Apple dissapoints once again with the MacBooks!

[ziwi]

I can kind of understand

First the sales were hurting because everyone was waiting for the INtel conversion, now that it has happened (with the MBP) it seems there are first rev or growing pain issues and that is making people want to wait again for them (Apple) to work out the kinks. One could only hope that with the MacBook they have been able to do that, but time will tell - it is a less complicated machine and they have the knowledge of the issues with the MBP. Quality is a huge factor in why some buy Apple - so they need to get any growing pain / quality issues handled quickly - especially if they want to gain any market share in-roads.

I mean, if they get into the process of releasing buggy, low quality stuff to the public for beta testing then they have become Dell or Microsoft...

 

[DTG]

No ofcourse not, i realise once more that technology moves fast, but this time it moved unnaturally fast and the MacBookPro series just became a complete joke. Apple you shouldnt have the Pro series at so high prices in the first place, and now u are becoming even more irretating when u show up sutch low prices for the MacBooks! Not that i dislike the MB prices or specs, i believe they are most worth it but u just diminished the Pro series, and that shouldnt happen so fast!
Apple lower the MBPros prices, or they will go nowhere untill August!
Its a shame!

Doenst anyone see what im saying? Im not against MBs guys, grow up. They are the only thing worth what they offer right now by 100%!

I don't like your logic. Sure the two laptop lines seem to be extremely similar. If Joe Public wants to buy an Apple notebook then they will buy the MacBook purely on price. If a professional wants an Apple notebook they will look at the features.

Personally I'd love to have a MacBook, but because of the GMA 950 I simply cannot have one. I *need* h.264 decoding done by my GPU like in the MacBook Pro and iMac. I simply cannot have my CPU tied down by decoding h.264 video. Also, you may think the price difference is too great. But you're getting a much better screen with a MBP, it's larger and has a much greater resolution, you can have 7,200 rpm drives.
There's so much more to it than "Oh they're the same now, why the big price difference?".

Rather than complain about MBP prices, how about feeling sorry for all the folk who put down $300 for the 0.16Mhz CPU upgrade which Apple now gives you for FREE.

 

[lasuther]

Wouldnt u complain about seeing Apple using what ever its got available to sell and at sutch a high price? And thats just not it, seeing after less than 3-4 months to make replacements/upgrades with 3-4x faster machines with the same money? Of course this is very ok if u havent bought anything and u just wait for the better (Merom MBPros) but imagine if u already have the MBPro and Apple releases after 3months a 3-4x faster machine at the same price! Happened with the iMacs before, why not happen again?

I’m looking at this from a different perspective. I had an iBook G4 800MHz and I loved the graphics card. I play a lot of WoW so graphic cards are important to me, but I don’t like spending $3000 on a laptop. This release was disappointing to me because I wanted a 64MB ATi card. However, I didn’t expect such a strong CPU. Many people will pay the premium for the 15” just for the graphics card, bigger screen, more expansion ports, and aluminum body. Just because you don’t value those, doesn’t mean many people do.

The only thing worse than fast upgrades is slow upgrades. In May 2005, I was convinced the iBook would be getting an update. But it kept getting pushed back until July. Then we never saw an update again. Every month I was sure Apple couldn’t put off updating such old hardware, but they did. I ended up buying a 20”iMac Intel in January because I couldn’t wait any more for an iBook update. In 18 months, the iBook saw just one update. You might be satisfied and happy with that, but I was very upset. I expect hardware updates and the faster they happen the better.

I have ordered a MacBook with 1Gig ram for $1200, and I think I will be very satisfied.

 

[notjustjay]

Technology changes at lightning speed, it is a fact of modern life. I remember once seeing it written that if automobile technology evolved as fast as computer technology did, then we could all be driving flying cars that get a million miles to the gallon, and we would throw them away when we reached our destination because it would be cheaper to buy a new car for the return trip home than to pay to park the old one.

Or something along those lines.

