California's Exposure Notification System Rolling Out on iPhone Thursday

[redbeard331]

It’s incredible how people can be so tech illiterate on a tech website.

All the conspiracy kooks probably have 3-4 dozen apps on their cell phones right now that know more about them then they do. They are being tracked 24/7 and that data is out their for anyone to purchase, yet they are afraid of a contact tracing api that does NOT track anyone and could save lives.

And for the people calling California “communist”, please go back to grade school because you clearly failed at learning anything, how embarrassing.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Did you read the article? For iPhone there are no apps. It’s android that require an app.

“Californians with an iPhone can go to the Settings app, tap on Exposure Notifications, select the United States, and then choose California to opt in with no need to download an accompanying app. On Android, users need to download an app that's launching on December 10.”

I did read the article. What did I say that was wrong? Yes, the Android app isn't technically out yet for everyone to use.

 

[QCassidy352]

With 15M cases, it’s likely over 150M people have already been positive, perhaps more.

gonna need a citation on that.

I am surprised anyone would be willing to trust that this is a good idea and honestly, at this point, we are at a point of a vaccine being ready, so why bother even if you do trust them?

The vaccine will take many months to fully roll out to all who want it.

A spying app that harms only the user and benefits no one... who are the morons installing this again? Oh right the same people who love their placebo masks

It’s not an app... it doesn’t spy on you... and masks aren’t placebos. But other than that, you nailed it.

 

[CarlJ]

I am surprised anyone would be willing to trust that this is a good idea and honestly, at this point, we are at a point of a vaccine being ready, so why bother even if you do trust them?

Education is important, you can learn facts, and then make decisions based on reality instead of fear and superstition - go read the spec. Educate yourself. It’s basically impossible to misuse this system for bad purposes.

And the “well, but a vaccine is ready” line of reasoning is laughable. It’s going to be many, many, months before enough people get vaccinated for it to make a difference. Spring or summer for most people. Only front-line healthcare workers and at-risk people before that.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I am surprised anyone would be willing to trust that this is a good idea and honestly, at this point, we are at a point of a vaccine being ready, so why bother even if you do trust them?

Since you asked. The reason why I'm interested in this is because if I can know if there's a chance that I have the virus, I will take even greater steps than I do now to reduce my ability to transfer this on to someone else.

I have an 81 year old living with me so I have to be more careful than most. The idea that I could inadvertently kill a family member has me a bit more sensitive to these things.

Same reason why I wear a mask when I'm out and about. I don't want to kill anyone and I don't want to bring something home to my family.

A fair number of people in the USA have health problems - so while the death rate of this virus does affect older people, it also hits those with health issues as well.

 

[Baymowe335]

gonna need a citation on that.


The vaccine will take many months to fully roll out to all who want it.

It’s not an app... it doesn’t spy on you... and masks aren’t placebos. But other than that, you nailed it.

It’s just logic. Call it whatever multiplier you want, buts FAR higher than “confirmed” cases.

 

[Baymowe335]

Education is important, you can learn facts, and then make decisions based on reality instead of fear and superstition - go read the spec. Educate yourself. It’s basically impossible to misuse this system for bad purposes.

And the “well, but a vaccine is ready” line of reasoning is laughable. It’s going to be many, many, months before enough people get vaccinated for it to make a difference. Spring or summer for most people. Only front-line healthcare workers and at-risk people before that.

We all knew a vaccine wouldn’t end this for doomsayers. A vaccine is still an absolute game changer and gives tremendous optimism for the near future. Markets have agreed. The worst is over.

The speed has been incredible and I’m proud of the scientists and the companies that cracked this so quickly.

BTW, vaccinating “at risk” people pretty much ends this bc no one else is impacted. For the vast majority of people, this is about as dangerous as any other respiratory virus. OMG, yes there are others!

 

[mike...]

Given how poorly the UK's track and trace app is working, you may want to retract this statement.

No they don't because the app works perfectly. It isn't a "track and trace" app anyway. It's the track and trace system (not the app) that's broken.

You act like getting infected leads to a death sentence for me and everyone around me (and yes I do care about others’ well being).

