Then buy the MacBook Air.
I don’t see why this is a difficult concept to grasp, to buy what you deem fit for your needs and budget. And you’re angry about this? Is Brexit getting a toll of your mental health? :shrug:
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Apple should be arrested for daylight robbery [MERGED]
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I don’t see why this is a difficult concept to grasp, to buy what you deem fit for your needs and budget. And you’re angry about this? Is Brexit getting a toll of your mental health? :shrug:
I make over $200k a year with a pretty cheap cost of living and think this pricing is outrageous. Why? Because other products, like the galaxy tab s4 are there. Not everyone is a freaking artist but apples likes to beat that drum. What they really want to do is sell the idea that anyone can be one if they get their products so a large chunk of people are lower income (college, etc) people.
I was 100% going to get one until the pricing. The iPad isn’t part of my ecosystem like my iPhone X and MacB Pro 15” are. The phone is my main go to so I wanted something to use for reading and watching videos when riding on airliners and stuck in hotels. I use them for study materials and manuals too. I have a need for a tablet but nothing about this one is special to justify its price to me.
Is this due to import taxes or low wages? I know nothing about Brazil really, but I remember PS4 were so expensive due to import taxes, eventually they stopped trying to sell them there.
no one is holding a gun to your head to make you buy the iPad Pro. cleanly you don't see a value in it because cost is your big thing, so don't buy it
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on the contrary the 'most loyal' fans don't ever say smack about Apple. to them everything and everyone Apple is shiny and wonderful and never ever bad or wrong
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actually yes you do buy the iPad Pro to replace a computer, depending on your uses. okay YOU don't but other folks do.
It is because of high import taxes and unfavorable exchange rates, but also because these products are becoming so expensive that Apple seems to be losing track of the economic reality of the rest of the world.
When the iPad was originally released in 2010, the base model was sold for USD 499. Now, the iPad Pro (which is the new base model) is sold for USD 799, and the full set includes the Pencil for USD 129 and the Folio for USD 179. The total price of the package is now USD 1,107. More than double the price. The iPad was expensive in 2010, and now it is prohibitive for nearly everyone in Brazil, including the majority of the wealthiest 1%.
The U.S. economy is really booming, and Apple may sell a lot countrywide. But it should not forget elsewhere. Just because Americans seem to be richer than they were in recent memory, that does not mean that the rest of the world got richer as well.
Germany, for instance, is one of the richest European countries (and one of the strongest economies in the world). The average net monthly income in Germany is € 2,270 (https://www.reinisfischer.com/average-salary-european-union-2018). An iPad Pro (base model) with the Apple Pencil and the Smart Folio costs € 1,213 in Germany, more than half of the average monthly income. And we are talking about Germany here. In France, Italy, or Spain, the situation is worse. That amount is just insane. It is just an iPad, which is going to get scratched and its screen cracked, and become obsolete in a few years. It is not a piece of jewelry.
You may say that you get more now than you got eight years ago. That is true, but it is also true that tech evolved, and that products in 2018 are supposed to offer more than products in 2010 at the same price point (otherwise there would be no point in upgrading).
Maybe both. As of today, an iPhone XS costs 1972 USD in Brazil (ouch). I remember the iPhone X being crazy expensive in Turkey too, something like 1700 USD.
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Honestly I don’t think Apple is so focused on market share and the developing world anymore.
They’ve tried with the iPhone SE, made the iPhone 6 well into 2017 just for India and in India, tried making the iPhone and iPad in Brazil, etc. etc. None of that worked. They’ve now done a 180, are ditching all lower cost products and are aiming at higher margins (as if they didn’t have enough money). Indians do not have enough money to buy Apple products, and Apple is happy to leave the lower-end to lower-margin Android phones.
They’re known for showing no mercy re. taxes and local currency fluctuations - it’s as if they really don’t care. When brexit came along, they jacked up the prices in GBP in no time. In volatile currency countries like Turkey, Russia and Brazil they do this literally all the time. I guess they do it in countries like Argentina as wel but those do not have an online store I can check. They really really don’t care about being competitive in such markets.
Congrats on your 200k a year. The fact that you mention the tab 4 in the same breath as the iPad Pro is laughable. Any android tablet for that matter is. The fact that you claim to make 200k and will not buy it because it’s 100-150 more than what you expected speaks volumes about you. Your either super cheap or really don’t care or want the device so you automatically disqualify yourself from the discussion amongst those who actually were looking to buy the device out of a need or want.
Well, by "developing world", you should mean every country except for the U.S.
When the iPad was released at a USD 499 price point in 2010, it was already prohibitive for the vast majority of the Brazilian population. The Brazilian average monthly income is, as of 2018, less than USD 600. Any iPad, including the old models, is already a pipe dream for nearly everyone in Brazil, especially after the high taxes imposed by the government. The iPad, and any other Apple product, has always been out of the budget of the average Brazilian. The situation is probably similar in countries such as Russia or India.
