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Let’s do a thought experiment.

100,000 ppl had influenza and pneumonia along with covid at time of death. Based on the stats, let’s say 60% are over 80.

You’re saying all 60,000 80+ year old patients survive the flu and pneumonia without the Covid?
The death certificate would only list Covid as the underlying cause of death if the examiner determines that it caused the pneumonia. So no, your contrieved example makes no sense. Read the reporting guide on the page I linked for you.
I don’t think I know better than the experts, but I don’t think the experts know anything about Covid if they say these people over 80 would have been alive and kickin if only for the covid.
So you don't know better, but you do know better. :rolleyes:
 
You're blaming the wrong entity. It's up to each state/nation to develop protocols and eventually code to utilize tracking. Apple provides APIs, the state/nation does the rest.
It's unfortunately the case for you in the US it seems, when you have people in power at the top who just want to play golf and do stuff all at doing what they can in their final days for the greater good.
 
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But it doesn't track you in any way. No location, nothing. Just randomized Bluetooth device ID that changes every 15 minutes and is stored only for 2 weeks. This information is not transmitted to the local government at all.

Only when you log a positive test case, which requires manual entry (and is verified against local government's verification server) their Bluetooth IDs are shared with those that came in contact (via key server).

If you are never tested positive or never logs a result (I sure hope not), you are not being tracked in anyway.
You're not understanding how many of us 100% distrust anything the government or big tech says. And when they're working together, then we really don't trust them.
 
Let’s do a thought experiment.

100,000 ppl had influenza and pneumonia along with covid at time of death. Based on the stats, let’s say 60% are over 80.

You’re saying all 60,000 80+ year old patients survive the flu and pneumonia without the Covid?

I don’t think I know better than the experts, but I don’t think the experts know anything about Covid if they say these people over 80 would have been alive and kickin if only for the covid.

Well, when the headline of the campaign spreads that kind of disinformation, I think they need to be called out on it.

The fear mongers keep talking about the few thousand who died with covid being a contributing factor, but the most common story of a covid infection, that's it's a little worse than the common cold for most people - is NEVER talked about amongst the fear mongers. They all act as if covid is a guaranteed death sentence.

It's this kind of exaggeration of this pandemic that frankly, pisses me off, and pisses a LOT of people.
It’s frustrating that you both are so invested in your preferred narrative that you’re ignoring data that’s readily available. Again, please look at the CDC data I posted earlier about deaths above expected. If you think covid is not a big deal or death numbers are being artificially inflated then please give me the alternative explanation for why every week since March 2020 has such absurdly high deaths above expected.
 
The death certificate would only list Covid as the underlying cause of death if the examiner determines that it caused the pneumonia. So no, your contrieved example makes no sense. Read the reporting guide on the page I linked for you.

So you don't know better, but you do know better. :rolleyes:
I’ve read it. That’s not what it says. All causes of death are listed so you can’t just blame covid.

Importantly, it says “A” cause of death, not “THE” cause.

Higher level, this is still a disease that is far more dangerous for our seniors who need to be protected. The rest of us are fine.
 
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They've been doing contact tracing since the beginning of this thing and the virus has still spread. Guess what, it's a virus, you aren't going to stop it by finding out that a couple people you may have bumped into a week ago had it.

Thank good a vaccine is around the corner and all the people who have been living in fear and covering in their homes for the past 10 months might finally give it a rest and actually walk outside and start living their lives again.
Do some research on what measures and lockdown were implemented in Melbourne, Australia, including contract tracing (not just state by state, but across the country) and read that in Melbourne we're now 37 days without any infections. Then look at what you wrote.
 
What a stupid accusation.

Apple and Google started working in the API in April and released it one month later. For two tech giants to work together on a single API is insanely challenging.

And this California app was not developed by Apple. Read the damn article “The ‌Exposure Notification‌ system for California was developed by UC San Diego Health”
Sorry, but I don’t think Apple is off the hook here, either.

Sure, California should have had this ready to go (or at least test) the moment Apple released it in September.

But Apple waited too long; September was far too late (over 6 months)! By then, the momentum on contact tracing had predictably waned to the practically nonexistent interest we’re seeing now. It wasn’t like this in the beginning.

If Apple/Google had released this feature in April (and they absolutely could have—they have the resources) then adoption would be far higher.

It’s a cataclysmic failure of urgency and leadership from all parties involved. God knows there’s enough blame to go around.
 
