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For those who participated in the beta, did it run better that the GM?(differences in speed/battery)

  • Yes, betas were better.

    Votes: 54 24.8%
  • No, same performance, or GM is better.

    Votes: 164 75.2%

  • Total voters
    218

JohnnyW2K1

Suspended
Jan 27, 2016
136
154
London, UK
Hasn't changed much? Seriously?
I get consoles day 1, the PS3 was no exemption, and remember how it evolved from 2007 to 2013. You obviously don't, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Here's what you actually said:

I agree that every iOS version makes all devices a bit slower. Some more than other, as well as some iOS versions are heavier than others. But this is not new in the tech world. The same goes for most hardware with upgradable OS's, computers, upgradable TVs, phones, game consoles.

When I pointed out this was nonsense, you backtracked on "game consoles" operating systems to the PS3 store. The store on PS3, however, is a separate app.

And now you then show screenshots of the PS3 store to try and prove something about operating systems. Huh?

You then doubled down on modern Windows being slower on older machines, which has proven to be completely false.

You are nitpicking with Win10. I don't feel evidence is needed to prove a graphic transparency requires more resources than an opaque graphic. I'm going to let you believe what you do.

Transparency, FYI, was a big feature in Window Vista. It is not, however, a big feature in Windows 10. You REALLY don't know what you're talking about in any capacity... Just like everyone else I've spoken to here who tries to claim that slow down on operating systems is normal and to be expected.
[doublepost=1507487633][/doublepost]
The “report” doesn’t actually exist. According to Snopes, a Harvard student did conduct a casual search of Google Trends, and her findings were exaggerated over time.

I'm not sure you followed that article properly. It states the data is there, but says we can't conclusively prove Apple slowed the phone down deliberately. Anyone can go into Google Trends and see for themselves that there's a spike every time an OS update is released when a new iPhone comes out. That's common knowledge.

chartoftheday_2514_iphone_releases_n.jpg

[doublepost=1507487890][/doublepost]
What’s a better strategy to get people to upgrade their phone?

Intentionally slow it down so the user gets so frustrated & fed up?

Or make the experience of using your phone so great that you want to upgrade?

Seems like #1 is the OPPOSITE of what you’d want to do.

Here's the problem with your logic:

1. We know for a fact that phones slow down with newer updates. Some people claim that this is due to "new features" (which is nonsense that's not seen anywhere else in the computing world), but it's something we apparently all agree on: Updates make old phones slower.

2. Apple does everything it can to force people to update, including removing the option to downgrade.

So Apple knows it will make older devices slower, and it does it anyway.
 
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fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,252
5,563
ny somewhere
here's a good quote at the end the statistica page:

However, this "effect" seems to cool off pretty quickly as our chart illustrates. In the past years, it has never taken more than a couple of weeks for the search volume to come back to its previous level.

and, on the wacky internet, for example, i also found this 'crazy' poll:
slow.png


so many opinions, experiences, observations. but still no PROOF that apple intentionally slows down older phones.
 

JohnnyW2K1

Suspended
Jan 27, 2016
136
154
London, UK
The problem with that poll is that we have no idea if the people who voted in it actually participated in the beta. I nearly clicked on it myself, and I certainly didn't.

As for the Statistica quote, it's true that the searches go down, but that also doesn't really prove anything. It could be people adjusting to the new speed, for example. (It's also wrong, btw, the search results never return to their "previous level", there's a general trend of increase across the board.)
 
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macfacts

macrumors 603
Oct 7, 2012
5,363
6,326
Cybertron
Someone should video record a speed test like those Android vs iPhone speed test but make it iPhone 7 (ios10.3.3) vs iPhone 7 (iOS 11). iOS 11 got rid of 32bit support so there should be more free ram on a fresh reboot.
 

JohnnyW2K1

Suspended
Jan 27, 2016
136
154
London, UK
Someone should video record a speed test like those Android vs iPhone speed test but make it iPhone 7 (ios10.3.3) vs iPhone 7 (iOS 11). iOS 11 got rid of 32bit support so there should be more free ram on a fresh reboot.

Like this?


Also, 64-bit applications take up MORE memory, not less. Each memory pointer takes up 8 bytes instead of 4.
 
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macfacts

macrumors 603
Oct 7, 2012
5,363
6,326
Cybertron
Like this?


Also, 64-bit applications take up MORE memory, not less. Each memory pointer takes up 8 bytes instead of 4.