That is not the point. Apple products are expensive, and they have always been, so they will not sell in the millions in poorer countries. The point is that Apple products are becoming so expensive that even the very top richest people in Brazil are struggling with those prices. I also gave the example of Germany, and you mentioned the UK. Well, Germany and UK are the two strongest economies in Europe, which is the wealthiest continent in the world. They are not exactly developing countries. If Apple intends to sell its products only in the U.S., perhaps it will not be the largest company in the world for long.
Both. It's impossible to buy anything from Apple if you don't break the law by fooling customs. When that happens you still pay taxes, however much less all online stores do.
Still, with that massive price increase what was very expensive before now is impossible even for those that have the cash. I think you can get a car with the prices Apple is asking for these iPADs.
It's so expensive that even if you managed to pay 0 $ in import taxes you would not escape from exchange rates that ALONE will make it impossible to keep buying very often.
The worst part about all of this is that you don't recover most of the money you spent in your now outdated device and all the accessories.
I still think the best strategy is to only update when your device really becomes useless. And I don't mean after you use it for a long time. I mean when it's so outdated (at least 3-4 years old) that can't keep up with anything and it's very bad in comparison.
This isn't the case (by light years) when you compare the IPP 10.5 and these new iPADs.
And Apple might be guilty of many things, however we are still caving to them in the end of the day. Why we need to buy every year, can't we stop being shopaholics and with this urge for the latest tech for a while?
If you can't stay satisfied for that long then you are the problem.
You are right. Those prices are insane. Suppose you buy the following products from Apple:
- a 256 GB iPhone XS with a leather case;
- a 256 GB 11-inch iPad Pro Wi-Fi + Cellular with an Apple Pencil and the Smart Keyboard Folio; and
- a 512 GB 15-inch MacBook Pro (the standard high-end model).
That's already USD 5,404, taxes not included. And this does not include an iMac nor software, nor an Air Pod, or anything else. The basic set. USD 5k may look low when compared to a 200k income, but you certainly have other costs and spending so much in products from one company (2.5% of your yearly income) is not reasonable at all.
So skip it. I've skipped all of the later model phones from all manufacturers due to price, like hell a mobile telephone is worth 2 grand.
I had bought a used 12.9 and was really enjoying it but was having some touch sensitivity issues so I decided to sell it and wait for the new models.
I'm in the camp that was really pumped for the 11" pro right up until the price announcement. Now I don't really know what to do, I miss having an iPad loved taking notes on it etc, but I just don't know how I can justify nearly 1200 bucks for a 256 11" with an apple pencil.
I'm in the camp that was really pumped for the 11" pro right up until the price announcement. Now I don't really know what to do, I miss having an iPad loved taking notes on it etc, but I just don't know how I can justify nearly 1200 bucks for a 256 11" with an apple pencil.
Apple pricing is way up - that seems to be universally understood - they're testing how much their customers are willing to pay. At the same time, it seems like discounts are greater and more frequent than in the past (at non-Apple retailers). That's probably part of their strategy too - because eventually they want to reach those customers not willing to pay such a high premium. I expect they'll wait to see their market share drop a bit or until they start to get laughed out of the education market before they change that strategy...
Another thought - I see an analogy to a tug of war team - you get a cadence - a heave (a pull to higher prices in some years - like the X) then a bit of relaxation (kind of like the Xr). With that idea, you can probably expect higher 'value' iPads next year.
I hope Microsoft/Google/??? can use these windows to come out with competitive products...
Another thought - I see an analogy to a tug of war team - you get a cadence - a heave (a pull to higher prices in some years - like the X) then a bit of relaxation (kind of like the Xr). With that idea, you can probably expect higher 'value' iPads next year.
I hope Microsoft/Google/??? can use these windows to come out with competitive products...
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They were smart enough to keep the old MBA in production at the same price - to the dismay of corporate and educational IT departments around the world. Honestly it guts me to still see theses things being deployed in 2018, they’re basically the same since 2012.
I fully agree with you that they’re testing elasticity, to the detriment of us consumers (you can also call it gouging...)
Choosing to not buy something because the value doesn't make sense doesn't mean someone doesn't want it. And I don't think being cost sensitive means someone is disqualified from participating in a discussion.
It seems like Apple is positioning the $329 iPad for the EDU market. I actually do wonder if we'll get new iPPs next year. They seem to be going ~1.5 years between releases.
No they don't.
iPad Pro 12.9" 1st gen (2015) started at $799 with 32 gigs.
iPad Pro 12.9" 2nd gen (2017) started at $799 with 64 gigs.
iPad (1st gen) started at $499.
iPad 2 started at $499.
iPad "3" started at $499.
iPad 4 started at $499.
iPad Air started at $499.
iPad Air 2 started at $499. (I fixed a mistake here earlier.)
iPad 5th gen started at $329.
iPad 6th gen started at $329.
iPad Pro 9.7" started at $599 w/32 gigs.
iPad Pro 10.5" started at $649 w/64 gigs, a modest price bump for a much faster device w/twice the storage. I didn't even bother going into included storage on the earlier block of iPads.
