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ATV and piracy
- Thread starter DrEnalg
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This is an interesting discussion.
Is using the public library stealing?
You don't pay for membership.
You don't pay to borrow books OR DVDs.
You get the same experience as the person who downloads, yet the d/l is a criminal.
It's a sticky situation.
Is using the public library stealing?
You don't pay for membership.
You don't pay to borrow books OR DVDs.
You get the same experience as the person who downloads, yet the d/l is a criminal.
It's a sticky situation.
Really? Your library has all the latest movies, as they come out? Mine only has a limited selection of old ones. Some great public library you have.
You're lucky your government purchased a copy of it and allows one person at a time to check it out, watch it and bring it back for the next person. Even less excuse to steal it off the internet when it's legally available to you for free (via your tax dollars, that is).
It takes hours to download a movie?
Hypothetically speaking, even if I had a media server with 24 TB of storage, if a movie I obtained sucked (as most do), it would get deleted.
But seeing as it takes so long to download a movie, I'm glad I didn't spend the money and time on that server, which would just be ridiculous.
The more apt example would be this: You buy a car and intend to pay for it by renting it to other people for quick trips. The first guy who rents it copies your keys and gives those copies to every one who would have rented it from you, had they not gotten the keys from that guy. So, instead of renting your car, they just use their keys to get the use of your car for free. You try to protect your car by putting it in a garage (drm), but someone keeps finding a way to break in and give free access to everyone else. Fair, huh?
The Public library is funded through tax dollars in my town.
I applaud anyone who takes advantage of the tax layer supported program.
There are federal, state and town/city laws governing libraries.
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As long as you don't charge for viewing it, the macrumors ethics police will should roll right past your friends house.
That's almost the right example, except: instead of buying one car, you bought an infinite number of cars.
Clearly I will never convince you to change your attitude towards piracy.
I just want readers of this forum to understand that by choosing to pirate, you are impacting the livelihood of many thousands of real, normal and hardworking people like me, and not just the faceless corporations and movie studios.
Ultimately, you have the choice to support artists, writers and musicians by paying for what they produce, or screwing them over by taking it.
Here's how I view most things that I pay for:
1. Car - I can go to a dealership and look at every car available. I can also test drive every car available basically with no questions asked. When you look over the contract most "test drive" policies require the car to be back in the lot by end of business "unless otherwise noted". Really I could test drive to car a couple hundred miles and not break any rules and really decide if I want to spend money on the thing.
2. Computer - Go to a store and the computers are sitting out and about for me to play with. I can basically do anything on it I would want to do at home to get a feel for the computer and see if it matches my needs.
3. Music - I can go to YouTube, turn on my TV or turn on my radio and listen to the newest songs from a specific artist. I can listen to any track I want on YouTube from basically any artist that enters my mind. And then decide if I enjoy the music and buy it.
4. Books - I can go to a library, a bookstore and in most cases Amazon and find a book and start reading it. Not just the synopsis, but the book itself. If I like the book I buy it.
5. Clothes - I can go to a store and try on all the clothes I want and then decide what to buy.
I don't really see what my options are for testing out a movie before deciding to buy the thing. Plus it’s a movie, its entertainment. I'm not going to watch the movie every day at all. I will watch it myself, then again when I show some friends, and then again when I'm home sick and have nothing better to do. It's even worse at the theater. There I spend $15 and watch and only have the ability to watch the thing once. After I spend $15 at the theater, 4 months later I can decide to spend $25-$30 when it comes out on DVD/BR, just to either watch it again or have it for my collection. So by my second viewing I've already invested $40-$50 in the movie.
And sure at this time I also have the ability to pay $10 to stream over iTunes or On Demand.
And sure, part way through a horrible movie I can leave the theater and demand my money back like an ass hole. But that’s not what I should have to do.
But the way I see it is, when I download a movie I'm taking my test drive. If I like what I'm seeing and I enjoy it, then I will go out and buy it.
I don't think buying a movie should be like playing the lottery. Plus with the dumb **** America pumps out in what they call movies, I would be wasting so much money all the time if I bought every film I wanted to see, or watched it in the theater.
I can honestly say when I download a movie I'm downloading it because I have expectations. And if those are met (usually about 80% are) then I will blow all the money I can on it. I'll buy a damn poster for the movie too just to give them some more money. I went to film school; I believe we should all be paid for our work. But there’s a reason every piece of art isn’t sitting in a museum, because a lot are trash and honestly don’t deserve recognition.
But I see no reason why I should have to waste money to watch a **** movie. The only test drive I and everyone else currently has available is a 2 minute trailer, edited to make the movie appear amazing. If the average movie is 90 minutes long, my free test drive let me see about 1-2% of the film.
At the moment we have a little over 340 DVDs/BRs in our collection (legit, spent money on, pristine condition and displayed beautifully because movies are our life). I can honestly say that over 150 of them we would not own had we not downloaded them in the first place.
