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This is something i'll never agree with the Obama Administration and democrats on...and Im somone who believes wholeheartedly in single payer healthcare and that 25% actual taxes collected by the federal government on the richest americans is way too low.

A 20% flat tax would be the most "fair" thing to do...liberals love using the phrase "fair share" and I can't think of anything more fair than everyone paying the same rate. But, they'll never go for that because it won't redistribute wealth enough to suit the liberal agenda.
 
This, basically. Despite presumptions above, I'm not American. But then this problem is not solely American. It's just American paranoia.

Angela Merkel also paranoid?

...ah the things we've done in the name of national security.

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
~Thomas Jefferson
 
All Apple can do is deny working with the NSA. If the truth comes out every consumer in the world would question Apple. It would be the biggest scandal in Apple's history. Stocks would just plummet and Apple would lose the ultimate trust of it's fan base.
Don't expect any company to tell the truth unless their caught dead to rights. The question here is how can NSA intercept iPhone's ordered online and then install monitoring software without any help?
 
They can get into your phone's camera, mic, or record calls within minutes....probably seconds. They're the NSA, the greatest hackers in the world. Just know that you're being watched and recorded at all times. This shouldn't surprise anyone.
 
If you've got nothing to hide, what's the problem? This day and age, what's wrong with eyes and ears?

At the risk of being too inflammatory (but historically accurate and worthy of a mention in the hope that our species will some day actually LEARN from its mistakes), these exact words were uttered by the Polish as Jewish citizens of Germany were hauled away. Later, when the Nazi party also decided that Poland's elite and powerful are in violation of Nazi law and should also be hauled away and put in concentration camps too (the holocaust included the deaths of not just Jewish German CITIZENS but also Polish, Romani, homosexuals and those that weren't any of those, but people thought they were).

So when you say you have nothing to hide, you are implying what is needed to be hidden, and as you can see this can be a moving target that manifests itself in ways you can't imagine. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, without any exceptions (removing deities from the statement since people have difference religious beliefs).

If you have nothing to hide, shall we send drones to your house everyday and scan you at 7am? Maybe we'll record your keystrokes on your computer all day, sound good? How about we just assign a roving drone for each person. Those with nothing to hide won't mind the incessant buzzing. You kind of get used to it after a while, right?
 
They can get into your phone's camera, mic, or record calls within minutes....probably seconds. They're the NSA, the greatest hackers in the world. Just know that you're being watched and recorded at all times. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

And you think we should just be accepting of that fact?
 
If you've got nothing to hide, what's the problem? This day and age, what's wrong with eyes and ears?

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I don't care because I'm not a terrorist or a famous person.

and what if i told you... that all i need to really mess up your life are the trivial data you don't mind handing nilly-willy?

i got your mother's maiden name? your pre-school teachers' names? every address you ever lived in? gee, wonder what i could do with that info if i were to call your credit card company and say that "i" have lost "my" card, provide excellent answers to what-ever verification question they might ask (last 5 purchases/transactions) and give them a NEW address to send the card to...
 
And your point?

That the world is changing at a faster and faster pace, and there might be new needs to protect the greater good of the world. Than what the founding fathers who were geniuses of their time probably could not foresee. Part of the reason the constitution is modifiable and has a supreme court to interpret the document in accordance.

I am not defending the NSA or that it is constitutional but the argument implied that our laws should be based on a 200+ year old world with barely any communication technology besides snail mail at the time is not a strong argument.
 
But if I had to choose between letting them see it or you, I'd probably pick them.

This is exactly what is wrong with America. Somehow you see the government made up of thieves, liars, controllers, and power grabbers as somehow more honest that the average person. In my real life, I would much rather give my information to anyone I know, or lives on my block than anyone in the government.

Remember, the government is the only organization that can put you in jail or kill you for absolutely no reason other than they wanted to and suffer no consequences, unless the media somehow gets behind your story. This attracts exactly the wrong people to be in power.
 
The NSA is looking out for terrorist activity. Good luck to them. If my mundane emails go through them, why should I care? It'll only bore them. What have you people got to hide that's so important to world security?

Because "terrorist activity" is a slippery slope. They used "national security" on Kim Dotcom for his purely "normal illegal" file sharing sites. They use "national security" to catch Normal kids on the street with pot now. When they survey even a handful of "national security" letters, most were for routine criminal warrants or things not warrantable... Many were to spy on girlfriends/ random chick agent wants to date... Corrupt use of the data for PERSONAL GAIN is ALREADY rampant.
 
That the world is changing at a faster and faster pace, and there might be new needs to protect the greater good of the world. Than what the founding fathers who were geniuses of their time probably could not foresee. Part of the reason the constitution is modifiable and has a supreme court to interpret the document in accordance.

I am not defending the NSA or that it is constitutional but the argument implied that our laws should be based on a 200+ year old world with barely any communication technology besides snail mail at the time is not a strong argument.

