Other Apple is Really Bad at Design - Joshua Topolosky [MERGED]

[thadoggfather]

Nope, sorry, what I said is reality. Enjoy it.
[doublepost=1506792531][/doublepost]
Yes, but if an alien civilization saw the iPhone X and this mouse, they’d exterminate us for the iPhone X first, and it would be fully justified.

Probably. Apple supposedly had like 20-30 prototypes before narrowing it down?

I guarantee at least one is better than this iterative iPhone 6 with close but no cigar edge to edge and the notch forced upon us all

It's smart to have left bunny ear time and right one for LTE/wifi/battery but they should have blacked it out for a consistent status bar merging into the notch. Easy solution to a messy problem.

 

[jonnyb]

Topolsky's entire argument is based on a fallacy, ie that Apple designs were flawless before some imagined cut-off point. It was never this way, and there have been design mistakes and evolutionary dead ends throughout Apple's history.

Here are a few off the top of my head. There are many more.

iPod 3rd gen with the weird touch-sensitive buttons which were abandoned the following year.

iPod shuffle 3rd gen with no buttons. Design abandoned the following year.

G4 cube - flawed design where the plastic cracked

20th anniversary Mac - low powered vanity project

iBook - the original 'toilet seat' model which was widely derided

Hockey puck mouse - almost universally loathed

iPhone 4 antenna - iconic looks, but a flawed design fixed in later generations.

 

[eyoungren]

Hockey puck mouse - almost universally loathed

And the garbage non-extended keyboard with the stupid little chiclet arrows and no eject button that came with it.

Companies I worked for in that time period bought several G4s and the mice and keyboards were the first things to be replaced.

 

[thadoggfather]

Topolsky's entire argument is based on a fallacy, ie that Apple designs were flawless before some imagined cut-off point. It was never this way, and there have been design mistakes and evolutionary dead ends throughout Apple's history.

Here are a few off the top of my head. There are many more.

iPod 3rd gen with the weird touch-sensitive buttons which were abandoned the following year.

iPod shuffle 3th gen with no buttons. Design abandoned the following year.

G4 cube - flawed design where the plastic cracked

20th anniversary Mac - low powered vanity project

iBook - the original 'toilet seat' model which was widely derided

Hockey puck mouse - almost universally loathed

iPhone 4 antenna - iconic looks, but a flawed design fixed in later generations.

Shuffle was always flawed junk and priced appropriately, lacking an LCD screen

Hockey puck mouse changed over time they didn't keep the same circle over time it became an oval and more ergonomic for ones hand. Still had faults with that scroll ball that easily got dirty and turned useless but.

G4 cracking and antennagate are engineering colliding with design, faults

G4 cube was beautiful, Aesthetically. The trash can pro is a big departure from it IMO

We're talking design and aesthetic most notably in this thread but of course there are other related things involved with design to where it can't be the only thing discussed

iBook being a toilet is subjective too. I think apple's old school clamshells look great personally

4 generations of same iPhone 6 design is embarassing

Same with Apple TV looking the same since Apple TV 2. It just got taller but still a square hockey puck.

Old apple is by no means perfect as you've illustrated. But they have a much stronger track record of getting it right, and evolving on things they didn't get right instead of being complacent and pumping out the same thing over and over and over again

 

[jonnyb]

Shuffle was always flawed junk and priced appropriately, lacking an LCD screen

Hockey puck mouse changed over time they didn't keep the same circle over time it became an oval and more ergonomic for ones hand

G4 cracking and antennagate are engineering colliding with design, faults

G4 cube was beautiful, physically and aesthetically. The trash can pro is a big departure from it IMO

We're talking design and aesthetic most notably in this thread but of course there are other related things involved with design to where it can't be the only thing discussed

iBook being a toilet is subjective too. I think apple's old school clamshells look great personally

4 generations of same iPhone 6 design is embarassing

Same with Apple TV looking the same since Apple TV 2. It just got taller but still a square hockey puck.

I agree to an extent. This is why we have the Apple Pencil charging from the iPad lightning port: aesthetically dumb, but actually good 'how it works' design.

 

[9594864]

The iPhone X is phenomenally great from hardware engineering and hardware design standpoints. It is among the worst products in the last 20 years due only to software design, and software engineering. That is Apple’s current problem, and really has been for a long time.

Note: iOS 7 was far far superior design than previous iOS versions from an aesthetic standpoint, but it’s gotten worse and worse in engineering and now it’s declined the most in aesthetic of course. Moreover, they have a clear lack of direction as seen by drastic year over year changes, going from extremely thin fonts to bold large fonts in the span of just a couple years.

The notch is great, if it’s hidden in software, but the software draws attention to it, which is why it’s a problem only in software design. It’s the worst thing they’ve done in years and that’s saying a lot.

Now, the engineering embarrassment: they placed the Control Center in the top right of the status bar. They couldn’t be more stupid and I know that’s harsh to say, but it’s how us humans communicate that someone or something has done or has been given a lack of reasoning and intelligent design.