It’s frustrating that you both are so invested in your preferred narrative that you’re ignoring data that’s readily available. Again, please look at the CDC data I posted earlier about deaths above expected. If you think covid is not a big deal or death numbers are being artificially inflated then please give me the alternative explanation for why every week since March 2020 has such absurdly high deaths above expected.
Show me where the 94% of deaths having 2.6 other conditions listed confirms covid is THE underlying cause and without it, those folks survive. Particularly the 60% of deaths that have nearly reached or lived beyond the average life expectancy.
 
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Sorry, but I don’t think Apple is off the hook here, either.

Sure, California should have had this ready to go (or at least test) the moment Apple released it in September.

But Apple waited too long; September was far too late (over 6 months)! By then, the momentum on contact tracing had predictably waned to the practically nonexistent interest we’re seeing now. It wasn’t like this in the beginning.

If Apple/Google had released this feature in April (and they absolutely could have—they have the resources) then adoption would be far higher.

It’s a cataclysmic failure of urgency and leadership from all parties involved. God knows there’s enough blame to go around.

Exposure notification project was released in May, one month after the announcement of the initiative.

I think you're forgetting that most employees started working from home at the end of March which requires a ton of work to figure out and getting used to. Then, combine that with two tech giants coming together (virtually) to figure out a common set of APIs for both platforms to have this system is a huge challenge itself.

What Apple and Google did in a short span time frame given the circumstances is extraordinary.
 
It’s frustrating that you both are so invested in your preferred narrative that you’re ignoring data that’s readily available. Again, please look at the CDC data I posted earlier about deaths above expected. If you think covid is not a big deal or death numbers are being artificially inflated then please give me the alternative explanation for why every week since March 2020 has such absurdly high deaths above expected.
There are unfortunately a lot of old, At risk people without a lot of underlying conditions.

Only 6% of deaths have only covid on the death cert.
 
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Well, when the headline of the campaign spreads that kind of disinformation, I think they need to be called out on it.
Doesn't seem like there's disinformation when an ultimate goal is stated as a call to action even it might take more to reach that goal.

If things are down to basically pedantic nitpicking of that nature, which is then somehow extrapolated to undermine essentially everything else, it seems like actual disinformation is getting quite a workout.
 
You're not understanding how many of us 100% distrust anything the government or big tech says. And when they're working together, then we really don't trust them.
If that gets in the way of doing what needs to be done, with real costs to it, that's quite unfortunate.
 
It’s frustrating that you both are so invested in your preferred narrative that you’re ignoring data that’s readily available. Again, please look at the CDC data I posted earlier about deaths above expected. If you think covid is not a big deal or death numbers are being artificially inflated then please give me the alternative explanation for why every week since March 2020 has such absurdly high deaths above expected.
since I have family working in various hospitals in LA, for many months now there were no covid patients and hospitals were on the empty side. The number has recently increased but not as crazy as they are making it out to be. The patients are mainly old people. Also many of the deaths were patients who had other issues like diabetes or something severe but it got labeled as a covid death regardless even if the patient was on their way out. The earlier tests were faulty and caused a lot of confusion. can't trust the rapid tests still. if every death is labeled as a covid death, what can you do? When you say that every week since march there were absurd deaths, this must be a joke because there weren't any covid patients in hospitals out here for months. I no longer watch the news so dont know what they are feeding you these days but I had enough of the manipulation. the news and the governor get to decide the truth while people in Florida get to live a normal life.
 
Show me where the 94% of deaths having 2.6 other conditions listed confirms covid is THE underlying cause and without it, those folks survive. Particularly the 60% of deaths that have nearly reached or lived beyond the average life expectancy.
Do you get why deaths above expected is a relevant statistic? It’s because it takes stuff like “what’s on the death certificate” out of it. In a typical year X die. Now it’s 1.25 X (or whatever). Preexisting conditions were as prevalent in 2019 as they are in 2020 yet deaths are way higher.

Now either that’s covid or it’s something else that’s different about 2020 compared to prior years. And if you say it’s something else, then what is that something else?
 
Do some research on what measures and lockdown were implemented in Melbourne, Australia, including contract tracing (not just state by state, but across the country) and read that in Melbourne we're now 37 days without any infections. Then look at what you wrote.
Do some research on how Australia is nothing like the US.
 
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Do some research on what measures and lockdown were implemented in Melbourne, Australia, including contract tracing (not just state by state, but across the country) and read that in Melbourne we're now 37 days without any infections. Then look at what you wrote.
You have to understand, many people in the US think we did everything we could. They think our initial lockdown was executed correctly (it wasn't); they look at our incompetent keystone cop approach and use it as proof against any further measures, like even wearing masks. (“It’s a hoax!”)

