Arctic Fox web browser for 10.6 (32 & 64-bit)

z970 · Apr 14, 2020

Raging Dufus said:
The only PPC version I see at that link is for ppc64le (little endian). That won't work for a G4 (big endian).

I thought only the G5s were big endian?

In any case, they must have a ppc64 version somewhere. I recall @xeno74 having a working 64-bit OpenSUSE environment on his G5.

Raging Dufus · Apr 14, 2020

Well, I really just couldn't resist a joke, but...

I was under the impression that every PPC chip Apple used was big endian. According to this Wikipedia entry, apparently some were for lack of a better term "bi-endian", able to switch back and forth; but were restricted to one mode or the other by the logic board. So today I learned something.

Another discussion I found on the topic seems to confirm that notion:

"I think it's probably fair to say all the Apple devices that shipped were big endian as the OS and firmware were, and while in theory the 32-bit machines could operate in little-endian mode I don't know of any distributions that actually did so, and 970 didn't support it."

As mentioned in that quote, I think you're right about the G5/970 being big endian only, which seems to be confirmed by another Wikipedia entry.

Didn't expect to need some schooling. Guess that's what I get for trying to be funny ?

EDIT #1: Seems I've heard of OpenSUSE being run on PPC too, but I'm pretty sure a ppc64le version isn't going to work on any PPC Mac. Perhaps there's another version available out there somewhere.

EDIT #2: Yes, seems OpenSUSE can be made to run on G5's at least:

SDB:Install openSUSE on an Apple PPC computer - openSUSE Wiki

en.opensuse.org

Macbookprodude · Apr 14, 2020

wicknix said:
Roccat really isn't an updated "browser". It's a front end for WebKit. So basically, it still uses safaris built in WebKit engine, which in snow leopards case is ancient. If you use roccat on 10.15 it would use 10.15's built in webkit, which is current.

The snow leopard OS, it's xcode and sdk (used to build software), are just too old and lacking the stuff needed to build newer FF or it's variants. So backporting FF bug fixes, security updates etc is what we are left with. It's not perfect, but it's the only currently maintained browser available for 10.6 (Other than tensixfox, but that's still just plain FF45 without tenfourfox updates).

Cheers

In other words, its just a matter of time before all PowerPC Macs will not be able to access internet, right ?

Dronecatcher · Apr 15, 2020

Macbookprodude said:
In other words, its just a matter of time before all PowerPC Macs will not be able to access internet, right ?

Just as much as with most devices.
But bear in mind, currently a 1999 Mac with TenFourFox has better access to the internet than a 2011 iPhone 4S.

Amethyst1 · Apr 15, 2020

Dronecatcher said:
But bear in mind, currently a 1999 Mac with TenFourFox has better access to the internet than a 2011 iPhone 4S.

... which is an amazing feat. And there's a couple of additional choices on Linux.

BurntSourdough · Apr 15, 2020

wicknix said:
PM27 was the last to work on 10.6, so we are unable to advance to 28 or the upcoming 29 code base. Basically AF is pretty much equivalent to tenfourfox. Not only in code base similarities, but patches and security fixes.

Cheers

I see. Isn't this equivalent of FF 38 If i recall correctly? I tried to browse through an archive of old FF themes (the real kind not personas) and didn't have luck having it recognize me even if i found what should be a matching version number. I have AF set in Firefox comparability mode.

wicknix · Apr 15, 2020

While PM27 was originally based off 38esr, the code has been patched with 45.9/52.9 and beyond code (bugs/security wise). Since PM, and now AF have gone down a different path from that of mozilla, themes need to be modified to work. The ones already ported are on PM's site. AF (and PM) are not Firefox. They are based on mozilla code yes, but that's as close as they get. Hope that helps explain its background a little.

Cheers

Macbookprodude · Apr 16, 2020

Dronecatcher said:
Just as much as with most devices.
But bear in mind, currently a 1999 Mac with TenFourFox has better access to the internet than a 2011 iPhone 4S.

Thats cool. I have a PowerBook Pismo G4(was G3 500), PowerBook G4 1.67 DLSD which I am trying to get OS 9 to run on thanks to os9lives.com, and a Quad G5.

xeno74 · Apr 17, 2020

z970mp said:
I thought only the G5s were big endian?

In any case, they must have a ppc64 version somewhere. I recall @xeno74 having a working 64-bit OpenSUSE environment on his G5.

