Compared to the rest of the market, the iPhone isn't a top 10 smartphone.

[animalx]

I haven't got a clue what half those phones are so I really couldn't tell you. I said a few pages back that I couldn't name 10 smart phones but would list the popular flagship devices sold here including the iPhone. The OS comes before spec for me so it's easy to make a very short list lol.

I understand where you're coming from. The thing I'm trying to say is, if you are saying you'd put the iPhone on the list (in the top 10), then that would mean it would have to replace something that is on the list. I too agree the OS comes before specs as well. I'm not a fan of iOS, as I find it to be a very limited and handicapped operating system. They made some good strides with iOS 8, but still have a ways to go (for example, a capable browser, and an email client that can properly handle attachments).

How exactly is the S5 @ the #5 spot when 3 Samsung executives lost or almost lost their jobs due to poor sales of that phone? Give me a break. You can get that phone for .01 or FREE with most carriers and it's Samsung's "next best thing" thus far (excluding the note series which are phablets).

I'm guessing you overlooked the part that said "in no particular order"...

I own a LG G3 as a disclaimer. I also own an iPhone 6 plus. I love all smart phones.

The iPhone 6/6 plus may not be the top choice for everyone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But the Op is smoking crack by saying iPhone 6/6plus isn't in top 10.

Just google top smartphones of 2014. Almost all big websites rank the iPhone 6/6plus in the top 5. Many in the top 1-3 slot.

With you having said that, my question to would be, what phone would the iPhone replace on the list?

My opinion: the iPhone 6 is not the best smartphone on the market. Saying it's not in the top 10, you either know nothing about technology or dislike Apple. Sort of difficult to have relevant discussions with people like that.

Simply cause times are changing. The iPhone is automatically secured in the top spot or even the top 10 spot nowadays. Of course it's all just a preference of opinion, but several years ago you couldn't make a legitimate list without including the iPhone. That's no so today.

Being that said, I think it was the OP's intention to show the contrast of yesterday vs today.

You hit the nail on the head. I think my list shows that with Apple having been stagnant for so long, they no longer have a top smartphone. Sure it still sells, yes, however I think you can legitimately argue that any of those phones on that list are better than it. Times have most definitely changed. To those that would say they think the iPhone should be on the list, I'd ask what phone they'd remove in order to place it there.

 

[jrswizzle]

You hit the nail on the head. I think my list shows that with Apple having been stagnant for so long, they no longer have a top smartphone. Sure it still sells, yes, however I think you can legitimately argue that any of those phones on that list are better than it. Times have most definitely changed. To those that would say they think the iPhone should be on the list, I'd ask what phone they'd remove in order to place it there.

The first part of the bolded is directly contradictory to the second part.

The only way to measure, OBJECTIVELY across a large group of people, whether a device is "top 10" or one of the best out there is by sales numbers.

Different people will value different things. To say the iPhone isn't top 10 is ludicrous because not everyone has the same criteria as you do. I think the iPhone 6+ is the best smartphone out there. That's because I value the OS over all and I much prefer iOS.

What sales numbers tell you is, generally speaking, more people find the iPhone to be acceptable/the best option (for a variety of reasons that differ from person to person) than other competing devices.

Apple is going to set records this quarter - mark my words. The 6 and 6+ will go down as the most popular/sold smartphones of all time. I'm not sure how else one can objectively measure "top 10". If the demand for these devices indicates stagnation, I think Apple wishes they had "stagnated" a long time ago.

 

[mercuryjones]

I understand where you're coming from. The thing I'm trying to say is, if you are saying you'd put the iPhone on the list (in the top 10), then that would mean it would have to replace something that is on the list. I too agree the OS comes before specs as well. I'm not a fan of iOS, as I find it to be a very limited and handicapped operating system. They made some good strides with iOS 8, but still have a ways to go (for example, a capable browser, and an email client that can properly handle attachments).



I'm guessing you overlooked the part that said "in no particular order"...



With you having said that, my question to would be, what phone would the iPhone replace on the list?




You hit the nail on the head. I think my list shows that with Apple having been stagnant for so long, they no longer have a top smartphone. Sure it still sells, yes, however I think you can legitimately argue that any of those phones on that list are better than it. Times have most definitely changed. To those that would say they think the iPhone should be on the list, I'd ask what phone they'd remove in order to place it there.

What your list shows is that you like Android. Nothing more than that. It's your opinion.

 

[Rogifan]

Yes...... Why did you leave out the post was in the Alternative section? Did you do that on purpose?
If the post had been in the IPHONE section you might be right. But it wasn't......