And they also have no idea that other countries have done so much better by taking basic straightforward steps. Frankly, they’ve probably never heard of Melbourne (or even Australia... or any countries outside of Europe). They’d probably call you a communist (I wish I was joking).

They don’t even care that so many people have died. Even their own friends and family catching covid won’t change their mind. Their cognitive dissonance will be studied for decades.


We’ve been completely deadlocked between two approaches (strict intervention vs. hands-off) for nine months, and the result is that we’re experiencing the worst of both with none of the benefits of either.
 
Do you get why deaths above expected is a relevant statistic? It’s because it takes stuff like “what’s on the death certificate” out of it. In a typical year X die. Now it’s 1.25 X (or whatever). Preexisting conditions were as prevalent in 2019 as they are in 2020 yet deaths are way higher.

Now either that’s covid or it’s something else that’s different about 2020 compared to prior years. And if you say it’s something else, then what is that something else?
I don’t know? I’d need to see a lot more than 2019 versus 2020 to make a conclusion though.

I do analytics for a living at a fortune 10 company, so data is not foreign to me. These numbers are not as easy to understand as throwing them up on cnn or Fox.

They need to be studied and interpreted correctly to draw meaningful conclusions. We’ve had people divide deaths by cases and apply that percentage death to all of America.
 
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since I have family working in various hospitals in LA, for many months now there were no covid patients and hospitals were on the empty side. The number has recently increased but not as crazy as they are making it out to be. The patients are mainly old people. Also many of the deaths were patients who had other issues like diabetes or something severe but it got labeled as a covid death regardless even if the patient was on their way out. The earlier tests were faulty and caused a lot of confusion. can't trust the rapid tests still. if every death is labeled as a covid death, what can you do? When you say that every week since march there were absurd deaths, this must be a joke because there weren't any covid patients in hospitals out here for months. I no longer watch the news so dont know what they are feeding you these days but I had enough of the manipulation. the news and the governor get to decide the truth while people in Florida get to live a normal life.
This is what I’m saying. No hospitals in my major (top 6) are “at their breaking point,” but you wouldn’t know that watching the news.

This is a sad situation, but most deaths are people over 75 with many other conditions.

Even CDC data shows the other conditions present and despite what some here say, it does NOT mean Covid alone killed the person. Also, reporting integrity is requested, but hospitals can be sloppy depending on the agenda.
 
You have to understand, many people in the US think we did everything we could. They think our initial lockdown was executed correctly (it wasn't); they look at our incompetent keystone cop approach and use it as proof against any further measures, like even wearing masks. (“It’s a hoax!”)

And they also have no idea that other countries have done so much better by taking basic straightforward steps. Frankly, they’ve probably never heard of Melbourne (or even Australia... or any countries outside of Europe). They’d probably call you a communist (I wish I was joking).

They don’t even care that so many people have died. Even their own friends and family catching covid won’t change their mind. Their cognitive dissonance will be studied for decades.


We’ve been completely deadlocked between two approaches (strict intervention vs. hands-off) for nine months, and the result is that we’re experiencing the worst of both with none of the benefits of either.
Sadly, you're right.
 
You have to understand, many people in the US think we did everything we could. They think our initial lockdown was executed correctly (it wasn't); they look at our incompetent keystone cop approach and use it as proof against any further measures, like even wearing masks. (“It’s a hoax!”)

And they also have no idea that other countries have done so much better by taking basic straightforward steps. Frankly, they’ve probably never heard of Melbourne (or even Australia... or any countries outside of Europe). They’d probably call you a communist (I wish I was joking).

They don’t even care that so many people have died. Even their own friends and family catching covid won’t change their mind. Their cognitive dissonance will be studied for decades.


We’ve been completely deadlocked between two approaches (strict intervention vs. hands-off) for nine months, and the result is that we’re experiencing the worst of both with none of the benefits of either.
Geography matters dude. You can’t just say Australia and the US are Apples to Apples. I’ve been to Australia and have seen a lot of people there acting just like Americans with Covid. There are 2 semi major cities in Australia and it’s a freaking island.

Europe is not doing “well” at all and I believe nothing that comes out of Asian countries, which I’ve also visited and love. Their media is not transparent, at all...and again, these countries are different geographically and culturally.

There are too many factors to simply compare numbers between countries.
 
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Fresh off of banning abilities to conduct business all across the state, and after California has forced citizens into house arrest, now they want to also track your location and human interactions.


Exactly! My rights do not end where everyones fear begins! It's getting ridiculous at this point. It's the Flu, it will pass and people need to calm the f*ck down with all the grand ideas on controlling everyone. If you're scared stay home, life must go on.
 
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