For the cases where the prices were level, due to inflation, $499 was actually worth significantly more in previous years than in later years. So, by the time you went from original iPad to iPad Air, even though the $ amount was the same, the latter effectively cost less.
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Thanks for posting that list. It illustrates the reason why I’m bothered with the pricing of the new iPads....
BTW, to elaborate more, the cheaper iPad Pro 9.7" Pro came out after the more expensive original iPad Pro which was 12.9".
Below are starting prices for iPad minis, even though not related to this recent announcement.
iPad mini started at $329.
iPad mini 2 (1st to mini w/Retina display) started at $399.
iPad mini 3 started at $399.
iPad mini 4 started at $399.
And, there have been price cuts like https://mashable.com/2016/03/21/ipad-air-2-price/ (iPad Air 2 starting price went down from $499 to $399) and https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...nd-ipad-mini-4-storage-lowers-ipad-pro-prices.
Below are starting prices for iPad minis, even though not related to this recent announcement.
iPad mini started at $329.
iPad mini 2 (1st to mini w/Retina display) started at $399.
iPad mini 3 started at $399.
iPad mini 4 started at $399.
And, there have been price cuts like https://mashable.com/2016/03/21/ipad-air-2-price/ (iPad Air 2 starting price went down from $499 to $399) and https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...nd-ipad-mini-4-storage-lowers-ipad-pro-prices.
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What USD is considered rich in Brazil? You have me interested in how things are there since you live there. 600 USD a month is insane. Why does your government have such high import taxes?
I question if the iPad Pro is everything everyone needs to, the pricing is expensive, we all know that. But perhaps the iPad Pro and the differentiator of the lower-cost iPad might be just as feasible for some if they don’t need all the features that the new Pro offers.
I have a problem with "value" iPads. It means that Apple is raising the prices of the mainstream products and offering old tech for the price it used to charge for the mainstream products. I will never buy "value" products, but I am not happy either with Apple constantly raising the prices of the premium products up to the point they become nearly unaffordable.
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This is what Apple wants consumers to think. My list would be different:
iPad (1st gen) started at $499 in 2010
iPad (2nd gen) started at $499 in 2011
iPad (3rd gen) started at $499 in 2012
iPad (4th gen) started at $499 in 2012
iPad Air started at $499 in 2013
iPad Air 2 started at $499 in 2014
iPad Pro (1st gen) started at $599 in 2015
iPad Pro (2nd gen) started at $649 in 2017
iPad Pro (3rd gen) started at $799 in 2018
The iPad Pro is the successor to the original iPad and in the same line of upgrades. Upgrades are expected to add features, and this is what Apple did. Apple changes the name for marketing reasons. The 3rd gen iPad was called "new iPad". Then the iPad was called iPad Air and, finally, iPad Pro. It's all marketing. OK, the iPad Pro has more features than the original iPad. Of course it does. It is supposed to. It must have. This is the whole point of upgrading, and of tech advance.
The so-called 5th gen iPad was only released in 2017, so it cannot possibly be the successor of the Air 2, which was released in 2014, two and a half years before. The 5th-gen iPad is part of a line of "value" iPads, which replaced the older models which Apple used to keep. As Apple would not use the chassis of the old iPad Air 2 in the new products (the "Pro" line was upgraded with the 10.5" screen), it made sense for it to give a slight bump in the processor and call it as if it were a new product. However, two years and a half later, a small bump in speed, and no upgrade to the screen or to the chassis, is nearly no upgrade at all.
In fact, Apple DID increase the prices. The 9.7" 5th and 6th gen iPads are just leftovers of the old iPad line which Apple is giving slight upgrades to get rid of these parts which were not used at the time.
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It depends on the point of view. You have to consider that the exchange rate does not help, and that the cost of living in a city such as São Paulo or Rio de Janeiro is lower, in most part, than New York or Los Angeles.
There is huge social inequality in Brazil. If you ask the majority of the population, then they will say that USD 5,000 a month is a dream salary. However, if you ask the 1% wealthiest population, and which has access to education, they will generally say that they are middle-class. A research conducted with executives in São Paulo a few years ago concluded that the general perception was that a rich person would have a monthly income of at least USD 75,000. Given the high taxes in Brazil, to be reasonably rich you would really need to earn far more than USD 1 million a year.
The government charges high taxes for two reasons.
First, the governmental structure is heavily inflated. Millions of public servants, and billions of dollars wasted every year. Plus, the government used to finance large companies, and wasted well over USD 100 billion in the largest corruption scandal in the world ever, which resulted in a former president in jail and another one being impeached (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...his-the-biggest-corruption-scandal-in-history). All that costs a lot of money, and the money must come from somewhere.
Second, the government charges high taxes on the imports for protectionism. As taxes are generally so high, imports would compete with Brazilian products. So, the government imposes very heavy taxes on imports (over 100% on electronics) so they will not eat into the profits of Brazilian companies.