I don't care what section it's in, the site is called MacRumors. So yeah if someone comes here and starts a thread saying iPhone isn't a top 10 smartphone it rightfully deserves to be called flamebait. Heck considering how well the iPhone 6 is selling (and the generally positive reviews it's received) you could call that flamebait wherever it was posted.

----------

They are not known for being neither Apple fans nor Android fans at all
Not everyone agrees with this list including me but it sounds fair enough

----------


Its not.
When the first iPhone came out, there was barely nothing as credible alternative
When iPhone 4/4S came out, Galaxy S2 was the only one really good alternative although in my opinion it was far from away from i4 qualities overall
When iPhone 5/5S, concurrence brought on table, many serious alternatives like Galaxy S, Note, LG G2, Xperia, HTC One, Nexus...
They are all very close but 5S still remains as the king
Now, iPhone 6 came out, it has nothing more than its rivals
They all have some benefit features
Note 4 has the best display overall...
Xperia has waterproof...
I didn't even mention battery life like twice better for all those Android devices.

Again, this is YOUR opinion. Obviously the writer of that WSJ piece (I believe it was Joanna Stern) thinks differently. Like I said there is no objective way to say what is best. People need to stop conflating their opinion as objective fact.

----------

Obviously it's subjective. For the first four websites to put it in top ten then OP go out of his way to mention it's not just shows he's trying to get a rise out of the users on here.

Exactly. There is no objective measure of what the "best" is. It's all subjective, all personal opinion.

EDIT: based on comments from a previous poster, there is one objective way and that is via sales figures. But since most companies don't release sales figures that is something difficult to measure.

 

[jamezr]

I don't care what section it's in, the site is called MacRumors. So yeah if someone comes here and starts a thread saying iPhone isn't a top 10 smartphone it rightfully deserves to be called flamebait. Heck considering how well the iPhone 6 is selling (and the generally positive reviews it's received) you could call that flamebait wherever it was posted.

----------


Again, this is YOUR opinion. Obviously the writer of that WSJ piece (I believe it was Joanna Stern) thinks differently. Like I said there is no objective way to say what is best. People need to stop conflating their opinion as objective fact.

----------



Exactly. There is no objective measure of what the "best" is. It's all subjective, all personal opinion.

EDIT: based on comments from a previous poster, there is one objective way and that is via sales figures. But since most companies don't release sales figures that is something difficult to measure.

Then take it up the admins and moderators. Because that is specifically why the Alternative is here. Maybe you should read the stickies at the top of the forum.?

 

[mercuryjones]

Then take it up the admins and moderators. Because that is specifically why the Alternative is here. Maybe you should read the stickies at the top of the forum.?

So, alternative is the place to go to just pat each other on the back about your choice and cheer about the iPhone not being a top 10 phone anymore? No need for an actual debate about it, right?
Sorry, but if I were to go onto an Android website and do the exact same thing, I'd know exactly what I was getting into and why I was doing it. Hint: it wouldn't be to gain the admiration of my fellow Apple users on that site in the alternative section.

 

[jamezr]

So, alternative is the place to go to just pat each other on the back about your choice and cheer about the iPhone not being a top 10 phone anymore? No need for an actual debate about it, right?
Sorry, but if I were to go onto an Android website and do the exact same thing, I'd know exactly what I was getting into and why I was doing it. Hint: it wouldn't be to gain the admiration of my fellow Apple users on that site in the alternative section.

Did you read and follow the thread and topic and context?
The OP posted his top ten based on his opinion. The top ten did not contain the iPhone. So where would he post that information except in the ALTERNATIVE section
His top ten were ANDROID phones.

The "Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices" forum is for discussion of non-Apple smartphones and tablets and their operating systems, as well as comparisons with Apple products.

After following the discussion in Site and Forums Feedback and weighing the pros and cons, we've created the forum to meet the growing traffic in the iPhone forum, and the growing interest in discussing the competition. We've included iPad competitors here as well, for the sake of consistency.

There will of course be situations where a comment is made about another device or system in an iPhone or iPad discussion in the the forums for those devices. That's perfectly fine, as long as the comment is organic in context, and the over-all focus and purpose of the thread clearly is and remains the iPhone/iPad. Threads that don't meet these criteria may be moved to this new forum or deleted by the moderators.

 

[lowendlinux]

I don't care what section it's in, the site is called MacRumors. So yeah if someone comes here and starts a thread saying iPhone isn't a top 10 smartphone it rightfully deserves to be called flamebait. Heck considering how well the iPhone 6 is selling (and the generally positive reviews it's received) you could call that flamebait wherever it was posted.