Intelligent design:
1. The notch is hidden in perpetuity by simply disallowing apps usage of the corners, and having them black with status elements being white (obvious).

2. The Notification Center/Lockscreen is removed from the top and is accessed via a rightward swipe on the Home bar

3. The Control Center is removed from the top right and is accessed via a leftward swipe on the Home bar.

4. A downward swipe from anywhere on the status bar now brings up widgets + search page, therefore giving this page single-swipe access from anywhere.

5. An upward swipe can be used on the Notification Center/Lockscreen and the Control Center to get back to the Home Screen, and thus, it not strictly be neccessitated that a user swipe backward on the Home bar.

 

[thadoggfather]

I agree to an extent. This is why we have the Apple Pencil charging from the iPad lightning port: aesthetically dumb, but actually good 'how it works' design.

Yeah I mean I charge my pencil with the iPad but it's a constant reminder of how dumb modern apple has gotten at the same timE

Speaking of Apple TV, atv4/4K remote is the worst regression ever. Can't tell if it's upside down or right side up in darkness.

AWFUL. Atv2/3 aluminum only remote with recessed buttons was infinitely better

I use a universal remote for my atv4

 

[bufffilm]

I agreed with a good many of his points.

The ipX may sell millions upon millions.

It won't change that fact that there are issues with the design choices Apple went with.

 

[jonnyb]

“Nobody asked for Face ID” is just dumb writing. Nobody asked for the iPhone either. They wanted an iPod that could make phone calls. The iPhone that was released wasn’t the one that Jony Ive originally envisioned; in the Samsung trial Ive's early sketches of the iPhone looked like what eventually became the iPhone 4.

He had to compromise on his vision to get the first iPhone designed and built. The notch is a design compromise too, but he feels it’s a necessary one to get nearer to Apple's ultimate vision for the iPhone. Could they have just put a black strip all the way across the top? Yeah, but they thought “let’s make it as much all-screen as we possibly can.”

 

[thadoggfather]

I agreed with a good many of his points.

The ipX may sell millions upon millions.

It won't change that fact that there are issues with the design choices Apple went with.

That's why I keep saying it's ok to be a hypocrite and get the X and really like it, while being miffed over short sighted and sloppy decisions apple has been making. They don't have to be mutually exclusive

Tho it would be awesome if an apple release genuinely tanked in relation to projected sales expectations to stick it to them to get ambitious again and lead the pack

It's a depressing trend

 

[bufffilm]

That's why I keep saying it's ok to be a hypocrite and get the X and really like it, while being miffed over short sighted and sloppy decisions apple has been making. They don't have to be mutually exclusive

Tho it would be awesome if an apple release genuinely tanked in relation to projected sales expectations to stick it to them to get ambitious again and lead the pack

It's a depressing trend

I'm a Apple stockholder so obviously Apple's fortunes mirror my own.

Having said that, if the ipX is a weak performer...Apple had it coming.

 

[Yankee512]

I couldn’t disagree more. But damn he’s a good writer.

https://theoutline.com/post/2352/apple-is-really-bad-at-design

I completely agree with what he said. Apples designs have gone down till over the last 7 years or so. Not impressed especially with the latest stuff. Can anyone say Dongles!
[doublepost=1506796822][/doublepost]

I agree to an extent. This is why we have the Apple Pencil charging from the iPad lightning port: aesthetically dumb, but actually good 'how it works' design.

Hmmm, no it's not. I don't like having to plug it in to either wake it up, or use it. It drains very fast when not using it. It doesn't seem to have a power save mode, so it dies very quick. I love my iPad Pro though, but the pencil isn't my favorite. They should have made it similar to the Note 8 works with no power.

 

[imanidiot]

An absolutely brilliant take. Could not agree more. And Kool-Aid is a very powerful drug. Apple is using its massive wealth and the unquestioning devotion of its acolytes (who frequently talk about Apple's sales and stock price as if it were theirs---think I'm kidding? Pace, this forum. Fanbois who have nothing to do with Apple clap their hands in glee at how much money their beloved Apple is making. WTF?) to obscure the fact that nothing much of import is happening, other than turning over the stale product line. (Remind you of anyone? Of course not). And I personally enjoy the passionate defense of "The Notch". Is there anything Apple could do to dampen their enthusiasm? Apparently not. Again, does Apple as an entity remind you of anyone? Probably not. Let's just obsess about iPHone X, which many people on this forum are apparently ready to sell their first-born in order to obtain on day one. Pathetic.

 

[macdragonfl]

I definitely think what your saying has a lot of thought and great points. Did you though ever consider that the notch is intentional as to differentiate the iPhone from other phones? I know it’s considered controversial, People are talking about it. Now when you lay the current models down the home button is how you know it’s a iPhone. If the notch was not there it would look like of any other phones from any one of the other companies that do edge to edge designs. I do completely agree with your evaluation about the UI and the gestures, The home bar idea sounds great. I don’t know it is the design teams as much of Jony Ives input into the os. Remember Steve Jobs was his editor, he would edit and tweak his hardware designs. Jobs also was a editor/tweaker of the os teams as well. Putting a hardware designer in charge of os team was a huge mistake. That is the biggest loss for Apple, a person that can do both sides with a critical eye and think in Apple’s past and future. His biggest mistake was not to groom someone to do what he did that well.