BurntSourdough · Apr 21, 2020

wicknix said:
While PM27 was originally based off 38esr, the code has been patched with 45.9/52.9 and beyond code (bugs/security wise). Since PM, and now AF have gone down a different path from that of mozilla, themes need to be modified to work. The ones already ported are on PM's site. AF (and PM) are not Firefox. They are based on mozilla code yes, but that's as close as they get. Hope that helps explain its background a little.

Cheers

Ah I figured that may be the case but I thought something as basic as an old theme would still function. I guess not.

I found what may be a bug in AF or perhaps it came from PM ported over since it's a behaviour I didn't see in the last available version of FF for Snow Leopard. On AF intel version when logging into a First Bank account then directs to NetTeller (as it's supposed to) it seems to get hung up. It just is trying to connect to the site but never seems to load. It just perpetually attempts loading to no avail. Stopping it and reloading the page doesn't seem to get around this either nor does trying again. It loads in FF though. This happened consistently on different days and times. I don't know if this occurs on other banking sites that use NetTeller or not and I don't know of Pale Moon or other versions of Arctic Fox has the same issue.

RobJos · Apr 22, 2020

BurntSourdough said:
Ah I figured that may be the case but I thought something as basic as an old theme would still function. I guess not.

I found what may be a bug in AF or perhaps it came from PM ported over since it's a behaviour I didn't see in the last available version of FF for Snow Leopard. On AF intel version when logging into a First Bank account then directs to NetTeller (as it's supposed to) it seems to get hung up. It just is trying to connect to the site but never seems to load. It just perpetually attempts loading to no avail. Stopping it and reloading the page doesn't seem to get around this either nor does trying again. It loads in FF though. This happened consistently on different days and times. I don't know if this occurs on other banking sites that use NetTeller or not and I don't know of Pale Moon or other versions of Arctic Fox has the same issue.

I don't know First Bank or NetTeller, but as a registered user of a good number of international financial websites, payment portals and the like with enhanced security requirements, I come across 1. those allowing straightforward access in AF; 2. those allowing access only after some fiddling (cookies, ad and js blocking, user agent etc.); and 3. those that don't load in AF, no matter what — not so few, alas. For those I can't live without, I haven't found a better solution than a latest generation browser in a Linux installation running as a virtual image. PM28 usually works fine for this purpose, but Firefox or Opera would do too. Wicknix can probably summarize the technicities behind this for you.

MJWMac1988 · Apr 28, 2020

Hi, wicknix.

Is it possible to make Arctic Fox compatible with familysearch.org? The homepage and certain other links on it appear to be compatible; however, the "Search" and "Family Tree" pages actually don't work. They haven't worked in any Snow Leopard-compatible browser for a year or more now.

The incompatibility (at least in Snow Leopard) appears only after you have logged in (registration is free). You will get this warning:

Attention: This site does not support the current version of your web browser. To get the best possible experience using our website we recommend that you upgrade to a newer version or install another browser.

FamilySearch will not show you your search results if you aren't logged in (I believe you should still be able to register anonymously, if that matters to you). If you try to do a search in spite of the warning, the page will either go mostly blank, or there will be several spinning wheels that never stop.

I've been intending to ask you about this for the past year, but I just kept putting it off. I sincerely thank you for any help you might be able to provide.

wicknix · Apr 28, 2020

It might be due to the older backend in AF. Can you try this browser? It's based on some newer code. It will probably work.

SpiderWeb browser for Snow Leopard released (32-bit)

Yes, you read that right. Now, just so you are aware, this is based on Basilisk/Borealis code from early 2018, which was probably it's first or second release after it forked from FF52.9/seamonkey. I had been picking at this on and off since then. So, with that said, it's not the latest and...

forums.macrumors.com

Cheers

MJWMac1988 · Apr 28, 2020

wicknix said:
Can you try this browser? It's based on some newer code. It will probably work.

SpiderWeb browser for Snow Leopard released (32-bit)

Yes, you read that right. Now, just so you are aware, this is based on Basilisk/Borealis code from early 2018, which was probably it's first or second release after it forked from FF52.9/seamonkey. I had been picking at this on and off since then. So, with that said, it's not the latest and...

forums.macrumors.com

Coincidentally, I tried InterWeb this morning, shortly before I wrote to you. I tried to open it twice, and it "unexpectedly quit" each time. In fact, it really didn't even open. It only made it far enough to just barely invoke the "unexpectedly quit" warning before it quit.