If a film studio really gets pissed at me because I watched their movie for free and I hated it and didn't want to spend money on it so be it, I feel I have that right. I can’t really think of any other product that I have to buy straight up with no inkling of whether or not I even want the product in the first place.
In my opinion I'm doing nothing wrong. I probably throw way more money into movies than most people ever will in their lives. When you are buying 5-10 DVDs/BRs a month that's a **** load of money (IMO) and I deserve to decide where my money goes. If the entertainment world ever wanted to come down on me then so be it, I feel I'm the exact type of person that keeps the film industry alive.
sorry for all the text....
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I'm just ticked that most movies are in AVI or MKV format. I want mp4!!!
I'm just ticked that most movies are in AVI or MKV format. I want mp4!!!
some of you guys on here are actually justifying stealing.. SO the price of something is too high you just steal it.. That sounds crazy. SO if i had a a baby at home , went to the store to buy some baby milk and the price was too high I just gonna steal the baby milk.. No im gonna buy it.
Some of you guys on this forum need to turn off your highprices MBA and MBP. GO outside and walk around for a while. Take a walk around and take a nice deep breathe and breathe in some reality. You guys can buy high priced mac computers and Ipads and iphones but dont wanna pay 10-15 bucks for a movie... wow ...
Stop being delusional nerds..
Some of you guys on this forum need to turn off your highprices MBA and MBP. GO outside and walk around for a while. Take a walk around and take a nice deep breathe and breathe in some reality. You guys can buy high priced mac computers and Ipads and iphones but dont wanna pay 10-15 bucks for a movie... wow ...
Stop being delusional nerds..
If I download a copyrighted movie, view it then delete it without distributing it or charging anyone for it, which of the following am I doing:
A: Theft (From dictionary.com)
verb (used with object): to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
-OR-
B: Copyright Infringement
-noun: a violation of the rights secured by a copyright.
Obviously, the answer is B. If I pickpocket someone and steal their watch, I am TAKING that person's watch, i.e, they no longer have the watch and I do. If I download a COPY of a movie, every single other person who has the movie by whatever means they acquired it, STILL has their copy of the said movie.
The above are facts, the following is simply my opinion: The only real argument against downloading movies is the Tom/Dick/Harry that makes a normal salary doing work on a movie may suffer financially due to piracy. I would counter this argument by saying if a movie made 50 million dollars instead of 51 million dollars due to piracy; instead of laying off the 25 Tom/Dick/Harry workers making $40,000 a year each, why don't the movie companies simply pay the equivalent of $1 million less to one or more of the lead actors with their already bloated and outrageous salaries? Let's be honest, the lead actors only make what they make because movie companies are willing to pay it. If they all banded together, sooner or later the actors would accept that they cannot make millions of dollars for their movies and take what they can get.
Is it a violation of law to commit Copyright Infringement? Of course. Is it a violation of basic moral code? That's up to each of us, but I say, no.
A: Theft (From dictionary.com)
verb (used with object): to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
-OR-
B: Copyright Infringement
-noun: a violation of the rights secured by a copyright.
Obviously, the answer is B. If I pickpocket someone and steal their watch, I am TAKING that person's watch, i.e, they no longer have the watch and I do. If I download a COPY of a movie, every single other person who has the movie by whatever means they acquired it, STILL has their copy of the said movie.
The above are facts, the following is simply my opinion: The only real argument against downloading movies is the Tom/Dick/Harry that makes a normal salary doing work on a movie may suffer financially due to piracy. I would counter this argument by saying if a movie made 50 million dollars instead of 51 million dollars due to piracy; instead of laying off the 25 Tom/Dick/Harry workers making $40,000 a year each, why don't the movie companies simply pay the equivalent of $1 million less to one or more of the lead actors with their already bloated and outrageous salaries? Let's be honest, the lead actors only make what they make because movie companies are willing to pay it. If they all banded together, sooner or later the actors would accept that they cannot make millions of dollars for their movies and take what they can get.
Is it a violation of law to commit Copyright Infringement? Of course. Is it a violation of basic moral code? That's up to each of us, but I say, no.
Wow, what a load of crap to justify your low morals. So YOU decide who makes too much money and based on that, your morals change to fit. Oh, and now you're some kind of Robin Hood changing how the studios distribute their lower profits. Yeah, right, it's not because you're a cheap SOB, you're making a statement. Kind of like when robbers break into someone's home and steals their stuff because that family has nicer things than they do and they should spread the nice stuff to the people who didn't work hard to earn it. Kind of like Communism. I'd say people in China think you make an insane amount of money for what you do so maybe they should be able to get your salary lowered by counterfeiting products usually made in the USA and selling them at outrageously low prices at Walmart. Hmm- will you like that when it happens? And at what point, by your logic, are too many people getting movies for free? If piracy got to the point where 75% of people didn't pay to watch movies and the movie studios just stopped putting out the big budget movies you enjoy, would you then decide it's the wrong thing to do? Rules don't only apply to you when you decide they do. They apply all the time.