 

[9594864]

I definitely think what your saying has a lot of thought and great points. Did you though ever consider that the notch is intentional as to differentiate the iPhone from other phones? I know it’s considered controversial, People are talking about it. Now when you lay the current models down the home button is how you know it’s a iPhone. If the notch was not there it would look like of any other phones from any one of the other companies that do edge to edge designs. I do completely agree with your evaluation about the UI and the gestures, The home bar idea sounds great. I don’t know it is the design teams as much of Jony Ives input into the os. Remember Steve Jobs was his editor, he would edit and tweak his hardware designs. Jobs also was a editor/tweaker of the os teams as well. Putting a hardware designer in charge of os team was a huge mistake. That is the biggest loss for Apple, a person that can do both sides with a critical eye and think in Apple’s past and future. His biggest mistake was not to groom someone to do what he did that well.

Oh I fully agree it gives a new ‘iconic’ look aside from the radius of the corners, but there doesn’t need to be a look. Intelligent design doesn’t care about drawing attention to it, it’s about being intelligently designed such that people can use it the easiest and it makes the most sense for human beings. When you design like that you get the most people to buy the product, not designing to draw attention to the product. The ease-of-use draws the people.

 

[Smartass]

Totally agree on bold fonts. Looks really weird now

 

[576316]

Haha, think I got exactly the response I was expecting. Colour me disappointed. Even if you disagree, I think it still raises some important, indisputable points about the current state of Apple.

 

[kiranmk2]

Looking at the supply chain and Samsung phones I think it's fairly straight forward what happened. Apple seemingly wanted flexible OLED displays to give a true edge-to-edge look (similar to the S8) - likely with edge-to-edge on the left, right and bottom of the phone, but Samsung said no way they could make enough, so Apple has to go to plan B and use a rigid display which is why the iPhone X actually has 4 bezels. I wonder if the notch would have existed in Apple could have secured the flexible displays they requested.

Apple's PR machine has somehow managed to spin the display into a modern miracle (despite the fact that the true edge-to-edge S8 exists).

 

[thadoggfather]

Looking at the supply chain and Samsung phones I think it's fairly straight forward what happened. Apple seemingly wanted flexible OLED displays to give a true edge-to-edge look (similar to the S8) - likely with edge-to-edge on the left, right and bottom of the phone, but Samsung said no way they could make enough, so Apple has to go to plan B and use a rigid display which is why the iPhone X actually has 4 bezels. I wonder if the notch would have existed in Apple could have secured the flexible displays they requested.

Apple's PR machine has somehow managed to spin the display into a modern miracle (despite the fact that the true edge-to-edge S8 exists).

Wouldn't LG have been on the table too since V30 is OLED and they make display at apple volume for other non-OLED products?

 

[_Refurbished_]

Josh is great, but the notch is something that will be accepted in time and will be an iconic part of iPhones going forward. Design is often so subjective.

It’s stupid, no matter the acceptance. Stupid is stupid. It’s accepted because of brand loyalty. If this were a Samsung phone, people would be trolling them left and right.

 

[kiranmk2]

Wouldn't LG have been on the table too since V30 is OLED and they make display at apple volume for other non-OLED products?

Yes, but LG can't even make enough good quality flexible displays for their own phones, nevermind the quantity Apple wants. I'm not even sure that Apple will be able to acquire sufficient quantity of flexible panels for next year either as capacity is so constrained - LG are having a hard time scaling up and Samsung likely won't be able to up their capacity either. Apple should have been placing orders 2 years ago to be getting a decent supply in 2018 and it looks like they didn't...

 

[Adelphos33]

Topolsky is a blowhard that has been fired from his three or four past jobs

 

[ApfelKuchen]

You lost me at "indisputable." Well, actually, you lost me at "Haha..." If you're expecting a reasoned discussion on a topic, those are the wrong tactics to take.

 

[jonnysods]

I think the article states what many of us are getting. Apple is the anodised aluminium Microsoft of this era

 

[iSayBoourns]

Yes, but LG can't even make enough good quality flexible displays for their own phones, nevermind the quantity Apple wants. I'm not even sure that Apple will be able to acquire sufficient quantity of flexible panels for next year either as capacity is so constrained - LG are having a hard time scaling up and Samsung likely won't be able to up their capacity either. Apple should have been placing orders 2 years ago to be getting a decent supply in 2018 and it looks like they didn't...

Back in July 2017 Apple invested $2.6 billion into LG OLED manufacturing. Apple is planning on moving away from Samsung for OLED panels.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.mac...nvesting-billions-in-lg-for-oleds-report/amp/