You act like you have control over whether you come in to contact with vulnerable people or start a chain of transmission that ends with the death of a person. You don't.

 

[Rigby]

We all knew a vaccine wouldn’t end this for doomsayers. A vaccine is still an absolute game changer and gives tremendous optimism for the near future. Markets have agreed. The worst is over.

You are literally dead wrong. Yesterday we set a new record with ~2,900 confirmed Covid deaths in a single day, and that does not include the deaths that will result from the Thanksgiving surge in new cases. January will be very bad. It will take at least until summer before the vaccine has been given to enough people to make a difference. Until then, taking precautions and supporting health officials with things like this contact notification system is more important than ever.

 

[cmaier]

Ohhh, ok. Then that's totally fine. Because governments have definitely been altruistic during all of this and not used the pandemic to extend more and more authority over the most basic decisions people can make in life, much less decisions about employment. What could go wrong with now installing an app directly feeding them data about your movements.

The government is on my side, and you can trust them.

There is no app to install.

But keep reaching.

 

[QCassidy352]

It’s just logic. Call it whatever multiplier you want, buts FAR higher than “confirmed” cases.

Oh, ok, so you're making things up to fit your agenda.

 

[joeblough]

interesting - i've had this enabled for a few weeks now. my kid goes to berkeley and because of that connection a while back i got an email saying the tracing was in beta for berkeley (as the story indicates.)

i don't live in berkeley but maybe since i'm a couple of miles from berkeley it let me turn it on? or perhaps anyone in CA who tried to turn it on over the past few weeks would have succeeded.

 

[Baymowe335]

You are literally dead wrong. Yesterday we set a new record with ~2,900 confirmed Covid deaths in a single day, and that does not include the deaths that will result from the Thanksgiving surge in new cases. January will be very bad. It will take at least until summer before the vaccine has been given to enough people to make a difference. Until then, taking precautions and supporting health officials with things like this contact notification system is more important than ever.

More people are going to die...but even that's complicated. The worst being over for me means doomsday is off the table. Vaccine changes the game, even if we have more deaths.

Deaths are a controversial topic that you can't even have without people call you a Trumper or a conspiracy theorist, but here goes. Take the 2900 as an example. It's a scary number, great for headlines...but again, what does it mean? You have to look at every death and understand the story.

94% of deaths have an average of 2.6 other conditions present. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know why these people died like CNN, but I'm certainly not blaming it all on Covid-19, EVEN for people that are just obese and "would have" lived in another world without Covid. I don't know. I do know that bucketing all these deaths as a "Covid death" is totally insane and was not the methodology used for H1N1.

These patients have Pneumonia, Influenza, Cancer, heart disease, and a myriad of other conditions. Just the ones with Influenza (something like 100,000 of the "covid" deaths) need to be looked at skeptically when blaming Covid.

Again, I'm much more concerned about obesity than I am about Covid, which doesn't impact children or healthy adults.

 

[Rigby]

More people are going to die...but even that's complicated. The worst being over for me means doomsday is off the table. Vaccine changes the game, even if we have more deaths.

Deaths are a controversial topic that you can't even have without people call you a Trumper or a conspiracy theorist, but here goes. Take the 2900 as an example. It's a scary number, great for headlines...but again, what does it mean? You have to look at every death and understand the story.

94% of deaths have an average of 2.6 other conditions present. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know why these people died like CNN, but I'm certainly not blaming it all on Covid-19, EVEN for people that are just obese and "would have" lived in another world without Covid. I don't know. I do know that bucketing all these deaths as a "Covid death" is totally insane and was not the methodology used for H1N1.

This is not how it works. Deaths are only counted as Covid deaths if the medical examiner comes to the conclusion that it would not have occurred without Covid. A person having comorbidities (which, BTW, is roughly half the US population) does not mean the death was not caused by Covid. Those statistics are accurate, and that is also confirmed independently by other metrics such as the excess deaths.

 

[Baymowe335]

This is not how it works. Deaths are only counted as Covid deaths if the medical examiner comes to the conclusion that it would not have occurred without Covid. A person having comorbidities (which, BTW, is roughly half the US population) does not mean the death was not caused by Covid. Those statistics are accurate, and that is also confirmed independently by other metrics such as the excess deaths.

