Bye, Bye for now Apple, it has been fun!

[jakey rolling]

I can see how it would for someone who lacks experience. I've been working professionally from a computer since 2003. With a Mac and a PC by my side the entire time. My opinion is not subjective. It is as fair and accurate an objective observation as one can get.

I mean, if you want to turn this into a "career" measuring contest, I was already six years into working as a technology consultant in 2003, with the latter three years up to then being in an Apple specialist role. I've been working in the enterprise systems implementation world since 2006. I have owned Macs since 1997 and PCs since 1991 and have used both since the late 1980s.

You can feel free to brush off people who you disagree with as "inexperienced" all you want. Trust me, there are plenty of people out there with more experience whose "objective" opinions are far different than yours.

 

[JustinePaula]

I have a 2013 macbook pro, 8GB RAm, 256GB SSD, and it is my daily driver, bought it late 2013, I have 3 versions of MacOS on it, Mavericks: for Final Cut Studio 3, High Sierra as my daily driver and Big Sur for Final Cut Pro X, and I have a 2020 Macbook Air, a total downgrade...

The 2013 Macbook Pro has lasted over 12 years, and still works, it has a few faults, virtually no battery, the screen has a couple of green lines, but it works for me, 12 years, that is a long time, I also had an ipad mini 2, bought in August 2013, that is long gone to the land of dead ipads, iOS 935, and then ran out of OS support...

My Macbook Pro from 2013 still works, does the job, a pity that iOS could not keep up the same longevity as the laptop is a pity...So to give a estimated lifespan of the M1, 8 more years, 4 down already..

 

[turbineseaplane]

Mavericks

Ahh... I really miss the Dock from that era

I've heard I could get that back with cDock -- haven't tried it yet as I'm a "dock on the side" person these days, but ... I might try it just for the fun

(...just look at those gorgeous lush icons -- beautiful!!)

 

[bikepunk]

This is all so interesting. Currently I have a base M1 Mac Mini and a 2011 MacBook Air 11” and I actually prefer the old Air since it is stuck at macOS 10.13 (High Sierra). Even though the old Air only has 2gb of memory and a slow Intel processor, the UI is in many ways snappier than the M1 running Sonoma; it’s definitely cleaner as well. I’ve been doing this stuff a long time (since the 1980s) and I am increasingly finding myself drawn back to my roots of BSD Unix machines. I doubt I will ever buy another Mac, but will just move to Ubuntu or FreeBSD when I need new hardware and say so long to macOS. Apple is stuck probably forever now trying to maximize revenue and monetize everything in sight to prop up their stock price while their market begins to shrink, so I don’t think things will ever improve, unfortunately.

 

[jakey rolling]

One great thing about Apple devices is longevity - I guarantee my M1 Pro MacBook Pro will still be amazing in a few years while you're shopping to replace those laptops you just bought.

With the Mx processors and the inability to replace a failed battery or SSD, that longevity advantage is quickly evaporating. You have consumable parts on your computer that are not user replaceable, and you have Apple who is restricting the install of newer OS's onto those machines (of course, Microsoft are now doing the same ****, with its TPM requirements for Windows 11).

Conversely, I had a 2013 Dell Precision laptop (M3800 model) that I passed on to one of my son's friends. He is still using it. Only upgrade that had to be made to that laptop was a new battery (aftermarket replacement was less than $100 CAD). It runs Windows 10 quite well. That machine was my absolute favourite laptop of all time.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I actually prefer the old Air since it is stuck at macOS 10.13 (High Sierra)

Sounds like a great place to be "stuck"

 

[TheDauterive]

I can see how it would for someone who lacks experience. I've been working professionally from a computer since 2003. With a Mac and a PC by my side the entire time. My opinion is not subjective. It is as fair and accurate an objective observation as one can get.

I've not used Windows in any real sense outside of work since I switched to Apple in 2006, so I won't pretend like I have a comprehensive knowledge of both platforms anymore, but I can say that even if macOS is better than Windows (and I'm sure that it is) there is still plenty to complain about in macOS and hence reason for people to be dissatisfied enough to seek alternatives.

There are some things I used to do in Windows like create parity files (PAR and PAR2) for important media that I simply cannot do on a Mac. In the past I was able to do this using MacPAR deLuxe, but that hasn't been updated since 2013 and hasn't worked in new versions of macOS for a long, long time. (And even when it was a viable tool, it paled in comparison to its Windows alternatives.) There is also powerful functionality in essential apps like VLC that simply doesn't exist in the Mac version of the app. For countless other application categories, e.g. usenet readers, there are plenty of options for Windows, while Mac users have one or two...or zero...choices. Granted, if you never need any tools beyond what's included in the macOS box, you'll probably never notice these shortcomings. But for those of us who know what is available outside that box, it can be really frustrating.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I can see how it would for someone who lacks experience. I've been working professionally from a computer since 2003. With a Mac and a PC by my side the entire time. My opinion is not subjective. It is as fair and accurate an objective observation as one can get.