That's why the whole idea of amendments were written into the Constitution that allow for change. Things like this should not be done by executive order but by an actual amendment to the constitution, voted on by the people.
 
blatant lie.
All of the major telecom providers, computer manufacturers and phone manufacturers provide backdoors to their devices/clients for US intelligence.
This is in the DMCA and other legislation.
 
A 20% flat tax would be the most "fair" thing to do...liberals love using the phrase "fair share" and I can't think of anything more fair than everyone paying the same rate. But, they'll never go for that because it won't redistribute wealth enough to suit the liberal agenda.

When income is so unequal a flat tax system starts to become not so equal. Wealth redistribution is what made the middle class possible friend. That should not be a liberal agenda that should be an American agenda.
 
Because "terrorist activity" is a slippery slope. They used "national security" on Kim Dotcom for his purely "normal illegal" file sharing sites. They use "national security" to catch Normal kids on the street with pot now. When they survey even a handful of "national security" letters, most were for routine criminal warrants or things not warrantable... Many were to spy on girlfriends/ random chick agent wants to date... Corrupt use of the data for PERSONAL GAIN is ALREADY rampant.
haha
I got busted in the early 2000's for putting on a free music festival on BLM land. The agencies (multiple) that busted us bragged that we can "thank the Patriot act" for giving them the ability to hack our websites and tap our phones.
For our devious plan to drink beer and rock out in the woods.
 
When income is so unequal a flat tax system starts to become not so equal. Wealth redistribution is what made the middle class possible friend. That should not be a liberal agenda that should be an American agenda.

First, I'm not your friend. And secondly, any respect I might have had for you as a liberal supporting a flat tax just flew out the window.

*edit

I'll also add that hard work and conservative spending with family values is what made the middle class...not government programs and intervention.
 
When income is so unequal a flat tax system starts to become not so equal. Wealth redistribution is what made the middle class possible friend. That should not be a liberal agenda that should be an American agenda.

Nothing scream 'Murica like wealth distribution. Geez...
 
Wow, there are a lot of people who think they're more important than they are when things like this come up. If the NSA or any other agency is hacking iPhones that are used by any one of the vast majority of people who live their lives like most of us do - that is, working, eating, sleeping, etc., then the issue we should be angry about isn't privacy related, but rather the fact that government is wasting time and money digging into the boring lives of Americans (or any other global citizens).

The fear that people have that "the government" is going to lock them up, take their guns, steal their money, or walk their dogs, is paranoid and delusional. Remember, the government is made up of people just like you and me, with family and friends who are trying to live their lives as best they can. Of course there are bad people in government, just like there are good people in government. That's how society works. You get the good and the bad in any society.

Worry instead about banks not loaning money to those that need it. It's big business and banks that are more liable to cause you some personal harm.

First people say it's paranoid that big brother is watching you, people were called nut jobs and conspiracy theorist for even challenging that the government is spying on you. Now that Edward Snowden has come forward with information on NSA spying and now the leak documents of NSA spying on Apple's iPhone, we're still called paranoid because our lives aren't interesting enough for NSA to give a damn about. Wake up please. Yes, people do fear that the government will get big and out of control because we've seen what has happened in other parts of the world and in history.
 
A 20% flat tax would be the most "fair" thing to do...liberals love using the phrase "fair share" and I can't think of anything more fair than everyone paying the same rate. But, they'll never go for that because it won't redistribute wealth enough to suit the liberal agenda.

Not sure if you understand what "fair" means.
 
A 20% flat tax would be the most "fair" thing to do...liberals love using the phrase "fair share" and I can't think of anything more fair than everyone paying the same rate. But, they'll never go for that because it won't redistribute wealth enough to suit the liberal agenda.
we already pay incredibly low taxes. Compare the current maximum income tax and capital gains rates to what they were 20, 40 or 0 years ago.
Move to some other country where they don't charge much if any taxes and see how much you like the infrastructure and public services.
Besides, the problem we have here isn't that poorer people don't pay income tax (and honestly why should you if you are at the poverty level).
It is that people who make obscene amounts of money pay relatively little.
 
First, I'm not your friend. And secondly, any respect I might have had for you as a liberal supporting a flat tax just flew out the window.

Look at history and you might find a stunning connection between progressive taxes and a thriving middle class, but hey if that makes me a liberal and that means we must not be friends because we have different ideals of what is "fair" so be it.
 
Nothing scream 'Murica like wealth distribution. Geez...

Like in 2008 when we gave trillions of dollars to the people who destroyed the economy? Then they used that money to give themselves bonuses whilst continuing to fire people and illegally foreclose on houses?
 
For those who say "If you have nothing to hide..." you need to see Terry Gilliam's film "Brazil". It's about a tech error that sends the security establishment after the wrong person with a vengeance.
 
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