True but if you have ever worked in retail, majority of customers are not thrilled when they have to buy an extra accessory because it’s not included in the box
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Apple Discontinues iPhone SE, iPhone 6s and iPhone X
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True but if you have ever worked in retail, majority of customers are not thrilled when they have to buy an extra accessory because it’s not included in the box
Let's be honest then based on that statement. I would say a majority of customers aren't thrilled when they have to buy an extra accessory or replacement. I was more pissed off at replacing my flat screen and refrigerator than buying a new lighting adaptor, for example.
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See that's the thing. SJ could do no wrong and TC can do no right, according to some. With so many customers, shareholders, employees and online commentators apple has an impact. You can get two people to agree on which is better, vanilla or chocolate. But if I seemingly had agada at every turn, I would buy products from "less controversial" companies like LG and Sony and stay away from Samsung.
Think of it another way, if you went to a top hotel, you'd expect to get the bath robes supplied etc, and you'd be thinking the hotel was cheaping out if it didn't.
Its the same with Apple. You buy a top phone, you expect to get certain things in the box.
Where is your proof?
Discussing a specific point with a cogent opinion is not a straw-man and it's what people who want to hold a conversation do.
Here are some examples of generalized statements that ultimately mean nothing:
"Some people hate apple" - probably true and maybe easy to prove. Because this can apply to one or more people. I'm sure there is some type of fallacious reasoning attached to this.
"People hate apple" - probably true as well, but approaching straw-man territory. This again can apply to one or more people. I'm sure there is some type of fallacious reasoning attached to this. As having this apply to one person vs 49% is a very different issue.
"Most people hate apple" - this is a classic generalization that is impossible to prove or defend.
Again, not like other companies so pissing a few off to execute a brilliant strategy works.
And you said it yourself...you’re guessing.
Apple knows what they are doing. Proven over and over.
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Apple will prove you wrong again when the sales data is released, particularly in 1Q2019. Just wait for it.
Why, then, when I spent $1,500 for a Samsung flat screen, I didn't get a HDMI cable in the box? I should have gotten all of the accessories in the box according to your line of thinking, but I didn't. Just a power cord.
Yep, you're repeating what I said.
The fact that you said "more" pissed off implies that you were still pissed off at buying a new lightning adapter. We're getting into semantics though. Customers are rarely happy when they have to buy something extra even if it's a $1 adapter.
I think that's my only point is that pissed off or upset customers will still buy, so you can't use that metric as a gauge that only happy customers buy.
I used that wording for a reason. For the lightning adapter cable, I broke it due to my own carelessness. So I was annoyed with myself for that. And it doesn't matter I didn't order a MFI cable, I had to go through time to get a new cable. It's time I never have, money is not the issue.
Over and Over and Over and Over I have said that the sales are good. My point is good sales is not necessarily equal to the best product.
I'm not interested in Apple making more and more money, I'm interested in good products, serving customers well etc, while maintaining a profit.
Where is your proof?
I never said any of these things.
My argument is that:
a) People will buy Apple products even if it means making a compromise and not being happy with all the design/feature decisions made.
b) This is because the hassle of moving is too great and results in feature loss if you have other Apple products.
c) Apple can rely on this, and thus is able to focus on products with higher margins. (EG larger phones)
The SE was a logical extension of the iPhone 5, 4 generations later. So even though it had better specs than the iPhone 5 it was essentially the budget model as if Apple had just kept their old model of depreciating the previous years flagship phone until it rolled off the roster.
When Apple introduced the 5c it was not a budget phone its first year, as they released it in the mid-tier range, with the obvious intent of depreciating it to their budget phone which they did. The SE replacement, of “XE” as I like to call it will once again debut in the middle tier price range with the end goal of depreciating to a budget model, and eventual upgrade just as the SE did. In the meantime, there are other less expensive options for those customers willing to upgrade to a larger sized phone. Otherwise they can hang onto their SE for another year, as it’s a perfectly capable phone — and willing to spend whatever price Apple offers the replacement for when it comes.
Except I can buy a luxury small car, mid-size car, or SUV. I have a choice in all price ranges, and features. Same with TVs. Again it’s a choice, not being forced into one-size-fits-all, and having to get used to it. If Apple doesn’t offer a choice, then there are other brands. If Apple loses customer share as a result, that’s their fault, not the customers.
Well, you’re using what is now 5 year old, 6th generation tech. So, it didn’t really seem to me that you were concerned about haveing the latest and greatest, which always comes at a premium price. And frankly, I don’t see the X-series as being substantially superior to the 8 anyway. So whatever. You either need a new phone or you don’t. The reality is you have options if you do, and if it’s too expensive this year, it won’t be next year — I mean you’ve held onto your current phone for 4 years, what’s an extra year since you clearly don’t need the latest tech?
You threw the first generalized statement, that I inquired about how you can prove it. Now we are going back and forth with the: "where is your proof", which goes nowhere.
I never said you said those words, that I cited as examples of the type of thing you posted.
"People will buy Apple products even if it means making a compromise and not being happy with all the design/feature decisions made."