The good news is I outrank you evidently. I have worked professionally since 1997. I have run Windows NT Servers, Win 2k servers, redhat servers (sendmail, apache, etc.,), FreeBSD servers, Oracle/Solaris Servers, and that was before I even got into dev work instead. I have used everything from an Apple IIe in elementary school to an iBook, to several Macbook Airs and Pros. I have built several Hackintoshes and custom built PCs. I have had SO MANY windows machines, ExoPC, Surface Pro 2, Surface Pro 3, Surface Pro 2017, Surface Pro 7, Surface Pro 9. I have had the iPad 2, and so many different iPad Pro 12.9".

My opinion is subjective and I say Windows is currently better. And since I have 4 years more experience, I guess I win according to your standard? (Oh and your opinion is definitely subjective...which is my point with all this. It works for YOU.

 

[Ctrlos]

It's real-world software design. Companies have to balance priorities, and being slow at moving features that work perfectly well in the Control Panel to make them pretty in the Settings app is something I would consider pretty low priority. I'd much rather Microsoft continue working on improving other functional aspects of the OS rather than making it look slightly more pretty when I want to uninstall a program.

I mean there’s nothing wrong with having two control panels. It just represents a lack of quality control at the top level. I remember boards like this (quite rightly) knocking very minor things like Samsung’s off-centre Micro USB ports.

iOS is full of these forgotten branches that should have been tidied up years ago but have just slipped through the cracks. They should have redesigned the notifications and control centre years ago to be useable with one hand yet the patch job of ‘reachability’ remains.

I care about these things because at the end of the day a computer or phone is just a shell for the OS which is what the customer is really buying into.

 

[lysingur]

Mac are so overpriced at MSRP that it negates a ton of the "resale value" argument right out of the gate.

Base model M's just languish on the preowned market .. BTO ones sell, but the original buyer got absolutely GOUGED to buy them to begin with..

And on trade in pricing ... LMFAO -- Apple treats BTO upgrades as though they never happened
To me I just see extortion up and down the Apple "ladder" these days.

Better resale value is much less appealing when you got totally ripped off on the buy side

I've always maintained that you make your great deal on the buy side (on most all products really)

To me the smart Apple money is on buying lightly preowned (sort of like cars) and let the original buyer have their shorts ripped off instead

You should buy everything certified preowned/refurbished, tbh. This is the secret to saving a ton of money while getting almost equivalent value that most people don't know about or are too scared to try. There is nothing special about something that spanking new, except that dopamine hit in your noggin.

 

[lysingur]

Ahh... I really miss the Dock from that era

I've heard I could get that back with cDock -- haven't tried it yet as I'm a "dock on the side" person these days, but ... I might try it just for the fun

(...just look at those gorgeous lush icons -- beautiful!!)

Don't turn off SIP for cosmetic reasons. You'll sorely regret it.

 

[TruthAboveAllElse]

I didn't know how to breach this subject

You mean broach, not breach.

 

[lysingur]

The good news is I outrank you evidently. I have worked professionally since 1997. I have run Windows NT Servers, Win 2k servers, redhat servers (sendmail, apache, etc.,), FreeBSD servers, Oracle/Solaris Servers, and that was before I even got into dev work instead. I have used everything from an Apple IIe in elementary school to an iBook, to several Macbook Airs and Pros. I have built several Hackintoshes and custom built PCs. I have had SO MANY windows machines, ExoPC, Surface Pro 2, Surface Pro 3, Surface Pro 2017, Surface Pro 7, Surface Pro 9. I have had the iPad 2, and so many different iPad Pro 12.9".

My opinion is subjective and I say Windows is currently better. And since I have 4 years more experience, I guess I win according to your standard? (Oh and your opinion is definitely subjective...which is my point with all this. It works for YOU.

Based on the trajectory since Windows 10 was first introduced, Windows 12 is going to surpass macOS in its overall feel and performance. In terms of UI, macOS still looks better and cleaner, but File Explorer is already being tweaked and revamped in Windows 11. Scary to think the day might come when Windows feels more intuitive to use than macOS.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Don't turn off SIP for cosmetic reasons. You'll sorely regret it.

