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ARM based MacBook Pro discussion [merged]
- Thread starter Omega Mac
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As I recall, Fedora originated from Red Hat Linux. The now Ubuntu became more popular.
Using Steve's metaphor of the Truck, I will explain why Apple won't be leaving Intel for at least half a decade.
1-3 on this list can operate with an ARM, as their purpose is portability over power.
But ARM has shown incapable (so far, that may change with A12) of handling pure RAW bit crunching like an i7 with 32GB. As RISC processors become commonplace, people are finding ways to overcome Intel's CISC monopoly. Apple is leading that charge, but the A series still lacks the RAW power of Intel's x86-64 CISC.
But Intel has made the fatal mistake of throwing money at a problem they identified 15 years ago as unsolvable. Eventually, Moore's Law calculates that the amount of money spent on advancing the speed doubles until it collapses before curving back up again astronomically in an S-Wave. Intel is now beginning the steep climb necessary to continually meet Moore's Law. Also, the Motherboard has to balloon to create more complex registers to meet the demand of the increasing need for more CPUs (CPU Quantity vs Quality.
Meanwhile 90% of processor architecture is moving to RISC, because it allows for more common registers and the motherboards can be ridiculously tiny (CPU Quality vs Quantity). RISC will complete the same instructions in the ballpark same amount of time as a CISC (within 10-30 seconds), but with half the processors. Sure, you need more RAM but RAM is like Vodka in Russia.
It will take Apple 5 more years of steady and consistent development to create a processor for 4-6.
Just go ahead and buy the machine and quit listening to Bloomberg and their awful journalism.
- The iPhone is a sports car. It gets many things done quickly, but it has no towing capacity. It can only carry two people. It's a one person car that moves quick and gets light things done. It's sleek and sexy. Fun for showing off.
- The iPad is a small truck. It does A-B and carries a heavy load, but it has a small bed and carries only two people. It'll get the job done, but it isn't luxurious nor is it gonna tow anything. It is great for moving a couch, not moving a boat.
- The MacBook is a coupe. It can carry four people, but it still only has two doors. The engine is underpowered typically, but it saves on fuel consumption. Like a hybrid, the utility is in fuel consumption vs range. MacBooks are great for basic computing that requires a full sized keyboard. But beyond that, it's just a hybrid.
- The MacBook Pro is a Sedan. It has four doors, carries lots of people and has tons of space and room. Larger screens, keyboards, frames. Engine/Processor is more powerful to carry this extra weight. It's luxurious and powerful and some sedans can tow if you get the V8-V12 (i7 with 16GB RAM).
- The iMac is basically an SUV. It's large and clunky and not very portable. Fuel conservation? I'm plugged into the wall/a massive steel frame with wheels. It is about doing load and carrying several people. It's a work horse that typically is great for long hauls with the kids. Other than that, it's an SUV.
- The iMac Pro/Mac Pro are Heavy Duty trucks or Tractor Trailers with V-12 engines and could care less about fuel conservation. They are about RAW POWER. Bit crunching and data driven, these machines plow through anything thrown at them. No portable machine can match their output.
1-3 on this list can operate with an ARM, as their purpose is portability over power.
But ARM has shown incapable (so far, that may change with A12) of handling pure RAW bit crunching like an i7 with 32GB. As RISC processors become commonplace, people are finding ways to overcome Intel's CISC monopoly. Apple is leading that charge, but the A series still lacks the RAW power of Intel's x86-64 CISC.
But Intel has made the fatal mistake of throwing money at a problem they identified 15 years ago as unsolvable. Eventually, Moore's Law calculates that the amount of money spent on advancing the speed doubles until it collapses before curving back up again astronomically in an S-Wave. Intel is now beginning the steep climb necessary to continually meet Moore's Law. Also, the Motherboard has to balloon to create more complex registers to meet the demand of the increasing need for more CPUs (CPU Quantity vs Quality.
Meanwhile 90% of processor architecture is moving to RISC, because it allows for more common registers and the motherboards can be ridiculously tiny (CPU Quality vs Quantity). RISC will complete the same instructions in the ballpark same amount of time as a CISC (within 10-30 seconds), but with half the processors. Sure, you need more RAM but RAM is like Vodka in Russia.
It will take Apple 5 more years of steady and consistent development to create a processor for 4-6.
Just go ahead and buy the machine and quit listening to Bloomberg and their awful journalism.
Not hyperbole it’s a fact . USB C can do more then just power a device unlike MagSafe . If you want MagSafe go buy an adapter. Best of both worlds
I mean - "Will you upgrade in 2018/2019" kind of depends on what's available. I might, or I might go to Windows. Or I might decide to hold out. Seems a little odd to ask before there's any real info about the 2018 let alone 2019 options.
A) It is happening, they have been working on the new keyboard for over a year.
B) Who says a new MagSafe wouldn’t use USB-C?