At minimum, they have an incentive to do this and I'd love to read a reliable source that the medical examiner has to conclude it would not have occurred without Covid.

The CDC actually says other "causes" making it not sound like Covid was the tipping factor.


cdc.gov

"For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups."

 

[RickInHouston]

Welcome to the early stages of socialism. Welcome to the upcoming world of Joe Biden, aka NWO. I for the life of me cannot ever imagine living in a craphole state like California to where their local and state government is on the verge of becoming a communist state just like Biden's buddies in China. But then again, this is what Democrats want.

Hell no.........

He gets it.

 

[QCassidy352]

I'm saying you made up a number to fit your narrative. We know that there is some undercounting, but 10x (or "perhaps more" as you said) is a number you pulled out of… well, let's just say thin air.

Deaths are a controversial topic that you can't even have without people call you a Trumper or a conspiracy theorist, but here goes. Take the 2900 as an example. It's a scary number, great for headlines...but again, what does it mean? You have to look at every death and understand the story.

94% of deaths have an average of 2.6 other conditions present. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know why these people died like CNN, but I'm certainly not blaming it all on Covid-19, EVEN for people that are just obese and "would have" lived in another world without Covid. I don't know. I do know that bucketing all these deaths as a "Covid death" is totally insane and was not the methodology used for H1N1.

Deaths are undercounted, not overcounted. Please take a look at the CDC's website and note how far above "expected deaths" we are this year.

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.

www.cdc.gov

Since covid hit, US deaths have been double digit percentages above the upper bound of "expected deaths." Every single week since March 28! Sometimes by 20, 30, even 40%!

People are always obese, but there's something different about this year that's pushing deaths WAY above expected levels and has been since March. Now what could that something be… hmm…

 

[SSDGUY]

While there is that aspect to that part of it, why would the public be basing things simply on what politicians are saying and whether or not they themselves might be doing or not doing something? It seems like that might be the begging underlying issue.

In this case, part of the job of these public officials is to rally their massive population of constituents to help with the public health crisis. When those constituents, who might be on the fence about taking these measures seriously (there are a lot), see this "do as I say, not as I do" behavior, they tend to ignore all current and future efforts to convince them to take precautions seriously. The effect of such carelessness upon an entire population can be pretty huge.

 

[Nicole1980]

Do you see how “X does not prevent 100% of Y therefore X does not help prevent Y” is a fallacy?

The headline of the campaign says "California can STOP the spread". That's pretty unequivocal.

Doesn't say "slow the spread", or "reduce the spread". That said, I would still argue that contact tracing,

a) does very little other than to give worry-warts something else to to worry about
and/or

b) give people who can't stand the idea that - viruses can hurt people - the illusion that they're doing something to 'stop' it.

 

[C DM]

In this case, part of the job of these public officials is to rally their massive population of constituents to help with the public health crisis. When those constituents who might be on the fence about taking these measures seriously (there are a lot) see such "do as I say, not as I do" behavior, they tend to ignore all current and future efforts to convince them to take precautions seriously. The effect of such carelessness upon an entire population can be pretty huge.

There's certainly that part to it all. And it certainly would be that much better if everyone did what they said and what they were supposed to do, especially those who are in more prominent positions. That said, that shouldn't affect whether or not people do the right things themselves, or even worse, use the examples of someone else doing something wrong as some sort of justifications for doing something similar or at least not doing what might need to be done. I think we all understand that that's just reality, but that is the unfortunate part, and one of the parts that keeps on hurting humanity overall throughout history.

 

[Rigby]

At minimum, they have an incentive to do this

This is a baseless claim by a grifter who thinks everybody else is like him. The CARES act provides a 20% bump for the treatment of Medicare beneficiaries with Covid. But that is based purely on the Covid diagnosis, irrespective of whether the patient dies or not. Unless you want to claim that doctors issue falsified Covid test results to line their pockets (which would be a crime), this claim has no merit. Not to mention that baselessly blaming hospital workers who risk their lives under often extremely difficult conditions is disgusting.

and I'd love to read a reliable source that the medical examiner has to conclude it would not have occurred without Covid.