Anyway, the point is this: If I decide that I NEED a computer today, I will shop around and buy one that does what I need, at a dollar amount I am happy with. A few months down the line, that same dollar amount will buy substantially more power. This is a GIVEN. But that doesn't change the fact that (a) the machine I bought is STILL powerful enough to do what I bought it to do (it did not magically become slower), and (b) regardless of current market value, I was STILL happy to pay that dollar amount when I bought the machine. And, the difference between what you paid then, and what you would pay today, is the cost of all the useful work your computer has already done between then and now!

Unless your needs have dramatically changed (and Microsoft and the gaming industry appear to promote this by constantly releasing new software that "requires" faster and faster machines), your computer is still doing what you paid for it to do. You will "get your money's worth" (as Zoran stated it) as long as your computer continues to do what you bought it for.

If you are seriously upset that you "should have waited" or you are jealous that your buddy paid less than you did, I submit that you are either being juvenile, or you didn't really "need" the computer you bought in the first place.

I have a 12" Powerbook, and I paid over $3000 Cdn for it. I am SO EXCITED that sometime this year for well under $3000 I could buy a 15" MacBookPro which is going to blow my laptop's performance out of the water. But do I NEED to? ... no, not really. My 12" is doing what I need it to do, and until that changes, I am still getting my money's worth.

 

[bokdol]

ok so i have read most but not all of the post and i have chose to defend his statements. one i think we are misinterperting what he is trying to say. this intel transition.(which i have never been a big fan of, but have accepted) yes is faster. but it sould be expected to be faster.

the moto/freescale chip is an old chip. almost 3 to 4 years old. so anything intel has now is expected to be faster. yes and i believe it should have been more then 3 times faster. we were running on an overclocked 3 year old chip with a slow ass bus. if it was not more then 3 times faster that is dissapointing.

anyhow what i think he is saying is that now that you have a consummer laptop at the same speeds as the pro laptop. it can be "percieved" as the pro not being worth the same value as it should be. now i know thw ibook and the powerbook has always crossed lines but i think what he was expecting with the intel transition is that there would have been more speration between the lines(processor wise).

maybe he should say apple dissapoints with the mac book pro update. because it really is not a speed bump. they just got rid of the low end unit.

ok anyhow i really want a mac book. or mac book pro. even though i am not a fan of intel.(but getting converted) i hope the macbook will play WOW better.

 

[emotion]

maybe he should say apple dissapoints with the mac book pro update. because it really is not a speed bump. they just got rid of the low end unit.

Give it three months. The MBP will be bumped in spec.

 

[notjustjay]

anyhow what i think he is saying is that now that you have a consummer laptop at the same speeds as the pro laptop. it can be "percieved" as the pro not being worth the same value as it should be.

Yes, I understood that part. But a week ago, before the MacBook was introduced, people were buying MacBook Pro's and happy to pay the price they were paying. Some complained it was overpriced to begin with, but the rest did not.

Now, we have consumer laptops that are maybe 80% of the power, for 60% of the price.

Has the value equation for the MacBookPro suddenly changed? I argue it hasn't. What WILL change, is some of us who were going to buy MacBookPro's because that was the only choice available, now have a new choice. Do I sacrifice the 20% of the features to save 40% of the cost? For many of us, the answer is yes! For others, the MacBookPro's are the only way to go.

Would it be nice if Apple dropped the price of the MBP to reflect the difference in added-value? Sure, of course. But are the MBP's suddenly overpriced, when they weren't, a week ago? That's debatable.

i think what he was expecting with the intel transition is that there would have been more speration between the lines(processor wise).

What would you propose? That Apple hold back the MacBooks for a while until the technology was available to give the MacBookPro's a super-bump? That Apple intentionally cripple the MacBook line with slower processors for a while? There's no happy medium.

As someone else said, parity will be restored. The afore-mentioned super-bump for the MacBookPro will arrive soon.

