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clip (snap rivet) for Northbridge heat-sink on 2009 Mac Pro 2X2.26
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Increased IOH Heatsink temperature with PCIe SATA boards
Hi,
I have two ATTO Tech SAS H608 cards installed in my Mac Pro with eight Samsung 1TB SSD, four of each in the two CD ROM bays, and each configured as RAID 0 software raid.
http://www.attotech.com/products/product.php?scat=27&prod=9&sku=ESAS-H608-000
I noticed that the IOH and IOH heatsink temperature increases significantly (from 60C to 85C) when I add ATTO Tech SATA cards for software RAID over four SSDs, especially when in heavy use, causing system freezes and instabilities. When I increase the fan speeds (exhaust fan) the system instabilities go away.
Has anyone noticed this? Does this makes even sense.
By the way, I have reseated my IOH Heatsink using simple Nylon screws and bolts on the bottom. Because they are nylon, they are sufficiently flexible to create a soft tension without too much pressure on the chip.
Thank You!
Hi,
I have two ATTO Tech SAS H608 cards installed in my Mac Pro with eight Samsung 1TB SSD, four of each in the two CD ROM bays, and each configured as RAID 0 software raid.
http://www.attotech.com/products/product.php?scat=27&prod=9&sku=ESAS-H608-000
I noticed that the IOH and IOH heatsink temperature increases significantly (from 60C to 85C) when I add ATTO Tech SATA cards for software RAID over four SSDs, especially when in heavy use, causing system freezes and instabilities. When I increase the fan speeds (exhaust fan) the system instabilities go away.
Has anyone noticed this? Does this makes even sense.
By the way, I have reseated my IOH Heatsink using simple Nylon screws and bolts on the bottom. Because they are nylon, they are sufficiently flexible to create a soft tension without too much pressure on the chip.
Thank You!
Just as a general update to this subject i noticed that 2 of my 6 mac pros also had a broken clip. i just decided to remove both clips and just used some arctic silver epoxy to affix the heatsinks back down on top of the IOH chip, lower temps all round now, and far easier than try to find the correct clips.
takes a few hours to cure but it really wasn't difficult.
takes a few hours to cure but it really wasn't difficult.
Mine just broke by itself 2days ago cause my machine to freeze and i notice it from i-stat that my IOH T-diode temp was stay at 128'C.
I remove 2 of the pin form an only PC mono and replace the pin and hit another problem.
My Booster B fan was spinning at Max speed and i notice i-status shoe Booster B 0RPM i guess while i remove the heatsink it might had either damage the fan sensor or broken wire. damn.. ! i've hunt for a replacement CPU-B heatsink and notice the heatsink was at USD380 at Applecomponent.
Any guru might be able to help here be nice.
I remove 2 of the pin form an only PC mono and replace the pin and hit another problem.
My Booster B fan was spinning at Max speed and i notice i-status shoe Booster B 0RPM i guess while i remove the heatsink it might had either damage the fan sensor or broken wire. damn.. ! i've hunt for a replacement CPU-B heatsink and notice the heatsink was at USD380 at Applecomponent.
Any guru might be able to help here be nice.
Last edited:
Thank you!
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1755982/
EBayb source for northbridge spring rivets:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-PC-Heat...astener-Push-Pin-Mounting-Screw-/121074044779
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1755982/
EBayb source for northbridge spring rivets:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-PC-Heat...astener-Push-Pin-Mounting-Screw-/121074044779
Here is a scan of the plug clips from the Zalman ZM-NBF47 cooler.
I ordered the cooler and a pack of thermal pads to hopefully be ready for
the problem if it ever happens.
I can't tell if it's right. The ruler comparisons confuse me.
So did this clip work for you?
Do you know of updated model heatsink that comes with this clip?
Sorry to reply to this old thread, but what temps were you seeing after you used that thermal adhesive? I'm looking at this as an alternative to rivets.
Using TG PRO I have it rigged to have fans at 10% boost always. (I'm thinking maybe this will lenghten the life of thies cMP 4,1).