- Absolutely. Everything consumer product you buy has it's pluses and minuses. With me, I buy the product if the pluses exceed the minuses and it has value to me at the price point it's selling for. I don't know if anyone, myself included, said products from Apple don't come with their share of compromises or minuses.
"This is because the hassle of moving is too great and results in feature loss if you have other Apple products."
- This feeds into the above whereby you evaluate the pluses and minuses.
"Apple can rely on this, and thus is able to focus on products with higher margins. (EG larger phones)"
- You think apple is stupid and know they have people locked in? I think you underestimate people. People stay because the net positives outweigh the net negatives.
Sales prove they are serving. They’d sell fewer iPhones with the SE, which is they analysis they did.
Wait, what? You’re saying that by merely having the SE in their lineup, somehow it would deter people from buying more iPhones in general?
Yay, data
Fascinating how the SE is more popular than any 'Plus' iPhone in most countries. In some even the 5S is more popular than an iPhone Plus. I would have expected large size phones to be more popular in wealthy Big-5 character countries like Japan.
(and all those Androids not getting updates :'|, like Galaxy S6 and older)
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Could be a technical issue. I don’t see them abandoning it, but they’ve definitely botched its implementation most notably not any support on the iPad.
It could cannibalize efforts they’ve made on their new lineup. I think it might exist later.
I see, you mean it would lower their profits. I agree, and that’s why I think they pulled it from their stores with this release, but didn’t discontinue it entirely with third party retailers, until they’re prepared to relaunch it at a higher price.
I was in Europe recently and had occasion to be with someone who was buying a new iPhone at a Vodaphone after theirs was stolen on vacation, but instead of replacing their 7, or buying the X, they thought about buying an SE — you’ve never seen such a dejected and incredulous look on the salespersons face despite the SE being an actively marketed device by Apple. Obviously the salesperson got a commission based on profit margin. They ended up buying the 8, but it was a close decision — one that Apple has eliminated as they go into the holiday season.
Probably the right decision.
I expect a small form factor X type device to be released at some point, maybe even in March.
It’s possible they will push it into 3rd party only retail like they’ve been doing with the 6 for the past year - Apple don’t market it or sell it directly, but they do still manufacture and sell it through their resellers. Whether they will do it with just the 6s, just the SE or both remains to be seen but I would expect at least one to continue on to pick up customers at that bottommost price point, especially now the first party offerings start a hundred or so more expensive than before.
I'll give you another fallacy.
Apple makes lots of money so it can do no wrong. Which is a point you make out all the time.
That is not a straw man, please look up what it means.
My point is Apple makes a lot of money so it must be doing more right than wrong. There is a difference.
Ok, you got me; it’s a logical fallacy.
That just trades the revenue problem for a profit problem though.They could just lower the prices of the 8 and 8 Plus to fix that problem though.
at least get your facts correct
The iPhone 6 came out in 2014, 4 years ago
And it is the 8th generation
It’s not unreasonable for you not to read all the posts in this thread but I usually upgrade every 2 years. I skipped upgrading when Apple removed the headphone jack because I needed to charge my iPhone in the car while it was connected to the aux port.
Drivel
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Your argument is a straw man.
I say Apple is polarizing and makes annoying decisions.
You respond with Apple is great because it makes lots of money.
It is easier for you to defend that Apple makes lot of money than it is for you to defend that Apple doesn’t makes annoying decisions.
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A few points to note. Apple is a premium priced device and has included the dongle in the box but has now decided to cheap out.
If you look at TVs. A $1500 tv is nearer the lower end of the range, like cheaper android devices so cannot be compared to the iPhone.
But in any case, I think printer cables, hdmi cables etc should come in the box. It’s a cheap move not to.
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Why do you think they are only pissing off a few? You are guessing. Sales figures just mean they are pissing off less that they are pleasing.
in any case yes the amount of people that Apple please far outweighs those that it annoys but that does not mean that Apple should continue with this way of working. It’s easy to go after the popular dollar.
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My argument must have a grain of truth to it, rather than the logical fallacy you concluded with. Apple didn't get to $1T by being the best of worst. They are selling product and services.
If you believe Apple is polarizing and making annoying decisions, you are entitled to your opinion.
I respond with Apple is making more correct decisions than incorrect decisions because it is doing well.
At any case, Apple for the longest time has only included the bare necessities in the box. Would I like to have more than less, sure. But they are not the only ones doing it. As I mentioned, Samsung is doing that with their TVs also, irrespective of where you believe the price on the food chain is. I can't defend what apple is doing any more than Samsung, but I'm not losing any sleep over it.
This entire notion about who is being pissed off is a red-herring. There is no way of knowing what the 70 million customers that bought iphones, macs, airpods, homepods, apple tvs etc are thinking. You only know about the small microcosm posted on the internet claiming they are pissed. After that you are only guessing, which goes back to how apple is doing. If you want to think of it that apple is pissing off less than they are pleasing, it's the same as apple is doing more right than wrong.
Any which way, the saying holds: that you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Maybe apple isn't fooling anybody and that's why people are buying their products and they ended up at $1T.