----------


Again, this is YOUR opinion. Obviously the writer of that WSJ piece (I believe it was Joanna Stern) thinks differently. Like I said there is no objective way to say what is best. People need to stop conflating their opinion as objective fact.

----------



Exactly. There is no objective measure of what the "best" is. It's all subjective, all personal opinion.

EDIT: based on comments from a previous poster, there is one objective way and that is via sales figures. But since most companies don't release sales figures that is something difficult to measure.

So if we're going to get into a semantical debate about a subjective list then you're right this site is called Macrumors meaning it's about the Mac not iPhone/iPad/iPod which are not Macs.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

So if we're going to get into a semantical debate about a subjective list then you're right this site is called Macrumors meaning it's about the Mac not iPhone/iPad/iPod which are not Macs.

You have won the semantical debate.

 

[bkends35]

OP, why did you make a thread a few months ago saying how bad the GS5 was and how it lags and such yet you still count it as a top ten smartphone?

Hmmm...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1727181/

 

[MRU]

OP, why did you make a thread a few months ago saying how bad the GS5 was and how it lags and such yet you still count it as a top ten smartphone?



Hmmm...



https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1727181/

Lol... Busted

 

[I7guy]

Lol... Busted

Sounds like the iphone 6 is on a good position to replace the gs5.

 

[Truefan31]

I think even if you're an android fan you'd replace the 6 plus or 6 with the note edge.

The oneplus one seems like a great value. Running cyanogen os is cool. I'd prefer it over touch wiz

 

[animalx]

The first part of the bolded is directly contradictory to the second part.

The only way to measure, OBJECTIVELY across a large group of people, whether a device is "top 10" or one of the best out there is by sales numbers.

No, that's the way to effectively measure the effectiveness of marketing or price (in the case of the iPhone, it's marketing). With your logic, a toyota corolla is a better vehicle than an Audi A8, because the corolla sells more.... See the flaw in that logic? $5-$10 bottles of wine sell more than the $200 bottles, but that doesn't mean it's a better product.

----------

What your list shows is that you like Android. Nothing more than that. It's your opinion.

...or that I find iOS does not measure up to Android.. As I've asked others who have replied, if one disagrees with it, what phone on the list would they replace with the iPhone?

 

[bkends35]

No, that's the way to effectively measure the effectiveness of marketing or price (in the case of the iPhone, it's marketing). With your logic, a toyota corolla is a better vehicle than an Audi A8, because the corolla sells more.... See the flaw in that logic? $5-$10 bottles of wine sell more than the $200 bottles, but that doesn't mean it's a better product.

----------



...or that I find iOS does not measure up to Android.. As I've asked others who have replied, if one disagrees with it, what phone on the list would they replace with the iPhone?

It's not the same with phones as your wine comparison. We don't have phones that cost $14,000, or as big of a gap as the wine comparison percentage wise. Most phones are $400-$800 so comparing off sales numbers is feasible. Now I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's a good way to determine the best phones but it certainly determines which phones people desire the most. And to counter you point about apple's marketing, I disagree. I actually see just as many, if not more, commercials from samsung bashing the iPhone and how 'bad' it is yet consumers still buy it like no other.

 

[animalx]

OP, why did you make a thread a few months ago saying how bad the GS5 was and how it lags and such yet you still count it as a top ten smartphone?

Hmmm...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1727181/

Simple answer, because despite my reasons for not caring for the GS5, I STILL think it's a better phone than the iPhone.

On the post you quoted, I stated "Most of the issues I had with the GS5 were small things". At the time, coming from the G Flex, the GS5 felt like a compromise. But when it comes to the iPhone, I feel it's an even larger compromise. A perfect example of an even larger compromise would be the fact that with an iPhone I lose important functionality that I need in my every day dealings. On an iPhone, I can't pull down my documents in the field, edit them and upload them back up on the vendor's web forms. With the iPhone, I can't attach pictures, xls spreadsheet, and pdf to the same email, and send it in to the vendors. Those two things are ridiculous limitations to have, but yet they are there, and would limit my productivity. Those are just a couple of examples of why I think the iPhone would be an even larger compromise.

----------

It's not the same with phones as your wine comparison. We don't have phones that cost $14,000, or as big of a gap as the wine comparison percentage wise. Most phones are $400-$800 so comparing off sales numbers is feasible. Now I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's a good way to determine the best phones but it certainly determines which phones people desire the most. And to counter you point about apple's marketing, I disagree. I actually see just as many, if not more, commercials from samsung bashing the iPhone and how 'bad' it is yet consumers still buy it like no other.

