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Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,725
13,245
UK
Most if not all reviewers noted significant improvement. Again I have both in my house. Lol

Is the improvement like from 10 to 11? No. But 12PM is a refinement of everything that was wrong with 11 (which was a top notch phone in its own right). Bigger sensor and wider aperture allow from much better noise reduction without losing details especially when light gets low. That was my main complaint with 11…details are there with lots of noise. 12 PM fixed that. Portraits from the slightly longer lens are MUCH better. Don’t ask me why! It just is.
The S21 Ultra camera was a big improvement over the S20 ultra. It fixed a lot of the focusing issues. It is even an improvement over the note 20 ultra in terms of processing and colour production.

I would agree that low light photos are better on my 12 pro max than my 11 pro max. However I'm a smartphone enthusiast and see the benefits of minor year over year upgrades. The average user won't.
 

iHorseHead

macrumors 68000
Jan 1, 2021
1,594
2,003
This is a known behavior of batteries. Studies have shown that the discharge rate and voltage drop of lithium ion batteries at varying extreme low temperatures can be as low as about 50% to 60% at -20C. If you live in extreme cold weather climate you may want to size up your battery capacity to compensate for spontaneous shutdown. iPhones are designed in California where weather is more favorable vs in South Korea where it can get into -20C.
But that's what I've been trying to tell! Such things don't happen to Samsungs and nowadays everything is on phones. You wanna take a bus? The ticket is on your phone and you can't buy it from the bus etc… In my country it gets -30C in February and yes, this is something that's bothering me a lot about the iPhones and everybody else I know. iPhones also start shutting down in autumn when it's not even that cold.
 

fncd

Cancelled
Oct 21, 2020
203
220
You’re right. harsh words by me. It just sucks when it comes to retaining value. POS-level suckness in that way.
If you're worried about the resale value of your phone, you should probably seek advice of a financial planner and get your money straight. It's a phone, not an investment. You want resale value? Invest in property, buy art, get into the stock market.

Buy your phone because it works for what you need. Simple.
 

Madtiger27

Suspended
Nov 17, 2020
757
613
If you're worried about the resale value of your phone, you should probably seek advice of a financial planner and get your money straight. It's a phone, not an investment. You want resale value? Invest in property, buy art, get into the stock market.

Buy your phone because it works for what you need. Simple.
For example recently my son needed a bigger phone. Well maybe not need but want. He traded his iPhone SE 2020 (MSRP $400) in for iPhone 12. Verizon gave him $440 trade in value as a promotion.

Name me another $400 phone on Android that Verizon cared to give that much value to. Pixel? Nope. Not on list. Oneplus? Nope. Samsung FE? Nope.

Think about that for a moment. Verizon paid for a used phone more than what it was worth brand new. Sure it was part of a promotion. But damn! It was a no brainier for my son to make that deal. I think even a financial advisor would make that deal! Lol
 
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Steve Adams

Suspended
Dec 16, 2020
954
684
For example recently my son needed a bigger phone. Well maybe not need but want. He traded his iPhone SE 2020 (MSRP $400) in for iPhone 12. Verizon gave him $440 trade in value as a promotion.

Name me another $400 phone on Android that Verizon cared to give that much value to. Pixel? Nope. Not on list. Oneplus? Nope. Samsung FE? Nope.

Think about that for a moment. Verizon paid for a used phone more than what it was worth brand new. Sure it was part of a promotion. But damn! It was a no brainier for my son to make that deal.
You missed the point. You don't buy a phone for resale. If this is a priority, maybe a 100 dollar android phone would be better suited to you. Last year I traded my blackberry 9900 bold in at telus and got 250 dollars for it. You are correct, it was a promotion. But that's not how much you would SELL a bold, or a se2020 for. You just got lucky as did I.
 