Can you give me an example of something to be worried about?
We had a long history of "no SIP even being a thing", with no issues, so I'm curious

(like to weigh the options and learn a bit here... thx)

 

[turbineseaplane]

News...
I just bought a MINT (and I do mean MINT) condition 2015 15" MBP for $180

Thing looks absolutely brand new in all ways and it's the coveted (at least by me) 2.2 non dGPU version ... that has less heat or longevity concerns around the dGPU and also no issues with GPU switching (which I've noticed has been causing some odd bugs in newer macOS versions -- but I'm on Monterey of course anyhow, but still)

 

[AlastorKatriona]

The good news is I outrank you evidently. I have worked professionally since 1997. I have run Windows NT Servers, Win 2k servers, redhat servers (sendmail, apache, etc.,), FreeBSD servers, Oracle/Solaris Servers, and that was before I even got into dev work instead. I have used everything from an Apple IIe in elementary school to an iBook, to several Macbook Airs and Pros. I have built several Hackintoshes and custom built PCs. I have had SO MANY windows machines, ExoPC, Surface Pro 2, Surface Pro 3, Surface Pro 2017, Surface Pro 7, Surface Pro 9. I have had the iPad 2, and so many different iPad Pro 12.9".

My opinion is subjective and I say Windows is currently better. And since I have 4 years more experience, I guess I win according to your standard? (Oh and your opinion is definitely subjective...which is my point with all this. It works for YOU.

You're wrong. It's really just that simple.

 

[jakey rolling]

You're wrong. It's really just that simple.

K.

 

[turbineseaplane]

News...
I just bought a MINT (and I do mean MINT) condition 2015 15" MBP for $180

Thing looks absolutely brand new in all ways and it's the coveted (at least by me) 2.2 non dGPU version ... that has less heat or longevity concerns around the dGPU and also no issues with GPU switching (which I've noticed has been causing some odd bugs in newer macOS versions -- but I'm on Monterey of course anyhow, but still)

You guys, this 2015 15" has 5 cycles on it
The screws on the bottom were "virgin" (never opened and still had glue resistance)

It came restored to Yosemite

Good - GOD
Yosemite is LIGHTNING fast
Everything happens instantly -- Windows and Apps open seemingly "as I click on them"

(this is the standard Apple SSD in there still too -- not yet my NVMe as I have to update the OS to get a Boot ROM update)

Holy smokes how far we have fallen to the bloated pig Sonoma is..

In---credible

 

[dmr727]

^^^ $180! That's a fantastic deal. Enjoy!

 

[Frankied22]

You guys, this 2015 15" has 5 cycles on it
The screws on the bottom were "virgin" (never opened and still had glue resistance)

It came restored to Yosemite

Good - GOD
Yosemite is LIGHTNING fast
Everything happens instantly -- Windows and Apps open seemingly "as I click on them"

(this is the standard Apple SSD in there still too -- not yet my NVMe as I have to update the OS to get a Boot ROM update)

Holy smokes how far we have fallen to the bloated pig Sonoma is..

In---credible

Sounds like how it feels using windows 11 right now lol

 

[LeeW]

I just switched over to Windows from my M2, 16GB MM. Now I have an i7, 32GB RAM, RTX3080, and so on in my PC, but I always feel the difference in that Windows just does everything faster. Faster that it's noticeable? Yes. Faster than macOS is too slow? No. It's just noticeable.

 

[bikepunk]

Holy smokes how far we have fallen to the bloated pig Sonoma is..

Yup. It's all too sad. The original NeXT stuff in Obj-C was great, the new Swift stuff is awful.

 

[StellarVixen]

I agree with some points that OP has mentioned, the only thing keeping me on Mac is that I more hate what Windows has become than what Mac OS has become.

For example, Finder, for all its shortcomings is much less of a dumpster fire than Explorer in Windows 11 is.

 

[Technerd108]

I just have to add..

This thread is probably my favorite on MacRumors in a long long time

Thank you @Technerd108 for starting this!
It's cathartic to find some like minded long timers!

I have a nack for stirring up trouble even when I don't mean too.

I appreciate your words.

 

[Technerd108]

Ahh... I really miss the Dock from that era

I've heard I could get that back with cDock -- haven't tried it yet as I'm a "dock on the side" person these days, but ... I might try it just for the fun

(...just look at those gorgeous lush icons -- beautiful!!)

I miss the aqua interface. Now everything is flat.

Back in the day, compared to XP aqua was a jewel. It was the best looking interface I have ever used.