Apple already had a head start on the marketing, and had already become entrenched in the market as a household name. Marketing matters, as it directly impacts sales. Sales however, is not necessarily an indication of a product being better than another. The One Plus One, is one of the best phones out, yet their sales numbers pale in comparison to even a Sony phone. Why? Because the average person has never heard of it, and never seen any marketing for it.

 

[I7guy]

No, that's the way to effectively measure the effectiveness of marketing or price (in the case of the iPhone, it's marketing). With your logic, a toyota corolla is a better vehicle than an Audi A8, because the corolla sells more.... See the flaw in that logic? $5-$10 bottles of wine sell more than the $200 bottles, but that doesn't mean it's a better product.

----------



...or that I find iOS does not measure up to Android.. As I've asked others who have replied, if one disagrees with it, what phone on the list would they replace with the iPhone?

The comparison is illogical. The A8 is a luxury automobile; might as well measure it against a Bugatti. Measure the corolla against a civic; camry against an accord, bmw against infiniti.

The iphone doesn't cost very much more than android flagships and yet sell oodles more than any one manufacturer. You can try to say it's all marketing, but only a very few really believe that folderol. Or else apple has duped everyone who bought its products(500 million), except the 5 people in this thread. There is something to be said for the choice to buy a known quantity. You can't get away from the fact, the successful products and brands are a household name. And there are advantages to buying products that have been shown to be successful in the marketplace.

 

[Kariya]

With the iPhone, I can't attach pictures, xls spreadsheet, and pdf to the same email, and send it in to the vendors.

May not be as straight forward as it is on Android. But its doable. If you have iWork (and/or probably Office installed)

Edit what you want from within the app then send a copy by email. Email app opens up and you can insert photos or videos too.

But what do i know. I'm sure theres some esoteric stuff not covered.

 

[animalx]

The comparison is illogical. The A8 is a luxury automobile; might as well measure it against a Bugatti. Measure the corolla against a civic; camry against an accord, bmw against infiniti.

The iphone doesn't cost very much more than android flagships and yet sell oodles more than any one manufacturer. You can try to say it's all marketing, but only a very few really believe that folderol. Or else apple has duped everyone who bought its products(500 million), except the 5 people in this thread. There is something to be said for the choice to buy a known quantity. You can't get away from the fact, the successful products and brands are a household name. And there are advantages to buying products that have been shown to be successful in the marketplace.

When the G3 was released, it was a better phone than the Galaxy S5, yet the GS5 sold more due to marketing. The average person didn't even know what the G3 was, when it came out (and many people still don't). Samsung marketed their GS5 much better than LG did their G3, and the sales followed that pattern. That however, did not mean the GS5 was a better phone.

 

[animalx]

May not be as straight forward as it is on Android. But its doable. If you have iWork (and/or probably Office installed)

Edit what you want from within the app then send a copy by email. Email app opens up and you can insert photos or videos too.

But what do i know. I'm sure theres some esoteric stuff not covered.

Ok, so show a screenshot with the things I mentioned.... Also, the fact that you even had to sit there and try to come up with a workaround, just to send a simple email speaks volumes. In the meantime, I'd love to see how you would go about attaching the files I previously stated.
For your reference, with the Android OS, I simply open my email client, tap attach, and proceed to attach the files I'd like to include in the email. Simple as that (see attachment for an example).

 

[gadgetgirl85]

I wouldn't have the iPhone 6/6+ at the top for sure but I think it would be in the top 10.

 

[bkends35]

For your reference, with the Android OS, I simply open my email client, tap attach, and proceed to attach the files I'd like to include in the email. Simple as that (see attachment for an example).

I used an android device as my only phone for over two years and I never once used this functionality other than to check it out. I never use my phone to do business related things like you mentioned (uploading to vendors website or whatever you said) because I find it much easier to do something like this on my computer which is always with me. I use my phone as a communication device, not as a computer. I'm sure 98% of smartphone users can attest to this statement too, and for us, the iPhone is simply a better phone. Sure, I send a decent amount of emails on my phone but never do I need to attach a zip file or anything or that nature. Your normal smartphone user doesn't do most of the things you mentioned that are so great about android. Literally, the only five things I do on my phone on a daily basis are iMessage people, occasionally make a phone call, check/send emails, browse the internet/check the stock market and sometimes check social media. That's it. I don't know of anyone who uses their phone as a computer like you do. And for you, android is obviously you're best choice. I don't think you should come shove down other people's throats that android is so much better just because you use your phone as a computer when 98% (probably more) use their phones as a communication device where the iPhone offers a much better user experience.