I think you're mistaken, heck I think you're even living in cloud cuckoo land if you believe that. I've downloaded loads of TV shows for a variety of reasons, and most people I know do the same. I don't know a single person who has ever uploaded anything, I certainly haven't. P2P downloading is yesterday's news.
Granted, I'm not an expert at piracy but from what I do know, using BitTorrent via a website like Pirate Bay is very popular and the basic concept behind it is to get the movie via one or more seeders and, in return, you are supposed to reseed at an equivalent rate, otherwise you could be banned for being a parasite who doesn't reseed. If there are very few seeders or seeders who don't keep their connections live, it can take a very long time to fully download a movie, especially movies that are no longer popular to download. Anyone care to dispute this? Maybe you are unaware that other people are getting a seed from you as you are getting it from someone else.
Wow well I'm not sure why you feel the need to make personal attacks against me just because I don't agree with your views but I will simply point out if you believe in the words in the Bible, then I suggest you study the following quote closely "let him without sin cast the first stone." If not, then the more secular version, "don't throw stones if you live in a glass house." I'll assume since you made these assumptions about my moral code that you yourself are perfect and have never committed any type of crime, sin, or violation of any rule whatsoever. For that, I must admit, you are a better person than I, Ms. Perfect.
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For one, I'm an atheist (which is funny because I seem to have a better sense of morals than many people who claim to be religious). For two, I'm a woman. For three, I most certainly have done some bad things for my own self interest, just like everyone else. The difference is, I admit I've done wrong and I change what I do to be better. I tried the whole downloading thing for a couple days when I was tired of watching True Blood one dvd a week from Netflix. I told myself this lie: "It's ok, I'm paying for them via Netflix, I'm just getting them a quicker way". Then I woke up and decided that was bull and not something I was going to do any more because that's not the kind of person I want to be. In June, I'll be subscribing to HBO and getting True Blood legitimately. You've made your choice in the kind of person you want to be.
That's right. In fact, without the profits from the big movies there wouldn't be any budget for small films to be made by new artists and about stories that should be told but won't get a "Pirates of the Caribbean" level audience. That's why it's especially disturbing to hear a film student justify pirating. But, they'll find out how impossible it is to get funding when they want to actually make a film. I've participated in the independent film industry where I live and it's a lot of hard work, most of the time for NO pay. The most I've ever been paid was $8/hr for being an extra in a Cohen brothers movie "A Serious Man". The actors who make big money will always make big money because they are the reason people want to see a movie. The people who get hurt by piracy are the more expendable people just trying to make a basic living.
Restaurant food. College education. Marriage. Vacation trip.
Life's full of unknowns. Geez, good thing you didn't live in the world I grew up in before the internet, dvd rentals, etc. Everything was just all scary and unknown and full of disappointment, lol. You actually had to hear from your friends whether a movie was good or a record was worth owning. No instant gratification and a thousand ways to steal things. The worst thing you could do is tape a song you liked over the radio. No way to share that with thousands of other people.
The thing that's going *poof* is the money that person *would* have paid if they didn't have access to a free copy. Your comic is a FAIL
What you don't understand is that your action deprives someone of the rental MONEY, not of their CAR. This is the basic thing you -just-don't-understand. You are stealing MONEY not a car. In the end, you are stealing MONEY, not a movie. If you take a dollar bill, you're taking MONEY. Just because the fed can make another bill doesn't mean you aren't stealing money.
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For those holding such a strong position of "anti-piracy", as you see it, have you pushed you viewpoints and morals to the lawmakers or promoted legislation?
Or is pushing your morals and judging others your contribution to bring some sort of awareness to this issue.
Perhaps most seem to forget that even even 40 years ago you were able to copy 8 tracks, then the ability to copy cassette to cassette, vinyl to 8 track/cassette, VHS to VHS, VHS to disc, DVD to DVD, etc.
All which can be easily shared with friends via thumb drives, LAN, portable harddrives, etc.
All materials needed to execute such operations have been readily available to consumers.
I remember making well over 20 copies of pink Floyd dark side of the moon when I was in HS.
The Internet is just a new medium.
yet Hollywood has survived.
Or is pushing your morals and judging others your contribution to bring some sort of awareness to this issue.
Perhaps most seem to forget that even even 40 years ago you were able to copy 8 tracks, then the ability to copy cassette to cassette, vinyl to 8 track/cassette, VHS to VHS, VHS to disc, DVD to DVD, etc.
All which can be easily shared with friends via thumb drives, LAN, portable harddrives, etc.
All materials needed to execute such operations have been readily available to consumers.
I remember making well over 20 copies of pink Floyd dark side of the moon when I was in HS.
The Internet is just a new medium.
yet Hollywood has survived.