But be warned, the Intel transition will lead to MORE situations like this, not less.

 

[bokdol]

What would you propose? That Apple hold back the MacBooks for a while until the technology was available to give the MacBookPro's a super-bump? That Apple intentionally cripple the MacBook line with slower processors for a while? There's no happy medium.

As someone else said, parity will be restored. The afore-mentioned super-bump for the MacBookPro will arrive soon.

But be warned, the Intel transition will lead to MORE situations like this, not less.

i dont purpose anything. as i dont know what intel has. i was trying to defend his point (maybe i did not do that right, oh well). i am actually satisfied with what has been going on. i do like the old ppc chip before though. but apple wont go back so long live intel. yes i am slowly drinking the koolaid.

 

[lasuther]

Many people are expecting the differentiation between MacBook and MacBook Pro to be processor. Currently that isn’t the case because there just aren’t the DualCore processors for differentiation. The differentiation is in the features, expansion ports, screen size, and aluminum body. It was the same for the old G4 Powerbook and iBooks. The iBook has needed a serious update for a year, this has been a long time coming

 

[bokdol]

Many people are expecting the differentiation between MacBook and MacBook Pro to be processor. Currently that isn’t the case because there just aren’t the DualCore processors for differentiation. The differentiation is in the features, expansion ports, screen size, and aluminum body. It was the same for the old G4 Powerbook and iBooks. The iBook has needed a serious update for a year, this has been a long time coming

there are curently 6 different core duo clocked processors in intels line up.
T2600 2 MB L2 2.16 GHz 667 MHz 31W
T2500 2 MB L2 2 GHz 667 MHz 31W
T2400 2 MB L2 1.83 GHz 667 MHz 31W
T2300 2 MB L2 1.66 GHz 667 MHz 31W
L2400 2 MB L2 1.66 GHz 667 MHz 15W
L2300 2 MB L2 1.50 GHz 667 MHz 15W

that is from intels web site. so yes they could have put in a lower clocked processors. (i am GLAD that they did not. but i also would have been glad if they put in a 1.83 duo with a better gpu.)

and i do understand that there are sigificant differnces in the macbook and pro line to warrent the 2 lines. i was just trying to defend his point which is not too far off base. remember we are coming off a old computer world where the processor clock was the big deal, was the main reason one machine was better then another. so it is hard to get away from old world thought. to "now everything matters just as much, not just the cpu"

 

[emotion]

L2400 2 MB L2 1.66 GHz 667 MHz 15W

Couple that with a 10.4" ws and separate dvd and now we're talking

 

[Eidorian]

I don't like your logic. Sure the two laptop lines seem to be extremely similar. If Joe Public wants to buy an Apple notebook then they will buy the MacBook purely on price. If a professional wants an Apple notebook they will look at the features.

Personally I'd love to have a MacBook, but because of the GMA 950 I simply cannot have one. I *need* h.264 decoding done by my GPU like in the MacBook Pro and iMac. I simply cannot have my CPU tied down by decoding h.264 video. Also, you may think the price difference is too great. But you're getting a much better screen with a MBP, it's larger and has a much greater resolution, you can have 7,200 rpm drives.
There's so much more to it than "Oh they're the same now, why the big price difference?".

Rather than complain about MBP prices, how about feeling sorry for all the folk who put down $300 for the 0.16Mhz CPU upgrade which Apple now gives you for FREE.

Find me where the OS X drivers pump the h.264 video through the ATI X1600 GPU's Avivo. It's ALL done via Core Duo right now. Also find the Windows support for the 7xxx Series and X1xxx Series for h.264 decoding via GPU.

 

[balamw]

Also find the Windows support for the 7xxx Series and X1xxx Series for h.264 decoding via GPU.

Will this do?

https://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=21594

B

 

[Eidorian]

Will this do?

https://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=21594

B

Your sessiong expired for me. I know the support is there on GPU. I just haven't seen the proper drivers activating it yet for Windows. Then again my data is at least from January.