Madtiger27

Suspended
Nov 17, 2020
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You missed the point. You don't buy a phone for resale. If this is a priority, maybe a 100 dollar android phone would be better suited to you. Last year I traded my blackberry 9900 bold in at telus and got 250 dollars for it. You are correct, it was a promotion. But that's not how much you would SELL a bold, or a se2020 for. You just got lucky as did I.
Does it matter? Verizon did not give Pixel 4a that value? Not 1+. Not FE.

Look at pretty much any promotion from any carrier. Older iPhones get as much value as newly released android.

And this bears out if you look on eBay.

Where do you think these trade in phones go after carriers take them back? All goes to the 3rd party resellers.
 
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TSE

macrumors 601
Jun 25, 2007
4,032
3,548
St. Paul, Minnesota
I am not a huge fan of Android software and haven't picked up and used one in awhile, but if I had to get an Android phone, I would most likely go with a Sony. Sony nails hardware, and they almost always make quality products.
 

Steve Adams

Suspended
Dec 16, 2020
954
684
I love sony hardware as well. I just wish Microsoft would let all android devices run all features on Your Phone. It would open up alot of new devices to my use. I have to stick to samsung to get my full functionality.
 

Awesomesince86

macrumors 68020
Sep 18, 2016
2,482
3,302
I am not a huge fan of Android software and haven't picked up and used one in awhile, but if I had to get an Android phone, I would most likely go with a Sony. Sony nails hardware, and they almost always make quality products.

Boy would you be in for a disappointment.
 
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Madtiger27

Suspended
Nov 17, 2020
757
613
I am not a huge fan of Android software and haven't picked up and used one in awhile, but if I had to get an Android phone, I would most likely go with a Sony. Sony nails hardware, and they almost always make quality products.
Sony software sucks. Their camera quality is worthless…even tho hardware is great. Software updates are far in between.
 
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fncd

Cancelled
Oct 21, 2020
203
220
For example recently my son needed a bigger phone. Well maybe not need but want. He traded his iPhone SE 2020 (MSRP $400) in for iPhone 12. Verizon gave him $440 trade in value as a promotion.

Name me another $400 phone on Android that Verizon cared to give that much value to. Pixel? Nope. Not on list. Oneplus? Nope. Samsung FE? Nope.

Think about that for a moment. Verizon paid for a used phone more than what it was worth brand new. Sure it was part of a promotion. But damn! It was a no brainier for my son to make that deal. I think even a financial advisor would make that deal! Lol
Yes, verizon made a choice to take a tiny hit on the price of an iPhone to lock you into another iPhone on their service. Likely on their "5G" service that you can't get. Verizon is going to recoup that tiny hit three times over in the first 6 months. Sure they make it look pretty to you, but in the end, they are still making money. They are making an investment in you. Nearly every company does it.

Samsung will offer trade-in values of nearly 700.00 (and drop the prices of the new device itself some 200.00) for both the iPhone and current gen Galaxy devices when they release new ones.

If you want to talk about Apple resale value, go ask anyone that has owned a 2016-2019 MacBook Pro how they are doing. . . . and the answer is "not well".
 
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Madtiger27

Suspended
Nov 17, 2020
757
613
Yes, verizon made a choice to take a tiny hit on the price of an iPhone to lock you into another iPhone on their service. Likely on their "5G" service that you can't get. Verizon is going to recoup that tiny hit three times over in the first 6 months. Sure they make it look pretty to you, but in the end, they are still making money. They are making an investment in you. Nearly every company does it.

Samsung will offer trade-in values of nearly 700.00 (and drop the prices of the new device itself some 200.00) for both the iPhone and current gen Galaxy devices when they release new ones.

If you want to talk about Apple resale value, go ask anyone that has owned a 2016-2019 MacBook Pro how they are doing. . . . and the answer is "not well".
Of course…not reason not to expect Verizon to make money.

Again, why did they not offer same deal for Pixel 3a? 4a? Etc.

We are now talking about Macs? LOL
 

fncd

Cancelled
Oct 21, 2020
203
220
Of course…not reason not to expect Verizon to make money.

Again, why did they not offer same deal for Pixel 3a? 4a? Etc.