Northbridge Core 63*C 142*F
Northbridge Heatsink 53*C 124*F
I used new paste from Frys (or Micro Center) and used rivets from a northbridge from a old PC motherboard I had.
Prior to this I was seeing 109*C while fans were at full blast (manually via TG PRO)
Northbridge Core 63*C 142*F
Northbridge Heatsink 53*C 124*F
I used new paste from Frys (or Micro Center) and used rivets from a northbridge from a old PC motherboard I had.
Prior to this I was seeing 109*C while fans were at full blast (manually via TG PRO)
Ah - yeah, I was considering the thermal adhesive; however, I found a thread where the OP had success using those typical rivets from China (on eBay), so I ordered some and am awaiting their arrival.
I just want to chime in with how we fix it on the tech team that I'm on. Zip ties. These break all the time.
Get two small zipties, put one down through the board so the lock end of the ziptie is on the top of the board. Put another zip through the first. and it get as tight as you can. Then clip both of the ends. So you have the locks of two zipties on each side of the board.
it won't be perfect, but it works just fine and we have many that have this fix and continue to run for years after.
Those spring rivets are an embarrassment to apple. I do not know for the life of me why they use them. Garbage.
But, if you have a lot of machines running 24/7 or for long hours at high load, you'll see this in 15-20% of your machines. That's been my experience so far. All the mac pros have this problem. I haven't used the trashcan one yet.
Get two small zipties, put one down through the board so the lock end of the ziptie is on the top of the board. Put another zip through the first. and it get as tight as you can. Then clip both of the ends. So you have the locks of two zipties on each side of the board.
it won't be perfect, but it works just fine and we have many that have this fix and continue to run for years after.
Those spring rivets are an embarrassment to apple. I do not know for the life of me why they use them. Garbage.
But, if you have a lot of machines running 24/7 or for long hours at high load, you'll see this in 15-20% of your machines. That's been my experience so far. All the mac pros have this problem. I haven't used the trashcan one yet.
UPDATE WITH WORKING SOLUTION: (Credit to this guy for the solution: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-heatsink-northbridge-rivet-loud-fan.1755982/)
Sorry that I never put out an update here! Near the end of November, I ended up ordering typical Chinese rivets from eBay (which you get by searching heat sink pins/rivets - they're opaque white-ish), since someone in another thread posted their success story with such rivets. This ended up being a huge relief, because I didn't have to go out and buy a kit just for its two little rivets; the Chinese ones worked! I'm on my 2009 Mac Pro right now, and it has been running strong - even after a 32GB upgrade where all slots are filled. Both rivets snapped in and stayed in without any problems.
NOTE: I did have to modify the rivet that sits underneath one of the CPU heat sinks. These Chinese rivets were a bit tall, so I had to take a Dremel and just shave that rivet down a bit; it was no big deal at all. Anyone with a knife or Dremel could easily do it. I started with the top of the peg itself, and then I also shaved down the cylindrical piece that's wrapped around the spring itself. I sort of, uh, circumcised it...? I guess you could say that. I simply cut around the cylindrical piece so that it would end up being equal with the new size of the peg itself. If not, the cylindrical part would have poked up past the peg itself and hindered the CPU heat sink from screwing down properly. So, remember, if you do this, to shave down the size of the peg AND the cylindrical piece that's around the spring.
Other than that, I had zero issues, and I was surprised that the springs worked, in spite of their very dissimilar shape to the Apple ones. I highly recommend going with this solution, as my temps and such are all back to normal, and the machine (obviously) works fine again. Just put new thermal paste on everything before you put it all back together (I did my CPUs too), and you're good to go! I believe I used my leftover Gelid thermal paste. Get high-end. Do NOT cheap out. In total, I spent about $10 fixing the machine (bought some Arctic but didn't need it in the end). That's cheap to begin with.