But in iOS 11, the 32bit libraries dont have to be loaded into ram. Also iOS 10 was already 64bit, so the core os is not using more memory for pointers in ios11 on a fresh reboot.
 
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fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,252
5,563
ny somewhere
The problem with that poll is that we have no idea if the people who voted in it actually participated in the beta. I nearly clicked on it myself, and I certainly didn't.

As for the Statistica quote, it's true that the searches go down, but that also doesn't really prove anything. It could be people adjusting to the new speed, for example. (It's also wrong, btw, the search results never return to their "previous level", there's a general trend of increase across the board.)

so what exactly IS proved? vs theories, speculation... macrumors polls, etc. how many people in the world use iphones? & what percentage google 'slow iphone'? what percentage have issues on ios11 (or 10, or..), and what percentage just go about their day, using their phones?
 

Kalloud

macrumors regular
Oct 23, 2016
145
91
I have a little different theory:
~Optimizing an operating system costs money.
~Apple wants to earn as much money as possible.
~The newest iPhones have very fast chips compared to the older iPhones, probably 3 times faster.
~Apple is like: "why invest money in optimizing iOS when the new iPhones have so much horsepower that they can probably handle it without much optimizations?"
~The newest iPhones do run the newest iOS "decently" (though that's subjective as different people don't have the same sensitivity to stutter, I am almost too sensitive btw).
~The older iPhones struggle with the latest iOS release.
This theory is based on some information:
*Android Oreo, the latest version, runs very smoothly on the nexus 6p despite being a 2 year old device. Not perfectly smooth but smoother than the iPhone 8 running iOS 11 in my opinion.
*Try installing a custom rom with the latest android version on a 2-3 year old android flagship. It isn't as fast as the new flagships but it isn't noticeably slower than when they ran on their older android version either.
*Windows 10 updates don't bring performance issues, even for older hardware. I have a 2006 Core 2 duo PC that's running windows 10 fine. It certainly isn't as fast as the new hardware but at least it is not slower than windows vista that it shipped with in 2006. So no, the newest software doesn't necessarily run noticeably slower on a slightly older hardware.
*Also, the hardware is improving a lot faster than the operating system's demands when upgrading to a newer version:
I think the same applies to smartphones.
I'm not 100% certain but I'm pretty confident that I'm right.
I think apple dropped the ball lately when it comes to software and they should fix this ASAP.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,252
5,563
ny somewhere
I have a little different theory:
~Optimizing an operating system costs money.
~Apple wants to earn as much money as possible.
~The newest iPhones have very fast chips compared to the older iPhones, probably 3 times faster.
~Apple is like: "why invest money in optimizing iOS when the new iPhones have so much horsepower that they can probably handle it without much optimizations?"
~The newest iPhones do run the newest iOS "decently" (though that's subjective as different people don't have the same sensitivity to stutter, I am almost too sensitive btw).
~The older iPhones struggle with the latest iOS release.
This theory is based on some information:
*Android Oreo, the latest version, runs very smoothly on the nexus 6p despite being a 2 year old device. Not perfectly smooth but smoother than the iPhone 8 running iOS 11 in my opinion.
*Try installing a custom rom with the latest android version on a 2-3 year old android flagship. It isn't as fast as the new flagships but it isn't noticeably slower than when they ran on their older android version either.
*Windows 10 updates don't bring performance issues, even for older hardware. I have a 2006 Core 2 duo PC that's running windows 10 fine. It certainly isn't as fast as the new hardware but at least it is not slower than windows vista that it shipped with in 2006. So no, the newest software doesn't necessarily run noticeably slower on a slightly older hardware.
*Also, the hardware is improving a lot faster than the operating system's demands when upgrading to a newer version:
I think the same applies to smartphones.
I'm not 100% certain but I'm pretty confident that I'm right.
I think apple dropped the ball lately when it comes to software and they should fix this ASAP.

of course you're right. the proof is... you figured this all out in your head, without facts, and clear information. also, fwiw, everyone else on this thread is right too (even me). everyone's right!
 

Paddle1

macrumors 603
May 1, 2013
5,146
3,596
Apple just doesn't optimize their OS as much as they could. iOS 7.0 vs 7.1 on iPhone 4 is proof of this. Same with iOS 4 on iPhone 3G. The yearly release cycle doesn't allow it. When they really want to they can give even the most underpowered devices a big performance boost. If I had to guess, they're going to optimize iOS 11, probably in an 11.3 update.
 