The CDC actually says other "causes" making it not sound like Covid was the tipping factor.


cdc.gov

"For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups."

This does not mean that the death would have occured without Covid. For example, in many cases pneumonia is the immediate cause of death (in which case it would show as such on the death certificate), but Covid is the underlying cause for the pneumonia. See here how Covid reporting on death certificates works:

COVID-19 Coding and Reporting Guidance - National Vital Statistics System

In public health emergencies, mortality surveillance provides crucial information about population-level disease progression, as well as guides the development of public health interventions and assessment of their impact. Monitoring and analysis of mortality data allow dissemination of critical...

www.cdc.gov

Why does everyone think they know better than the experts?

 

[C DM]

The headline of the campaign says "California can STOP the spread". That's pretty unequivocal.

So if it doesn't actually end up reaching that ultimate goal, but gets things closer by slowing the spread it's somehow no longer meaningful?

 

[Nicole1980]

More people are going to die...but even that's complicated. The worst being over for me means doomsday is off the table. Vaccine changes the game, even if we have more deaths.

Deaths are a controversial topic that you can't even have without people call you a Trumper or a conspiracy theorist, but here goes. Take the 2900 as an example. It's a scary number, great for headlines...but again, what does it mean? You have to look at every death and understand the story.

94% of deaths have an average of 2.6 other conditions present. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know why these people died like CNN, but I'm certainly not blaming it all on Covid-19, EVEN for people that are just obese and "would have" lived in another world without Covid. I don't know. I do know that bucketing all these deaths as a "Covid death" is totally insane and was not the methodology used for H1N1.

These patients have Pneumonia, Influenza, Cancer, heart disease, and a myriad of other conditions. Just the ones with Influenza (something like 100,000 of the "covid" deaths) need to be looked at skeptically when blaming Covid.

Again, I'm much more concerned about obesity than I am about Covid, which doesn't impact children or healthy adults.

Yep. Well said.

 

[Baymowe335]

This is a baseless claim by a grifter who thinks everybody else is like him. The CARES act provides a 20% bump for the treatment of Medicare beneficiaries with Covid. But that is based purely on the Covid diagnosis, irrespective of whether the patient dies or not. Unless you want to claim that doctors issue falsified Covid test results to line their pockets (which would be a crime), this claim has no merit. Not to mention that baselessly blaming hospital workers who risk their lives under often extremely difficult conditions is disgusting.


This does not mean that the death would have occured without Covid. For example, in many cases pneumonia is the immediate cause of death (in which case it would show as such on the death certificate), but Covid is the underlying cause for the pneumonia. See here how Covid reporting on death certificates works:

COVID-19 Coding and Reporting Guidance - National Vital Statistics System

In public health emergencies, mortality surveillance provides crucial information about population-level disease progression, as well as guides the development of public health interventions and assessment of their impact. Monitoring and analysis of mortality data allow dissemination of critical...

www.cdc.gov

Why does everyone think they know better than the experts?

Let’s do a thought experiment.

100,000 ppl had influenza and pneumonia along with covid at time of death. Based on the stats, let’s say 60% are over 80.

You’re saying all 60,000 80+ year old patients survive the flu and pneumonia without the Covid?

I don’t think I know better than the experts, but I don’t think the experts know anything about Covid if they say these people over 80 would have been alive and kickin if only for the covid.

 

[Nicole1980]

So if it doesn't actually end up reaching that ultimate goal, but gets things closer by slowing the spread it's somehow no longer meaningful?

Well, when the headline of the campaign spreads that kind of disinformation, I think they need to be called out on it.

The fear mongers keep talking about the few thousand who died with covid being a contributing factor, but the most common story of a covid infection, that's it's a little worse than the common cold for most people - is NEVER talked about amongst the fear mongers. They all act as if covid is a guaranteed death sentence.

It's this kind of exaggeration of this pandemic that frankly, pisses me off, and pisses a LOT of people.