Knowledge Base
ATI Customer Care > How to Use > System Settings and Configuration >
737-21594: How to Enable Hardware Acceleration of H.264

The information in this article applies to the following configuration(s):

* H.264 Hardware Acceleration
* Radeon X1300, X1600, X1800, X1900 series
* Windows XP/2000

To enable hardware acceleration of H.264 content on X1000 series products, both an optimized H.264 driver and software decoder or codec pack is required. The H.264 optimized driver is included within Catalyst Control Center.

To learn more about H.264 technology, please visit http://www.ati.com/technology/h264.html

Please Note – A known issue exists with Catalyst 6.4 and H.264 playback. We recommend end users not upgrade to Catalyst 6.4 to ensure hardware acceleration of H.264 content remains functional.

To access version Catalyst 5.13 – 6.3, you will need to browse the previous driver section.

What's required to get H.264?

1. Download and install Catalyst

2. Download and install the Cyberlink H.264 hardware accelerated decoder.

Cyberlink's Power DVD6 Power User Combo including H.264/AVC pack: http://www.cyberlink.com/english/products/powerdvd/6/exp_packs.jsp#combo

3. Play your favourite H.264 content, hardware accelerated.

So now we just need to confirm the support of Avivo on OS X.

 

[balamw]

Your sessiong expired for me. I know the support is there on GPU. I just haven't seen the proper drivers activating it yet for Windows. Then again my data is at least from January.

737-21594: How to Enable Hardware Acceleration of H.264

The information in this article applies to the following configuration(s):

* H.264 Hardware Acceleration
* Radeon X1300, X1600, X1800, X1900 series
* Windows XP/2000

To enable hardware acceleration of H.264 content on X1000 series products, both an optimized H.264 driver and software decoder or codec pack is required. The H.264 optimized driver is included within Catalyst Control Center.

To learn more about H.264 technology, please visit http://www.ati.com/technology/h264.html

Please Note – A known issue exists with Catalyst 6.4 and H.264 playback. We recommend end users not upgrade to Catalyst 6.4 to ensure hardware acceleration of H.264 content remains functional.

To access version Catalyst 5.13 – 6.3, you will need to browse the previous driver section.

What's required to get H.264?

1. Download and install Catalyst

2. Download and install the Cyberlink H.264 hardware accelerated decoder.

Cyberlink's Power DVD6 Power User Combo including H.264/AVC pack: http://www.cyberlink.com/english/products/powerdvd/6/exp_packs.jsp#combo

3. Play your favourite H.264 content, hardware accelerated.

B

 

[Eidorian]

Can you confirm the OS X support of Avivo decoding?

 

[bbrosemer]

Maybe apple shoud be just like Dell offer a giant laptop weighing in at 10 lbs that has an Nvidia 7200 and 2 gb of RAM and call it "ultra portable". The MacBook is nice quit bitching and build yourself a laptop then. Apple produces good products and your going to have to pay a premium for them.

 

[fredwards]

I can't imagine anyone getting pissed about new products, as well as an entire product line speed bump and cheaper prices, except for a disgruntled MBP user who may have just bought the entry level MBP and got less for more.

It's a given MBP will be updated, to some degree the macbook actually out does the MBP by means of a redisnged keyboard and easability to swap hard drive.

Almost everyone knows that by Q4, MBP will have Merom just because that is the direction the industry is taking, and it falls perfectly in line with a typical Apple product cycle. Do you really need the release of the macbook to tell you this?

 

[Eidorian]

Maybe apple shoud be just like Dell offer a giant laptop weighing in at 10 lbs that has an Nvidia 7200 and 2 gb of RAM and call it "ultra portable". The MacBook is nice quit bitching and build yourself a laptop then. Apple produces good products and your going to have to pay a premium for them.