Kalloud

macrumors regular
Oct 23, 2016
145
91
of course you're right. the proof is... you figured this all out in your head, without facts, and clear information. also, fwiw, everyone else on this thread is right too (even me). everyone's right!
1-I did say I'm not 100% certain.
2-Sometimes you feel confident about something and sometimes you don't feel as confident. It is a feeling.
3-I do have some information to support my claim.
 

simonsi

Contributor
Jan 3, 2014
4,851
735
Auckland
(It's also wrong, btw, the search results never return to their "previous level", there's a general trend of increase across the board.)

Given the huge increase in the iPhone user-base over that period I'd suggest that per user, that search query goes markedly <down> over time, equating to less people seeing that as a concern....but you can prove almost anything with statistics, this thread is a nonsense though as no public information will tell you Apples <intent>.
 
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fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,252
5,563
ny somewhere
1-I did say I'm not 100% certain.
2-Sometimes you feel confident about something and sometimes you don't feel as confident. It is a feeling.
3-I do have some information to support my claim.

right, and if 5 different people have 5 different 'feelings' about something, who's right? also:
"I'm not 100% certain but I'm pretty confident that I'm right".
 

Kalloud

macrumors regular
Oct 23, 2016
145
91
right, and if 5 different people have 5 different 'feelings' about something, who's right? also:
"I'm not 100% certain but I'm pretty confident that I'm right".
I know that I didn't prove anything. All I did is I noticed some information that may lead to a certain conclusion, and that made me suspicious.
At least I'm not laying back saying "you can't prove it so don't talk about it", that would be a lot easier.
Also: it's fine if you disagree with me but I think that I can criticize Apple just like any other company, and I don't necessarily need a proof that it's intentional, though that would be better.
 
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tromboneaholic

Suspended
Jun 9, 2004
3,706
3,024
Clearwater, FL
I gave my dad my iPhone 5s when I bought iPhone 6. Told him never update. His phone is snappier all around than my iPhone 6 on iOS 11. My mom has a 6 on iOS 9 that is also faster than mine on iOS 11. I’m buying the X , so I’m not too concerned with slowdowns and stuttering animations and Apple apps needing to be force quit and safari loading horrible jpg images for 5 seconds before becoming responsive when I switch back to it.

Apple definitely optimizes the software for the new hardware.

The worrisome part is when I see iPhone 8 owners complaining about some of the same issues i experience on the iPhone 6....
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
so what exactly IS proved? vs theories, speculation... macrumors polls, etc. how many people in the world use iphones? & what percentage google 'slow iphone'? what percentage have issues on ios11 (or 10, or..), and what percentage just go about their day, using their phones?
The adoption rates say it all.
[doublepost=1507531093][/doublepost]
I gave my dad my iPhone 5s when I bought iPhone 6. Told him never update. His phone is snappier all around than my iPhone 6 on iOS 11. My mom has a 6 on iOS 9 that is also faster than mine on iOS 11. I’m buying the X , so I’m not too concerned with slowdowns and stuttering animations and Apple apps needing to be force quit and safari loading horrible jpg images for 5 seconds before becoming responsive when I switch back to it.

Apple definitely optimizes the software for the new hardware.

The worrisome part is when I see iPhone 8 owners complaining about some of the same issues i experience on the iPhone 6....
There's no doubt planned obsolescence exists but people keep denying it.
 

Kalloud

macrumors regular
Oct 23, 2016
145
91
That doesn’t prove anything. Benchmarks will be the same on the same hardware but real world usage says otherwise.
^This
The problem is clearly with software not being as optimized as it used to be. Of course the hardware will be the same!
When you "upgrade" to the next iOS version and your device becomes slower, the change is made to the software not to the hardware. And benchmarks gives a device a score based on raw power [hardware], not on how that power is being used in day to day tasks like apps opening, scrolling.. [software].
Isn't that obvious?
 
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TommyA6

macrumors 65816
May 15, 2013
1,056
516
that one video, with that one phone, proves everything claimed in this thread; apple does slow down older phones (altho my SE is working great)...
lol at "that one video". This is my phone and I can make a dozen of videos showing terrible UI stutters throughout iOS 11.
iOS 11 is a mess fluidity wise, just awful...
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,252
5,563
ny somewhere
lol at "that one video". This is my phone and I can make a dozen of videos showing terrible UI stutters throughout iOS 11.
iOS 11 is a mess fluidity wise, just awful...

yes, a dozen videos of your one phone (or do you have a dozen phones?) am not arguing with your experience, just that it may not be everyone's experience. that can't be that difficult to understand...
 
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