the guy on the other end of the phone sometime soon.
As for the ads.
You know how frustrated I was when Leopard broke my printer and I couldn't print for 6 months untill HP updated the drivers? That was when Apple was advertising that Mac/OS just works, and Vista has driver compatability issues. If anyone has any case about lying or missrepresenting it's MS. Almost every PC problem Apple pokes fun at I have personally dealt with on a Mac. Thank goodness I could print from my Vista machine while HP got their act together.
But the fact is these are comercials. Don't get bent out of shape when someone says something in them you don't like.
And that excerpt left out another key part of the story -- the MS campaign runs worldwide, and Apple only lowered their prices in the US. Nobody else noticed any price drop on June 8 at all. Apple have been hitting the crack pipe hard and invented a currency exchange rate table that no other American companies are using. The basic MBP 17" was SEK 25,495 before WWDC, and it's exactly the same price now -- price drop + Apple dollar hike = status quo. The USA-exclusive price drop may have rendered Microsoft's ads outdated in the US, but they're perfectly up to date everywhere else.
Yes, and that's an American publication, and this is the largest market for MS, so that's what it was addressing. What a concept.
So, you're saying that because totally different ads that they're showing in, say, Estonia may still be "accurate", it's somehow dishonest or only "part of the story" to suggest they pull outdated ads in the US.
I see.
Nevermind. I don't.