You're going to pay a premium building your own laptop too. The market isn't as saturated with laptop components as it is with desktop ones. They already have SLI capable laptops running Nvidia chips. The thing is how MUCH are you going to pay before you realize you can get a cheap laptop and a GREAT desktop that'll outperform a single gaming laptop and be more upgradeable in the long run.

http://consumer.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTA0OCwxLCxoY29uc3VtZXI=

Yes, it's an eMachine but it's dirt cheap with a Sempron and an open PCI-Express slot. The only major worry for gaming is the 300 watt power supply. But at under $500 and a MacBook you're ahead.

 

[bbrosemer]

Umm... I was critisizing expensive laptops incase you...... DIDNT GET THAT.... I know ... If I want to play a really high end game Ill play it on my Xeon's not the MBP... So thanks for the info that I already knew...

 

[zoran]

I know this isn't directed at me but I'll bite.

1. 2x 12" powerbooks (one 867 from work and my own 1.33GHz)
2. 867 from work, the 1.33 about £1100
3. New one in the new year/spring (or maybe the autumn when/if the small mbp arrives). Three years of heavy use for 1100 quid. Very very good value I'd say and the thing still does everything I want it too.

So Zoran. Your point?

Point is that u have not purchased a macbookpro yet, so you are not furious with their drop of value (since MBooks appeared at sutch a low price offering similar specs). + the fact that u partially agree with me in waiting to get the faster upgraded MBPro and havent bought it already cause from what i can see, u surelly need it with those 2 old steamtrains!
Thanx for beeing so true and keep on biting!

 

[NewbieNerd]

And the 2.0 MBP users as well. With the release of the Macbook, they changed the speed of the "$2,499 2.0 MBP" to 2.16ghz, at no additional price increase. A couple of days ago, this was a $300 option.

If I were one of those with the custom 2.16ghz MBP (they paid $2,799 while it is now $2,500!), I would demand a refund of $300. I would have been very upset if I still had my MBP (traded it in for a 17" due to issues) and knew that I paid $2,500 for a 2.0 when I could have received a 2.16ghz at the same price.

So, how do you really expect technology to advance? For laptops to improve, there has to be some day X at which they improve, but then you worry about the people who bought a machine at day X-1? Well, let's refund those X-1 purchasers. Ohh, but then they should refund all the people who bought at day X-2 too! You see where I'm going? Unless you'd rather Apple never improve their computers just so everyone can feel good that their purchase is the best available with the best price... As demand and/or production costs go down, so shall prices.

Sometimes you gotta get a grip and let go of the fantasy, everything-should-revolve-around-me mentality. Life's too short.

 

[26139]

Uhh...

No ofcourse not, i realise once more that technology moves fast, but this time it moved unnaturally fast and the MacBookPro series just became a complete joke. Apple you shouldnt have the Pro series at so high prices in the first place, and now u are becoming even more irretating when u show up sutch low prices for the MacBooks! Not that i dislike the MB prices or specs, i believe they are most worth it but u just diminished the Pro series, and that shouldnt happen so fast!
Apple lower the MBPros prices, or they will go nowhere untill August!
Its a shame!

Doenst anyone see what im saying? Im not against MBs guys, grow up. They are the only thing worth what they offer right now by 100%!

Riiiiight....

Anyone actually agree with this grammatically challenged opinion?

 

[zoran]

Riiiiight....

Anyone actually agree with this grammatically challenged opinion?

yup i do!

 

[Jiddick ExRex]

Wouldnt u complain about seeing Apple using what ever its got available to sell and at sutch a high price? And thats just not it, seeing after less than 3-4 months to make replacements/upgrades with 3-4x faster machines with the same money? Of course this is very ok if u havent bought anything and u just wait for the better (Merom MBPros) but imagine if u already have the MBPro and Apple releases after 3months a 3-4x faster machine at the same price! Happened with the iMacs before, why not happen again?

I know it happened before and that's why I don't feel sorry for the people who just "need" the "bestest" Rev A. MBP. It's ok to wait imho.