I can't tell if you are saying that Arctic Fox can or cannot be updated to work with FamilySearch.org. If it can't, it's not a huge deal. It's just that I prefer to use the much older version 9 of a genealogy app called Reunion for Mac. It works in Sierra and High Sierra, but it unexpectedly quits a lot more often than it should (and there are minor interface flaws). It seems to work normally in Mojave, but Mojave isn't compatible with my Late 2009 27" iMac, even with the Mojave Patcher. If necessary, I will use Reunion in Sierra and just try to remember to quit as often as possible -- before it unexpectedly quits on me.

So, just so I'm clear on this: Is it not possible to update Arctic Fox's "older backend" to make it compatible with FamilySearch.org? Thanks!

wicknix · Apr 28, 2020

Correct. Arctic Fox's backend can't be fully updated. We backport what we can, but it will never be up to FF52.9esr and above standards. Mostly we just add security patches and bug fixes. It will continue to be cross platform and lightweight, but some java script heavy sites with loads of css will probably give it the finger.

As for interweb, you need to copy the 2 included libraries in the libc++.zip for it to work.

Cheers

MJWMac1988 · Apr 28, 2020

Thanks. InterWeb works now that I've copied those two files into usr/lib. The FamilySearch website also mostly works. The only problem I've experienced so far (during a very quick test run of FamilySearch) is that InterWeb keeps freezing for about ten seconds, until the "Warning: Unresponsive script" appears. I don't know how to "Debug scripts," but I clicked that button the first time just to see what would happen. I closed the script pane and did a search and it seemed to work. I reloaded the search page from scratch so that I would get the warning again. I then clicked "Continue," and the search worked again, although that may be because I didn't access whatever the "broken" part of the script does. The third time I tried it, I clicked "Stop Script," and this time my search yielded a blank, white (broken) page.

But at least Interweb works well enough that I will get some good use out of it. It works very well with the few other websites I visited. Thank you very much!

wicknix · Apr 28, 2020

No problem. It'll make a good backup browser for those sites that don't cooperate with arctic fox. Interweb hasn't had any updates in 2 years, so just like using an old OS, just surf smartly with it.

Cheers

z970 · Apr 28, 2020

For what it's worth, I haven't seen the "Unresponsive Script" message on any browser I've used after foxPEP was installed.

That might help.

wicknix · Apr 28, 2020

Generally it's caused by ads/ad servers. With a custom hosts file or adblock add-on you'll more than likely never see that either.

Cheers

z970 · Apr 28, 2020

Maybe it's because foxPEP blocks all third-party cookies, which ads rely on to properly function...

MJWMac1988 · Apr 29, 2020

z970mp said:
For what it's worth, I haven't seen the "Unresponsive Script" message on any browser I've used after foxPEP was installed.

Thank you for the suggestion. Regrettably, it didn't fix the problem. I installed it in both Arctic Fox and InterWeb, but it made no difference.

Maybe it's because foxPEP blocks all third-party cookies, which ads rely on to properly function...

FamilySearch.org has no ads. It is run by a non-profit. It's an odd (and frustrating) site in the sense that all search results appear on the screen only through scripts (I don't know how to properly phrase that; you would have to try it to see what I mean). That's why one gets nothing but a blank page when the script is disabled. This site has operated this way for at least the past 15 years and probably longer (I've been using it for 20 years, give or take). It was terribly slow and clunky/unwieldy for most of those 15 years. Only recently (past few weeks?) has their scripting started to work very quickly and efficiently. It has been almost a pleasure (instead of a chore) to use the website with the newest version of Firefox this morning.

QUESTION: Will InterWeb ever be updated again?

Dronecatcher · Apr 29, 2020

MJWMac1988 said:
Regrettably, it didn't fix the problem.

Have you tried running a browser with a mobile device user agent?

verdantppc · May 6, 2020

How do I check if Arctic Fox can run scripts and if not, enable it to do so?

I ask because Outlook Web App has suddenly stopped running and throwing up a message telling me that scripts need to run.....?

wicknix · May 6, 2020

Do you have noscript or umatrix installed by chance? Those might be interfering. By default JS is enabled. The other possibility is that outlook updated their backend and it now uses ecmascript 7 which AF doesn't have support for.

Cheers

verdantppc · May 6, 2020

Thanks for your reply. I installed a fresh AF from the zip installer and had the same issue.

Hence I suspected a corrupted bookmark URL since Outlook Web App still functioned OK on the TenFourFox on Intel versions: Parity Release 14 and 45.9.0 on the same OS X 10.6.8 system.

So I cut and pasted the URL from TenFourFox on Intel back into the AF Outlook bookmark properties, which has got Outlook Web app working again in my AF.

Arctic Fox web browser for 10.6 (32 & 64-bit)

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