C) Likely because of palm rejection, but not happening.
D) Hopefully not because we’ll see new pricing this year.
A) No it’s not not in any meaningful way
B) MagSafe =/= usb C. Totally different tech. You want MagSafe just to buy a cheap adapter and stop whining
C) as I said it’s not and it’s already the best touchpad ever made
D) ummm you will be waiting . Pricing will stay relatively the same .
Yes, MagSafe 2 and USB-C ports are entirely different, not ‘totally different tech’, but they are different. You clearly don’t know what I mean and are probably imagining I am suggesting a USB-C shaped plug with the contacts at the back. That wouldn’t be USB-C.
At the end of the day you don’t know what you’re talking about regarding this matter and are simply wrong.
No I do . USB c is here to stay . If you want the MagSafe go buy an adapter. Apple isn’t going to change anything specially when you have alternatives. What you want an overpriced Apple adapter ?
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But it isn’t superior “in every way,” as you claimed. MagSafe was great at its selling point – protecting the computer from being pulled off the table accidentally. I really, really like USB C, but it definitely isn’t better at that.
The creator of that project is being hammered in the Kickstarter comments for undelivered product and not replying to customer concerns. I’d be cautious with that company if it were me.
In fact, these days, the shields go up whenever I see any URL with “Kickstarter.com” in it.
I think an ARM based laptop is how Apple reacts to the Surface. It will run IOS, but be in a laptop format, so you get an integrated keyboard and a touch screen, pen input, etc. Call that a MacBook and any laptop running MacOS is MacBook Pro. Now you have differentiation in the lineup.
A IOS-based laptop is the 90% solution for most students, even a lot of Enterprise users.
ARM-based MacOS - if it happens - is a long ways off due to all the app recompiling and migration headaches.
A IOS-based laptop is the 90% solution for most students, even a lot of Enterprise users.
ARM-based MacOS - if it happens - is a long ways off due to all the app recompiling and migration headaches.
So basically an iPad Pro with a non-detachable keyboard? It would be a shame. Not as portable as an iPad and not as versatile as a MacBook...
I doubt it. Probably be an extension of the ARM capabilities of the current TouchBar MacBook pros. Where the current product’s touchbar use ARM for the TouchId component, I suspect Apple will be extending the reach of ARM in order to enable running iOS Apps in macOS, rather than in some sort of software emulator, and the TouchBar will be used for touch interaction with those apps that need it.
That's what I have in mind too when they talk about ARM Macs. I was just responding to the theory @gmanWA shared.
From a product perspective a device that runs both IOS and MacOS would be difficult to explain, market and support. With IOS not having any way besides iCloud Drive to access documents in MacOS (among many other cross-platform issues) - this type of device is not something Apple would bring to market.
An ARM laptop running IOS fits perfectly with Apple's renewed interest in education as well as cheap Enterprise offerings. They should be able to bring this laptop in under $500 and now Apple has a viable competitor to Chromebooks, the rumored cheaper Surface.
No TouchBar, maybe TouchID, 2 - USB-C ports and hopefully magsafe (thinking about the children).
I do think eventually Apple will make its own chips for MacOS - but it has a ways to go on that front and then its a 3-5 year transition time as everything gets ported and recompiled.
You lost me there. There is absolutely no way that Apple will release something like that for less than $500.
There are way more signs that they will enable iOS apps to run within macOS this year, than there are that they will release an iOS laptop.
So two App stores - and you are asking end users to figure out how to go to the IOS app store for application X and the Mac App store for application Y? Not happening.
Some of the biggest criticisms of Apple's education offerings - including the latest education push is that school districts are not going to get on board with tablets and their fragile exposed screens. The latest iPad is $329 and that comes with more storage than most students will need.
I don't think Apple is afraid of that price point if it gets enough sales, and school district contracts would constitute enough sales and again, now you have a clear delineation between the MacBook product line (IOS) and the MacBook Pro (MacOS).
This is a laptop for content consumers and students - it's not a powerhouse and doesn't need to be.
What they should do it have some sort of... keyboard attachment for... some sort of large screened device... kind of like an iPhone, but bigger, maybe? Then you could detach the keyboard and still use the bigger iPhone as a standalone tablet if you wanted!
You assume too much if you think Apple has to have 2 different app stores. You also assume too much if you believe that’s what I thought. It’s just a front end. Apps can be filtered on the back end to only display appropriate apps depending on the client device. In this case, it would display both iOS and macOS apps for such a device.
What’s not happening is Apple announcing an education-based iOS “laptop”, let alone one less than a mere 6 months after announcing their latest iPad at the education event in March. That would be absolutely ludicrous, IMO.
Latest iPad comes with more storage than most students need, and for $329? Well then, add a Bluetooth keyboard case combo for another $100-$150, and there’s your ARM-based iOS “laptop”, for less than $500.