Sorry that I never put out an update here! Near the end of November, I ended up ordering typical Chinese rivets from eBay (which you get by searching heat sink pins/rivets - they're opaque white-ish), since someone in another thread posted their success story with such rivets. This ended up being a huge relief, because I didn't have to go out and buy a kit just for its two little rivets; the Chinese ones worked! I'm on my 2009 Mac Pro right now, and it has been running strong - even after a 32GB upgrade where all slots are filled. Both rivets snapped in and stayed in without any problems.
NOTE: I did have to modify the rivet that sits underneath one of the CPU heat sinks. These Chinese rivets were a bit tall, so I had to take a Dremel and just shave that rivet down a bit; it was no big deal at all. Anyone with a knife or Dremel could easily do it. I started with the top of the peg itself, and then I also shaved down the cylindrical piece that's wrapped around the spring itself. I sort of, uh, circumcised it...? I guess you could say that. I simply cut around the cylindrical piece so that it would end up being equal with the new size of the peg itself. If not, the cylindrical part would have poked up past the peg itself and hindered the CPU heat sink from screwing down properly. So, remember, if you do this, to shave down the size of the peg AND the cylindrical piece that's around the spring.
Other than that, I had zero issues, and I was surprised that the springs worked, in spite of their very dissimilar shape to the Apple ones. I highly recommend going with this solution, as my temps and such are all back to normal, and the machine (obviously) works fine again. Just put new thermal paste on everything before you put it all back together (I did my CPUs too), and you're good to go! I believe I used my leftover Gelid thermal paste. Get high-end. Do NOT cheap out. In total, I spent about $10 fixing the machine (bought some Arctic but didn't need it in the end). That's cheap to begin with.
Fortunately, I don't have such problem yet. However, if possible, do you mind to share a photo of that? Is there any caution to use zip ties? (e.g. If apply it in the wrong direction, then the CPU heatsink can't mount properly etc.)
Thanks of sharing your success PowerMacG4! I had a hunch the trimming approach would work and have some of the aforementioned Chinese spring rivets on hand for the day I need 'em.
If I were you, I would go with the route I took, for which I credit the guy whose thread I have linked. He made a thread (with pictures) detailing his success w/ typical Chinese rivets. I can confirm that it works, but the rivet sitting underneath the CPU A heatsink (at least, on my 8-core model) must be shave down/cut to size so that it can fit.
I bought these rivets and mine were way too big.
I ended up using rivets from an old motherboard heatsink, so far it has been running this way for several months.
I ended up using rivets from an old motherboard heatsink, so far it has been running this way for several months.
No problem! I wanted to be of help, since I've done it myself and since there is quite of a bit of 'controversy' and indecision surrounding this topic. Bottom line: Chinese snap rivets (or perhaps those from some kit that apparently work without needed to be edited) are the way to go. I don't see why anyone would try thermal adhesive or screws, unless they don't know that one can buy 10 Chinese rivets for, like, $2.50 and have them snap in just fine.
Good luck to you if/when you perform this procedure! Don't forget to be careful when screwing back in the CPU heat sink/s. If you screw them in too tightly, they can crush the CPUs; however, too loosely and you may see only partial RAM detection, or even a failure to boot. I think each screw requires, like, about 5 turns before in all the way. Just loosely turn until you can't any further - don't force anything.
It's all straightforward, but I'll link you to this video I made, in which I explain what I did and proves that the Mac Pro works fine/shows temperatures: ______________.
(If the above link isn't there when you go to check this, it's because I'm at school and cannot view YouTube on school machines. I'll be posting later at home.)
[doublepost=1455136853][/doublepost]
You bought the Chinese rivets? Hmm... maybe I should link the seller from whom mine were purchased, as mine fit just fine. Perhaps yours happened to be a larger size, in which case I'll be looking at my purchase history and seeing if the size was noted in the description.
Good of you to tell me, because this means that other sizes are floating around out there and could perhaps render my instructions useless to those who get the incorrect rivets.
Do you happen to know the length and dimensions of the bolt you used?
Mine just broke by itself 2days ago cause my machine to freeze and i notice it from i-stat that my IOH T-diode temp was stay at 128'C.