 

[animalx]

I used an android device as my only phone for over two years and I never once used this functionality other than to check it out. I never use my phone to do business related things like you mentioned (uploading to vendors website or whatever you said) because I find it much easier to do something like this on my computer which is always with me. I use my phone as a communication device, not as a computer. I'm sure 98% of smartphone users can attest to this statement too, and for us, the iPhone is simply a better phone. Sure, I send a decent amount of emails on my phone but never do I need to attach a zip file or anything or that nature. Your normal smartphone user doesn't do most of the things you mentioned that are so great about android. Literally, the only five things I do on my phone on a daily basis are iMessage people, occasionally make a phone call, check/send emails, browse the internet/check the stock market and sometimes check social media. That's it. I don't know of anyone who uses their phone as a computer like you do. And for you, android is obviously you're best choice. I don't think you should come shove down other people's throats that android is so much better just because you use your phone as a computer when 98% (probably more) use their phones as a communication device where the iPhone offers a much better user experience.

For me, it's much easier to not have to pull out a laptop when I'm in the field, and instead just pull my phone out and be done with it. That said, I understand the majority of people don't use their phone that way. This is why I said, I think the iPhone is too much of a compromise FOR ME. That being said, there are other reasons as well.

Going with the theme of using the phone as a communication device, I find the iOS dialer to be very archaic. It's about as basic as you can get. On the other hand, with my phone, it has smart dialing capability, it automatically prioritizes the order of my speed dial page (based on who I contact most), and I can use the dialer to call businesses I don't have the number to. In addition to that, it will tell me the names of callers and businesses that are not already in my contacts. As a phone, I find it to be much better in that aspect.

Another element of communication that I find to be invaluable is, Google Voice integration. I can make calls from my main number or my Google Voice number seamlessly, in the dialer. This is extremely useful when I need to communicate with someone that I don't want to have my personal number (ie business situations). I don't have to use a different app to make calls when I want to use the Google Voice number, as I am able to use the exact same dialer.

With that said, I find iOS to be lacking somewhat in the communication department as well.

 

[animalx]

A situation came up two days ago, where because I had an Android phone, I was able to help a friend of mine whereas if I were using an iPhone, I would not have. While I was at her house, she was in need of a Windows 7 image so she could reinstall it on her laptop. Her home internet is horribly slow, so it would have literally taken several hours to download the 3.8gb Windows image from Microsoft. Since I have unlimited internet on my phone, I downloaded the image straight to my phone. From there, I just connected to her computer and copied the image file over to the thumb drive that was attached to her computer. With that, I was able to complete the OS installation for her. Had I been using an iPhone, I would not have been able to do that, and she'd just have been stuck.
Granted, this type of scenario doesn't come up often, but it's definitely nice to have a device that's capable of handling that type of situation when it does come up. After all, a smartphone SHOULD have smart capabilities (in my opinion).

 

[I7guy]

For me, it's much easier to not have to pull out a laptop when I'm in the field, and instead just pull my phone out and be done with it. That said, I understand the majority of people don't use their phone that way. This is why I said, I think the iPhone is too much of a compromise FOR ME. That being said, there are other reasons as well.

Going with the theme of using the phone as a communication device, I find the iOS dialer to be very archaic. It's about as basic as you can get. On the other hand, with my phone, it has smart dialing capability, it automatically prioritizes the order of my speed dial page (based on who I contact most), and I can use the dialer to call businesses I don't have the number to. In addition to that, it will tell me the names of callers and businesses that are not already in my contacts. As a phone, I find it to be much better in that aspect.

Another element of communication that I find to be invaluable is, Google Voice integration. I can make calls from my main number or my Google Voice number seamlessly, in the dialer. This is extremely useful when I need to communicate with someone that I don't want to have my personal number (ie business situations). I don't have to use a different app to make calls when I want to use the Google Voice number, as I am able to use the exact same dialer.

With that said, I find iOS to be lacking somewhat in the communication department as well.

What you find lacking, I find easy to use. My 5s is perfect for me for what I need it for. And that's the whole thing in a nutshell, a quad core, 3gb phone does not make it a better tool for me. Simplicity is the key, less choices is the key for me. What you describe is more than what I need my phone to do.

The kicker is that I can unlock my phone as I take it out of my pocket.