We are now talking about Macs? LOL
Ever think that maybe, just maybe, Verizon gets a kickback from Apple when they push new phones out the door?

Edit: And my reason for bringing up the MacBook Pro is simple. Their resale value sucks (and according to you) that's all that matters with a purchase.
 
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Madtiger27

Suspended
Nov 17, 2020
757
613
This is the problem with Android. Sure…you guys have LOTS AND LOTS OF CHOICES. BUT, none of them can give you a complete package.

Pixel…wonderful updates of decent duration (3 yrs). Camera great. Video suck donkey balls. Pitiful hardware (camera sensor from 2016?). Poor resale value.

Samsung…wonderful updates (just recently) of decent duration (3 yrs). Closest thing to an iPhone overall. Camera good (but it takes a Samsung fan to love Samsung output; Pixel still wins because it is simply more consistent in picture quality). Video good. Great hardware. Poor resale value.

Huawei…no Android. DOA. Camera great, but inconsistent. Video OK…probably verge on poor. Great hardware. Resale value questionable…probably good in China…but poor elsewhere.

1+…OK updates (fast, but older devices are left in dust). Camera OK. Video OK. Decent hardware. Poor resale.

Sony…poor updates. Camera hardware top notch. Camera software piss poor. Video good. Weird hardware choices but good. Poor resale value.



Now, iPhones…if you can accept iOS…perfect updates for SEVEN PLUS years. Camera great…class-leading. Video great….class-leading. Great hardware. Great resale value.

Feel free to critique what i wrote.
 

Madtiger27

Suspended
Nov 17, 2020
757
613
How soon you forget that Apple has plenty of things that fall into the "other" category that they don't break out details on.
Other is regarding hardware. :)

And if Apple is reimbursing Verizon/ATT/Sprint/Tmo for every iPhone trade-in…can you imagine what the budget is?!!!
 
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fncd

Cancelled
Oct 21, 2020
203
220
Other is regarding hardware. :)

And if Apple is reimbursing Verizon/ATT/Sprint/Tmo…can you imagine what the budget is?!!!
Do you actually believe that carrier's are paying full retail price for the iPhone that they then sell you for the same price? What? Out of the goodness of their hearts? No. They are most certainly not. So if apple gives them a deal on, say, the iPhone 12, then they can afford to give you more money when you trade in towards another iPhone. "Get 500.00 for your iPhone when you buy a new iPhone 12 on our 5G plan". . . every single carrier has something like that.

Less people have the Pixel 2, 3, 4a, etc, so that phone has less value to verizon, where it will get refurbished (by their third party) and sit on a shelf as opposed to the iPhone SE that will get refurbished then sent to someone else who makes a warranty claim on the one that they just broke.

Right now, the trade-in for an iPhone 12 and Galaxy S21 are the same on T-Mobile. Guess which one would have cost less in the beginning? The Galaxy.
 

Madtiger27

Suspended
Nov 17, 2020
757
613
Do you actually believe that carrier's are paying full retail price for the iPhone that they then sell you for the same price? What? Out of the goodness of their hearts? No. They are most certainly not. So if apple gives them a deal on, say, the iPhone 12, then they can afford to give you more money when you trade in towards another iPhone.

Less people have the Pixel 2, 3, 4a, etc, so that phone has less value to verizon, where it will get refurbished (by their third party) and sit on a shelf as opposed to the iPhone SE that will get refurbished then sent to someone else who makes a warranty claim on the one that they just broke.

Right now, the trade-in for an iPhone 12 and Galaxy S21 are the same on T-Mobile. Guess which one would have cost less in the beginning? The Galaxy.
Huh? I am sure that they pay Apple/Samsung/etc. a certain value Of the NEW phone. You miss my point. Carriers make money on that AND mostly payments for cell service.

But resale value / trade-in value is what we’re talking about.

Why are you looking at iPhone 12 and S21? Why not compare trade in value of OLD phones? Isn’t that what we’re talking about? LOL. Geez…changing goal posts a lot!
 
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