I remove 2 of the pin form an only PC mono and replace the pin and hit another problem.
My Booster B fan was spinning at Max speed and i notice i-status shoe Booster B 0RPM i guess while i remove the heatsink it might had either damage the fan sensor or broken wire. damn.. ! i've hunt for a replacement CPU-B heatsink and notice the heatsink was at USD380 at Applecomponent.
4-20 by 1/2 inch bolt and nut
I just did it and used a spring from a ball point pen that I cut in half. Works great. Leave a little bit of spring when you push down to allow heat expansion
If you were ever wondering what is the performance between a Mac Pro 2009 with dual 2.26Ghz processors versus a single processor X5690 3.46Ghz, and dual processor X5690 3.46Ghz, here are the geek bench numbers.
2009 Mac Pro E5520 8 Core with 48GB RAM (4,1 to 5,1)
Single-core 2,083
Multi-core 10,705
2009 Mac Pro X5690 6 Core with 48GB RAM (4,1 to 5,1)
Single-core 3,113
Multi-core 13,645
Upgrading to Dual CPU
2009 Mac Pro X5690 12 Core with 48GB RAM (4,1 to 5,1)
Single-core 2,937
Multi-core 18,402
These are the real scores of my system. The ratios can vary depending on how many background apps and such. I am using 3qty OWC 16GB Dimms for RAM and booting from OWC PCI storage.
# Name Platform Architecture Single-core Score Multi-core Score
2741773 MacPro5,1Intel Xeon X5690 3460 MHz (12 cores) Mac OS X 64 x86_64 2937 18402
2729627 MacPro5,1Intel Xeon X5690 3460 MHz (6 cores) Mac OS X 64 x86_64 3113 13634
2723427 MacPro5,1Intel Xeon E5520 2260 MHz (8 cores) Mac OS X 64 x86_64 2083 10705
The multi core score is very hard to understand in GB4 (non linear). GB3 is a better tool to compare raw power.
# Name Platform Single-core Score Multi-core Score from Geekbench 3
8346014 MacPro5,1Intel Xeon X5690 3460 MHz (12 cores) Mac OS X 32-bit 2579 27397
# Name Platform Single-core Score Multi-core Score from Geekbench 4
2741773 MacPro5,1Intel Xeon X5690 3460 MHz (12 cores) Mac OS X 64 x86_64 2937 18402
8346014 MacPro5,1Intel Xeon X5690 3460 MHz (12 cores) Mac OS X 32-bit 2579 27397
# Name Platform Single-core Score Multi-core Score from Geekbench 4
2741773 MacPro5,1Intel Xeon X5690 3460 MHz (12 cores) Mac OS X 64 x86_64 2937 18402
I'd suggest new plastic snap rivets over anything else. Chinese seller shave them on eBay. I'll measure one later so I can give exactly dimensions. These worked fine in my Mac Pro. The only thing I had to do was shave the top nub off one of them so that it would fit underneath that part of one of the CPU heatsinks which covers half of the Northbridge heatsink, on my dual-socket 4,1.
EDIT: the eBay link above shows the correct rivets. They really work. Shaving the nub off one isn't a big deal either; use a power tool or an Xacto knife. Also make sure to cut off the cylindrical piece that surrounds the spring. Once the spring is depressed, that housing will be pushed upwards and surpass the height of the nub. You don't want that, because that defeats the purpose of having shaved the nub down. At least, from what I can tell, I needed to do that. Or, perhaps, it was just precautionary step. I didn't ever check to see if the housing would actually surpass the nub's shorter height.
EDIT: the eBay link above shows the correct rivets. They really work. Shaving the nub off one isn't a big deal either; use a power tool or an Xacto knife. Also make sure to cut off the cylindrical piece that surrounds the spring. Once the spring is depressed, that housing will be pushed upwards and surpass the height of the nub. You don't want that, because that defeats the purpose of having shaved the nub down. At least, from what I can tell, I needed to do that. Or, perhaps, it was just precautionary step. I didn't ever check to see if the housing would actually surpass the nub's shorter height.